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Posted: 12/17/2025 5:27:49 PM EDT
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I had read a few threads on here and other forums about Geissele not using forged Carpenter 158+ bolts in the super duty anymore. If you look at their website, they mysteriously removed the bolt material from the description and specifications section for the Super Duty, and only lists the bolt material as the “stress proof” bolt. If you look at the stress proof bolt as a standalone item, they still list it as being forged, but also don’t list the material. Other websites still say forged bolts, but some list the material as “Carpenter 465” instead of 158+. I ended up emailing Geissele to see if they would answer, and they confirmed that the current production Super Duty is now using billet carpenter 158 bolts, and not forged carpenter 158+ bolts which are still being used in the GFR and MRGG lines. Apparently the forged bolts are still available with the REBCG, but they are all listed as the “stress proof bolt” but there appears to be some sort of error or confusion in what’s being put on the site. Very disappointing to hear, since as an owner, it’s one of the major reasons to justify the cost over others. Below is the response I got from Geissele: “Thank you for contacting Geissele, and sincere apologies for the delayed response as we've been stretched pretty thin in CS! For our current production Super Duties, we use nanoweapon coated billet bolts made from Carpenter 158. These Geissele billet bolts still exceed 40,000 rounds on our tester, and are above and beyond a mil-spec bolt due to our proprietary heat-treatment and process. These are also used in our Border Patrol rifles, which underwent exhaustive high-cycle round testing. These billet bolts surpass expectations for performance and reliability, and we have extreme confidence putting them at the heart of our Super Duty platforms. We will still use our forged Carpenter 158+ bolts where it makes more sense, like in our GFR and MRGG lines, and still have them available to purchase separately with the REBCG. I hope this answers your question, but please let me know if I can provide any other information or assistance!” |
| That was one of the major selling points of the rifle. They were (still are) significantly more expensive because they were forged and were several times stronger than milspec bolts, and lasted much longer. They mysteriously swapped them for regular bolts instead of forged bolts from a proprietary steel. |
| The forged bolts from proprietary steel was one of the main selling points for me, and one of the main ways to differentiate and justify the price. Doing this, not announcing it or even saying so on the site, and still increasing prices is disappointing for sure |
| I would agree, and I think that was one of the ways to justify the added cost. If they go with regular milspec 158 bolts with a fancy coating, then so do a ton of other companies. Being forged from stronger steel was the selling point. Being very sly and removing that from the site and hoping nobody would notice is disappointing |
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As a huge G fan, that is unfortunate. I did notice they had scrubbed the website of virtually any reference to C158+ and figured that couldn't be an accident. I'm sure a nanoweapon coated standard bolt is still great, and they just went to a proprietary ambi lower with little or no increase in cost, so I guess they have to make it up somewhere. It would be nice if they would fully clarify what is what in all the descriptions and still make the C158+ readily available for those that want them. |
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I went and read the website myself. While the language about "C 158+" metal is now gone, each webpage for both the bolt and REBCG still says they are "forged." The description under the Super Duty rifles uses the same titles for the bolts as their component webpages also, which to any reasonable person would imply the bolts are still forged, although perhaps from the "lesser," mil-spec C158. |
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Quoted: I went and read the website myself. While the language about "C 158+" metal is now gone, each webpage for both the bolt and REBCG still says they are "forged." The description under the Super Duty rifles uses the same titles for the bolts as their component webpages also, which to any reasonable person would imply the bolts are still forged, although perhaps from the "lesser," mil-spec C158. |
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G response on Reddit earlier today: ? Geissele-Automatics 3h ago Hello everyone, when we saw this we were extremely concerned. We saw the feedback from last year and absolutely adjusted course on making sure the REBCG stayed FORGED C158+ for our entire lineup. The cut bolts never went into commercial production. We immediately spoke to our leadership this evening to ensure there was no change and all prior and current production SDs have forged C158+. This leaves two very important questions: Why doesn’t the website reflect this? Why did our CS team state the contrary? In full transparency it was a terrible lapse in communication. We immediately spoke with our CS rep to correct the situation (OP we will be sure to follow up) and will have further training as a team to make sure the correct information reaches our users. We are also meeting with our web team to make sure the website accurately reflects the true specs of our rifles. Our sincere apologies again. I know we are not as active on Reddit as we would like to be, but we are going to follow the post, answer any questions you may have, and update everyone once we have information/action on the website. |
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Quoted: G response on Reddit earlier today: ? Geissele-Automatics 3h ago Hello everyone, when we saw this we were extremely concerned. We saw the feedback from last year and absolutely adjusted course on making sure the REBCG stayed FORGED C158+ for our entire lineup. The cut bolts never went into commercial production. We immediately spoke to our leadership this evening to ensure there was no change and all prior and current production SDs have forged C158+. This leaves two very important questions: Why doesn’t the website reflect this? Why did our CS team state the contrary? In full transparency it was a terrible lapse in communication. We immediately spoke with our CS rep to correct the situation (OP we will be sure to follow up) and will have further training as a team to make sure the correct information reaches our users. We are also meeting with our web team to make sure the website accurately reflects the true specs of our rifles. Our sincere apologies again. I know we are not as active on Reddit as we would like to be, but we are going to follow the post, answer any questions you may have, and update everyone once we have information/action on the website. That’s good news. Thinking back now I thought I remember them reversing this. Vaguely recall the Border Patrol and El Jefe having billet non REBCG’s though. |
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Quoted: G response on Reddit earlier today: ? Geissele-Automatics 3h ago Hello everyone, when we saw this we were extremely concerned. We saw the feedback from last year and absolutely adjusted course on making sure the REBCG stayed FORGED C158+ for our entire lineup. The cut bolts never went into commercial production. We immediately spoke to our leadership this evening to ensure there was no change and all prior and current production SDs have forged C158+. This leaves two very important questions: Why doesn’t the website reflect this? Why did our CS team state the contrary? In full transparency it was a terrible lapse in communication. We immediately spoke with our CS rep to correct the situation (OP we will be sure to follow up) and will have further training as a team to make sure the correct information reaches our users. We are also meeting with our web team to make sure the website accurately reflects the true specs of our rifles. Our sincere apologies again. I know we are not as active on Reddit as we would like to be, but we are going to follow the post, answer any questions you may have, and update everyone once we have information/action on the website. That's great but why is it written in a way that sounds like no one there knows what is going on? I imagine Geissele is a big company but I doubt it is so large that they would somehow have wrong information printed on their official sources and sites? |
| Already stated above, but they replied to the post and addressed it head on which was definitely appreciated. All bolts past and present are still forged 158+. Good to know they listen and respond the way they did, and the website should be updated to reflect that. |
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Quoted: That's great but why is it written in a way that sounds like no one there knows what is going on? I imagine Geissele is a big company but I doubt it is so large that they would somehow have wrong information printed on their official sources and sites? We understand your point entirely. We take great pride in our communication and customer service. This fell short of that standard, and we will improve moving forward. The moment we saw this pop up on Reddit yesterday we immediately spoke with our team and addressed any comments and personal messages that were sent. Understandably users were concerned, but rest assured all current and past production Super Duty rifles will feature REBCGs with Forged C158+ bolts. |
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Quoted: That's great but why is it written in a way that sounds like no one there knows what is going on? I imagine Geissele is a big company but I doubt it is so large that they would somehow have wrong information printed on their official sources and sites? I'm 100% assuming here but I would guess that it's just that not all CS reps and whoever does the website/IT stuff just aren't gun people. Not to insult CS reps (I could be completely wrong here), but some probably just aren't that up to speed on what all these parts and materials are and so simple mistakes get made. Kind of like if you called a car dealership to ask what motor oil their service department used and the girl said "0w-30" or "conventional 0w-20" mistakingly instead of synthetic 0w-20. She probably hears 5w-30, 0w-20, 0w-16 in the background all day and doesn't know enough to not make a simple mistake. Not the best example, but I think you get my point. I'm not saying that's a good excuse, but I think it's a combination of a little miscommunication between departments and just not knowing enough of the small details about the products themselves that creates innocent mistakes. |
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Quoted: We understand your point entirely. We take great pride in our communication and customer service. This fell short of that standard, and we will improve moving forward. The moment we saw this pop up on Reddit yesterday we immediately spoke with our team and addressed any comments and personal messages that were sent. Understandably users were concerned, but rest assured all current and past production Super Duty rifles will feature REBCGs with Forged C158+ bolts. Quoted: Quoted: That's great but why is it written in a way that sounds like no one there knows what is going on? I imagine Geissele is a big company but I doubt it is so large that they would somehow have wrong information printed on their official sources and sites? We understand your point entirely. We take great pride in our communication and customer service. This fell short of that standard, and we will improve moving forward. The moment we saw this pop up on Reddit yesterday we immediately spoke with our team and addressed any comments and personal messages that were sent. Understandably users were concerned, but rest assured all current and past production Super Duty rifles will feature REBCGs with Forged C158+ bolts. THIS...is how you deal with a problem. answer the question straight on and quickly. Some companies have forgotten how to do business. This will keep G on my list of my likely next rifle. |
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Quoted: Cool, the whiny gun community found something else to complain about. Somewhere along the way to putting $20,000 worth of ammo through my gun, I’m probably going to drop a few hundred on a bolt and a few other parts. Maybe they forgot we like Geissele now. |
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Quoted: Stupid ass decision. Reduce quality but maintain same pricing? Sometimes that's one of the choices you have to make as a manufacturer. Do you reduce quality slightly and charge the same price, or do you maintain quality and increase the price? Not always an easy decision, but employees do expect raises every year to at least match inflation, prices of materials do go up most every year, prices of your outside suppliers also go up most every year as they also have to make the same decision for their business. It's called being a businessman, and getting decisions like these correct every year is the difference between a profitable business and bankruptcy. |
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Quoted: Yeah, their crappy bolts are only good for 40,000 rounds. Somewhere along the way to putting $20,000 worth of ammo through my gun, I’m probably going to drop a few hundred on a bolt and a few other parts. Maybe they forgot we like Geissele now. Quoted: Quoted: Cool, the whiny gun community found something else to complain about. Somewhere along the way to putting $20,000 worth of ammo through my gun, I’m probably going to drop a few hundred on a bolt and a few other parts. Maybe they forgot we like Geissele now. I used to love when customers talked to me about wearing guns out when they were lucky to shoot 1000 rounds a year. |
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Quoted: Sometimes that's one of the choices you have to make as a manufacturer. Do you reduce quality slightly and charge the same price, or do you maintain quality and increase the price? Not always an easy decision, but employees do expect raises every year to at least match inflation, prices of materials do go up most every year, prices of your outside suppliers also go up most every year as they also have to make the same decision for their business. It's called being a businessman, and getting decisions like these correct every year is the difference between a profitable business and bankruptcy. This. Unfortunately with the thingy called inflation, it devalues the dollar too. So as the price of the finished product appears to remain fixed, it’s actually getting cheaper for the consumer. It’s kinda like investing in reverse…it appears to be worth more, but it’s cheaper. So now that the pushback from the internets has made them claim to put the super-duper BCG back, rest assured, they found other cost reducing solutions that won’t be noticed by others that likely don’t shoot much. At some point they will increase the price in order to make up for increased costs and inflation. Stupid crummy capitalism anyway. As an aside, are there any documented examples citing these bolts, rifles , etc. being run to failure that can be linked here? I’m thinking not, but I’m interested to learn if there are. If a guy is running one of these to failure, he probably doesn’t have much time or inclination to be an active poster here or anywhere else though. 
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We just want to make sure there is 100% clarity and avoid any confusion on this topic for our customers. The original response from our Customer Service team was not correct, and we never made any changes to the materials or construction of our Stressproof Bolts (both for Super Duty platform and REBCG’s sold separately). They are indeed Forged from Carpenter 158+, which we have found in our testing to be far superior in durability. TO BE CLEAR: No Super Duty (firearm or upper) or Reliability Enhanced BCG has EVER left the Geissele shop with anything else than a Forged 158+ Stressproof Bolt. Our CS team works VERY hard to provide the best service and support to our customers, but people are human and mistakes do happen. That said, we never want to compromise our quality or standards, so please rest assured that our Stressproof bolts have been and will continue to be forged from Carpenter 158+ to provide the best quality to our customers. Apologies to everyone for any confusion, and thanks to OP for giving us the opportunity to clarify this with everyone! |
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Quoted: We just want to make sure there is 100% clarity and avoid any confusion on this topic for our customers. The original response from our Customer Service team was not correct, and we never made any changes to the materials or construction of our Stressproof Bolts (both for Super Duty platform and REBCG's sold separately). They are indeed Forged from Carpenter 158+, which we have found in our testing to be far superior in durability. TO BE CLEAR: No Super Duty (firearm or upper) or Reliability Enhanced BCG has EVER left the Geissele shop with anything else than a Forged 158+ Stressproof Bolt. Our CS team works VERY hard to provide the best service and support to our customers, but people are human and mistakes do happen. That said, we never want to compromise our quality or standards, so please rest assured that our Stressproof bolts have been and will continue to be forged from Carpenter 158+ to provide the best quality to our customers. Apologies to everyone for any confusion, and thanks to OP for giving us the opportunity to clarify this with everyone! ETA: just looked through my orders and G sold it as a Nano Enhanced Mil Spec Bolt Carrier Group, 5.56mm - BLEM. I've seen people selling them on tacswap and maybe the EE here as full on BLEM REBCG's |
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Quoted: We just want to make sure there is 100% clarity and avoid any confusion on this topic for our customers. The original response from our Customer Service team was not correct, and we never made any changes to the materials or construction of our Stressproof Bolts (both for Super Duty platform and REBCG’s sold separately). They are indeed Forged from Carpenter 158+, which we have found in our testing to be far superior in durability. TO BE CLEAR: No Super Duty (firearm or upper) or Reliability Enhanced BCG has EVER left the Geissele shop with anything else than a Forged 158+ Stressproof Bolt. Our CS team works VERY hard to provide the best service and support to our customers, but people are human and mistakes do happen. That said, we never want to compromise our quality or standards, so please rest assured that our Stressproof bolts have been and will continue to be forged from Carpenter 158+ to provide the best quality to our customers. Apologies to everyone for any confusion, and thanks to OP for giving us the opportunity to clarify this with everyone! Excellent. Of everything I've owned, Geissele Super Duty is the best Since I've been buying them, the street price in absolute dollars has gone lower (getting one for $1500 then was unheard of; now it isn't that hard), AND inflation as been in full gear, so to say they have got more expensive, etc, is totally false. It would be nice to clarify descriptions on the website and add back the C158+ language, as that seems to be the root of it every time this question comes up... which makes sense. |
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40,000 rounds on the billet bolt is still quite good. It would take something like $17,000 worth of ammo to make it to that point. Not to mention a barrel or 3. I just buy quality bolts and keep a quality spare with me. Beings that I've yet to break a bolt, it really doesn't make a difference to me. ETA: I should have continued reading, looks like @KILLERB6 beat me to the point. |
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Quoted: Big G$ fan, but a reduction in materials should always be accompanied by a reduction in cost. No exceptions. I'm going to come across as a fan boy here, and I kind of am. I do really like their products. But it doesn't always work that way. The cost of everything continues to go up. Sometimes you reduce the cost of material to continue providing a product at the same price. |
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I love high end quality products, when possible I try to buy the very best out there. But a lot of times those products cost more than I'm willing to spend so I end up with something that's somewhere in the middle. But I'm curious, of those who were upset about this, who's come close to putting 40,000 rounds through a single rifle? |
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