AR Sponsor
Posted: 3/2/2010 5:28:59 AM EDT
|
Like everyone else, I've heard the BS stories from experts of how removing the buffer will perform all kinds of mystical feats (i.e., function full auto, increase cycle rate, function better, etc.). I'm also under the impression that E. Stoner was a pretty smart fellow & most likely put a lot of thought into the process of AR function.
Because I am not willing to tear up my gear for the sake of an experiment and think the buffer appears to be critical for proper function, I ask here, What really will happen if someone removed the buffer & fired their AR? I'm under the impression that you would be bashing the BC into the rear of the recoil tube on a crushed spring causing several things, 1) damage to the recoil tube 2) destroying the unguided recoil spring 3) damaging the BC as it no longer has bumper behind it 4) increasing felt recoil as the un-buffered/high velocity bolt slams into your shoulder 5) lots of failure to feed issues because the bolt no longer has the additional mass for closing on a round. 6) damage to all kinds of parts as the un-buffered BC attempts to actually enter the recoil tube rather than be stopped by the buffer. I'm confident that someone in here actually has seen it done or has done it themselves. Even if accidently. MLG |
|
Pure curiousity on my part from hearing (movies and idiots at gunshows, no less) how the rifle would work "better" without the buffer.
Seeing that Murphy really does rule the world (especially the military world), I'm confident that it has been done & am curious as to what would happen. MLG I kinda figured it would be easier/less painful to ask rather than try it myself. |
|
I think this is one of those old wife's tales - now taken over by the internet commandos - similar to "All you have to do to make a machine gun is to file a little off that one part" bravo sierra.
The function of the buffer is as follows: Inside the buffer there is a sliding weight. Upon firing, as the bolt and carrier reaches the back end of its travel and has the buffer spring fully compressed, the buffer spring releases its energy and pushes the buffer and bolt carrier forward. The weight inside the buffer tends to remain static as the buffer itself starts to move forward, thus it slides to the rear inside the buffer (relative to the buffer movement itself. When the bolt and carrier reach the forward limit of their travel, and the bolt itself strikes the breech, the bolt and carrier has a tendency to bounce back. At that time the buffer weight slides forward inside the buffer, and gives the carrier another push, which cancels out the bolt bounce. This keeps the bolt in place so that the carrier can continue forward and allow the cam pin to rotate the bolt into lock. Now, tell me how this not happening becomes a good thing. |
|
OK. Several years ago I was shooting my carbine and noticed it would not fire 2 in a row. So I took it apart and noticed the disconnector had been whacked by the hammer head during ejection. So I put in a new disconnector and went to the range again. After a few rounds, I had failures to feed again. Hmm... So I just used another gun.
When I got home I took this carbine apart to see what was up. At the same time I stripped another carbine to clean. I saw the same carbine had a bent diconnector again...hmmm. As I stripped out the spring and buffer to see if the spring was too weak or damaged, I noticed that the buffer weighed just about nothing. It was just a hollow plastic tube... yeaow! So I replaced the disconnector and put in another buffer and went out side and proceeded to shoot severa lmags thru it. I had been using a buffer that came with the gun that weighed zero. It was just the spring pressure I was shooting against. Luckily no other damage ocurred. I don't know what else would be whacked if it was fired without the spring, but it would only fire once.... |
|
Guys, please read the question that I posted. It is a pure "What IF?" question. As simple as that.
I fully understand how & why the buffer functions and I'm pretty sure the rifle wouldn't function properly without one. When I finally broke down and bought my first one, I read everything on them that I could find. Like I said, Stoner really was a pretty darn smart fellow. I am simply not going to try it myself, nore do I ask that someone else try it for me. I have heard this topic mentioned in at least one movie and have heard "experts" mention this kind of stuff at gunshows & such. I did not believe it then and I simply do not believe it now. Additionally, one time (just once) I accidentally assembled my own rifle without the buffer installed. Don't ask me how I did it because I don't know, but when I was done & about to put it in the safe, i noticed a buffer sitting on my work bench and I didn't recall having any extra buffers. Call it a crainial/anus inversion if you want but it happened. Call me an idiot if you must but I did it. When I pulled the take down pin and broke it over, the recoil spring jumped about half way out, sure enough, no buffer. Heck, one time I attempted to tear one down while the bolt was retracted & could not figure out why it would not open up. I have yet to attempt to close one with the hammer in the fired position but give me enough time and I probably will try it at least once. I based my question on that if I could have done it purely by accident and seeing just how many of them there are, and that there really are people on this planet that are dumber than me, then it is possible that someone, somewhere has actually done it especailly in the military in the dark or in a high stress situation. Let alone some poor smuck that believes everything he sees or hears in a movie. As I mentioned, Murphy's Law dictates that anything that can go wrong will ... or has. And so I ask, in your opinion, what would happen if it were done. If you have actually seen it done, please share. Curiousity, nothing more. MLG |
|
Quoted:
OK. Several years ago I was shooting my carbine and noticed it would not fire 2 in a row. So I took it apart and noticed the disconnector had been whacked by the hammer head during ejection. So I put in a new disconnector and went to the range again. After a few rounds, I had failures to feed again. Hmm... So I just used another gun. When I got home I took this carbine apart to see what was up. At the same time I stripped another carbine to clean. I saw the same carbine had a bent diconnector again...hmmm. As I stripped out the spring and buffer to see if the spring was too weak or damaged, I noticed that the buffer weighed just about nothing. It was just a hollow plastic tube... yeaow! So I replaced the disconnector and put in another buffer and went out side and proceeded to shoot severa lmags thru it. I had been using a buffer that came with the gun that weighed zero. It was just the spring pressure I was shooting against. Luckily no other damage ocurred. I don't know what else would be whacked if it was fired without the spring, but it would only fire once.... Thanks man, that's the kind of info I was asking about. So, someone had removed the weight from the buffer or it possibly came defective and the damage was damaged trigger group parts (disconnector). Thanks, MLG |
|
Quoted:
Like everyone else, I've heard the BS stories from experts of how removing the buffer will perform all kinds of mystical feats MLG Nope, I have never actually heard anything that stupid. Even in the Army, a place of concentrated stupidity, this has not happened or been discussed. |
| I accidentally put my spring/buffer assembly in backwards in my first rifle build. The buffer was towards the back of the stock, and the spring was up against the bolt carrier with nothing in between them. I took the gun to the range, and it functioned just fine. I took it home after to clean it, and saw my mistake. I dont think any serious damage was done, and the gun functioned, so I don't know what to say. |
|
Quoted:
I accidentally put my spring/buffer assembly in backwards in my first rifle build. The buffer was towards the back of the stock, and the spring was up against the bolt carrier with nothing in between them. I took the gun to the range, and it functioned just fine. I took it home after to clean it, and saw my mistake. I dont think any serious damage was done, and the gun functioned, so I don't know what to say. Horse shit. Please repeat, you tube style, or gtfo. |
|
Quoted:
Like everyone else, I've heard the BS stories from experts of how removing the buffer will perform all kinds of mystical feats I've never heard a story even remotely similar to this, and it has to be one of the most preposterous fantasies I've heard regarding the AR15. You'd likely fuxxor several parts in your rifle due to the overtravel of the BCG with the first shot. Non-good things are going to happen when the gas key hits the back of the charging handle and lower receiver at high velocity. |
|
Quoted:
mlg123 Is not making this rumor up. I heard a fucktard dealer at Market Hall in Dallas about 10yrs ago telling some guys that if they took out the buffer it would run full auto.............. Thanks man, I figured that everyone had heard the same kind of BS that I had. Plus all the other file this off a little & instant full auto. |
AR Sponsor