AR Sponsor
Posted: 7/26/2012 2:16:35 PM EDT
|
Hello I ordered a fail zero full auto kit that includes a hammer the hammer is a full auto hammer and has a little spur (i dont know the technical name) coming off the back of the hammer. My question is will this work/cause any malfunctions in a semi auto lower
the fail zero kit is a nickel boron coated upper receiver, m16 style bolt carrier group, and charging handle, they also include a hammer (not really sure why) but the upper itself does not make it a class III or isnt breaking any laws its just full auto rated meaning this could withstand full auto fire |
|
I know, I'm not sure what these guys are thinking the hammer definitely wont make it fire in full auto without a full auto sear. My questions basically was strictly asking if the spur on the back part of the hammer with cause any hangups or malfunctions
Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah I belive it can cause burst everynow and then I've seen it. Also if you don't have a class 3 licence it Is very illegal, prison time illegal . Just saying It (the hammer alone)will not cause burst. Edit: or full auto for that matter. |
|
Quoted:
I know, I'm not sure what these guys are thinking the hammer definitely wont make it fire in full auto without a full auto sear. My questions basically was strictly asking if the spur on the back part of the hammer with cause any hangups or malfunctions Quoted:
Quoted:
Yeah I belive it can cause burst everynow and then I've seen it. Also if you don't have a class 3 licence it Is very illegal, prison time illegal . Just saying It (the hammer alone)will not cause burst. Edit: or full auto for that matter. No, but for legal reasons it is not recommended. Does it have an M16 disconnector? You might want to send that thing back. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
The M16 hammer will work fine, just grind off the "hook" - it serves no purpose in your build. thats what I was thinking about doing but dont want to ruin a nickel boron hammer It will not make your gun fire full auto. It will not make your gun malfunction. It is not illegal as it will not make your gun fire full auto without the needed trigger,disco,selector and sear. |
|
Quoted:
Yeah I belive it can cause burst everynow and then I've seen it. Also if you don't have a class 3 licence it Is very illegal, prison time illegal , not worth messing around. Just saying ^ completely disregard this post. It is pointless to even address the fail in his words. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why didn't you just buy an AR15 trigger kit? your not understanding what im asking...read it again No, I'm asking you as to why you ordered an M16 kit and not AR15. There's no up-side to having M16 FCG in a semi gun This kit isnt a trigger assembly or a fcg however you want to say it its a m16 style bolt carrier group that includes a nickel boron hammer I suppose the upper kit includes the hammer so it runs even smother I guess. Its just the hammer all you do is simply replace the hammer that is already in your rifle and keep the same disconnect and trigger in place, no other m16 fire controls. jeeze noone has heard of a fail zero upper kit? |
|
Are we sure the "spur" he is talking about is the m16 spur and not just the back side of a normal ar15 trigger?
There are some bad and illegal suggestions on here, why the hell do noobs post about things they know nothing about. Click and learn If its the real deal m16 trigger, it's bad, not ok, not fine, bad, 10 years in jail bad. These people put guys like us in jail for malfunctioning guns that fire multiple rounds at a time. Permanently alter your m16 trigger (if it is) to ar15 pattern, fancy coatings arn't worth a ruined life. |
|
Title 26 ,Subtitle E, Chapter 53, Subchapter B, Part I, § 5845 defines a machinegun as "any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person." A M16 hammer is a part designed for and exclusively used in a machinegun. It is therefore a part that would become a machinegun if installed in an AR-15 that malfunctioned and did double or multi fire, even though the use of the M16 hammer itself could not create the malfunction. It is not an unlikely scenario that even bump firing, whether on purpose or by "limp wristing" could draw the wrong kind of attention and upon examination of the AR could present a problem. The ATF can make any AR fire more then one shot if they are really looking to do so. In short it's use is butting right up to the line, it's up to you if the risk is worth it. As for the FA bolt carrier, it is not a part designed exclusively for a machinegun. The original AR used that design in a SA rifle. So simply having the "FA" carrier is not the same as having a M16 hammer installed. I'm no lawyer and this is not legal advice. It is good advice however. Cut the spur off, play it safe. |
|
Quoted:
Title 26 ,Subtitle E, Chapter 53, Subchapter B, Part I, § 5845 defines a machinegun as "any weapon which shoots, is designed to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of the trigger. The term shall also include the frame or receiver of any such weapon, any part designed and intended solely and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use in converting a weapon into a machinegun, and any combination of parts from which a machinegun can be assembled if such parts are in the possession or under the control of a person." A M16 hammer is a part designed for and exclusively used in a machinegun. It is therefore a part that would become a machinegun if installed in an AR-15 that malfunctioned and did double or multi fire, even though the use of the M16 hammer itself could not create the malfunction. It is not an unlikely scenario that even bump firing, whether on purpose or by "limp wristing" could draw the wrong kind of attention and upon examination of the AR could present a problem. The ATF can make any AR fire more then one shot if they are really looking to do so. In short it's use is butting right up to the line, it's up to you if the risk is worth it. As for the FA bolt carrier, it is not a part designed exclusively for a machinegun. The original AR used that design in a SA rifle. So simply having the "FA" carrier is not the same as having a M16 hammer installed. I'm no lawyer and this is not legal advice. It is good advice however. Cut the spur off, play it safe. +1 on this - altering the hammer... just get a new hammer if you are not going to put it in. You can have all the full auto parts you want in the upper but you have to be careful about having it in the lower. Your best bet is to call up the ATF and ask... if it is something that you aren't supposed to have turn it in and it shouldn't be a problem... just explain what happened and they will respect that. If they say that it is ok, get them to send you a letter stating that opinion because some guy at the ATF told me it was ok does not stand up in court but a letter from the ATF is permissible. I know you don't have the disconnectors ect but I wouldn't run the risk of having it in your rifle without express permission from the ATF. If you do not feel comfortable calling them since you already have it in your possession I will be more than happy to call them for you. |
|
Quoted:
Hello I ordered a fail zero full auto kit that includes a hammer the hammer is a full auto hammer and has a little spur (i dont know the technical name) coming off the back of the hammer. My question is will this work/cause any malfunctions in a semi auto lower the fail zero kit is a nickel boron coated upper receiver, m16 style bolt carrier group, and charging handle, they also include a hammer (not really sure why) but the upper itself does not make it a class III or isnt breaking any laws its just full auto rated meaning this could withstand full auto fire Hey, what's your address? I have a free pizza I'd like to deliver. Love, A Black Helicopter Pilot 
|
|
Quoted:
Are we sure the "spur" he is talking about is the m16 spur and not just the back side of a normal ar15 trigger? There are some bad and illegal suggestions on here, why the hell do noobs post about things they know nothing about. Click and learn If its the real deal m16 trigger, it's bad, not ok, not fine, bad, 10 years in jail bad. These people put guys like us in jail for malfunctioning guns that fire multiple rounds at a time. Permanently alter your m16 trigger (if it is) to ar15 pattern, fancy coatings arn't worth a ruined life. Ummm.....seeing as how the OP said HAMMER a few dozen times on page 1 I'd wager a guess he's talking about the HAMMER  I've seen the kits,
x1 Complete NB BCG (AUTO) and x1 NB M16 Hammer why not just grind off the happy tooth and be done with it? That's a very thin grey line there, and there are too many idiots around that could cause a long drawn out explanation to be needed with the uneducated officer friendly. This is about what 90% of the range officers at our range would do if they saw one in my lower "Mister police man! Mister police man! this guy has one of those scary automatic assault rifle thingy's over here! (that would be my luck if I installed it )
|
| Sheesh. If it's just a hammer with a hook, I don't see the big deal. We're not talking about an open tail trigger, disconnector, and three position selector that allows a slam fire to run wild and earn a conviction. Look at the old preban PWA lowers in the EE; they have M16 hammers, and it's not a big deal. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
The M16 hammer will work fine, just grind off the "hook" - it serves no purpose in your build. thats what I was thinking about doing but dont want to ruin a nickel boron hammer It will not make your gun fire full auto. It will not make your gun malfunction. It is not illegal as it will not make your gun fire full auto without the needed trigger,disco,selector and sear. Correct. This hammer also has more weight behind it as it strikes the firing pin. That is a good thing in my opinion... |
|
Quoted:
Sheesh. If it's just a hammer with a hook, I don't see the big deal. We're not talking about an open tail trigger, disconnector, and three position selector that allows a slam fire to run wild and earn a conviction. Look at the old preban PWA lowers in the EE; they have M16 hammers, and it's not a big deal. This! Gotta love the internet. |
|
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sheesh. If it's just a hammer with a hook, I don't see the big deal. We're not talking about an open tail trigger, disconnector, and three position selector that allows a slam fire to run wild and earn a conviction. Look at the old preban PWA lowers in the EE; they have M16 hammers, and it's not a big deal. This! Gotta love the internet. Look up David Olofson. you tell me, is a part that cheap and easy to fix worth it? The BATF has prosecuted over this, this isn't Internet myth. They have stated repeatedly any m16 only parts are illegal. Another member and my self posted links and written laws directly pointing this out. Will you most likely be fine? Never get in trouble? Sure, but all it take is a scared neighbor reporting a man with a gun, or a nosy cop, or one jazzed up ATF agent looking to make his first bust. Sure I may be paranoid, but it's a 10 dollar part. |
| There was a case where I guy who let his friend borrow a rifle had a mechanical malfunction where the rifle fired off 4 or 5 shots with 1 trigger pull and the guy.. a serviceman got prosecuted over that so I dont think its paranoia...ATF has ruled FA carriers are fine but when it comes to the fire control group I wouldnt screw around with that. |
AR Sponsor
Join the Community
Your next conversation starts here.
Create your free account to join discussions, share your experience, save topics, and connect with the AR15.COM community.
- Join discussions
- Follow topics and replies
- Connect with fellow enthusiasts
Already a member? Sign in
Stay informed by subscribing to our Newsletter