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Posted: 6/28/2003 11:41:35 AM EDT
[Last Edit: 6/28/2003 12:15:05 PM EDT by racer934]
Went shooting with some 62gr SS109 today and saw something I never experienced.

Shooting my Colt HBar (1/9" 20") I had some rounds that were tumbling before they hit the target. Shooting my Bushy (1/9" 16" Heavy Barrel) and a pre ban Colt Sporter didn't experience it.

Any ideas why this is happening? I will be trying some different ammo tomorrow to see if there is a difference.

Edit to add: Hot Shot, Bosnian Green Tip 62gr SS109

TIA;

-934
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 11:59:02 AM EDT
Given that the bullets weren't striking something between the chamber and the target (muzzle attachment, terrain) and that there wasn't a drastic change is weather conditions between the two it doesn't make any sense with the the info you've given. Have you confirmed (with a rod) that the barrel is actually a .223 1X9"?
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 12:11:10 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Tweak: Given that the bullets weren't striking something between the chamber and the target (muzzle attachment, terrain) and that there wasn't a drastic change is weather conditions between the two it doesn't make any sense with the the info you've given.
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Nope, not hitting any intermediate obstacle. The barrel is naked (post ban) with no brake or suppressor. More than happy to provide additional info, what should I add?
Have you confirmed (with a rod) that the barrel is actually a .223 1X9"?
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Not verfied with a rod. Labled as [b]5.56 NATO 1/9 HBAR[/b]. I have owned this particular rifle for about 4 yrs and this has never happened. I'm stumped. Thanks; -934
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 2:02:25 PM EDT
Was it only this ammo? Have you fired 62 gr bullets before? How far away were the targets? Have you tried any other 62 gr or SS-109 spec ammo?
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 2:13:43 PM EDT
Originally Posted By TAC40: Was it only this ammo? Have you fired 62 gr bullets before? How far away were the targets? Have you tried any other 62 gr or SS-109 spec ammo?
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Not sure if it was this ammo. I am going to shoot some 55gr and some 63gr to see if there is a difference. Targets were 50yds away. Can't say (trying to think back) if I had put any 62gr or other SS109 spec through the HBar before.... -934
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 2:43:59 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 3:33:48 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: Obviously, this shouldn't be happening.
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No kidding? No offense, I just got a chuckle from that line.[:D]
Have you tried using a copper solvant to remove the copper deposits from the rifling? A barrel with heavy deposits (such as one cleaned exclusively with a bore snake) will eventually have trouble getting a good grip on the bullets.
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I have used a copper solvent on the barrel and I used a boresnake only once. Before this outing, I was having some issues with some FTE with the SS109 and gave it a good cleaning (which cleared up my FTE) and didn't start experiencing the keyholing until after a few hundred rounds today. I will go through it tomorrow morning and I will shoot some different ammo. -934
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 4:34:43 PM EDT
Link Posted: 6/28/2003 7:09:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By Troy: Keep us posted. Another cause is severe throat erosion (bump-firing is good for this, or just LOTs of rounds through the gun) and/or a damaged crown.
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I will update tomorrow. In the morning, the HBar will get a complete cleaning and I will shooting some 63gr GP90, 55gr Q3131A and the remainder of the SS109. I have never bump fired the HBar and "only" put maybe 8K rounds through it. I don't consider it LOTs. Thanks for the help, Troy, et al; and I will update. -934
Link Posted: 6/29/2003 5:23:37 PM EDT
Update: Went out shooting with the HBar and started off with some 63gr GP90 with no issues. Swiched to the 55gr Q3131A with no issues. Accuracy was as expected and I switched to the SS109. First mag was fine, second mag got a few keyholes. Switched back to the GP90, with no issues. After a few more mags, a FTE cut my day short. Not too happy. I am going to spend some time and install a new extractor and give it another complete cleaning and try again. If I get more keyholes, upper may go to Colt for a looksee. Thanks; -934
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 8:55:51 AM EDT
I think the Bosnian ammo may have a few out-of-spec bullet diameter ... most likely smaller than it should be. If you have a caliper, try to take some measurements of the bullet diameter from your Bosnian ammo. I bet you will find some that are smaller than the rest. Take measurements of your other ammo too for comparison. oz
Link Posted: 6/30/2003 10:55:51 AM EDT
Link Posted: 7/1/2003 6:18:48 AM EDT
Thanks for all the input, guys. Looks like I got my answer pretty quick! It makes me feel better that it [i]may[/i] be the ammo that's causing my problems, but it worked fine through my Bushmaster and a Colt Sporter. /scratching head.... Thanks, again; -934
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 2:21:13 AM EDT
I had the same problem with American brand ammo. Don`t blame the rifle if it only does it with one brand.
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 5:12:03 AM EDT
Doesn't everyone want keyholing? More damage to target so you can score easier. Maybe the Hotshot stuff has bullets that are made off balance on purpose to cause tumbling?
Link Posted: 7/9/2003 6:01:45 AM EDT
The bullet should not begin to tumble until after it has hit the target, not before or as it impacts. If it tumbles before you loose accuracy, penetration, velocity, and with that its fragmentation effect caused by tumbling after hitting.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 5:56:06 PM EDT
You don't like keyholing? Think of all the soft body tissue damage that buzz saw will do. And, I really like the whizzing/whistling sounds the bullets make as the go down range. Verrrrryyyy Intimidating. Seriously, if I read all of your posts correctly, only one brand pf ammo exhibits the key holing. If that is the case the its the ammo and not the rifle.
Link Posted: 7/11/2003 6:18:49 PM EDT
Originally Posted By DonD: I had the same problem with American brand ammo. Don`t blame the rifle if it only does it with one brand.
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I'll second that! Keyholes all over the place. Not to mention the bulges in the brass that cause FTC.
Link Posted: 7/12/2003 10:50:58 AM EDT
Originally Posted By TAC40: Seriously, if I read all of your posts correctly, only one brand pf ammo exhibits the key holing. If that is the case the its the ammo and not the rifle.
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Looks like that is the case. I have no further issues with the HBar shooting other brands. Looks like I am staying away from the Bosnian SS109. -934
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