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Posted: 3/8/2026 9:23:11 AM EDT
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I am down to my last straw. I have two ARC-fires in two different AR's. One, is a old ban era DPMS. It is a standard A2 style rifle but with a flat top upper. Rifle stock and buffer. Runs great. I swapped in a standard toolcraft BCG and a tubbs flat wire spring. I installed a G2S trigger. I got the arc fire when they were launched (I preordered). I installed it and initially could not get it running, and there was no clear instructions at the time for proper left side cuts on the trigger. I rounded it till the hammer would drop then stopped. Function was intermittent in FRT mode. Ran fine semi auto. I expressed some frustration about no clear instructions in the main ARC thread and ASD offered to look at and properly cut my trigger. I also had a 2nd SSA-E for my 2nd rifle and they agreed to cut it too. Once I got it back it ran great. Full mag dumps, ran 100%. I am using their lever blocker on both my rifles. My other rifle is a 16in rifle I built. Spikes lower, 16in barrel, mid length gas, superlative gas piston kit, H3 buffer, tubbs flat wire spring. It ran about 95%, but would have a jam every now and then. I wrote that off as it being a build and I did not have all the kinks out. It runs 100% semi auto. Fast forward and they launched the milspec levers. I had been dying for them, as the small rounded ones sucked. I started with the A2. I literally did absolutely nothing but swap the levers. Right side was easy swap. Left side I simply removed the screw, lifted out the old lever, dropped in the new one and tightened the screw. I did not remove the trigger, safety, or anything. I did not even open the upper. It now refuses to run FRT. I can not make it through one mag without 4-5 stoppages, sometimes more. Bolt is closed on a live round, dead trigger/hammer is down. I can pull the charging handle back just enough to reset the trigger then let it rechamber the round and then it can run for between 2 to 10 rounds before it does it again. I swapped the original left side lever back on, and it went back to running 100%. I tried my 16in and it was the exact same way. The new lever made it not run for shit. Same hammer down on a live round/dead trigger. Swapped back to the original lever and it went back to working how it was before. I contacted ASD asking if they had seen this issue and they said they had not. They were going to send replacement left side levers, but a member here who works for them said it might be the shafts, so they sent me those instead. I swapped them out and retested with no big change. It is intermittent, but maybe a tiny bit improved. Sometimes it is still running between 2-10 rounds before it stops, sometimes it might almost run the whole mag. They then sent me new left side levers. I tried those and still no change. I swap back to the original small/rounded lever and it does not go back to running perfectly, like it did before. I get frustrated and swap back to one of the original shafts and the original levers and it is still not running right. So now I am at a complete and total loss. I have no idea why simply swapping the safety levers caused it to stop running, and why now I can not get it running again even after swapping back. Literally absolutely nothing on the rifles have changed. NO other parts have been changed, nothing altered. They are not dirty, I clean after each range session. I am at my wits end! |
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Quoted: I am sure @ELittlefield will be along shortly to get you running. In the meanwhile, is your buffer an H3 (5.4oz with the Tungsten weights that rattle)? I wish I could help, but OP has at least as much knowledge as I do about FRTs, and consistently has bad luck with the exact setups I know about. |
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Quoted: I am down to my last straw. I have two ARC-fires in two different AR's. One, is a old ban era DPMS. It is a standard A2 style rifle but with a flat top upper. Rifle stock and buffer. Runs great. I swapped in a standard toolcraft BCG and a tubbs flat wire spring. I installed a G2S trigger. I got the arc fire when they were launched (I preordered). I installed it and initially could not get it running, and there was no clear instructions at the time for proper left side cuts on the trigger. I rounded it till the hammer would drop then stopped. Function was intermittent in FRT mode. Ran fine semi auto. I expressed some frustration about no clear instructions in the main ARC thread and ASD offered to look at and properly cut my trigger. I also had a 2nd SSA-E for my 2nd rifle and they agreed to cut it too. Once I got it back it ran great. Full mag dumps, ran 100%. I am using their lever blocker on both my rifles. My other rifle is a 16in rifle I built. Spikes lower, 16in barrel, mid length gas, superlative gas piston kit, H3 buffer, tubbs flat wire spring. It ran about 95%, but would have a jam every now and then. I wrote that off as it being a build and I did not have all the kinks out. It runs 100% semi auto. Fast forward and they launched the milspec levers. I had been dying for them, as the small rounded ones sucked. I started with the A2. I literally did absolutely nothing but swap the levers. Right side was easy swap. Left side I simply removed the screw, lifted out the old lever, dropped in the new one and tightened the screw. I did not remove the trigger, safety, or anything. I did not even open the upper. It now refuses to run FRT. I can not make it through one mag without 4-5 stoppages, sometimes more. Bolt is closed on a live round, dead trigger/hammer is down. I can pull the charging handle back just enough to reset the trigger then let it rechamber the round and then it can run for between 2 to 10 rounds before it does it again. I swapped the original left side lever back on, and it went back to running 100%. I tried my 16in and it was the exact same way. The new lever made it not run for shit. Same hammer down on a live round/dead trigger. Swapped back to the original lever and it went back to working how it was before. I contacted ASD asking if they had seen this issue and they said they had not. They were going to send replacement left side levers, but a member here who works for them said it might be the shafts, so they sent me those instead. I swapped them out and retested with no big change. It is intermittent, but maybe a tiny bit improved. Sometimes it is still running between 2-10 rounds before it stops, sometimes it might almost run the whole mag. They then sent me new left side levers. I tried those and still no change. I swap back to the original small/rounded lever and it does not go back to running perfectly, like it did before. I get frustrated and swap back to one of the original shafts and the original levers and it is still not running right. So now I am at a complete and total loss. I have no idea why simply swapping the safety levers caused it to stop running, and why now I can not get it running again even after swapping back. Literally absolutely nothing on the rifles have changed. NO other parts have been changed, nothing altered. They are not dirty, I clean after each range session. I am at my wits end! What happens when you reinstall the old levers? Does it restore function? |
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From your description of the issue, I would uninstall the trigger mechanism, then reinstall the trigger and original safety, then slowly work at fault isolation, changing only one component at a time. Take good notes. You could also try another lower receiver if you have one. |
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How well did you lube the arc-fire? Also, when you tighten the screws on either side of the lever , do you work back and forth while tightening to avoid over tightening? I also prime the hammer and work each lever to its full rotation while tightening to ensure it’s not causing a weird lockup. I’ve ran into a few that wanted to lock up and cease function until worked through slowly. |
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Quoted: I am sure @ELittlefield will be along shortly to get you running. In the meanwhile, is your buffer an H3 (5.4oz with the Tungsten weights that rattle)? Quoted: I am sure @ELittlefield will be along shortly to get you running. In the meanwhile, is your buffer an H3 (5.4oz with the Tungsten weights that rattle)? The 16in gun has the H3 buffer with tungsten weights that rattle. I made the buffer myself with tungsten weights I bought. The 20in has a standard rifle buffer tube/stock and buffer. It is much longer than carbine buffers and has all steel weights that rattle, and it weighs somewhere around 5.2 to 5.3 ounces. Quoted: What happens when you reinstall the old levers? Does it restore function? Re read my post, I covered this. Quoted: From your description of the issue, I would uninstall the trigger mechanism, then reinstall the trigger and original safety, then slowly work at fault isolation, changing only one component at a time. Take good notes. You could also try another lower receiver if you have one. I do not think it is related to the lower, as this is happening on two completely different brands of receivers. My spikes lower on my 16in carbine is probably 10 years old. The 20in rifle DPMS was made during the ban, so somewhere between 1994 and 2004. |
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Quoted: How well did you lube the arc-fire? Also, when you tighten the screws on either side of the lever , do you work back and forth while tightening to avoid over tightening? I also prime the hammer and work each lever to its full rotation while tightening to ensure it’s not causing a weird lockup. I’ve ran into a few that wanted to lock up and cease function until worked through slowly. Everything is well lubed. Oil and even a little dab of gun grease on the moving parts. I made sure I tightened the screw in steps and made sure the safety levers move freely. The trip lever also moves freely. I have seen mention of a test about holding the hammer down and moving the lever through its arc to check for binding and it passes this test on both rifles. |
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Measure both with calipers (original and replacement) and see if there is a difference From a buried Facebook post: Tolerance.676-.680  When mine failed the shaft was .700 and .693 respectively Install shim  If you want to you can send me a shaft and I’ve got tons of spare selectors (from upgrading to mil spec) I can try for you and if it works I’ll send them your way for free. Just tossing that out there. |
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Quoted: Do you still have the original shafts? Quoted: Do you still have the original shafts? Yes. Quote from my original post: Quoted: I swap back to the original small/rounded lever and it does not go back to running perfectly, like it did before. I get frustrated and swap back to one of the original shafts and the original levers and it is still not running right. So now I am at a complete and total loss. It seems like there was one magical combination of parts that worked, then once I swapped shafts, I lost the combination and now I can not get it back working at all, even with the old parts. Again, NOTHING on the rifles changed. The triggers were cut/modded by ASD, so I would assume they are correct. If I could go back in time I would tell myself to not touch it and live with the crappy rounded levers, because it at least worked perfectly back then. All I wanted was milspec levers 
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If you have the Long/Short levers I'll take them.  Quoted: Yes. Quote from my original post: It seems like there was one magical combination of parts that worked, then once I swapped shafts, I lost the combination and now I can not get it back working at all, even with the old parts. Again, NOTHING on the rifles changed. The triggers were cut/modded by ASD, so I would assume they are correct. If I could go back in time I would tell myself to not touch it and live with the crappy rounded levers, because it at least worked perfectly back then. All I wanted was milspec levers |
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Quoted: Measure both with calipers (original and replacement) and see if there is a difference From a buried Facebook post: Tolerance.676-.680 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/99571/IMG_9157-3730466.jpg When mine failed the shaft was .700 and .693 respectively Install shim https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/99571/IMG_8206-3718169.jpg If you want to you can send me a shaft and I’ve got tons of spare selectors (from upgrading to mil spec) I can try for you and if it works I’ll send them your way for free. Just tossing that out there. The best I can measure with my calipers, and it may be off a few thousandths as I am trying my best to hold them straight and steady. Old shaft, .687 New shaft, .682 |
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I had almost forgot I had taken pictures of my triggers that they cut for me. Well one I had cut the right side, and rounded the corner of the left, but it still did not work, so I sent it and a un cut SSA-E and they cut/modded both and sent them back after testing. The first two pictures are of the G2S I originally cut, and then they finished for me. The 2nd two pictures are a SSA-E that was unmodified when I sent it.   The SSA-E they cut   Now the same cutting jig with a unmodified SSA in it.  After seeing all the new people using these and the small amount of rounded that is needed to just the corner, could they have over cut my triggers?? |
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Holy hell, that is a butchered cut job they did. I will say that's the first jig I've seen that does a decently accurate job of indicating how little material really needs to be removed from a G trigger -- i.e. practically none. ETA: Based on the photos of the triggers, I suspect the left side was just on the edge of too much material removed, and just happened to work with the very specific tolerance stack of that original lever. With a little use, it may have removed the tiniest amount that pushed it over the edge into non-functional, regardless of the lever. |
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Quoted: Yeesh That looks a bit off Take your calipers and measure the end of the left side and the midpoint of the left side. Should be .300 at end and.310 at midpoint. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/99571/IMG_9783-3701685.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/99571/IMG_9782-3701684.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/99571/IMG_9788-3701707.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/99571/IMG_9787-3701706.jpg Yea that is exactly how I received them from ASD, I did nothing else to them after getting them back. I will be too busy in the afternoons this week to be able to pull them apart, but I should have time to this weekend. I will update when I get them out and can measure. |
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Quoted: Holy hell, that is a butchered cut job they did. I will say that's the first jig I've seen that does a decently accurate job of indicating how little material really needs to be removed from a G trigger -- i.e. practically none. ETA: Based on the photos of the triggers, I suspect the left side was just on the edge of too much material removed, and just happened to work with the very specific tolerance stack of that original lever. With a little use, it may have removed the tiniest amount that pushed it over the edge into non-functional, regardless of the lever. I am starting to wonder that myself. The original combo of parts worked, but after swapping the levers, I lost that tolerance stack and now can not find that magic combination again. I do have two more unmodified SSA's I got from primary arms on sale (blem models) that I was going to use in two other AR's, but have not done it yet. I was waiting for the milspec levers to come out first. But then these stopped working after swapping to the milspec levers and buying any more of them is now on hold till I get them working again. I may have to break out one of the new SSA's and start from scratch and see if it works (and works with the milspec levers). If it does, then I will know the triggers they modded are the issue. If not, then I will be back at a loss. |
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Quoted: How in the hell did levers that are bolt-on parts to BOTH sides of the barrel change anything to do with function on the setup? These should have no affect on operation if installed correctly. Look at the picture in post #9. The left side selector controls the part in green, which controls the lever in red. The right side lever is just bolt on to the shaft and would have no effect at all. All the control part of it is with the left side lever. |
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@jeeps-and-guns, Your dilemna reminds me of the first time I did spark plug wires. Box of new wires - check. Rip out the installed wires - check. Oh crap, exclaimed when I look at a bare distributor cap and try to remember what does where. So, any chance you dissasembled and found yourself holding a shaft in an unknown orientation? Then when you installed accidentally got one, then both sides installed 180 deg off from the proper positioning on the shaft? I haven't baby stepped the Arc to figure how the cams operate. But if you do this, you may find your issue. You probably did the levers 1 at a time with the safety installed so all you had to match was lever orientation. Least you can laugh at the whipersnapper that needed a firing order decades pre internet that had to walk to a friends house with paper and pen. Friend drove me back and I got the wires sorted quick fast like. |
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Ok, so I removed the trigger that ASD modded out of the A2/20in rifle. I grabbed one of my unmodded SSA's I got from primary arms on sale (blem). I cut the right side and then test fit. Hammer will not drop. I did a tiny bit of rounding on the left and test. I have to squeeze really hard to drop the hammer. I take it back out, round it just a tiny bit more and test. It seems to feel normal now. I reassemble everything and it is bench testing fine. Going to give it a try tomorrow afternoon and see what happens. |
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Quoted: Ok, so I removed the trigger that ASD modded out of the A2/20in rifle. I grabbed one of my unmodded SSA's I got from primary arms on sale (blem). I cut the right side and then test fit. Hammer will not drop. I did a tiny bit of rounding on the left and test. I have to squeeze really hard to drop the hammer. I take it back out, round it just a tiny bit more and test. It seems to feel normal now. I reassemble everything and it is bench testing fine. Going to give it a try tomorrow afternoon and see what happens. If it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting a pic or two of the trigger you cut comparing it to the one you got from ASD, please? Inquiring minds and all. |
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Tried it out. Fail. Same as before with the trigger that they modified. Runs perfectly in semi auto and I can run it as fast as I can pull the trigger and dump a whole mag, but once I switch to forced reset I can get anywhere from 1 shot to 5-6 before it stops. Dead trigger, hammer is down, live round in the chamber. I decided to check the rounds. I put one in the chamber and close the bolt using the bolt release. I eject it and note the tiny little mark from the firing pin. I attempt to shoot it on FRT mode and when it stops, I eject the round and inspect the primer. It looks pretty much identical to how the one looks that was simply chambered. I think I must be getting hammer follow. So tonight I decided to do some parts swapping. I have a rare breed FRT15-L3 in a 9mm carbine. I take that trigger out and put it in this 20in rifle. It bench tests fine. If it runs with the RB trigger, then I know the issue is the ARC. If it does the same thing, then I know something has happened to the gun. I then decide to take the trigger ASD modded, and the arc, and I put them into my DPMS G2 308. It bench tests fine. Not really sure if I am ready to ride that lightening or not, but if it runs, then I know the trigger/arc are ok. If it does the same as the other rifle, then I will try the trigger I modded and retest. Hopefully I can test this next weekend. |
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The AR15 bolt uses a floating firing pin. So anytime you chamber a round the firing pin will leave a tiny mark on the primer. This is another reason that military ammo uses hardened primers. If you suspect hammer follow, you can test immediately by trying to out the gun on safe. If it resists, the hammer is down. I wish you lived closer so I could help. |
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Quoted: The AR15 bolt uses a floating firing pin. So anytime you chamber a round the firing pin will leave a tiny mark on the primer. This is another reason that military ammo uses hardened primers. If you suspect hammer follow, you can test immediately by trying to out the gun on safe. If it resists, the hammer is down. I wish you lived closer so I could help. Yea I knew about the tiny mark the firing pin leaves on rounds. That is why I wanted to get a chambered round and make a mark on it, then eject one of the ones when it stops in frt mode to compare. That way if the mark/dent is deeper, then I would know I am getting a light strike, and is not just the normal floating firing pin mark. In this case the marks were identical, which makes me believe hammer follow and not a light strike. Hammer follow is my current best guess as to what might be happening. The hammer is down when it stops. I confirmed when it first started happening by opening up the gun and looking. Now if that is the issue, how do I fix it. Could the arc be releasing the hammer too soon? I'm not going to say nothing is wrong with the gun/upper, but I really feel like that everything is good, and I know nothing mechanically has been changed on the gun (no parts swapped or replaced), it is clean and maintained, and runs perfectly on semi. |
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Quoted: Who makes the upper and lower, and how old are they? I know it's a rifle length with a rifle buffer, but does the buffer rattle when shaken? Also, do you have access to a carbine type lower with an H2 or H3 sliding weight type buffer? I actually have two non functional ARC-fires. Right now I am focusing on just one rifle, trying to diagnose and got it running, then I will move on to the other one. The one I am focused on right now is a DPMS factory built rifle. It was made back during the ban era as it has no bayo lug and did not have a threaded muzzle. So best I can narrow down for age is between 1994 and 2004. Rifle length stock, buffer tube, buffer that does rattle as it has the 5 steel weights, making it weigh a little over 5 ounces. I have a tubbs flat wire buffer spring in it. I swapped out the original neutered BCG for a toolcraft full mass/standard BCG. I also threaded the barrel for a muzzle brake. The other rifle I have is a 16in carbine I built using spikes tactical upper/lower. It has a carbine stock/buffer tube and H3 buffer. But it too has issues with the ARC. But like said, I am focusing on just the one right now. |
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Quoted: I actually have two non functional ARC-fires. Right now I am focusing on just one rifle, trying to diagnose and got it running, then I will move on to the other one. The one I am focused on right now is a DPMS factory built rifle. It was made back during the ban era as it has no bayo lug and did not have a threaded muzzle. So best I can narrow down for age is between 1994 and 2004. Rifle length stock, buffer tube, buffer that does rattle as it has the 5 steel weights, making it weigh a little over 5 ounces. I have a tubbs flat wire buffer spring in it. I swapped out the original neutered BCG for a toolcraft full mass/standard BCG. I also threaded the barrel for a muzzle brake. The other rifle I have is a 16in carbine I built using spikes tactical upper/lower. It has a carbine stock/buffer tube and H3 buffer. But it too has issues with the ARC. But like said, I am focusing on just the one right now. I was approaching the problem from a hammer follow perspective. With the assumption that you are getting bolt bounce as a reason for it. Sorry if you have already answered this and tried it, but what happens if you swap uppers between the two rifles? With your newly cut Geissele I mean. Do you still get hammer follow? |
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Quoted: Your new shaft measured 0.682 which is out of tolerance. I don’t know if those 2/1000ths is enough to cause your issue. Wonder if anyone from ASD would chime in on that? If so a shim might fix it Anyone that bought a pack of those shims have any left? I'm willing to try them at this point. |
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I do know that my Arc Fire releases the hammer much “earlier” than my Cornfire MARC does. I purchased an Arc Fire to see if it would work with the Bore Buddy Super Safety trip. It wouldn’t. Bore Buddy sells a trip specifically for the Arc Fire that also comes with the “shim”(same one y’all are discussing) to “re-time” the hammer. I decided to hold off ordering the kit for now since both of my setups run well. The Arc Fire sits in my parts bin for now. Edited to add: I measured mine out of curiosity when I found that it wouldn’t work. The tolerance was within spec. So I guess the shim is still needed for 22lr setup regardless if the part is in spec or not. |
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Quoted: If it's not too much trouble, would you mind posting a pic or two of the trigger you cut comparing it to the one you got from ASD, please? Inquiring minds and all. Sorry, I almost forgot this post. Here are the ASD modded trigger and the one I cut/rounded myself. ASD on the top, mine on the bottom.  ASD on the left, mine on the right.  Also note that this was done by them before they started offering pre cut G triggers on their site. This was done not long after they first started shipping and people started getting them. |
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Quick question, say you do shave off a bit to much and modify the right side to the arch cut can you still use these modified triggers in non SS semi-automatic setups without issue? I just checked my rounded left side with calipers and Im at .292 on both of mine. Wish I would have seen this thread earlier |
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Quoted: Have you tried going back to ALL original parts including the original trigger supplied with the Arc Fire kit? I would start there. Generally this is the best thing to do when diagnosing firearms issues that are not readily apparent as to what the problem is… |
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Quoted: Quick question, say you do shave off a bit to much and modify the right side to the arch cut can you still use these modified triggers in non SS semi-automatic setups without issue? I just checked my rounded left side with calipers and Im at .292 on both of mine. Wish I would have seen this thread earlier I believe the answer is “yes” as several have reported. |
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I have a unit that I cannot get to work. I have one that runs perfect but this one I just can’t figure out. Semi works fine, FRT mode sometimes works for 2-3 rounds, sometimes frt mode only shoots semi. I have a proper H3 buffer installed. I’ve tried a known good geissele, two different AS Designs stock triggers. I’ve taken the good unit out of my other gun and it runs fine in this lower with any of the three triggers I put in it. I’ve swapped uppers and the problem stays with whichever lower this safety is installed in. ASD has been useless. When I installed the Mil-Spec levers in the working gun, it stopped working. I added the shim and it’s running again. |
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Quoted: Very interesting. I can toss a couple in an envelope and mail them to you if you’d like but it would probably be faster ordering them direct. McMaster |
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Quoted: I can toss a couple in an envelope and mail them to you if you’d like but it would probably be faster ordering them direct. McMaster Yea I think I will just order some pending the results of my testing this afternoon. |
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Ok, tested it out with the rare breed FRT15-L3. I am getting the same issue, though not as often as I did with the arc. It randomly stops running, dead trigger, hammer is down on a live round. So this more or less eliminates the trigger as the issue, since it is doing the same thing with two completely different triggers. Now the question is WHAT is going on with the rifle? It was running perfectly till I swapped the selectors, but could this issue just coincidentally have started at the same time I swapped selectors, or was it at the ragged edge of running before, and it just finally went over the edge. Just to reiterate: Ban era DPMS, 20in A2 barrel, rifle stock, buffer tube, and buffer. Tubbs flat wire buffer spring. I replaced the original semi auto/neutered BGC with a toolcraft full mass/standard (FA) BCG. I removed the barrel and threaded the muzzle (since it was not threaded from the factory). But nothing else has been touched on the barrel. Still the factory FSB (with no bayo lug) and original gas tube.  Again, it runs perfectly on semi auto and never fails to lock back on a empty mag. So I am just at a loss as to what it could be. I also tested the DPMS G2 308. I installed the G trigger that was cut by asd, and the arc out of the above rifle. Ran fine on semi auto. I ran 10 rounds semi then switched to frt. It ran those but failed to lock back on the empty mag. ROF was kinda slow. I tried another mag and had 1 jam, possibly a short stroke, and failed to lock back on a empty mag. It had been running fine semi auto before. So since I had a adjustable gas block on it, I opened it 3 clicks and tried again. ROF went up a little, but it fucking RIPPED! Holy shit that thing came to life. Full mag dump and lock back on the empty mag. I was actually really surprised at the controllability of it. I figured it was going to be all over the place, but I was able to keep it down and controlled way better than I was expecting. So it seems the arc and the G trigger that asd cut are not a issue, as it runs in the 308 just fine. So much, I am going to leave it in there. 
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Quoted: Have you tried going to a standard rifle stock spring in place of the flat wire spring? At this point I will try about anything. I should have a standard rifle spring around here somewhere. For some stupid reason the previous owner had a carbine stock on this rifle, so since I did not have the original spring, I just ordered one of the flat wire springs when I ordered the rifle buffer and tube. I already had the stock. Could this thing be slightly under gassed? |
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Quoted: At this point I will try about anything. I should have a standard rifle spring around here somewhere. For some stupid reason the previous owner had a carbine stock on this rifle, so since I did not have the original spring, I just ordered one of the flat wire springs when I ordered the rifle buffer and tube. I already had the stock. Could this thing be slightly under gassed? |
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