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Modulus Arms 80% Lower Jig Review (photo heavy) (Page 3 of 4)
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Originally Posted By backbencher:
Was there more than 50% of the channel left? Does it still hold the spring and detent? Originally Posted By backbencher:
Originally Posted By icrpdmeself: he is talking about the rear safety selector spring. My second lower out of the jig slightly broke through also. I follow the directions to a tee.
I figured the cheap lower I bought might have been out of spec though.  Was there more than 50% of the channel left? Does it still hold the spring and detent? Yeah, it just barely broke through. Not anything to really worry about. I'll just be super careful next time. |
I swear to God I'm going to pistol whip the next guy who says, " Shenanigans."
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i recently finished my first 80% lower. the lower is a New Frontier Armory blem. it was easier to complete then i thought. i had two goofs... the first, my drill stop moved when drilling the rear pocket and my safety is really tight and my trigger assembly won't move. i must not have milled everything out back there. but everything seems to work ok.
finished. notice the rear pocket: 
the extra 20%: 
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Avatar by NorthPolar
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Well just a layout of what I used
and this was my first time doing my 80% lower. Tactical Machining AR 15 80% 7075 - T6 lower receiver in the white Modulus arms jig Modulus arms end mill, and drill bits Bosch variable speed router - speed used between 3 and 5 Harbor freight 10" 12 speed drill press - speed used 430 Made sure everything was always level rechecked after every pass and For the depth of end mill and that the drill stop had not moved. |
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Originally Posted By badfishy:
anyone else having trouble with the bosch router they recommend? the mill bit keeps "walking" out of the collet, and milling more than its supposed to. if you tighten the collet too much, it breaks the collet. on my 3rd collet, and the bit still slides out while milling. wish the mill bit had a knurled shank, so it would stay in the collet better. other than that, this jig rocks.  You are not the only one to experience that problem. The strange part is that it seems to be very hit or miss. Not everybody ran into this, but enough did that we've changed our recommendation to the Ridgid R24012 router. I just finished one up using this router, I found that besides solving the collet problem, the Ridgid is much easier to adjust the depth of cut. |
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Originally Posted By Donj441:
I purchased the jig and 80% lower and upper at one time. After doing all the routing, I noticed the hole that retains the spring located under the pistol grip was partially exposed from the milling process. I 'chatted' online with a Modulus tech rep, and he suggested that I must have 'colored outside the line.' I lost the connection, so our discussion did not go any further. I guess my question would be, if the Modulus jig centers the lower to the jig, how can one mill outside the line? I shouldn't be able to put the blame on the lower, as it is sold by Modulas as well. Has anyone else had this problem? I wish I had seen this sooner. I was the one you were chatting with. Once the connection went south I had no way to contact you. I would be glad to go back and explore the possibilities of what went wrong for you. If you would like to do that please contact me through either the website chat or an email to [email protected] Regards, Max |
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Originally Posted By maxxx93: You are not the only one to experience that problem. The strange part is that it seems to be very hit or miss. Not everybody ran into this, but enough did that we've changed our recommendation to the Ridgid R24012 router. I just finished one up using this router, I found that besides solving the collet problem, the Ridgid is much easier to adjust the depth of cut. Originally Posted By maxxx93: Originally Posted By badfishy: anyone else having trouble with the bosch router they recommend? the mill bit keeps "walking" out of the collet, and milling more than its supposed to. if you tighten the collet too much, it breaks the collet. on my 3rd collet, and the bit still slides out while milling. wish the mill bit had a knurled shank, so it would stay in the collet better. other than that, this jig rocks. You are not the only one to experience that problem. The strange part is that it seems to be very hit or miss. Not everybody ran into this, but enough did that we've changed our recommendation to the Ridgid R24012 router. I just finished one up using this router, I found that besides solving the collet problem, the Ridgid is much easier to adjust the depth of cut. Thanks for the reply. I was going to buy the Bosch one. Now I will get the Ridgid. Someone needs to change the pdf to exclude the Bosch. |
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Originally Posted By OverScoped:
Thanks for the reply. I was going to buy the Bosch one. Now I will get the Ridgid. Someone needs to change the pdf to exclude the Bosch. The Bosch was moved way down the recommended router list (from number one, down to next to last) a while ago. The only reason that it was not removed from the list completely is that it will work, it's just not one of the top choices anymore. |
| It won't be long before all the major lower makers offer a 80% lower. Anderson Manufacturing now offers a 80% lower thru Brownells |
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Originally Posted By maxxx93:
The Bosch was moved way down the recommended router list (from number one, down to next to last) a while ago. The only reason that it was not removed from the list completely is that it will work, it's just not one of the top choices anymore. Originally Posted By maxxx93:
Originally Posted By OverScoped:
Thanks for the reply. I was going to buy the Bosch one. Now I will get the Ridgid. Someone needs to change the pdf to exclude the Bosch. The Bosch was moved way down the recommended router list (from number one, down to next to last) a while ago. The only reason that it was not removed from the list completely is that it will work, it's just not one of the top choices anymore. Where can someone find this list? I already have a variable speed 1.5 hp Chicago Electric router ( http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/routers/1-1-2-half-hp-variable-speed-plunge-router-67119.html ) that I have used for a few other house hold projects. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like the one I have should be fine but not sure and would like to get some outside insight on it. |
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Originally Posted By mre1974:
Where can someone find this list? I already have a variable speed 1.5 hp Chicago Electric router ( http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/routers/1-1-2-half-hp-variable-speed-plunge-router-67119.html ) that I have used for a few other house hold projects. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like the one I have should be fine but not sure and would like to get some outside insight on it. Originally Posted By mre1974:
Originally Posted By maxxx93:
Originally Posted By OverScoped:
Thanks for the reply. I was going to buy the Bosch one. Now I will get the Ridgid. Someone needs to change the pdf to exclude the Bosch. The Bosch was moved way down the recommended router list (from number one, down to next to last) a while ago. The only reason that it was not removed from the list completely is that it will work, it's just not one of the top choices anymore. Where can someone find this list? I already have a variable speed 1.5 hp Chicago Electric router ( http://www.harborfreight.com/power-tools/routers/1-1-2-half-hp-variable-speed-plunge-router-67119.html ) that I have used for a few other house hold projects. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like the one I have should be fine but not sure and would like to get some outside insight on it. ModulusArms FAQ Q: What router should I use? A: We recommend the Ridgid R24012. There are many others we have had good results with including; Dewalt D26670, Makita RT0701C, Porter-Cable 7310, Bosch PR20EVSK and Porter-Cable PCE6430. Harbor Freight and Black and Decker have been known to have poor results. There are many that will work and the important thing is that is has a 1/4" chuck and is variable speed. Your 1.5 hp Chicago Electric should work if you do your part. |
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maxxx93
What do you have to say about these guys who had trouble drilling the safety detent with your jigs and lowers: Originally Posted By icrpdmeself: Yeah, it just barely broke through. Not anything to really worry about. I'll just be super careful next time. Originally Posted By Donj441:
I purchased the jig and 80% lower and upper at one time. After doing all the routing, I noticed the hole that retains the spring located under the pistol grip was partially exposed from the milling process. I 'chatted' online with a Modulus tech rep, and he suggested that I must have 'colored outside the line.' I lost the connection, so our discussion did not go any further. I guess my question would be, if the Modulus jig centers the lower to the jig, how can one mill outside the line? I shouldn't be able to put the blame on the lower, as it is sold by Modulas as well. Has anyone else had this problem? Originally Posted By icrpdmeself: Originally Posted By backbencher:
Originally Posted By icrpdmeself: he is talking about the rear safety selector spring. My second lower out of the jig slightly broke through also. I follow the directions to a tee.
I figured the cheap lower I bought might have been out of spec though. Was there more than 50% of the channel left? Does it still hold the spring and detent? Yeah, it just barely broke through. Not anything to really worry about. I'll just be super careful next time. Thanks. Wes |
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The safety detent hole is probably the most common area where builders run into a problem. It is the closest critical area to the FCG pocket and care must be used when milling that area. Our jig when used properly will leave that area .250 thick which is exactly what the AR blueprint calls for.
The edge of the detent hole is only about .050 inboard from where you are cutting. If the router is not laying completely flat against the top plate, the endmill is going to cut at an angle. You do not need to be a off a lot at the top, to be .050 off down in the pocket. Not only have I done a bunch myself, we have many, many happy customers who had no such issue. |
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Tolerances are pretty tight on these. That said, I've blown through the safety detent, mag catch and buffer retainers all with no functional issues.
While many of these methods may get the job done, any time one goes about a task with anything but the optimal tools, some varying level of acceptable results should be expected. All of the 80's and 0%'ers I've done were on a mini mill. None of them were perfect. All of them are functional and some only I know where the flaws are. I'd like to try a few using one of the drill press/router jigs. While I'd like them to work. I certainly won't expect any of them to be perfect. |
A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
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Originally Posted By Solo6:
I find it hard to believe that a jigset as well-designed as this one doesn't HAVE bushings. Originally Posted By Solo6:
Originally Posted By PursuitSS:
I have been looking into adding Drill Bushings to this jig. I find it hard to believe that a jigset as well-designed as this one doesn't HAVE bushings. That is why our side plates are designed the way that they are. You have 4 sets of axis/selector holes to work with. You would need to process many lowers to wear out 4 sets of holes. If you managed to finish off so many lowers that you wear out all 4 sets, the side plates are available separately. |
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Well, I finally started my first Modulus jig 80% tonight and I'd be finished in 1 minute if the Collet nut had not broke in half. Bosch PR20EVSK is the router I have. Everything went pretty smooth. I used the depth gage they supplied and the one on my micrometer. I also measured against a known good lower. I had everything set to do my final pass with the mill in the oval trigger hole, but the bit isn't long enough to reach. I had to loosen the collet nut and slide the bit out less than and 1/16. I was that close. When I went to tighten the nut up the bottom broke through, so now I have to get another one so I can finish. Total time invested, including setting up the jig is 3.5 hours. I'd like to add that I also vacuumed everything out between each pass with the crevice tool on my shop vac. I set my speed on 5.5 and used a lot of cutting oil. |
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Originally Posted By OverScoped:
I had everything set to do my final pass with the mill in the oval trigger hole, but the bit isn't long enough to reach. I had to loosen the collet nut and slide the bit out less than and 1/16. I was that close. When I went to tighten the nut up the bottom broke through, so now I have to get another one so I can finish. Were you using our endmill? When you are at the bottom of the FCG pocket you should still have almost 1-1/2" (~1.400) sticking through the top of the jig, more than enough to engage your router properly. |
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Originally Posted By maxxx93: Were you using our endmill? When you are at the bottom of the FCG pocket you should still have almost 1-1/2" (~1.400) sticking through the top of the jig, more than enough to engage your router properly. Originally Posted By maxxx93: Originally Posted By OverScoped: I had everything set to do my final pass with the mill in the oval trigger hole, but the bit isn't long enough to reach. I had to loosen the collet nut and slide the bit out less than and 1/16. I was that close. When I went to tighten the nut up the bottom broke through, so now I have to get another one so I can finish. Were you using our endmill? When you are at the bottom of the FCG pocket you should still have almost 1-1/2" (~1.400) sticking through the top of the jig, more than enough to engage your router properly. yes, I have your entire milling kit. I had the end mill bit all the way in the router. It wont reach. when I repositioned it the collet nut broke upon tightening it. I dunno how much torque to put on it, but the directions say make it tight. I guess I made it too tight. |
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Originally Posted By OverScoped:
yes, I have your entire milling kit. I had the end mill bit all the way in the router. It wont reach. when I repositioned it the collet nut broke upon tightening it. I dunno how much torque to put on it, but the directions say make it tight. I guess I made it too tight. Oh OK, I guess I misread your original post. I thought you were saying that the endmill was too short. We have been seeing more and more issues with the collet on the Bosche router, usually it's a slippage problem though. It has been moved way down on our recommended router list. No matter who's router you use you should not have the endmill in as far as it will go. Slide it all the way in then pull it back out a 1/8"-1/4" or so before you tighten the collet. Max |
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Originally Posted By maxxx93: Are You talking about jigs or lowers? I'm not aware of anything in the immediate future on lowers, but stay tuned for some really exciting news in the jig dept.  Originally Posted By maxxx93: Originally Posted By Wangstang: Any chance of a discount/ promo ode coming out soon? Maxx93? Are You talking about jigs or lowers? I'm not aware of anything in the immediate future on lowers, but stay tuned for some really exciting news in the jig dept.  |
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Originally Posted By maxxx93: Oh OK, I guess I misread your original post. I thought you were saying that the endmill was too short. We have been seeing more and more issues with the collet on the Bosche router, usually it's a slippage problem though. It has been moved way down on our recommended router list. No matter who's router you use you should not have the endmill in as far as it will go. Slide it all the way in then pull it back out a 1/8"-1/4" or so before you tighten the collet. Max Originally Posted By maxxx93: Originally Posted By OverScoped: yes, I have your entire milling kit. I had the end mill bit all the way in the router. It wont reach. when I repositioned it the collet nut broke upon tightening it. I dunno how much torque to put on it, but the directions say make it tight. I guess I made it too tight. Oh OK, I guess I misread your original post. I thought you were saying that the endmill was too short. We have been seeing more and more issues with the collet on the Bosche router, usually it's a slippage problem though. It has been moved way down on our recommended router list. No matter who's router you use you should not have the endmill in as far as it will go. Slide it all the way in then pull it back out a 1/8"-1/4" or so before you tighten the collet. Max Ok well that's what I have, because it was on your list...... So anyway...... The first time I used it, the end mill slipped and I ruined a lower... I have several, so I started all over again and tightened the hell out of it. All it took to blow the nut out was two tightening sequences. That's weak. Maybee that one should be off your list too. |
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Any chance you could return the Bosch unit? Most of the big box stores are pretty liberal when it comes to returning bad merchandise.
It seems to be hit or miss on those Bosch routers. I have customers that have had no issues with them at all, while others have run into problems with the collet, such as yours. If you can get out from under that unit, I highly recommend the Ridgid R24012 |
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Originally Posted By maxxx93: Any chance you could return the Bosch unit? Most of the big box stores are pretty liberal when it comes to returning bad merchandise. It seems to be hit or miss on those Bosch routers. I have customers that have had no issues with them at all, while others have run into problems with the collet, such as yours. If you can get out from under that unit, I highly recommend the Ridgid R24012 |
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Originally Posted By maxxx93:
Are You talking about jigs or lowers? I'm not aware of anything in the immediate future on lowers, but stay tuned for some really exciting news in the jig dept. Originally Posted By maxxx93:
Originally Posted By Wangstang:
Any chance of a discount/ promo ode coming out soon? Maxx93? Are You talking about jigs or lowers? I'm not aware of anything in the immediate future on lowers, but stay tuned for some really exciting news in the jig dept. I've been watching for a Memorial Day sale...where might we find a notice for a discount code or sale if something comes up? Wes |
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I've owned and used both the Modulus and the 80% Arms jigs and lowers. Both jigs are good but the end mills on both are carbide which is more prone to breakage than HSS (high speed steel). Unfortunately, I've broken end mills from both vendors - I need to buy my 5th now, having made many, many lowers!
For 7075 or 6061 aluminum, Maxx, why not use HSS end mills? Apparently, that's less brittle than carbide. BTW, the Modulus Arms is more "idiot proof" than the 80percentarms jig. I've ruined two lowers and one jig using the 80percent arms jig. The Modulus is still as new and definitely what I would recommend for someone using one for the first time. There are a few more screws to install and uninstall, but that process makes it more idiot-proof. Of course, the problem may be that I sometimes drink a beer or two while machining... And if anyone is wondering, the quality of the lowers is not even close. The modulus lowers are gorgeous! I've bought the green, blue, red, and regular. The colored ones are gorgeous. The ones from 80 percent arms are not even close. If you're buying lowers at the same time, Modulus is much better. |
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Originally Posted By Gunlos:
For 7075 or 6061 aluminum, Maxx, why not use HSS end mills? Apparently, that's less brittle than carbide. Yes HSS is less brittle than carbide, they are also less expensive. The trade off is the ability to hold an edge. 7075 is tougher than you think to machine as far as tool life goes. That said, you should have better luck than you've been having with them. Try going a little shallower on the cuts and maybe back the speed down a tad. |
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Max,
Any reason to not buy 2 or 2.5 hp full size routers for your jig? One that size would be useful for more than just 80% jigs in my neck of the woods but I want to make sure I am not overlooking a key point of the smaller models like the 5.5 amp rigid. Thanks, Wes |
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Originally Posted By Wangstang:
Max, Any reason to not buy 2 or 2.5 hp full size routers for your jig? One that size would be useful for more than just 80% jigs in my neck of the woods but I want to make sure I am not overlooking a key point of the smaller models like the 5.5 amp rigid. Thanks, Wes I've used a craftsman full size router with the Modulus Jig. Although it worked fine, the top plate on the modulus jig isn't very large and the large base plate/guard on the router is always overhanging the top jig plate. You will just need to be careful how you hold it. My router has two handles which I keep in parallel and above the top plate while routing. If I rotate the router 90 degrees, the handles will not be above the top plate, they will be perpendicular to the cut of FCG pocket. In this case, too much down pressure on one handle may cause the router to slip/pivot off the top plate and push the cutting tool into the side of the lower or the jig. Probably my fault, but just wanted to share my experience. Only made this mistake once and I was able to still use the lower. Haven't used one of the smaller trim routers so I don't know if they would have the same problem. |
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Originally Posted By Wangstang:
Max, Any reason to not buy 2 or 2.5 hp full size routers for your jig? One that size would be useful for more than just 80% jigs in my neck of the woods but I want to make sure I am not overlooking a key point of the smaller models like the 5.5 amp rigid. Thanks, Wes The only requirements are that it be variable speed and have a 1/4" collet. The reason we recommend the smaller trim routers is because they meet those requirements and are also smaller/easier to handle and cost less. I have tried a couple of different ones and the Ridgid R24012 is hands down my favorite for this application. It is small. light weight, has a built in LED. It packs 1-1/2 horse power, has a very precise depth adjusting mechanism and wont break the bank. |
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I recently bought 3 80% lowers from Modulus along with the jig. I'm new to this and not experienced with metalworking and power tools in general. I bought a dewalt router for doing them and used a dewalt corded hand drill for the holes. Using the end mill was very easy and dare I say; "fun".  However, drilling the holes in the lower was brutal and took a LONG time and a lot of effort in the 7075 aluminum. Been eyeing a cheap drill press like this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQONFVE/ for the lowers... not sure if that would be a good one or not.Also, since the drill bit for the trigger and hammer pins essentially comes out to .156 rather than .154, I used the oversize .155 KNS pins and they work well. I did mess up one of my lowers and didn't check the depth collar and it slipped a bit. I ended up drilling down to far towards the pistol grip area so that on the left side, there is about 1/16" that was opened up into the lower. I didn't think it was that big of a deal since putting the grip on covers it up entirely. Other than that, I need to remember to cover the sides of the lower with tape before working on it - lots of tiny scratches in the finish from aluminum shavings rubbing up against it. |
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I purchased one of these jigs a while ago and tried the hand router thing. I'm either not skilled enough or don't have the patience or my titty grabbers are not steady enough, cause I ruined a end mill in .5 seconds flat. Second try was my FIL's old mill. It took a couple hours to get the table to move enough in the X and Y axis to work on the jig. When I finally get it cleaned up, I find that there were a couple of issues. The table had about 1/2" of free movement after it got under load(accounting for my second broken end mill), the spindle was bent and the drill chuck would not hold the mill tight enough to make a level pass. I did finish one lower on that machine, it was not pretty, but it worked. Knowing I want to do multiple more, My brother and I bit the bullet on a Seig X2D mini mill from My Little Machine Shop. I just finished my second one last night and damn, that is sweet. Thanks Paul for the tutorial, it was very helpful.   |
Comrade Professor of the People's University of the Study and Advancement of the Glorious .40 S&W. Official Party member #53
Teener Crew 4 Lyfe
Official ARFCOM nickname - Amphibian
Teener Crew 4 Lyfe
Official ARFCOM nickname - Amphibian
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Originally Posted By jtb33:
I recently bought 3 80% lowers from Modulus along with the jig. I'm new to this and not experienced with metalworking and power tools in general. I bought a dewalt router for doing them and used a dewalt corded hand drill for the holes. Using the end mill was very easy and dare I say; "fun". However, drilling the holes in the lower was brutal and took a LONG time and a lot of effort in the 7075 aluminum. Been eyeing a cheap drill press like this one: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HQONFVE/ for the lowers... not sure if that would be a good one or not.
Also, since the drill bit for the trigger and hammer pins essentially comes out to .156 rather than .154, I used the oversize .155 KNS pins and they work well. I did mess up one of my lowers and didn't check the depth collar and it slipped a bit. I ended up drilling down to far towards the pistol grip area so that on the left side, there is about 1/16" that was opened up into the lower. I didn't think it was that big of a deal since putting the grip on covers it up entirely. Other than that, I need to remember to cover the sides of the lower with tape before working on it - lots of tiny scratches in the finish from aluminum shavings rubbing up against it. Try one of these chip clearing bits. They are available in HSS and Cobalt. I use the HSS ones and they work great. They will shave time and ease your frustration. Chip Clearing Bits |
Budget builder-DIY'er
Comrade Professor of the People's University of the Study and Advancement of the Glorious .40 S&W. Official Party member #53
Teener Crew 4 Lyfe
Official ARFCOM nickname - Amphibian
Teener Crew 4 Lyfe
Official ARFCOM nickname - Amphibian
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Originally Posted By maxxx93:
That came out terrific, nice job. http://i1028.photobucket.com/albums/y346/max162/custrif_zpskr0guuqu.jpg Thanks. I spent a little more than I wanted to but it really is a nice shooting well balanced piece. |
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Did a bit of work before I remembered to take pics.
I drill the 3 holes from each side. I use end mills then follow up with a reamer. Probably not all that necessary, but it doesn't take much more time and everything goes together nicely. 
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A firearm is like a parachute, if you need one but don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
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Originally Posted By maxxx93:
Are You talking about jigs or lowers? I'm not aware of anything in the immediate future on lowers, but stay tuned for some really exciting news in the jig dept. Originally Posted By maxxx93:
Originally Posted By Wangstang:
Any chance of a discount/ promo ode coming out soon? Maxx93? Are You talking about jigs or lowers? I'm not aware of anything in the immediate future on lowers, but stay tuned for some really exciting news in the jig dept. For those that took Maxxx at his word... New from Modulus today! http://www.slickguns.com/product/black-friday-deal-modulus-arms-heavy-duty-universal-ar-15-jig-17999 Direct link: http://www.modulusarms.com/heavy-duty-universal-ar-15-80-lower-receiver-jig/ Soooo excited! |
Modulus Arms 80% Lower Jig Review (photo heavy) (Page 3 of 4)
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