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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LaRue MBT (Page 1 of 11)
Posted: 2/22/2016 4:18:22 AM EDT
This is a first look at the LaRue Meticulously Built Trigger. Yes it's about a year late. We will update with details once we've used it for a while.
Finally getting around to trying out a LaRue MBT. It will be going into a build this week, and we will report back once we've had some time with it. Initial thoughts: As the name says, it looks like an extremely well built trigger. Machining is smooth, and everything looks clean. All components are solid and thicker than their mil spec counterparts. 
It comes packaged in a nice tin with a clear top. Someone spent some time designing the packaging, and it looks great. Others might say any money spend on packaging is wasted, but in this case it is a great presentation, and I don't think the materials for the packaging were all that expensive. It does give it a very professional look, stacks easily for inventory, and protects the product. The tin is reusable, so after you install your trigger you can put the packaging to good use elsewhere so it won't go to waste. The trigger comes with a second heavier spring so you can determine which trigger spring to use. Not a lot we can say about it without installing it, so updates will come shortly! ====================== UPDATE : 22 FEB 16 ====================== The closest competitor to the MBT would most likely be the Geissele SSA/SSA-E trigger, though I have not tried the G2S. As a result, we will focus our comparison on a comparison of the MBT with the SSA. There are other great triggers for specific purposes, but a good two stage is definitely a great all-around trigger. Here are a few pics comparing the products before installation. Starting off with a picture of the MBT and the SSA 
Here is what is included with the SSA - RETAIL PRICE $220 ($240 for SSA-E, $165 for G2S) 
Here is what is included with the MBT - RETAIL PRICE $199 (or $125 if you're willing to wait a while) 
And now to look at the components themselves. First up is a standard MilSpec Trigger Group 
SSA 
MBT 
Comparing both triggers side by side 
And the face of the triggers 
And the hammers (SSA on left, MBT on right) 
Our next step will be installation and subjective comparison. Others have already posted empirical trigger profile data as collected by both LaRue and Geissele. |
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Quoted:
I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please We did this at the MOA shoot last fall. I am working on a better test for this year's shoot. It's hard to do, because a lot of people are biased and can ID a trigger by looks. I'm trying to figure out a way to have the identifying marks on the triggers covered and have a true, double blind test (where the shooters and the person running the evaluation, do not know which is which). It gets expensive, as each trigger needs an identical gun for a host. Does anyone want to donate 3 identical rifles for the test? 
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Quoted: I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please The SSA/SSA-E has a bit more drag to the second stage, whereas the MBT builds and pops over very quickly. FWIW, I have several MBT's along with a Geissele S2S, SD-C, B-GRF, and High Speed Match. Here are the graphs from Mark's testing of the MBT back to back with the SSA.   Here is Geissele's graph of the high speed series.  |
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Quoted: We did this at the MOA shoot last fall. I am working on a better test for this year's shoot. It's hard to do, because a lot of people are biased and can ID a trigger by looks. I'm trying to figure out a way to have the identifying marks on the triggers covered and have a true, double blind test (where the shooters and the person running the evaluation, do not know which is which). It gets expensive, as each trigger needs an identical gun for a host. Does anyone want to donate 3 identical rifles for the test? Quoted: Quoted: I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please We did this at the MOA shoot last fall. I am working on a better test for this year's shoot. It's hard to do, because a lot of people are biased and can ID a trigger by looks. I'm trying to figure out a way to have the identifying marks on the triggers covered and have a true, double blind test (where the shooters and the person running the evaluation, do not know which is which). It gets expensive, as each trigger needs an identical gun for a host. Does anyone want to donate 3 identical rifles for the test? |
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Quoted:
You can tell them by the feel of the trigger bow as well. Makes a blind test pretty hard. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please We did this at the MOA shoot last fall. I am working on a better test for this year's shoot. It's hard to do, because a lot of people are biased and can ID a trigger by looks. I'm trying to figure out a way to have the identifying marks on the triggers covered and have a true, double blind test (where the shooters and the person running the evaluation, do not know which is which). It gets expensive, as each trigger needs an identical gun for a host. Does anyone want to donate 3 identical rifles for the test? Find someone like me who has never touched or seen either one in real life 
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Quoted:
this. i am building an SBR for duty use right now and trying to decide if this is a good fit. Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please this. i am building an SBR for duty use right now and trying to decide if this is a good fit. Guys, I will say this, I have one AR with a Geissele SSA in it and another with the MBT. Although the SSA is nice, I do like the MBT a bit better. To me, the MBT has a smoother and cleaner break than the SSA. I am not a fanboy of either, but the MBT made a believer out of me in that it proves that Geissele is not the only quality trigger in town. |
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Quoted:
this. i am building an SBR for duty use right now and trying to decide if this is a good fit. Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please this. i am building an SBR for duty use right now and trying to decide if this is a good fit. For a duty SBR, I would not recommend a 2-stage trigger. You may want to consider the ALG ACT instead. I keep mil-spec type triggers on my SBRs and most all of my other ARs. My SPRs are a different story. |
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Quoted: For a duty SBR, I would not recommend a 2-stage trigger. You may want to consider the ALG ACT instead. I keep mil-spec type triggers on my SBRs and most all of my other ARs. My SPRs are a different story. Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please this. i am building an SBR for duty use right now and trying to decide if this is a good fit. For a duty SBR, I would not recommend a 2-stage trigger. You may want to consider the ALG ACT instead. I keep mil-spec type triggers on my SBRs and most all of my other ARs. My SPRs are a different story.  If your worried about it being too light, then add the extra 1.2lb to the MBT trigger from the heavier trigger spring. Comes out just over 6lb total weight. |
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i see no issue and have neevr had an issue with a 2stage on a duty rifle. under rapid use they are really no different than a single stage with just a little extra takeup, which is really a non issue for cqb. you still get the benefit of better accuracy for aimed fire when needed. i have used other 2 stage triggers with good results in the past.
just because you have an SBR is no reason to expect a ranged shot may not be needed. In fact for a non entry team that is actually more likely. |
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Quoted:
Guys, I will say this, I have one AR with a Geissele SSA in it and another with the MBT. Although the SSA is nice, I do like the MBT a bit better. To me, the MBT has a smoother and cleaner break than the SSA. I am not a fanboy of either, but the MBT made a believer out of me in that it proves that Geissele is not the only quality trigger in town. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please this. i am building an SBR for duty use right now and trying to decide if this is a good fit. Guys, I will say this, I have one AR with a Geissele SSA in it and another with the MBT. Although the SSA is nice, I do like the MBT a bit better. To me, the MBT has a smoother and cleaner break than the SSA. I am not a fanboy of either, but the MBT made a believer out of me in that it proves that Geissele is not the only quality trigger in town. I have a SSA and a couple of the G2S's. I have used a SSA-E as well and the MBT has a cleaner/smoother pull. At the $125 I can wait price, it's a No-brainer. |
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I love mine.
Side by side comparison with Geissele high-speed? Pretty comparable. I think I still like my Geissele better (by a hair), but I've shot it more. Give me a couple more sessions with the MBT and I might change my mind. It's definitely a solid offering. Installs in no time, shoots like a dream. I'd buy another without hesitation. |
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Weight is pretty much identical to the SSA/SD-C. The actual break is a bit more crisp, IMO it pops a little more like the high speed series, but with the heavier weight of the SSA. (This is with the standard spring, not the heavier spring.) The SSA/SSA-E has a bit more drag to the second stage, whereas the MBT builds and pops over very quickly. FWIW, I have several MBT's along with a Geissele S2S, SD-C, B-GRF, and High Speed Match. Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please The SSA/SSA-E has a bit more drag to the second stage, whereas the MBT builds and pops over very quickly. FWIW, I have several MBT's along with a Geissele S2S, SD-C, B-GRF, and High Speed Match. I am pretty much a newbie to fancy-pants triggers, but recently upgraded all my rifles. I have a G2S and a MBT, and I would agree that the MBT has a cleaner break. I also used the original spring, so it's a little lighter. I thought the MBT also fit just a tad nicer on the FCG pins as well (both the ones that come with the trigger and a set of KNS pins). I only used the Geissele pins with the G2S. I know the G2S is not a SSA so it may be a poor comparison, but they say they're basically the same with different QC. I paid pretty close to the same for both with sales. I have a whole list of Geissele products I'd like to own, and will at least some of them, but for now the MBT seems like a better value. Disclaimer: untrained knob, sample size of one, etc, etc. I'd like to think I'm fairly un-biased, since I'm pretty new to the fancy triggers. I've been shooting for a long time, just not with the upgraded stuff--always the stock triggers. I also picked up a CMC, RRA NM, and ALG QMS but have only tried the CMC so far. |
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The MBT is one of the, if not THE best option out there when it comes to AR triggers. It's a fantastic looking and feeling trigger with an amazing break. Smooth and comfortable, a pleasure to use in a variety of situations and purposes.
I'm looking forward to your opinion down the road, Ed. The MBT is a game changer, and with it being as cheap as $125? You cannot go wrong. |
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Quoted:
The MBT is one of the, if not THE best option out there when it comes to AR triggers. It's a fantastic looking and feeling trigger with an amazing break. Smooth and comfortable, a pleasure to use in a variety of situations and purposes. I'm looking forward to your opinion down the road, Ed. The MBT is a game changer, and with it being as cheap as $125? You cannot go wrong. That's one of your best Larue sales pitches to date. 
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Quoted: The MBT is one of the, if not THE best option out there when it comes to AR triggers. It's a fantastic looking and feeling trigger with an amazing break. Smooth and comfortable, a pleasure to use in a variety of situations and purposes. I'm looking forward to your opinion down the road, Ed. The MBT is a game changer, and with it being as cheap as $125? You cannot go wrong. It's not going to replace a bunch of triggers at the big matches until it has a lock time of 4ms or under. It also doesn't compete with the single stage triggers (and there are a lot of good single stage options). It does trump the SSA and maybe the SSA-E, and at close to $100 less. They're all very good triggers, and as always everyone will prefer something slightly different. There will be a few people who feel the SSA feels better. Some won't like the wide profile of the MBT. Some will want the flat face of the SD-C/SD-E. Most IMO will find the MBT to be a slightly better trigger at significantly less cost when compared to it's direct competitor, the SSA. |
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Quoted:
That's one of your best Larue sales pitches to date. Quoted:
Quoted:
The MBT is one of the, if not THE best option out there when it comes to AR triggers. It's a fantastic looking and feeling trigger with an amazing break. Smooth and comfortable, a pleasure to use in a variety of situations and purposes. I'm looking forward to your opinion down the road, Ed. The MBT is a game changer, and with it being as cheap as $125? You cannot go wrong. That's one of your best Larue sales pitches to date.  Sorry about that. Just wanted to echo the statements of many and throw my 2 cents in there.
It really is a nice change to the typical AR trigger design though.  Haven't had anyone shoot my rifles equipped with them and dislike it.
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Quoted:
We did this at the MOA shoot last fall. I am working on a better test for this year's shoot. It's hard to do, because a lot of people are biased and can ID a trigger by looks. I'm trying to figure out a way to have the identifying marks on the triggers covered and have a true, double blind test (where the shooters and the person running the evaluation, do not know which is which). It gets expensive, as each trigger needs an identical gun for a host. Does anyone want to donate 3 identical rifles for the test? Quoted:
Quoted:
I would like a no bullshit comparison to a similar Geissele model, please We did this at the MOA shoot last fall. I am working on a better test for this year's shoot. It's hard to do, because a lot of people are biased and can ID a trigger by looks. I'm trying to figure out a way to have the identifying marks on the triggers covered and have a true, double blind test (where the shooters and the person running the evaluation, do not know which is which). It gets expensive, as each trigger needs an identical gun for a host. Does anyone want to donate 3 identical rifles for the test? Not pocket change cheap but all you need is 3 identical lowers. You can even swap the stock out from one to another to save a few $$. |
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Quoted:
It's not the best. Lock time is comparable to the SSA, but not as fast as the Hi Speed series. Overall pull weight is stuck at about 5lb. It's not going to replace a bunch of triggers at the big matches until it has a lock time of 4ms or under. It also doesn't compete with the single stage triggers (and there are a lot of good single stage options). It does trump the SSA and maybe the SSA-E, and at close to $100 less. They're all very good triggers, and as always everyone will prefer something slightly different. There will be a few people who feel the SSA feels better. Some won't like the wide profile of the MBT. Some will want the flat face of the SD-C/SD-E. Most IMO will find the MBT to be a slightly better trigger at significantly less cost when compared to it's direct competitor, the SSA. Quoted:
Quoted:
The MBT is one of the, if not THE best option out there when it comes to AR triggers. It's a fantastic looking and feeling trigger with an amazing break. Smooth and comfortable, a pleasure to use in a variety of situations and purposes. I'm looking forward to your opinion down the road, Ed. The MBT is a game changer, and with it being as cheap as $125? You cannot go wrong. It's not going to replace a bunch of triggers at the big matches until it has a lock time of 4ms or under. It also doesn't compete with the single stage triggers (and there are a lot of good single stage options). It does trump the SSA and maybe the SSA-E, and at close to $100 less. They're all very good triggers, and as always everyone will prefer something slightly different. There will be a few people who feel the SSA feels better. Some won't like the wide profile of the MBT. Some will want the flat face of the SD-C/SD-E. Most IMO will find the MBT to be a slightly better trigger at significantly less cost when compared to it's direct competitor, the SSA. Depending on the purpose of the rifle, I think the MBT is one of the better multi purpose options available in its class. (Personal opinion obviously) I probably should have stated so in my original post. With that said, I will fully admit it doesn't have a home in all of my rifles. I still have G triggers in a number of rifles. Not only due to price (Now an old factor since prices have come down for now), but there are other reasons. As for single stage triggers, the MBT is a different beast, yes. But there aren't many single stage triggers that I like enough to keep in rifles. Finally, I will leave this one last tidbit in regards to my personal use. You know me. You know I enjoy shooting the MOA all day. Which trigger is in my best attempt. Trust me when I say, I'm an equal opportunity trigger guy. This fact alone I think about quite often when considering my trigger preferences and what I can do to improve.
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I agree with you, it's one of the best multi-purpose triggers available. My top MOA entry was done with a MBT as well. I recently swapped it for a high speed though, I wanted that 4ms lock time Most guns don't need an adjustable trigger, it's one more item that can come loose or screw up. MBT's are probably the best non-adjustable two stage trigger available. (I haven't tried the Wilson two stage, it might be better). |
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Quoted:
My top MOA entry was done with a MBT as well. I recently swapped it for a high speed though, I wanted that 4ms lock time
Mine wasn't with an MBT was the point I was making. However, now that my precision ARs wear MBT's for the most part (Couple stragglers), I'm hoping to beat that top record. Been close a few times, but when the numbers get that small, the line starts to blur whether it's a problem with my shooting, or the rifle.
I don't get paid to shoot or anything. So I can't change triggers every day. Gotta go with the best all around option available to me currently, and that is the MBT. |
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The LaRue trigger may not be as good as a Geissele, but the comparison between the LaRue trigger and a stock trigger is much better than the comparison between the LaRue trigger and the Geissele triggers. Also consider that you can purchase two LaRue triggers ($125) for the cost of one Geissele trigger ($250).
Installation is a snap. Clear the gun, remove the grip, selector spring, selector detent, and the selector. Knock out the hammer pin and remove the hammer. Knock out the trigger pin and remove the trigger/disconnector. The MBT goes in as one piece. The lighter pull trigger spring is already installed on the MBT. LaRue includes a stronger trigger spring (N.Y. trigger spring ? ) for those of you that want a stronger trigger pull. Only problem I had on one of my guns was that I had loctited the ambi-selector hex screw. I tried to cheat by just removing the grip/selector spring and detent and moving the selector to the position opposite of the safe position (the full auto or burst position if on full auto guns). But the way the MBT is built and the way my lower was machined, there was not enough clearance to install the MBT with the selector in place in any position. I had to take a torch to the selector screw to get enough heat on it to release the loctite (soldering iron didn't work). For $375 I was able to put three MTB's into my guns as compared to $750 if I were to put Geissele triggers into three guns. The other MTB that I purchased was $250 when they first came out. |
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The LaRue trigger may not be as good as a Geissele, but the comparison between the LaRue trigger and a stock trigger is much better than the comparison between the LaRue trigger and the Geissele triggers. I disagree with your assessment. The LaRue MBT with the heavier spring feels very similar to my Geissele G2S. They are certainly more comparable to each other than either are to a Mil-Spec single stage trigger. The biggest difference between the MBT and the Geissele trigger, is the wider trigger on the MBT. After using it, I like the wider face on the trigger. |
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Quoted: what pull weights are available for the MBT? Standard spring. Low of 4.8lb, high of 5.5lb. Heavy spring. Low of 6.28lb, high of 6.64lb.  Reference SSA. Low of 4.7lb, high of 5.39lb. I discarded #10 as it's obviously having issues. It's completely missing the second stage and maps closer to what a S3G should. Reference SSA-E. Low of 4.2lb, high of 4.8lb.  Several people have reported 3.5lb or so on their own gauges. I believe that primarily is an issue with the cheaper trigger pulling gauges. |
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So, I went to the range with the wife this weekend to break in some triggers/ test them out. Brought 3 lowers out with a MBT, SSA-E, and a SD-3G.
Wife doesn't shoot much so I thought she would make a perfect candidate to do a blind test. Her results were as follows: SSA-E: Very smooth with a very very quick bang. MBT: Loved the wide trigger but just didn't feel right. SD-3G: Never realized she even pulled the trigger! Scared of it. So she decided she liked the SSA-E the most. MBT goes into the SPR and the SD-3G goes into my 3-gunner. |
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The standard weight is right about 5lb. With the heavy spring it's about 6.3lb. Here are the charts showing the weight difference. Standard spring. Low of 4.8lb, high of 5.5lb. I bought a couple of the MBTs last year when it only came with the lighter spring. For a tactical AR it was very close to being too light. Almost like a Geissele SSA-E. I bought a MBT recently that came with the heavier spring. It is perfect pull weight for a tactical AR. To me a little better than the Geissele SSA. |
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Quoted: The standard weight is right about 5lb. With the heavy spring it's about 6.3lb. Here are the charts showing the weight difference. Standard spring. Low of 4.8lb, high of 5.5lb. Quoted: Quoted: what pull weights are available for the MBT? Standard spring. Low of 4.8lb, high of 5.5lb. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page3_zpshfutd1ax.jpg Reference SSA. Low of 4.7lb, high of 5.39lb. I discarded #10 as it's obviously having issues. It's completely missing the second stage and maps closer to what a S3G should. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page1_zpsbqw1tnjr.jpg Reference SSA-E. Low of 4.2lb, high of 4.8lb. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page4_zpsgeyozrqz.jpg Several people have reported 3.5lb or so on their own gauges. I believe that primarily is an issue with the cheaper trigger pulling gauges. My NRA Official Trigger Weight System gauge says that my Lyman Electronic is pretty accurate, and even ML said my Lyman was within like .1 pounds of his super expensive gauge; IIRC. There's a lot more that plays into this deviation we are seeing from LT's measurements and our own. Position on the trigger bow being a big one. I measure from the middle of the bow, and LT aside, I've probably done more pull weight testing with the MBT than anyone else out there. That said, using MY method and equipment, my MBTs with the original springs break within an ounce or so of my SSA-E, and within an ounce or so of my SSA with the heavy MBT trigger spring installed. This is using averages over 5 pulls with each. My MBTs have never been 3.5 pounds, more like 3LBS 12-13 ounces. With the NRA weights I have, I can pick up 3.5LBS, but not 4LBS. Since I don't have a 1/4 pound weight, I pulled a 1LB weight and replaced it with a 500 gram (approx. 1.1 pound). I was able to pick up approx. 3.6X pounds. With the heavy spring installed, it picked up 4.5 pounds no problem. |
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Quoted:
The standard weight is right about 5lb. With the heavy spring it's about 6.3lb. Here are the charts showing the weight difference. Standard spring. Low of 4.8lb, high of 5.5lb. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page2_zpspypqihcb.jpg Heavy spring. Low of 6.28lb, high of 6.64lb. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page3_zpshfutd1ax.jpg Reference SSA. Low of 4.7lb, high of 5.39lb. I discarded #10 as it's obviously having issues. It's completely missing the second stage and maps closer to what a S3G should. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page1_zpsbqw1tnjr.jpg Reference SSA-E. Low of 4.2lb, high of 4.8lb. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page4_zpsgeyozrqz.jpg Several people have reported 3.5lb or so on their own gauges. I believe that primarily is an issue with the cheaper trigger pulling gauges. Quoted:
Quoted:
what pull weights are available for the MBT? Standard spring. Low of 4.8lb, high of 5.5lb. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page2_zpspypqihcb.jpg Heavy spring. Low of 6.28lb, high of 6.64lb. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page3_zpshfutd1ax.jpg Reference SSA. Low of 4.7lb, high of 5.39lb. I discarded #10 as it's obviously having issues. It's completely missing the second stage and maps closer to what a S3G should. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page1_zpsbqw1tnjr.jpg Reference SSA-E. Low of 4.2lb, high of 4.8lb. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v145/AUSTINWFT/LT%20Post/Page4_zpsgeyozrqz.jpg Several people have reported 3.5lb or so on their own gauges. I believe that primarily is an issue with the cheaper trigger pulling gauges. Wow, good info. So the standard Laure spring has the pull weight closer to an SSA, not the SSA-E like some earlier reports. The heavier Larue spring is about a pound lighter than a mil spec trigger. |
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i see no issue and have neevr had an issue with a 2stage on a duty rifle. under rapid use they are really no different than a single stage with just a little extra takeup, which is really a non issue for cqb. you still get the benefit of better accuracy for aimed fire when needed. i have used other 2 stage triggers with good results in the past. just because you have an SBR is no reason to expect a ranged shot may not be needed. In fact for a non entry team that is actually more likely. Agreed, I used to think that all duty guns should have a single stage trigger. I no longer think that with quality triggers like Geissele and Larue available today. |
[ARCHIVED THREAD] - LaRue MBT (Page 1 of 11)
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