AR Sponsor
Posted: 2/21/2003 5:51:42 PM EDT
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I recently purchased a Bushmaster Target and I am having a problem that probably has an embarrassingly simple anwser. Every two to five rounds gets jammed coming out of the magazine, usually shoving the bullet into the case. The gun has only been shot maybe 30 rounds. The ammunition that I started with was UMC 45gr. I have about eight temporarily unuseable cartridges now. I shot ten of my reloads and they all fed fine. 55gr. V-Max, 25gr. of Varget overall length of 2.250. I decided I might want to shoot this rifle in Service rifle this weekend, my first match. I did not have enough shells loaded up so I bought three boxes of UMC 55GR.( thinking I had solved my problem w/ the 55. gr. bullet.) wrong! Same thing happened again. This may be too much info, may not be enough, but what could it be. I should not be having this problem with a new rifle. Any and all replys appreciated. I have a few ideas about what it might be but one of you guys probably KNOW what the problem is. |
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Brunson, Welcome to Ar15.com. Most of the time, the problem we find with the rifle is the nut behind the rifle. The down a dirty to solving most of the problems with the rifle are simply bring the owner up to speed on the rifle and cleaning procedures. First off, only clean and lube the rifle with CLP. The bore should be cleaned with a good copper solvent, then the solvent cleaned out with CLP. Basically, clean the chamber/bore then finish off cleaning/lubing the rifle with CLP. Also, don't forget to give the gas tube a good spray to allow the CLP to dissolve any fouling in the tube and gas port. User’s manual [url]http://www.ar15.com/content/books/TM9-1005-319-10.pdf[/url] The other thing to keep in mind is that the upper and bearing surfaces are still rough due to the anodizing finish. Keep the carrier/bolt lightly lube with CLP to allow the carrier to mate with the upper receiver. As for mags, all are not equal. The best mags are USGI mags, and the worst are clone mags such as USA mags, due to the soft lips that can cause feeding problems. From what you have stated, with the rounds being dented by the bolt, the rifle is short stroking on the cocking cycle and the bolt is not making it past the back of the round, but is grabbing the round on top and forcing it into the chamber with the bolt stuck on top. Considering that you may have not fully cleaned the rifle, or may be using the wrong lube, we will need a little more background on the rifle, the mags, and what procedure that you are using to clean the rifle. Dano |
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Alot of people on this board respect your opinion and knowledge it seems. So I am glad you responded espesially so quickly. First it is a brand new rifle. Should I have taken a brand new rifle all the way down to clean. I cleaned the bore thoroughly before I shot the first round. Second, the bolt is not catching the case in the center, it makes it back behind the case and then crams it into the space between the mag.(Bushmaster 10 rd.mag.) and the chamber, shoving the bullet into the case, usually. Which in turn causes the mag. to hang up when I try to drop it out the bottom. Third, the mag. seems to wiggle around quite a bit. how much wiggle should there be? Fourth, sometimes wiggling the mag. a bit breaks the tip of the bullet free allowing the bolt to go ahead and chamber the round. Sometimes not. I could continue to elaborate, but maybe I have stated what you need to know to help me out...Yes, this is my first AR. and it IS probaly the nut behind it. |
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Brunson You will have to forgive Dano, he can be condescending at times. Still, he stumbles across a good idea now and then. From what you have said so far I suspect the magazine but am still concerned about short stroking. Try loading one round in the mag at a time. If the gun is short stroking it won't lock the bolt back on an empty mag reliably. I have heard that Bushmaster 10 round mags can be bad. You really should get some spare mags. Stay with GI mags, the aftermarkets are questionable. |
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Thanks Old Guy, I will try that first thing in the morning. If it is short stroking, why? and how do I fix it? If it is because the UMC's don't create enough pressure, that may explain why my reloads feed fine. I do plan to get some other mag. soon. I am just trying to get through the weekend with what I have so I won't miss this months Service rifle match. Thanks... Oh yeah. It does it when I cycle the bolt by hand through the whole mag. Doesn't that eliminate short stroking? |
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Short stroking can be caused by lot's of things. gas leaks... loose carrier key bolt/carrier dimensions some claim it's bad when the gas ring gaps line up (probably for marginal guns) or... rough or sticky chamber can delay extraction wrong recoil spring or buffer As you mention, lighter bullets or loads can result in less energy available to cycle the action. The gun should work reliably with the loads you mention. Check that the magazine lips match the contour of the top round. If one round works reliably try two rounds. Does the bolt lock open with the last round partially out of the mag or laying loose in the action. |
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Quoted: [B]First it is a brand new rifle. Should I have taken a brand new rifle all the way down to clean? I cleaned the bore thoroughly before I shot the first round.[/B] The first thing to do is to break the rifle down and clean/lube all of the rifle , and not just the bore. When the rifle is factory assembled, some area's are left dry, while others a covered in grease. This can lead to some area's binding, while others are gummed up, due to the assembly grease. [url]http://www.ar15.com/content/docs/maintenance/[/url] [B]Second, the bolt is not catching the case in the center, it makes it back behind the case and then crams it into the space between the mag.(Bushmaster 10 rd.mag.) The round is feed below the feed ramps and jams.[/B] I could be that the mag is bad or has not broken in yet, but until you have fully cleaned and lubed the rifle/mag, you will not know for sure. Also, on the mag, use a ruler and press down on the follower a few times to break in the follower. The green followers are a bit oversized and can bind on the fresh anodizing on the inside of the mag. Dano P.S. Is this OZ, and I am being cast as the wicked witch of the North????? |
| Thanks alot. I will try everything metioned this morming and see what happens . I may be back on here this afternoon because I realy need this rifle to operate tomarrow. It will be my first match and I am just going to go through the motions this month. Worst case is I have to feed it one shot at a time. Then I will have a whole month to figure out what the problem is. Did I mention there is quite a bit of wobble in the magazine, in fact, if I shove it forward a bit it will sometimes give the round what it needs to allow the bolt to chamber it... |
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Brunson, I'm having the exact same problem that you are. The bolt is extracting the spent case and grabs the new case. It pushes the bullet into the receiver right under the chamber feed ramps and shoves the bullet into the case. Here is a thread that I started due to this problem. Many members have given me alot of info to try and fix this problem: [URL]http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=66&t=149276[/URL] My solution so far is using the steel mags made in England. They function just fine for me. The steel and alloy USGI mags do not work. Neither do the plastic Orlite mags. |
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Dano, you wicked witch.... I see you have kept my seat warmin my absence. For that I thank you. Brunson, listen to the wicked witch. THe answer, although you may not like it, is YES, you have to completely break down a new AR15 and thoroughly clean & lube it to make it start working right...and that could take at least a few mags worth of ammo. This is the way it is. Also, to break your gun in(yes, many factory guns need breaking in due to poor finishing techniques) you should get thee some cheap, russian Wolf and run that through your gun...not some pipsqueak target or light loads. Until you have done that, there isn't any magical answer. As far as only English Steel mags, I would suggest you start trying to find out why your gun doesn'tlike standard USGI mags. THere is something out-of-spec...period. I understand the Orlites and the USA's, as they are both questionable in dimensions...but not the USGI. Now everybody... We're......off to see the wizard...... |
| Thanks KY23, you feel my pain don't you! I am on my third tantrum. I will call Bushmaster on Monday to let them know I don't appreciate having to go through this on brand new rifle. I will say this, I just cycled some of my varmint loads (55gr. V-Max 25.5gr. Varget O.A.L. 2.250) threw it 50 times not a single problem, but I don't intend to feed my reloads to it every time I want to shoot it, and I shouldn't have to. |
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Brunson, has it occurred to you that your reloads are hotter than standard factory stuff and so cycles the new/rough action more reliably? Has it also occurred to you that you purchased a TARGET rifle which may [intentionally] have a tighter chamber which is holding onto the spent case a little longer thereby retarding the cycle? Has it occurred to you that your 'tests' so far are not at all either long enough or controlled enough to properly assesst this gun? Has it occurred to you that AR's are not [typically] expensive hunting/target rifles and are basically military machines that require the owner to take some responsibility. It always amazes me when someone comes here to seek knowledge and then disagrees if they don't hear the answer they like. You can yell at Bushmaster and they wil probably tell you to send your gun back to them and they will 'correct' whatever problem you want them to tell you they found, but you will have leaerned nothing about your gun, and AR's in general, during the process. And to answer your question a second time, YES, this is to be expected from this particular rifle, even from Bushmaster. If you and KY23 care to actually fix your rifles, which, by the way, is what we do here, and historically with extreme success, we, and I think I can safely speak for the senior members around here, will be be happy to give however much time and attention it takes to assist you. But you have to be patient and be willing tolisten & learn. We have all walked in your shoes. AR's can be hard work...they are subtly complicated. Oh yeah, and welcome to the AR15 Troubleshooting Board. |
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My God Royce, I may be the wicked witch of the north, but you just came off as the Evil Stepmother. We all know that a few of the guys here shop for the answers, be it the correct one, or just the easiest one, but it's not our jobs to beat them with the seeing eye cane to herd them to the right one. Myself, I am feeling much better now am referred to being "Only moody now and them, with a few counts of being "Condescending". After loosing it myself a few weeks ago, and threatened to take my Magic eight ball and go play elsewhere, we all feel your frustration. Royce, Nice to have you back in true form!!!!!! Dano |
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First let me welcome you to the board. Answer one, yes you should clean your AR prior to firing. I doubt seriously if this is your problem though for if I had a rifle that was special lube dependent especially a military rifle designed to shoot under adverse conditions, I would send it back. Most jam issues I've had have been due to the mag especially prevalent in new 10 round factory mags and brand new plastic mags Orlite or Thermold. Typically it is due to a burr on the two lips that hold the rounds which causes the bolt to either catch the round mid casing or not load at all. Used GI mags typically do not have this issue since they are worn already. I correct this by sanding the burrs off and usually they feed fine after that. I would recommend you clean the rifle, then try another mag or two. This will determine it is mag dependent. Then modify your problem mag so it works or scrap it. I typically check mag feeds by cycling fast with the safety on and rifle pointed in a safe direction without pulling the trigger. Have confidence for you WILL sort it out and Bushmaster makes one fine rifle. |
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My advice is also to break the rifle down and clean everything and lube properly. The first thing I do when I bring home a new AR (or any gun for that matter) is strip it down, scrub the parts with a toothbrush and Hoppes#9 and run some soaked patches through the bore, spray everything down with Gunscrubber, then lightly coat all the parts in the carrier and inside of the receiver with Remoil. This is the procedure I carry out with every cleaning and I have yet to have a jam in 2 Colt AR's with approx 4000 rounds between them (not counting the factory 9 round mags which require tweaking to function properly and cause headaches for new AR owners). So, clean it properly, keep it lubed, buy USGI mags, and if that doesn't work call Bushmaster. |
| O.K. I will stick to the facts, I am sorry for venting my frustration. No sarcasm implied, I think these rifles should work, when they are brand new..... It should not have to do with the pressure of my loads, because it does it when the bolt is cycled without firing. I think the rifle likes ballistic tips and does not care for the fullmetal jackets. The slightly blunt tip is giving me problems I feel certain. What can I do to make this rifle accept full metal jackets? |
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Quoted: O.K. I will stick to the facts, I am sorry for venting my frustration. No sarcasm implied, I think these rifles should work, when they are brand new..... It should not have to do with the pressure of my loads, because it does it when the bolt is cycled without firing. I think the rifle likes ballistic tips and does not care for the fullmetal jackets. The slightly blunt tip is giving me problems I feel certain. What can I do to make this rifle accept full metal jackets? Are there any burs or anything on the feed ramps for the tip to catch on? |
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Guys, Just because I'm balding, put on a few extra pounds over the winter, and am getting long in the tooth, doesn't mean that I have to be the old codger behind the curtain. I kind of like being referred to as the Wicked Witch of the North. The way I see it, I get to wear the really cool shoes (Red fish scales at their finniest), and can sick my flying monkeys (The same drunken monkeys that build the SAR rifles on their off hours) on the clueless, whenever my PMS levels get high. The only problem to the whole idea is when I do get a little too wicked, Royce (like that that dam little Toto dog) starts nipping at my ankles then lifts his leg in my direction (if you haven't been paying attention, Royce and I play Point/Counter point every so often). Now if I can just wedge that magic wand out of my ass (I guess that it’s making me a little to stringent and condescending due to the rigid on my toes stance), I may be able to solve problems in a single stroke, instead of have to repeatedly shake the magic 8 ball to get my answers. Also, Since we all know that I have never seen an AR rifle, much less touched one, and only own a match book that has a picture of a rifle (much to faded to be sure it's AR anymore), does anyone how of where I can get a new match book with the picture in brail. It will go great with my blind man glasses and Seeing Eye dog that I often find myself using to blindly grope out the solutions for the questions (what little information is given) often posted here. Dano [peep] |
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Quoted: I will say this, I just cycled some of my varmint loads (55gr. V-Max 25.5gr. Varget O.A.L. 2.250) threw it 50 times not a single problem, but I don't intend to feed my reloads to it every time I want to shoot it, and I shouldn't have to. Hand feeding is not the same as the action self-feeding. When the bolt comes back, the bolt presses down on the top round. In hand feeding, the mag has a second to recover (get the top rounds back up to the feed lips). When fired, the mag/follower may stall (in getting the top round back up against the feed lips) and will result in the round being driven out below the correct feed line, and will cause the bullet to strike below the feed ramps. To throw a wrench into the works, when the buffer is driven back on normal firing, the contact with the back of the receiver extension by the buffer may help the mag by jarring up the follower/rounds. The variances of the speed of the buffer/carrier to the back of the tube could also be playing a role in the ability of the mag to recover/be jolted and whether the rifle/mag jams or not. Bottom line is that 99% of the rifles will run from the start. What you have to realize is that the rifle is still tight/bearing surfaces rough, and a good cleaning and the use of a light coat of CLP with allow the rifle to perform and overcome the new conditions. After a few hundred rounds, the barrel will have been fired lapped, the chamber will have self-polished, and the upper parts will have polished themselves out. But until that happens, the rifle will be a little finicky, and the best that you can do is to keep the upper bearing surfaces lightly lubed with CLP to aid the rifle in breaking in by allowing the new surfaces the ability to overcome the new/rough binding conditions. As for your mag, I would say that the follower has not mated with the inner sides of the body, and just need to be hand worked with a ruler to break it in. Load it up with CLP, jam the follower down around 20 times and allow it to snap back up, then just pull the mag apart and clean out the anodized/plastic fouled CLP. Dano |
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Brunson, et al, we have all gone through exactly what you are experiencing. Notice that ALL of the advice you got, regardless of what they believe MIGHT be YOUR problem, instructed you to completely break down & clean your weapon BEFORE you go any further. That is the lesson we are trying to get across. When in doubt, clean & lube first. We have been doing this here for a very long time and you would be amazed at how many function problems, especially from the new rifles, are cleaning & lubrication related. I know you are mad that you paid a great deal of money for something that seems like it should have been gone over a little better before shipping. Welcome to the world of firearms. Ever see a $5,000 Sako arrive with problems and get sent back? I have. How about the 'rats' that often make it out of the Colt Custom Shop in the way of SAA's with poor fit & finish for $1,200? Take a breath, be patient, and go by the numbers. If you can solve your problem at home, you will not lose your rifle for weeks and you will have learned how to care for your weapon. It is a worthy & rewarding road to travel. As Dano said, hand-cycling is NOT avalid function test, despite what anyone may have told you. As Tom Jefferson says, mags are always suspect. You have to establsh better 'control' to test by. Clean & Lube thoroughly. Get a hold a 2 or 3 different mags (different make, size) Get some factory loads along with your reloads. Start with one factory round in the mag and fire at the range. Does the bolt/carrier lock back? If it does, then load 2 rounds in THAT mag. Then 3, 4, and 5. You can stop at 5. Do the same test with THAT mag using your reloads. If you have any problems along this road stop and tell us exactly what happened. We're here for you, whether you like it or not. We NEVER abandon an AR that doesn't work. |
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I did have a very long evil post here pointed to Royce. I've erased it because it was childish. But...I will say this. Royce if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all. Your comments above: "If you and KY23 care to actually fix your rifles, which, by the way, is what we do here, and historically with extreme success, we, and I think I can safely speak for the senior members around here, will be be happy to give however much time and attention it takes to assist you. But you have to be patient and be willing tolisten & learn. We have all walked in your shoes. AR's can be hard work...they are subtly complicated." I've been trying to fix my rifle. I've contacted RRA and they also think this is a broken rifle and not a mag problem or a cleaning problem. My AR is spotless and lubed just the way it is supposed to be. I've fired hundreds of AR's that were dirty, frozen and wet and have never seen this problem. |
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This is not a new discussion. It crops up every so often when those who seek help decide they don't like the service...mainly because they don't get the answer they want. Typically, the answer they want serves to justify either their anger at the manufacturer (sometimes rightly so) or their unwillingness to face the fact that these firearms aren't the 'erector sets' they thought they would be, and it all turns into work. I apologize if I mistakenly grouped you into that category. I am not familiar with your 'case' and so I cannot comment. I will say this: No one, not even the manufacturer, can accurately diagnose a 'broken' rifle on the telephone, or the internet, without a controlled test situation and willing participants at both ends. I do not believe for a moment that any manufacturer spent the time analyzing and discussing like we do here. If they did, this board would not exist. I do know that in all the time I have spent here, I can't count on my ten fingers the rifles that actually needed to be sent back short of an obvious physical defect. I am sorry if I offended you, but I simply don't buy into the whining of those who refuse to listen after they themselves ask the question. I think it should be the other way around...If you already know the answer, then don't ask your question. In case you haven't noticed, the troubeshooting we get into here can often be well beyond cleaning & mags. For those willing to take tool-in-hand, there is a wealth of knowledge and expertise to guide those interested parties. Many come here because they don't want to send their rifle back. They want to fix it...but that requires learning, time, patience, experimenting, trial & error, and, most important, a willingness to fail. I have been wrong all too often, but only with my own guns. I don't give edvice unless I am absolutely sure about what I am talking about. I have learned that lesson. When I am wrong,I am happy to be corrected. I said nothiing that was 'not nice'. You have confused 'nice' with 'honest', and I will take 'honest' any day of the week. I learn nothing from being placated and petted. I went back and read your thread in its entirety. Your problem is not your mags. That will prove a dead end. Unless you can see obvious tool markings on your feed ramps, it is probably not that, either. THere are a gazillion AR's that function and continue to function without the Colt M4 mod. All of my AR's are perfect examples. ( I am partial to COlt and seldom classify them with the others. Boy, I'll hear it for that one) I would direct my search in the opposite direction from everyone else. I think it is in the lower. I think that it is possible that you have worn or replacement parts in the lower that are not up to spec. Could be the mag catch itself...could be that someone opened up that mag well to make typically tight mags drop-free. I have seen several Oly's that have mag wells tighter than everyone else's. I am contemplating opening up one of them this week, in fact. I have questions: 1) You inferred that you were not the original owner. Do you know the gun's original owner, and so know its entire past? 2) Did you swap out your lower & upper with others of known relable function to narrow the problem down to either upper or lower? I have seldom met an AR that couldn't be user corrected with the right troubleshooting techniques. Like I said, I'm here as long as you want to go at it, even if you (temporarily) don't like me. This may be a bit selfish, because if you send it back, I don't get to try and solve the mystery. ps: I am also known for unreasonably long posts. |
| I think we fixed it. Thank all of you for your time and assistance. I can not say what single thing it was that corrected the problem. It may have been a combo. of things. The last thing I did was lightly file the front corner of the two lips that hold the cartridges down. I did it in such a way as to let the spring pressure turn the nose of the bullet up slightly more than it had. I made it more like a mag. that is slightly worn. Thank you all again. |
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royce, Maybe I took you wrong. If I did I appologize. Your post rubbed me the wrong way. I do want to fix my rifle. Everyone here puts newbies down and it pisses me off. I'm a newbie to AR15.com but I'm not a newbie to AR-15s. I've got 12 years experience using them and shooting them. I was a Marine Corp PMI and have shot many many AR's. I've also used them in several armed conflicts and know that an AR is a very reliable rifle. I've seen very few that would not shoot and even less that would jam up if they were kept clean. I've never seen this issue in an AR. I have the problem solved if I only want to use Royal Ordanance mags but that is not good enough. I want the AR to function with any good mag I stick in it. I have not tried swapping my upper or lower with a working AR. That is a good suggestion and I'll try it during my next range visit. I came here for advice and tried everything I was told to try. I called RRA and they seemed to know what was happening as soon as I told them. I think they can get a good idea what is wrong over the phone. I had the entire list of troubleshooting steps in front of me while talking to the tech. There was nothing he asked that I didn't try. Thanks to the guys on this board, they gave me alot of really good troubleshooting ideas that I didn't think of. I'm going to try a few more things and then send it back. I would like to fix it myself without sending it back but I don't want to loose the offer from the RRA tech that they will make it right. My AR is not covered under the warranty since I did not purchase it new. The person I purchased the rifle from is a member of this board. I found it on the Equipment Exchange. According to him it had less than 100 rounds through it and it looked like a brand new rifle. No tool marks no scratches...nothing. According to the person I purchased it from it never jammed on him but I'm beginning to think that this is the reason he sold it. Thanks again for everyone's help. |
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KY23, Last I heard, you where going to send the rifle back to RRA to let them have a look at it. The thing that Royce may have missed is that your rifle may have a bad mag catch, or the receiver may have had the mag catch located slightly lower when milled. Since Royce or myself have never had the rifle to hold and check out, at least let RRA get their hands on the rifle to simple correct the problem. Note: If the receiver was milled wrong, then they can change the receiver out for you and be done with the problem. As the sot, they have to option create a new receiver and either use the same Serial # or a current # and transfer the new receiver directly to you. Dano |
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Water under the bridge. I like newbies...been one myself and I haven't forgotten the 3 weeks I spent trying to to get my first AR to function. It had multiple problems. It is rare that anyone berates a newbie around here. Usually it is for only 2 reasons: They are not honest with us, or they are frustrated and just want to hear the answer they like. Both are a waste of time and resources. I would give the member who sold you the gun the benfit of the doubt on this one. They may have only done single shots for sighting in, in which case they may not have know about this problem...or they may have had a mag that the gun happend to get along with. I understand about your concern with RRA and their offer, but it will still be there in another week, so take your time. They will honor their commitment to you. It is always good to know your problem before you send it in. It makes you a better customer. Dano, I did mention that the mag catch could be at fault. It is more likely that a 'part' is wrong rather than the lower itself. And I could be totally wrong, but that is the challenge. Careful deductive reasoning and a little bit of knowledge. It's not like we do this with a Magic 8 Ball! Swap that upper and let us know. Brunson, glad to hear you have your gun up & running. By the way, have you tried other mags? I don't recall that in this thread. And how did that thorough cleaning go? |
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Dano, I still am going to send it back if I can't fix it myself. I'm actually going on a coyote hunt today and that is why I haven't sent my rifle in yet. After today it will be available and I can send it in. Is it worth trying to purchase new mag catch to see if that fixes the problem? I'll exchange my upper and lower with a working AR like royce suggested and see if that fixes the problem...if it does I'll replace the mag catch. Does that sound like a valid plan? |
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Royce, I have not tryed different magazines yet. I need a source for good, reasonably priced magazines. Also, where can I get CLP in other than a spray can? Is Butchs Bore Shine O.K. for cleaning copper? I hope so, because I bought a 16oz. bottle of it. The take down of the rifle for cleaning went O.K. but there was one pin I was not able to remove in the bolt. You probably know which one. It is very small. Also I was not able to get the safety lever off. I was using a wooden dowel to tap it out. I did not want to force it, so I left it until I could find out the right way. Any suggestions on how to get either of them out? I was following along, with a video that was made in 1986. Maybe that was part of the problem, if rifle has changed any since then. |
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Brunson, I have a feeling that Royce is off destroying metal on his new mill, so I'll take a stab at some of your question. For mags, you may want to look over at the equipment exchange. Used for around $15 and new in wraps around $30. As for CLP, BreakfreeCLP, FP-10 and a lot of others come in the bottle type. If you look over in the AR-15 discussion, you can get a free sample of FP-10 to try out. Granted that it cost a little more than BreakfreeCLP, but FP-10 is a lot slicker and smells way better than BreakfreeCLP. Regarding breaking the rifle down for cleaning, you may be going a little over boards. To start off, just swing the upper/lower open and pull the handle and Bolt/Carrier. On the B/C, pull the bolt, and just remove the extractor (press down on the back and push the pin out). Leave the gas rings, the key and the ejector (pin on the bolt face) alone. There is not reason to pull them to cleaning. On the buffer, pull it and the recoil spring, and clean the extension tube, spring and buffer, then lightly lube the buffer and spring and re-insert. On the barrel, the Butch’s Bore Shine will work fine, but remember to finish off the barrel/chamber cleaning with a patch of CLP, then a dry path to remove all the solvent/CLP. Also, it helps to run a few drops of CLP down the gas tube to dissolve the burnt on fouling as the same time you start to clean the barrel. The hand guards can be left on the rifle, but its nice to pull them every so often and clean the fouling off the barrel and give the steel barrel a coat of CLP to keep the parts from rusting. On the selector and fire control group, for the most part, leave then alone and only apply a light coat of CLP to keep them from rusting. By using a Q-tip, you can get all the old fouling/CLP out and do not have to pull the parts to clean. The exception would be during a yearly cleaning and parts check to confirm that the parts are still in working order. The less that you pull the FCG parts, the less wear you will have to the receiver pinholes. Also, a dowel can be used to remove the selector, but the best way is to just remove the pistol grip and take the spring/detent pressure off the selector. When you remove the grip, the spring will be retained by a hole in the ejection side of the rifle, and the detent pin will still be in the receiver detent channel, so go slow and don’t loose the parts Once you have all the parts clean, just remember to apply a light coat of CLP, and reinsert the parts. Hope this answered your questions. Dano |
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Quoted: Dano, Is it worth trying to purchase new mag catch to see if that fixes the problem? I'll exchange my upper and lower with a working AR like royce suggested and see if that fixes the problem...if it does I'll replace the mag catch. Does that sound like a valid plan? If you extra parts around, even if you have to strip them off another rifle, give them a try. If you find that a certain part is bad, like a mag catch, then it a lot cheaper to just get the new replacement part, verse shipping the entire rifle off and having to what for it's return. |
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Destroying metal is being kind. I'm now on the Metal's Most Wanted List for Atrocities to Metal. I have never used any machine shop tool(lathe, mill, blast cabinet) so I am a newbie in the strictest sense with this stuff. So much to learn, so many endmills to burn, but it's new & exciting. Geez, just setting up is an endless project. Yeah, sorry for the 'quick' answer there, Brunson, but I was typing while being threatened with the loss of dinner for the rest of my life if I didn't come upstairs toute suite. Dano, that's a good cleaning primer (pronounced 'primmer' for you historic English fans). You should save a copy of it to use as needed. Pics with it would be nice. I will save it as is. It's pretty concise & to the point. It will certainly save time & yping in the future. |
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Royce, Until you get a feel for your new machine, you may want to just cut aluminum block. When I first learned to use a CNC machine, we just used Plastic block to check the program for the correct cuts and passes. On your mini mill, it sounds like you are trying to take off too much metal on a single pass or running the cutting head to fast, and burning up heads. As for the blast cabinet, get a bag of glass bead medium. If your using silica sand, it cuts too much and doesn't leave the light preening look you used to seeing. |
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Yep...too fast & too deep. I learned that one pretty quick. I now have to concentrate on developing agood 'set-up' so that everything is true & parallel. That will be my tough hurdle...to deveop those skills & make them habit. Glass beads...check. I have also heard that aluminum oxide works slower but gives a good finish. |
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Royce, Have you torn down the machine and reset all the points to tighen up the loose play. If you check around on the web, you should be able to find a write up on the tear down and points to tighten on your mini mill. With out the mini being tight, you get too much back lash and have to use a Mic to check the cuts, instead of just using the built in gauges. Dano |
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Yes, I have stripped down the machine, cleaned, lubed, and set all the gibs. This particular machine (mini-mill) does have some inherent backlash problems, the worst being in the 'Y' axis. There are a couple of potential 'helps' being tossed about and I am looking at them and dicusing them with others, as well as one of my own design. None have proven 'definitive' yet. My problem is exactly that...MY problem. I must learn the discipline of extreme measuring and adjustment. This is something that we do in reloading, but, as you know, the mill is working in 3 dimensions, as opposed to 1 in reloading. This is more a mental conquest than a physical one. When I am satisfied with my ability to control this machine and produce expected results, I will add the lathe. So, what's going on with bent FP's around here? This is something I have no experience with, as I have never bent one. Teach me here so I can look smart on the next post about firing pins. |
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Brunson, Listen to royce and Dano, they've been doing this for a long time and doing a great job at it. They know what they're talking about. First check your feed ramps, there should be a smooth transition from the upper receiver to the barrel extension, often there is a step there and that's enough to hang soft points up. Look for marks where your projos have been striking the rifle. Next step is to check your mag catch location, the following is for reference only bc it depends on many other factors to be correct for it to be so. It also doesn't take into account where the barrel sits in relation to the mag catch. The top line of the lower to the BOTTOM of the mag catch slot should mic .9375" +/- .0035". If it's far lower than that you may have found the problem. My bet is on the feed ramps tho. These guns were not designed to run with commercial ammo and that is why Colt built the M4 ramps into the Abu Dhabi carbine, nee M4, so long ago. |
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