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Posted: 1/10/2016 6:08:18 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon]
Federal 62 Grain Fusion vs Federal 62 Grain Fusion MSR vs Speer LE 62 Grain Gold Dot

Attachment Attached File





The muzzle velocities shown in the tables below were obtained back-to-back during the same chronograph session using recent lots of all three of the Fusion/Gold Dot loads chrongographed.

Atmospheric Conditions

Temperature:  73 degrees F (plus or minus one degree)
Barometric Pressure:  29.68 inches of Hg
Humidity:  62%
Altitude:  950 feet above sea level  



Muzzle velocities from a 20” Colt M16A2 barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7” twist.

Attachment Attached File






Muzzle velocities from a 14.5 Noveske N4 light barrel with a NATO chamber, chrome lining and a 1:7’ twist.

Attachment Attached File





10-shot groups were fired from one of my precision AR-15s with a Lothar-Walther barrel with a 223 Wylde chamber and a 1:8” twist.  The groups were fired from the bench at a distance of 100 yards with the same sight settings on the scope for each of the three groups.





Attachment Attached File






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.



Attachment Attached File

Left to right:  1.  62 grain Fusion,  2.  62 grain Gold Dot,  3.  64 grain Gold Dot,  4.  75 grain Gold Dot
...
Link Posted: 1/10/2016 6:28:39 PM EDT
[#1]
Great post!!

I grabbed some of the standard Fusion from Mass Ammo on Black Friday so from looking at this test it appears to be slightly more accurate (in your rifle) but a little slower than the MSR version.  Did you notice any difference with regards to primers between them as far as pressure signs?
Link Posted: 1/10/2016 7:50:05 PM EDT
[#2]
All three loads look to be outstanding!  There has been good feedback by a lot of the guys here, but anecdotal.  This shows how good they are.  Thanks, Molon, this is a great service you are providing us.
Link Posted: 1/10/2016 7:55:58 PM EDT
[#3]
Thanks for these awesome posts.
Link Posted: 1/10/2016 9:15:25 PM EDT
[#4]
Thanks Molon, good to see this again. I screenshotted all the results from when this was posted in the past.
Link Posted: 1/11/2016 12:08:08 AM EDT
[#5]
Link Posted: 1/11/2016 12:27:07 AM EDT
[#6]
Link Posted: 1/12/2016 10:23:18 PM EDT
[#7]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By jlficken:

Did you notice any difference with regards to primers between them as far as pressure signs?

View Quote


Nothing that I noticed.  These are all 223 Remington loads.
Link Posted: 1/25/2016 12:22:18 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Buck_Naked] [#8]

Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length?



       What is your opinion or thoughts in shooting any of these rounds out of a 1 in 9" barrel? Curious how this might perform in a AUG...
 
Link Posted: 1/25/2016 10:52:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:

Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length?


What is your opinion or thoughts in shooting any of these rounds out of a 1 in 9" barrel? Curious how this might perform in a AUG...  

View Quote



I'll pull one and measure it, but a 1:9" twist is great for these.


...
Link Posted: 1/26/2016 1:12:01 AM EDT
[#10]

Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:
I'll pull one and measure it, but a 1:9" twist is great for these.





...

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:



Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:



Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length?





What is your opinion or thoughts in shooting any of these rounds out of a 1 in 9" barrel? Curious how this might perform in a AUG...  









I'll pull one and measure it, but a 1:9" twist is great for these.





...

Thank you sir!

 



I also want to say its great to see your posts again! I always enjoy the information you provide!
Link Posted: 1/27/2016 9:12:58 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:

Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length?


 
View Quote



0.808"


...
Link Posted: 1/28/2016 12:57:24 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Buck_Naked] [#12]


Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:
0.808"
...


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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:





Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:





Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length?
 

0.808"
...


Thanks! I was expecting the bullet to be longer... I hadn't seen a cross section and I thought there was more copper in the base... did a search for a cross section and found this link:





https://www.federalpremium.com/products/brands/fusion.aspx







The bullet design is more traditional than I expected, with apparent enhancements made through the way the jacket appears to be bonded (fused) to the core...







Thanks again Molon!





 










 
Link Posted: 1/28/2016 9:54:13 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon] [#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Thanks! I was expecting the bullet to be longer... I hadn't seen a cross section and I thought there was more copper in the base... did a search for a cross section and found this link:

https://www.federalpremium.com/products/brands/fusion.aspx


The bullet design is more traditional than I expected, with apparent enhancements made through the way the jacket appears to be bonded (fused) to the core...


Thanks again Molon!
 




 
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By Buck_Naked:

Any chance you pulled a bullet and measured length?


 



0.808"


...
Thanks! I was expecting the bullet to be longer... I hadn't seen a cross section and I thought there was more copper in the base... did a search for a cross section and found this link:

https://www.federalpremium.com/products/brands/fusion.aspx


The bullet design is more traditional than I expected, with apparent enhancements made through the way the jacket appears to be bonded (fused) to the core...


Thanks again Molon!
 




 



The pic below shows the cross section of a 64 grain Gold Dot, which has a length of 0.825" and is nearly identical in construction to the 62 grain versions along with the cross section of the 62 grain Fusion.




Attachment Attached File






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....
Link Posted: 1/29/2016 9:04:39 PM EDT
[#14]
Outstanding work Molon!  Have you by any chance tested either the Gold Dot or Fusion MSR 150gr in .308?
Link Posted: 1/30/2016 12:50:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BMad316:

Outstanding work Molon!  Have you by any chance tested either the Gold Dot or Fusion MSR 150gr in .308?

View Quote


I have not.
Link Posted: 1/30/2016 6:02:24 PM EDT
[#16]
Thanks Molon, I've been waiting for a three way comparison of these rounds. I've shot all three of them and thought they all seemed pretty similar to each other.
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 1:44:44 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon] [#17]
The primer of the Fusion MSR . . .



Attachment Attached File





Attachment Attached File




....
Link Posted: 2/9/2016 2:01:13 PM EDT
[#18]
Wasn't even looking for this, but definitely glad I found it.  Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet?
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 10:33:53 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon] [#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ocshaman:

Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet?

View Quote


I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-hammer.


...
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 10:39:00 PM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:


I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-manner.


...
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By ocshaman:

Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet?



I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-manner.


...

Hammer* :P

Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review?
Link Posted: 2/13/2016 10:41:12 PM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:

Hammer* :P

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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By ocshaman:

Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet?



I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-manner.


...

Hammer* :P



Time for me to get some sleep.
Link Posted: 2/23/2016 10:59:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:

Hammer* :P

Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review?
View Quote View All Quotes
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Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:
Originally Posted By Molon:
Originally Posted By ocshaman:

Has anyone offered you your own subforum yet?



I think they'd be afraid of me getting my hands on the ban-manner.


...

Hammer* :P

Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review?



When the weather warms up.
Link Posted: 3/3/2016 11:03:03 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon] [#23]
.



Attachment Attached File





Left to right:  1.  62 grain Fusion,  2.  62 grain Gold Dot,  3.  64 grain Gold Dot,  4.  75 grain Gold Dot


...
Link Posted: 3/4/2016 6:04:13 PM EDT
[#24]
So, can we say that the Fed. Fusion 62gr is the same bullet as the 62gr Gold Dot? I cannot discern any difference, except maybe with the cannelure. But that may just be me or the lighting in the picture...
Link Posted: 3/4/2016 8:02:27 PM EDT
[#25]
Have you compared the powder charge in the MSR, Fusion, and Gold Dot LE 62gr loadings?
Link Posted: 3/5/2016 11:46:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By ITCHY-FINGER:
So, can we say that the Fed. Fusion 62gr is the same bullet as the 62gr Gold Dot? I cannot discern any difference, except maybe with the cannelure. But that may just be me or the lighting in the picture...
View Quote


To me it looks like the 62gr gold dot has a fatter ogive than the 62gr fusion bullet.
Link Posted: 3/7/2016 4:51:37 PM EDT
[#27]
I just scored 500 rounds of the Speer 64 Grain Gold Dot from Palmetto State Armory for $9.99 a box plus shipping!

Should be enough to last me a lifetime for SD and Hunting use.
Link Posted: 3/8/2016 11:23:29 PM EDT
[#28]
I now have 800 rounds of the regular 62gr Fusion. Guess I should shoot some
Link Posted: 3/9/2016 3:48:06 PM EDT
[#29]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By BigHunt:
I just scored 500 rounds of the Speer 64 Grain Gold Dot from Palmetto State Armory for $9.99 a box plus shipping!

Should be enough to last me a lifetime for SD and Hunting use.
View Quote


I just picked several boxes myself. I think this is good hunting/self defense ammo for the money at $9.99 box.
Link Posted: 3/12/2016 11:42:34 AM EDT
[#30]
From my prior experience, 62 and even 64 grain fusion loads will stabilize fine in 1-12 twist barrels.
Link Posted: 4/5/2016 8:29:58 PM EDT
[#31]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:

Have you compared the powder charge in the MSR, Fusion, and Gold Dot LE 62gr loadings?

View Quote



62 grain Fusion MSR . . . 23.9 grains

62 grain Fusion . . . . . . . 24.5 grains

62 grain Gold Dot LE  . . . 24.8 grains



...
Link Posted: 4/24/2016 7:53:23 PM EDT
[#32]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:

Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review?

View Quote



http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_16/694384_Range_Report___Speer_LE_75_Grain_Gold_Dot.html


...
Link Posted: 5/14/2016 1:20:54 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon] [#33]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 12_gauge:


Will you be doing a 75gr gdsp review?

View Quote


I'm still waiting for the weather to cooperate to obtain the chronograph data.


...


Chronograph data is now up.
Link Posted: 11/13/2016 1:19:28 PM EDT
[#34]
Link Posted: 11/14/2016 12:20:52 PM EDT
[#35]
I've fired all 3 of these ammo in one of my 18" 1-7" twist AR hunting rifle and they seemed like identical load.  
All 3 had very similar/same velocity and accuracy.  Best of all they have same POA/POI out of that rifle when I shoot 5 round groups.
Link Posted: 11/28/2016 5:19:55 PM EDT
[#36]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By yobo:
I've fired all 3 of these ammo in one of my 18" 1-7" twist AR hunting rifle and they seemed like identical load.  
All 3 had very similar/same velocity and accuracy.  Best of all they have same POA/POI out of that rifle when I shoot 5 round groups.
View Quote

I was wandering the same thing. I noticed with Molon's post the POI was very similar to justify buying whichever is available at the time. I seriously doubt any major POI differences with any of these rounds. Your post also help steer me in the direction of keeping this round for hunting purposes.
Link Posted: 1/1/2017 11:50:29 PM EDT
[#37]
I reload the Fusion 62 grain bullets with CFE 223 with 27.3 grains to get out of a 18" barrel 2872 fps.  I shot a 20 round box of Federal Fusion MSR as the control group and matched my reloads to match the same fps out to the same rifle.  I measured it with a Magnetospeed V3.  With my reloads the group size is less than 1".  It is very accurate out to 400 yards.  I have not shot it any further.  It is my SHTF load.  Has almost the same point of aim/point of impact as the 62 FMJ bullet with steel penetrator.  Perhaps .5 " different at 400 yards.  I practice with 62 FMJ, but for personal defense it is the Fusion I would use.  I have not seen any overpressure signs on the primers or cases.  I have shot perhaps 500 rounds and all are consistent in accuracy.  The Fusion bullet does not penetrate as far as the FMJ on hard surfaces such as wood, or metal, but on a soft target it destroys it.  It is a very good hunting round.  A friend uses them on deer and raves about how accurate and consistent the 308 Fusion has been.
Link Posted: 1/8/2017 10:44:15 PM EDT
[#38]
Currently stock pileing  MSRs for HD/hunting rounds
Link Posted: 10/30/2019 5:13:47 PM EDT
[#39]
I wish the pictures would still show up on this thread. It's almost impossible to read for reference, now.
Link Posted: 10/30/2019 10:00:51 PM EDT
[#40]
Link Posted: 10/31/2019 12:15:05 PM EDT
[Last Edit: DiscipulusArmorum] [#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Appalachian_Hollers:
I wish the pictures would still show up on this thread. It's almost impossible to read for reference, now.
View Quote
Luckily some of Molon's reviews were archived by site staff as part of the ammo project. Here's the Fusion/MSR/Gold Dot comparison: link

Not sure how to find a comprehensive list of what's archived, but if you put "molon [name of ammo you're looking for]" in Google, you can sometimes find an archived page with pics still intact.
Link Posted: 11/2/2019 11:24:57 AM EDT
[#42]
Link Posted: 11/3/2019 5:55:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Fusion shoots pretty good in my Colt 6720 lightweight upper. I try to buy whatever is available so I have a mix of the MSR and .223 offerings.
Link Posted: 8/16/2020 7:07:31 PM EDT
[#44]
Any chance of getting the images fixed?
Link Posted: 8/18/2020 2:15:25 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By 11C1P:
Any chance of getting the images fixed?
View Quote

Would like to see them fixed as well.
Link Posted: 8/19/2020 12:24:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Not gonna doit.
Link Posted: 8/19/2020 12:29:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: 11C1P] [#47]
Thanks OP!  Second batch of pics fixed would be great too.
Link Posted: 8/20/2020 12:53:23 AM EDT
[#48]
FWIW, the 62gr Fusion bullet is the same as the 62gr Gold Dot JSP.  Going to the Speer Gold Dot essentially gives you nickel-plated brass and a low/no flash powder.
Link Posted: 3/21/2021 9:24:51 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Molon] [#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Glock9mm1990:

Would like to see them fixed as well.
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Originally Posted By Glock9mm1990:
Originally Posted By 11C1P:
Any chance of getting the images fixed?

Would like to see them fixed as well.


additional broken picture-links repaired
Link Posted: 3/21/2021 1:07:23 PM EDT
[#50]
@Molon

Thank you very much for completing the needed fixes.

Your work is incredibly valuable. Thanks for all that you do, Molon.

If you were to ever make a book out of all the information you have posted, I’d buy it.

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