AR Sponsor
Posted: 11/15/2013 5:45:41 PM EDT
| When I build my current AR a few years ago I bought a stripped spikes lower from a local gun shop and when they ran it though they ran it as a pistol I know because they tried to make me wait 3 days for it until I showed them my CWL. MY question is would that lower because it was originally sold to me as a pistol would I be able to use it in a pistol config if I made it into a rifle first? |
|
Yes..... if lower was registered as Pistol then you can go from Pistol to Rifle then back to Pistol.....if you went from rifle (though lower was registered as Pistol) first then back to Pistol and no one knows about it then no one can prove that it was never a Pistol.....just don't have any buffer tube/stock for rifle around.....
 |
|
Quoted:
When I build my current AR a few years ago I bought a stripped spikes lower from a local gun shop and when they ran it though they ran it as a pistol I know because they tried to make me wait 3 days for it until I showed them my CWL. MY question is would that lower because it was originally sold to me as a pistol would I be able to use it in a pistol config if I made it into a rifle first? Well, first of all, at least since 2008, it should have been marked as "other firearm" on 4473. However, regardless of that issue, a lower first configured as a rifle is illegal to make into a pistol. Not saying anything about odds of getting caught, but that is the ruling since 1992, and that's from SCOTUS. - OS |
|
Quoted:
Yes..... if lower was registered as Pistol then you can go from Pistol to Rifle then back to Pistol...... There is no registration in FL, and the fact that a FFL there may have erroneously filled out 4473 does not make you exempt from laws and regs. Or maybe this was not in FL, OP didn't say for sure (no waiting period there AFAIK). Again, should push ever come to shove, a state's (mis) classification system is also not a defense if it conflicts with federal law. - OS |
| If you still have your original paper work showing it was sold as Pistol then that's all you'll need.....you can't argue in writing and that's how it was reported by your FFL dealer when purchased so if/when they check that's what will come up on their end....you are good to go. |
|
Quoted:
If you still have your original paper work showing it was sold as Pistol then that's all you'll need.....you can't argue in writing and that's how it was reported by your FFL dealer when purchased so if/when they check that's what will come up on their end....you are good to go. Maybe. If ever investigated, ATF would go back to manufacturer and see how it was released by them. Then to the first FFL and see how he sold it. Which includes his bound books. If listed as a lower both ways, that's what would count if they wanted to grind the axe. Meaning, if his bound book or his receipt to buyer said "pistol lower", would mean "lower", simple as that. They'd of course have to prove you first made a rifle, and that's the real point of why it's so unlikely one could be successfully prosecuted in these kind of situations. - OS |
That's all IF...... as long as owner has the original receipt when he/she is being stopped and rifle is built as what receipt shows (Pistol) I doubt very much LEO or any law official will go out of their way to proof something unless the owner is acting like an A$$ 
|
|
Quoted:
That's all IF...... as long as owner has the original receipt when he/she is being stopped and rifle is built as what receipt shows (Pistol) I doubt very much LEO or any law official will go out of their way to proof something unless the owner is acting like an A$$ Of course. This and at least most "constructive possession" issues would almost certainly never arise if you don't become under the radar for something else. It's just that the law is clear on the matter since the 1992 SCOTUS ruling, so that's all I ever feel comfortable stating -- a firearm first configured as a rifle can not be legally modified into anything other than a legal rifle without a tax stamp, simple as that. Beyond that you pay to play, YMMV, objects in mirror may be closer than they appear, whatever. - OS |
|
Quoted:
There is no real possible way to tell if you built a pistol first other than your word right? As far as a virgin lower that you purchased, and as long as lie detector tests remain non-mandatory and inadmissible, would take evidence of your statements (taped/email/facebook/etc) or witnesses to testify against you, I'd think. - OS |
|
Quoted: There is no real possible way to tell if you built a pistol first other than your word right? You will never win in court, if you have all the money in the world to fight them in court you are not going to be worrying about this receiver and just buy yourself another one that will not get you into court.....not worth the time & money, they are cheap enough that you don't need the headache
 |
|
Quoted:
You will never win in court, if you have all the money in the world to fight them in court you are not going to be worrying about this receiver and just buy yourself another one that will not get you into court.....not worth the time & money, they are cheap enough that you don't need the headache
Quoted:
Quoted:
There is no real possible way to tell if you built a pistol first other than your word right? You will never win in court, if you have all the money in the world to fight them in court you are not going to be worrying about this receiver and just buy yourself another one that will not get you into court.....not worth the time & money, they are cheap enough that you don't need the headache
Oh, there's every reason to think you would win in court. The ATF doesn't have all that great a track record. But of course it's generally a Pyrrhic victory, since your overall loss in winning may well be only marginally better than having been convicted. There are other types of prison in life than Leavenworth. - OS |
|
Gentlemen, The question that was posted is if the lower was made into a rifle first would it be legal to make it into a pistol later. The answer is no. Regardless of how the lower was transferred, if it is first barreled as a rifle it cannot legally be made into a pistol at a later date, period. ETA: If we as responsible gun owners cannot follow simple law, because the odds of getting caught are low, then there are a great many people just looking for an excuse to push more laws on us. Do it right the first time and you have nothing to worry about. |
|
There is one other thing that I will bring up guys. And I do it as information NOT to give anyone a "loophole". If you buy a unbarreled receiver from an FFL, or even in a private sale, and do so as a virgin firearm, never having been barreled, your pretty safe. If you then build this into a pistol, with the honest convection that it it has never been barreled as a rifle and for any reason it turns out that it was in fact a rifle first then it will be considered a unregistered SBR. However the likelihood of being convicted for this is nil, not because it is hard to do but because of Staples v. U.S., - U.S. - (1994) where the Supreme Court reversed the 10th circuit and decided that in order to convict someone under the NFA of possessing an unregistered (untaxed) weapon, they must prove the defendant knew it was the sort of gun regulated by the NFA. I post this for research and educational purposes only, not as any type of legal advise. |
Like I said why go through the headache, for around $100 just buy another lower receiver and do it right.....and don't tell anyone what you did if you decide to do other than what you bought it for.....no one will know, no trace of it, if you get caught then just act stupid......hahaha...j/k.....don't break the law, not worth it 
|
|
Quoted:
Gentlemen, The question that was posted is if the lower was made into a rifle first would it be legal to make it into a pistol later. The answer is no. Regardless of how the lower was transferred, if it is first barreled as a rifle it cannot legally be made into a pistol at a later date, period. ETA: If we as responsible gun owners cannot follow simple law, because the odds of getting caught are low, then there are a great many people just looking for an excuse to push more laws on us. Do it right the first time and you have nothing to worry about. Well the question was if it was transferred as a pistol and made it into a rifle could you go back to a pistol. The legal answer seems is no but the reality is who is ever going to check. Is it worth the chance over a $100 lower probably not. |
|
Quoted: Well the question was if it was transferred as a pistol and made it into a rifle could you go back to a pistol. The legal answer seems is no but the reality is who is ever going to check. Is it worth the chance over a $100 lower probably not. Quoted: Quoted: Gentlemen, The question that was posted is if the lower was made into a rifle first would it be legal to make it into a pistol later. The answer is no. Regardless of how the lower was transferred, if it is first barreled as a rifle it cannot legally be made into a pistol at a later date, period. ETA: If we as responsible gun owners cannot follow simple law, because the odds of getting caught are low, then there are a great many people just looking for an excuse to push more laws on us. Do it right the first time and you have nothing to worry about. Well the question was if it was transferred as a pistol and made it into a rifle could you go back to a pistol. The legal answer seems is no but the reality is who is ever going to check. Is it worth the chance over a $100 lower probably not. The legal definition, passed by congress and codified in 27 CFR 478.11, of a pistol is "A weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s)." Unless each and every part of that definition can be applied to the firearm in question then is not a pistol. Indeed the very wording "originally designed, made and intended" is the exactly reason that a pistol can legally be converted to a rifle and then returned to a pistol, because it was "originally designed, made and intended" . And once again, the very thought of "who's going to know" should never even be thought of much less expressed on an open forum. This is the kind of thought/talk that puts ideas in the heads of the anti-gun groups that more, stricter laws and compliance checks must be enacted because we cannot be trusted to police ourselves. Prisons are full of people who thought "who will ever know" when they broke the law. |
AR Sponsor