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MT, USA
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Posted: 10/22/2003 9:50:25 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#1]
I suspect you are right. I looked at a FIRSH at a gun show and it sure seemed heavier than that. Here's some more wieghts to help complete the chart. I emailed bushmaster and First/Samco to see what the wieghts of their handguards were. Bushmaster BMAS: Rifle length-22.75 oz Carbine-14.15 oz First/Samco M33 hanguard only 6 oz + 2.5 (delta/nut)=8.5 oz M44s handguard only 6.48 oz + 2.5 = 8.98 oz M44L handguard only 11.76 oz + 2.5 = 14.25 oz |
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Posted: 10/22/2003 10:07:38 AM EDT
[#2]
Thanks to all that have helped thus far!
Can anyone with an uninstalled FIRSH verify the weight with the required hardware? |
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2003 8:08:14 PM EDT
[#3]
Food for Thought: The overall wt. of the weapon after instalation of a rail system like the SIR M's, needs to be figured/deducted too. For instance, if the Delta Ring ASSembly is removed and not replaced, that will then eliminate aprox. 2 pz. of wt. off the weapon, and thats what it is realy all about isn't it?.
Good shootin, Jack |
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2003 8:24:14 PM EDT
[Last Edit: AKM]
[#4]
Perhaps it's just me but your chart is a bit misleading.
I see you add the weight of the barrelnut, weld spring and delta ring to the RASII. Do you do the same with the SIR "C" models or the standard RAS? And if so, why? The Barrel nut, weldspring and delta ring are part of the barrel assembly. Handguards are just that, handguards even though they may utilize parts from the barrel assembly for attachment. Noting if handguards use (or do not use) standard barrel assembly parts for attachment may be more accurate. I guess what I'm trying to say is: If someone knows their standard handguard weighs 6.7 oz. and would like to know how much more a RASII would weigh then your listed 13.8oz. instead of 11.3oz. would be misleading, if not noted. |
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Posted: 10/22/2003 8:35:41 PM EDT
[#5]
I spoke with someone at GG&G about 10 days ago.
I asked them the weight of their FF Forearm; they said 2.2lbs!!!!!!!!! I hung up the phone before I realized how heavy that sounded. I may have heard them wrong, or the customer svc. rep may have given me the wrong answer. Does anyone know what the weight actually is?? Also, Does anyone out their own one, or know a retail outlet that actually has them in stock. I prepaid for mine around June??? No sign of it yet. thanks |
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Posted: 10/22/2003 8:51:12 PM EDT
[#6]
Your questions are all valid. I'm just updating the chart as we go here. It's a transitional thing. I post updates as I get them. Any numbers you find incorrect, or feel like double-checking, be my guest. I don't have every one of these items at my disposal. I need all your help to finish this thing, so we'll have a place to go for answers.
Thanks. |
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USA
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Posted: 10/22/2003 9:16:48 PM EDT
[#7]
pbuff
That sounds about right as there was a pic published here awile ago and it really looked like the 34 oz. he mentioned. Plus all the .05 cent socket head screws all over the place Jack |
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Posted: 10/22/2003 9:34:44 PM EDT
[#8]
TheRicker,
Perhaps if it is possible to have a 'dry weight option' whereas the rail users can get a feel for the rail itself then a 'installed' and full meal deal' weights as well. That way users (and the manufacturers) of systems that remove items (like barrel nuts/delta rings, and the handguards themselves) get credit for weight savings where they exist. |
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Posted: 10/22/2003 11:26:40 PM EDT
[#9]
I've been considering using multiple weight columns to better represent the data. I realize that not all these systems are created equal. I should be able to work something up in the next day, or so. I'll post the updates as I have them. Keep checking...
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MT, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2003 12:23:59 AM EDT
[#10]
Most FF tubes replace the barrel nut, ring cap etc. So the wieght you are adding to the rifle would be the wieght of the FF tube + mountig hardware.
Some designs don't replace the nut but that has to be added to the total wieght in order to be fair to the other systems (ie Daniel Defense carbine will add 8.5 oz but M44s is only 6.48 oz, but you still have the old nut on so that has to be included total 8.98 oz. Your total weapon wieght will be less with the DD tube). A unit wieght and a mounted wieght would be a good way to do it. If we get the wieghts of the individual parts (nut, delta ring, clip, cap, panels, sling mounts etc) then we can be more exact with the mounted wieght and more fair with all the systems, like ARMS. I spoke with someone at GG&G about 10 days ago. I asked them the weight of their FF Forearm; they said 2.2lbs!!!!!!!!! Holy crap, if that's true that's a real hunk of metal! You'd have to be built like Yojimbo to pack that thing around [:D]. |
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Posted: 10/23/2003 1:08:23 AM EDT
[#11]
The GGG fore end is 16 ounces. I was in the shop two weeks ago.
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Posted: 10/23/2003 9:00:38 AM EDT
[#12]
KAC 11-rib panel: 0.9oz
KAC Sling adapter (#97027) with KAC QD ball sling swivel (#97079): 1.54oz Digital postal scale |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2003 9:49:34 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#13]
I don't mind weight  as long it brings function and capability but I don't see what the GGG would do better than the others. I'd rather carry an extra mag on a mgacinch than have an extra pound of empty rail weight... |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2003 10:48:49 AM EDT
[#14]
I note that there are no PRI weights on the table. Does anyone have weights for the various PRI FF RAS?
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MT, USA
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Posted: 10/23/2003 11:30:17 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#15]
And smart too! You should have run for Governor of California (maybe smart and California just don't go together  ,only kidding Kali guys).  That's good info Bartholomew_Roberts, now the ARMS guys can feel better knowing that if you include 3 11-rib panels, you add 2.7 oz.
That's more like it! |
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CAN
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Posted: 10/23/2003 1:38:10 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#16]
When I had a short PRI M4 forend it weighed about 14.5oz. If I recall, a full-length PRI forend is 20oz. give or take an oz. Even though carbon fiber, the PRI tubes aren't light. Don't know the strength and abuse ratings for PRI versus KAC forends, but the KACs are defintitely lighter. |
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Posted: 10/23/2003 11:41:20 PM EDT
[#17]
I hope 2.2lbs was wrong, and it was closer to the 16oz mentioned.
I have my favorate AR ready for it to be installed, and I sure don't want it to weigh like it was a M249SAW. (hated carring that pig... up the hill...down the hill... up the hill........) Has anyone taken delivery of one yet??? I am still waiting, still waiting..... thanks |
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ID, USA
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Posted: 10/25/2003 10:37:58 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#18]
does the design allow removing the heat shields or unneeded rails to reduce weight without losing strength? |
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 10/26/2003 10:15:35 AM EDT
[#19]
Ridge & TheRicker,
Any new updates. Does anyone know the weight of the carbon fiber PRI system? |
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MA, USA
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Posted: 10/28/2003 8:58:12 AM EDT
[Last Edit: HarryD]
[#20]
Geohans,
I am curious as to which GG&G forend you mentioned to be 16oz.? I am guessing it to be the one w/ fixed rails. I am very curious to find out the weight of their new "Tactical Modular Full Float Forend". It looks quite nice, but I am wondering if it really weighs ~2.2lb. as was mentioned by another member. Thanks, Harry |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 10/28/2003 10:39:46 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#21]
I'm trying to get the wieghts of the individual components but I've been swamped here trying to get a roof on my house before it SNOWs  We still need to confirm the weight of the FIRSH, GG&G, and PRI. Was the wieght of your Predator system posted yet (is it in your 14 pg thead)?? I think the TheRicker might want to add that to the chart. edit: or maybe not (after reading review) 
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Posted: 11/11/2003 4:44:08 PM EDT
[#22]
While we are weighing things...
ARMS #19S with 2 10/32 screws: 2.65oz |
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Posted: 11/11/2003 4:59:32 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#23]
KAC MATCH (LONG) FF RAS, COMPLETE W/ THREE 11-RIB PANELS = 19.1 OZ
PRI RIFLE LENGTH SPR FOREND, GEN III = 18.7 OZ PRI MID-LENGTH FOREND, GEN III = 16. OZ ARMS #58-MOD SIR (M-VERSION) = 22.1 OZ WES GRANT MSTN.BIZ WES GRANT |
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Posted: 12/30/2003 8:43:28 AM EDT
[#24]
Updates added. Still working on a few things.
The chart is quickly getting out of hand. I'm trying to find a way of simplifying things. Happy New Year! |
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Posted: 12/31/2003 4:24:55 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#25]
Sorry to complicate life more, but you might wanna look into this thread: ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=3&f=12&t=175774&w=myTopicPop
Quoting Onslaught, in turn quoting YHM, "We do have a new mid-length quad rail forearm coming in two configurations. One is our standard solid forearm as seen on our web page. The weight is 1.093 pounds or 17.5 oz.. The other is our new light weight series the weight on this item is only .78 pounds or 12.5 oz.. It is 1/3 of a pound lighter. All the weights include the barrel nut and the locking nut required to mount the forearms. Both will be available in 2 weeks." Soo... Lightweight Midlength / 4 fixed rails / midlength / yes / not included / Yes / Disassemble barrel / Level, Gap / - / 12.5 Oz. / - / $128.00 Oh, and I would qualify the chart's characterization of the FIRSH as being "Level, Gap" While there is a very slight gap, it doesn't present any impediment to mounting rail devices, and certainly isn't nearly as wide a gap as the C-More or Yankee hill offerings. And the Surefire M73 isn't a level rail, as evidenced in this picture from TNRonin's review: tnrdgrnr.com/m73/images/P0000855.jpg |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 2/3/2004 1:57:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#26]
Just in from Bushmaster tech:
also:
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Posted: 2/10/2004 6:05:16 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#27]
 Handguard with one full length rail and a half rail and a skinny rail cover weights 12.5oz full size cover weights 1oz the off side mount weights 1.4oz skinny rail cover weights 0.5oz half rail weights 0.8oz and the screws weights 0.3oz you can mix and match the parts to suit your needs and figure out how much the handguard will weight with what parts installed on it |
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FL, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2004 11:55:35 AM EDT
[#28]
The Clark Carbon Fiber model is only 6oz. Should be less for a carbine.
http://www.clarkcustomguns.com/cfrifleparts.htm |
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MT, USA
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Posted: 2/20/2004 1:38:52 PM EDT
[Last Edit: Aimless]
[#29]
Yep, that beats my hiperform ultralight. It's just under 6 oz for the carbine length. [dream mode]Now I wish someone would just make on of these indexable, cut some cooling holes, and places to mount some rails. The ultimate would be removable rails like the GG&G so you could take off ones you didn't need, and also so you wouldn't need to use rail covers. Any manufacturers out there, listening? I'd bet you could do this all under 8 oz (the goal could be to meat the same weight as the standard handguards 7 oz).[/dream mode] |
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OH, USA
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Posted: 2/22/2004 6:00:44 PM EDT
[#30]
Frank,
I understand you want to sell your products but you need to tone it down a bit! I must have seen this same post at least 5 times in several different threads! I feel like you are trying to shove this product down our throats by spamming a bunch of threads. It only turns people off even more to your products when you use these forms of advertising...[rolleyes] |
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Posted: 2/22/2004 8:07:27 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By Yojimbo: I must have seen this same post at least 5 times in several different threads! ......when you use these forms of advertising...[rolleyes] Yojimbo, accurate observations you make here and thanks. (Others have also noticed the proliferation.) POF-USA, you might even give some thought to becoming an advertiser (a paying advertiser that is) here on AR15.com. Please contact "Kevin" for details. Looks as if you have interesting products and we would like to have you with us. 5sub |
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IA, USA
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Posted: 2/24/2004 3:23:50 PM EDT
[Last Edit: warriorsociologist]
[#32]
FYI:
OAL of the Armalite National Match Fiberglass Handguard Tube (rifle-length)= 11.390" Weight = 1.5 lbs. |
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AL, USA
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Posted: 3/17/2004 10:26:38 PM EDT
[#33]
Anyone know the weight of the YHM lightweight in rifle length?
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MD, USA
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Posted: 4/8/2004 11:05:36 AM EDT
[Last Edit: Forest]
[#34]
Eric @ ADCO;
Love the chart! Really makes it easy to understand the different systems & their compartivie weights. BTW could you add the weight of the standard handguards as well to aid in the comparison? I weighed the standard carbine handguards at 5oz - with the barrel nut assembly that would make it 7.5oz. |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 4/25/2004 1:21:18 AM EDT
[#35]
I'm sorry, I must be blind.....but where is Eric's chart? I don't see a link anywhere. |
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USA
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Posted: 5/1/2004 12:20:57 AM EDT
[#36]
What happened to the table with all of the weight information?
Strobe |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 5/14/2004 4:22:43 PM EDT
[#37]
First page of the thread.
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Posted: 6/11/2004 3:09:32 PM EDT
[#38]
I couldn't agree more. As it stands, I'm going to wind up drilling the holes myself. So now I have to go out & buy a drill press and a respirator (from what I've heard carbon fiber plays hell on the lungs). |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2004 1:15:25 PM EDT
[#39]
So....what are they using on the Army M4s? Isn't it the Knight Industries unit? After all, I want a proper service rifle...
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GA, USA
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Posted: 7/2/2004 3:33:31 PM EDT
[#40]
KAC M4 RAS and M5 RAS for M4 and M16A4
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AZ, USA
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Posted: 7/6/2004 12:42:21 AM EDT
[#41]
Is there more information on the weights of the YHM FF Custom Tube and Lightweight FF tube?
Is the custom YHM FF Tube level rail with the Flat Top? |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/8/2004 12:49:29 AM EDT
[#42]
Yes it's level. Did I miss it or is there a weight for the new Troy rail yet?
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Posted: 7/9/2004 10:19:11 AM EDT
[#43]
That information is available on their website www.YankeeHillMachine.com |
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Posted: 7/9/2004 10:35:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Carbine Length (Overall length: 7.2 in) Weight 10.6 oz. YHM-9631 Price: $120.00 Mid-Length (Overall length: 9.2 in) Weight 12.4 oz. YHM-9634 Price: $128.00 Specter Length (Overall length: 9.675 in) Weight 12.9 oz. YHM-9638 Price: $128.00 Rifle Length (Overall length: 12.5 in) Weight 14.75 oz. YHM-9636 Price: $199.95 |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/22/2004 7:44:27 PM EDT
[#45]
TheRicker,
Great chart, but I am wondering if something is missing. Out of all the manufacturers listed, who has mil-spec rails and who doesn't? And if they use mil-spec, are all four rails mil-spec? And one other correction for you, the GG&G does not have fixed rails, I got one from you (ADCO) on my RRA M4gery. My set up has the long rail on the top and a short rail on the bottom. I also mounted the off set rail on the right side for a Surefire light. You can remove rails, add rails and remove the hand guards to make it truly customized for the individual shooter. And if you ditch the hand guards and the rails you don't need, it drops the weight below 16oz. |
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Posted: 7/23/2004 9:01:13 AM EDT
[#46]
The only two manufacturers I know of where all four rails meet Picatinny specs for the 1913 rails are KAC and Larue. Daniel Defense has the top and bottom rail to spec; but the side rails have les depth than spec (in order to get that oval profile). |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 7/27/2004 6:23:41 PM EDT
[Last Edit: strick909]
[#47]
This just in from RRA on their quad rail forearm:
The weights of the quad rails are as follows: CAR- .9 lbs $120 MID-LENGTH- 1.1 lbs $128 STANDARD- 1.3 lbs $200 ETA: These are made by YHM |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 7/31/2004 3:23:29 AM EDT
[#48]
What is the quality of YHM parts?
Thanx. Sammy |
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TX, USA
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Posted: 8/4/2004 1:16:06 PM EDT
[#49]
Since no one else chimed in, I will. I do not have one, but I can give you a few opinions that I have heard. YHM is good for the money. YHM is a waste of money. Seriously, If you can afford a better rail, buy it. The new LaRue and the GG&G are only about $80-$100 more depending on the prices you are getting. I would suggest you talk to a dealer that offers YHM and some higher end rails. They can give you a good comparison. Grant at GandRTactical is a good source of info on LaRue. Shoot him an e-mail, he answers them pretty fast. For info on the GG&G, contact Jeff at CMMG Or Steve at ADCO Firearms I don't think the fit and finish of YHM products is that great, but it is not horrible either. Some people around here think they are great, I just think it depends on your budget and whether or not you are going to be trusting your life to your hardware. But as the saying goes, "You get what you pay for". YMMV |
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WA, USA
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Posted: 8/5/2004 2:02:56 AM EDT
[Last Edit: selfishselfless]
[#50]
Thanx. Exactly the information I was looking for. So GG&G and LaRue are both good products?
Thanx. Sammy |
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