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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is the Geissele Phase Array the best AR15 gas system in existence? (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 2/20/2025 4:37:50 PM EDT
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They're putting the longest gas length on their phase array guns. 14.5" Intermediate gas, 16" Rifle gas, 18"-20" Rifle +1 gas. It's insane. If they really wanted too they could've done a 9" with a carbine gas Phase Array GFW. Was dwell time fuddlore this whole time? 
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So many detail in one post. https://adcofirearms.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/11365945.pdf |
| Dwell time isn't fuddlore, it's just insufficient to explain the fluid dynamics at play alone. If I'm looking at the drawing correctly, phase array means 3 gas ports all feeding the gas tube. Even if they're half the diameter of the typical diameter single port, it's significantly more volume of gas per unit of time, making that dwell time less critical to achieve the same pressure. |
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Quoted: Dwell time isn't fuddlore, it's just insufficient to explain the fluid dynamics at play alone. If I'm looking at the drawing correctly, phase array means 3 gas ports all feeding the gas tube. Even if they're half the diameter of the typical diameter single port, it's significantly more volume of gas per unit of time, making that dwell time less critical to achieve the same pressure. Look at the big brain on Kuraki! |
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I wish someone (preferably Geissele) would just explain what it is and how it works, if nothing else it's a missed marketing opportunity on their latest gun. If I'm reading those diagrams right, it looks like they have three radial gas ports (one in the normal location and two on the sides), with channels cut in the outside of the barrel, closed/sealed by the gas block, and all three feeding the gas tube? I guess that would effectively flatten and lengthen the gas pulse a little, sort of the effect of having a longer dwell time without actually having a longer dwell time. |
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Quoted: I wish someone (preferably Geissele) would just explain what it is and how it works, if nothing else it's a missed marketing opportunity on their latest gun. If I'm reading those diagrams right, it looks like they have three radial gas ports (one in the normal location and two on the sides), with channels cut in the outside of the barrel, closed/sealed by the gas block, and all three feeding the gas tube? I guess that would effectively flatten and lengthen the gas pulse a little, sort of the effect of having a longer dwell time without actually having a longer dwell time. The ports aren't all in the same place/plane so they fire off/ fill up the gas tube sequentially. pretty cool |
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Hello Everyone, As more GFRs and GFWs are in production and MRGG is slated to release soon, Phased Array will be featured across all of these platforms. With that being said, we are happy to talk about any questions you may have but may be limited in some capacity to talk about testing for phased array. We speak about it at SHOT Show and in a few of our videos on YouTube, but phased array does an incredible job of providing the user with two key benefits. - In longer barrels like the GFR and MRGG it gives the shooter a MUCH softer recoil impulse permitting them to watch trace. As a solo shooter this is critical. - In shorter barrels like the GFW it permits you to use calibers like 5.56 and .300 Blackout and get a much more palatable recoil impulse and faster follow up shots on an 8" barrel. It is incredibly reliable. We cannot guarantee we can answer certain technical questions with phased array, but we are happy to be a part of the conversation! |
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I wonder about the amount of fouling closing off dimensions early and the effect it might have on all aspects of the design. Would or could it possibly limit the life/round count of the systems function with consideration to all the different powders and ammunition out there in the commercial market? I have seen a closed off gas key from fouling at the smallest dimension is one reason why I question the design and it's longevity or service life. The replaceable gas tube takes the ordinary 90-degree gas and any deflection but it is easily replaceable if there is a restriction of its portion of the gas system is identified as being the cause of a problem. |
| Are you all able to release testing data/photos/examples of the gas system ports and paths under the gasblock and in the gas block? I'm curious to hear about erosion/wear and any potential improvements or limitations the design may have when used for extended strings of faster paced semi-auto fire, full auto fire, or forced reset applications. Also, will you all be offering a gas block configuration that allows for adjustments for suppressed and unsuppressed? |
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Quoted: Hello Everyone, As more GFRs and GFWs are in production and MRGG is slated to release soon, Phased Array will be featured across all of these platforms. With that being said, we are happy to talk about any questions you may have but may be limited in some capacity to talk about testing for phased array. We speak about it at SHOT Show and in a few of our videos on YouTube, but phased array does in incredible job of providing the user with two key benefits. - In longer barrels like the GFR and MRGG it gives the shooter a MUCH softer recoil impulse permitting them to watch trace. As a solo shooter this is critical. - In shorter barrels like the GFW it permits you to use calibers like 5.56 and .300 Blackout and get a much more palatable recoil impulse and faster follow up shots on an 8" barrel. We cannot guarantee we can answer certain technical questions with phased array, but we are happy to be a part of the conversation! Ok but when super duty phased arrays? Maybe a +1 rifle gas length 20" 812 HBAR? |
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There are at least three things I want to say. First off, I love cool new thinking, and novel approaches to solving problems. Mankind's ingenuity is vast. Second, I am not an expert, or even qualified to comment on cool new things. Third, I tend to wait to see if "this cool new thing" will actually work, and beyond that, if it works, will it meet with commercial success. Sometimes great new ideas just don't work, and sometimes they just don't work "yet" and sometimes the market just says "Meh." Geissele has done some cool stuff. I'm a huge fan of the SSA-E (which is the only Geissele trigger I have experience with), and I still love the ALG Defense rails. If all my ARs went poof and I had to jump back into the market as it is today . . . I'd probably get a SuperDuty in 16" trim and be happy. I have more confidence in the Phase Array because it's coming out of Geissele than I would if it was coming from a company with less of a track record. To answer the OP's question, "Is the Geissele Phase Array the best AR15 gas system in existence?" I would have to say, "It could be, but it's not yet." I mean, heck, I remember the great debates as to whether mid-length gas had earned it's seat at the table. |
| Does the newer gas system allow the use of shorter barrels without wearing out bolts and other parts sooner like mk18 platforms? Or is it still beating the shit out of the operating system? The market wants smaller carbines for ample reason and i like the idea. |
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Quoted: There are at least three things I want to say. First off, I love cool new thinking, and novel approaches to solving problems. Mankind's ingenuity is vast. Second, I am not an expert, or even qualified to comment on cool new things. Third, I tend to wait to see if "this cool new thing" will actually work, and beyond that, if it works, will it meet with commercial success. Sometimes great new ideas just don't work, and sometimes they just don't work "yet" and sometimes the market just says "Meh." Geissele has done some cool stuff. I'm a huge fan of the SSA-E (which is the only Geissele trigger I have experience with), and I still love the ALG Defense rails. If all my ARs went poof and I had to jump back into the market as it is today . . . I'd probably get a SuperDuty in 16" trim and be happy. I have more confidence in the Phase Array because it's coming out of Geissele than I would if it was coming from a company with less of a track record. To answer the OP's question, "Is the Geissele Phase Array the best AR15 gas system in existence?" I would have to say, "It could be, but it's not yet." I mean, heck, I remember the great debates as to whether mid-length gas had earned it's seat at the table. Great post! Sage wisdom in fact. There will always be folks who want to be on the bleeding edge of every technology, nothing wrong with that if it's right for them. Me I prefer proven, well-tested, and stable. |
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Quoted: Does the newer gas system allow the use of shorter barrels without wearing out bolts and other parts sooner like mk18 platforms? Or is it still beating the shit out of the operating system? The market wants smaller carbines for ample reason and i like the idea. It's a great question! The Phased Array System is extremely reliable. I can see if we can disclose any numbers, but it is what provides the GFW such an advantage. With an 8" barrel, even in full-auto, we have barrels with ridiculous round counts. Again, we are limited in what we can release due to contracts, but there might be ways like posts or videos to show its capabilities. We never want our users to believe we are saying, "just trust us" but with the contracts we are winning and the performance people are seeing with platforms like the GFR, the advantages are clearly there. We know Phased Array is the future, and there are plans to feature it in more products moving forward. We may have another product announcement here soon for a standalone barrel. We love the feedback regarding what barrel lengths and profiles users want to see, so if anyone else has further feedback we love to hear it! |
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Quoted: Hello Everyone, As more GFRs and GFWs are in production and MRGG is slated to release soon, Phased Array will be featured across all of these platforms. With that being said, we are happy to talk about any questions you may have but may be limited in some capacity to talk about testing for phased array. We speak about it at SHOT Show and in a few of our videos on YouTube, but phased array does an incredible job of providing the user with two key benefits. - In longer barrels like the GFR and MRGG it gives the shooter a MUCH softer recoil impulse permitting them to watch trace. As a solo shooter this is critical. - In shorter barrels like the GFW it permits you to use calibers like 5.56 and .300 Blackout and get a much more palatable recoil impulse and faster follow up shots on an 8" barrel. It is incredibly reliable. We cannot guarantee we can answer certain technical questions with phased array, but we are happy to be a part of the conversation! Will will be seeing these on more normal 5.56 rifles in 14.5-16" barrels (super duty, URG-I etc type rifles)? I'd be very interested in that, seems like a cool concept. |
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Quoted: It's a great question! The Phased Array System is extremely reliable. I can see if we can disclose any numbers, but it is what provides the GFW such an advantage. With an 8" barrel, even in full-auto, we have barrels with ridiculous round counts. Again, we are limited in what we can release due to contracts, but there might be ways like posts or videos to show its capabilities. We never want our users to believe we are saying, "just trust us" but with the contracts we are winning and the performance people are seeing with platforms like the GFR, the advantages are clearly there. We know Phased Array is the future, and there are plans to feature it in more products moving forward. We may have another product announcement here soon for a standalone barrel. We love the feedback regarding what barrel lengths and profiles users want to see, so if anyone else has further feedback we love to hear it! @GACS I would love a video breaking this down as much as you can, contractually. From the engineering to the observed and repeatable outcomes, as well as a comparison in longevity to standard gas blocks. The more data the better! |
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We can say that this system runs both 5.56 and 6mm ARC beautifully. Running a shorter version of the barrel would be a breeze. These are things we always talk to our project teams about. We may have some 5.56 Phased Array news in the near future. Doing a deep dive on commercially available products may be something we can get approved! Things like the MRGG and difficult. Patents that were posted can be enlightening but also confusing. I appreciate everyone's patience as we run this up the flagpole. I know you all appreciate the fact that we love to engage with our community, but we have to make sure we are following the rules. |
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Quoted: We can say that this system runs both 5.56 and 6mm ARC beautifully. Running a shorter version of the barrel would be a breeze. These are things we always talk to our project teams about. We may have some 5.56 Phased Array news in the near future. Doing a deep dive on commercially available products may be something we can get approved! Things like the MRGG and difficult. Patents that were posted can be enlightening but also confusing. I appreciate everyone's patience as we run this up the flagpole. I know you all appreciate the fact that we love to engage with our community, but we have to make sure we are following the rules. I appreciate the reply. I was going to build a 6ARC but depending on how everything you guys release about this, I may have to just buy one. Love your guys' work, thanks! |
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Quoted: I appreciate the reply. I was going to build a 6ARC but depending on how everything you guys release about this, I may have to just buy one. Love your guys' work, thanks! I think you should really check out the 9-holes review on the rifle. It does a great job demonstrating the abilities the platform as a whole can give you. It was the only DMR to clear the course clean from what they said, correct us if we are wrong on that. It was nice to see how easy they were able to get back on target, phased array is a big part of that. |
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Quoted: Hello Everyone, As more GFRs and GFWs are in production and MRGG is slated to release soon, Phased Array will be featured across all of these platforms. With that being said, we are happy to talk about any questions you may have but may be limited in some capacity to talk about testing for phased array. We speak about it at SHOT Show and in a few of our videos on YouTube, but phased array does an incredible job of providing the user with two key benefits. - In longer barrels like the GFR and MRGG it gives the shooter a MUCH softer recoil impulse permitting them to watch trace. As a solo shooter this is critical. - In shorter barrels like the GFW it permits you to use calibers like 5.56 and .300 Blackout and get a much more palatable recoil impulse and faster follow up shots on an 8" barrel. It is incredibly reliable. We cannot guarantee we can answer certain technical questions with phased array, but we are happy to be a part of the conversation! Is the phase array the reason the GFW is $3000 |
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Quoted: Yeah. I’m sure that stock adds a bit to it. Quoted: Yeah. I’m sure that stock adds a bit to it. Quoted: Is the phase array the reason the GFW is $3000 How else are they going to compete with the Honey Badger or the Maxim if they sold it for 50% less? Remember the higher a product cost the better the product is! 
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Quoted: We can say that this system runs both 5.56 and 6mm ARC beautifully. Running a shorter version of the barrel would be a breeze. These are things we always talk to our project teams about. We may have some 5.56 Phased Array news in the near future. Doing a deep dive on commercially available products may be something we can get approved! Things like the MRGG and difficult. Patents that were posted can be enlightening but also confusing. I appreciate everyone's patience as we run this up the flagpole. I know you all appreciate the fact that we love to engage with our community, but we have to make sure we are following the rules. So how much bigger is this gas block going to be? Like switch block sized or maybe riflespeed sized? Will it fit under a handguard? |
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Quoted: How else are they going to compete with the Honey Badger or the Maxim if they sold it for 50% less? Remember the higher a product cost the better the product is! Although this looks to be in jest, its a good question. The GFW stock system is a well-designed and further refined stock than some peer rifles. This stock gives you a full cheek-weld at both positions and is quick to deploy. The design of the stock and nature of a custom carrier does increase costs over a normal Super Duty. This platform also features our phased array gas port system which is in a class all it's own. For short rifles like this it is head and shoulders above similar PDWs. Quoted: So how much bigger is this gas block going to be? Like switch block sized or maybe riflespeed sized? Will it fit under a handguard? The gas system not only fits underneath our MK16 handguard, but can be used with compact gas blocks like our SGB. We managed to make the system no larger than current footprints. |
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Quoted: There is also the proprietary PDW stock. Quoted: There is also the proprietary PDW stock. must be made for them by Zenitco for that price Quoted: Although this looks to be in jest, its a good question. The GFW stock system is a well-designed and further refined stock than some peer rifles. This stock gives you a full cheek-weld at both positions and is quick to deploy. The design of the stock and nature of a custom carrier does increase costs over a normal Super Duty. This platform also features our phased array gas port system which is in a class all it's own. For short rifles like this it is head and shoulders above similar PDWs. The more prudent answer is it is FAR pricing. I wonder if it was a sole source contract. |
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Do want.... |
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So do these barrels come with special gas blocks? |
Mine is invoiced and shipping label created already 
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[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Is the Geissele Phase Array the best AR15 gas system in existence? (Page 1 of 2)
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