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Posted: 1/31/2012 4:06:44 PM EDT
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So I recently got a first gen EO Tech magnifier, with a LaRue flip to side mount. I hadn't previously had the opportunity to train with it, so it hasn't been on any of my rifles except to play around with it and get used to it.
This past week, we've been doing force on force training evolutions at work with MILES, so I figured this would be a great opportunity to put it through its paces. This is what I've learned... 1 ) The LaRue mount flips out of the way to the left. When the magnifier is "out of the way" it makes it difficult to get at the charging handle (you get a lot of practice clearing malfunctions with blanks), and if you're breathing heavy (running around and trying to not get shot) you can fog up the rear lens since it's right in front of your nose/ mouth, which isn't good if you suddenly need that 3x for a long shot. 2 ) Large amount of optical offset. I tried running the magnifier inline full-time, and just doing both eyes open shooting (Bindon concept I think?). However, even at relatively short range (~15-25 yds), the difference in POA was about 2-3 feet off at about the 10 to 11 o'clock. What I mean is, with the gun stable, and the RDS viewed through the magnifier at a certain point of aim, with both eyes open, the reticule appeared to be about 2-3 feet up and to the left. Close to mid-range shooting is basically impossible with both eyes open. I don't know if rotating the mag in the mount would help mitigate this, what do you think? 3 ) Choose the right mount. On my personal ARs, I have an Aimpoint M3 on a cantilever and an EO Tech on a QD riser, so the LaRue mount I went with was the correct height for those. The weapon I was issued, however, had a plain-jane 511. When viewed through the magnifier, the outer ring of the EO Tech is almost to the top of the magnifier, and the base takes up a good chunk (about 1/4 to 1/3) of the sight picture at the bottom, since the EO sits different than my personal guns. 4 ) Since we were using MILES, we had BFAs. Weapons were 16" M-4 type with a2 flash hiders. For some reason, the armorer has all the BFAs set up with the wide open end at the 12 o'clock. In low lighting, this throws a huge flash into your sight picture, and the mag seems to exacerbate the effect. This basically results in making quick and accurate follow-up shots next to impossible (see #2 above). Easiest solution to mitigate this issue would be to rotate the BFA 90 degrees to it flames out horizontal instead of vertical. This would also probably be a non-issue with live rounds and no BFA, but what is your experience? 5 ) Eye relief. I moved the EO 511 way forward, and had the magnifier nut-to-butt on it, and I still wouldn't have had room to mount a BUIS. I also had to set the stock way shorter than I'm generally used to in order to get a good sight picture. If not for an issue peculiar to my particular application, I could have moved the magnifier back maybe 2-3 slots on the flat top, which would have mitigated the LOP issue, but a) still no room for a BUIS, and b) mount would be directly over the charging handle. I welcome your thoughts and opinions, gentlemen and ladies... |
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Which LaRue FTS do you have? Their FTS mounts can be flipped either left or right. One of the problems with it flipping to the left is that it's blocking your left eye and limits your peripheral vision since it's so close to your eye.
Also, BAC applies to all optics with illuminated reticles. You will have a difference between POI/POA, depending your level of phoria. |
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I've got an LT670. As far as blocking peripheral vision goes, I don't glue my eye to the sight. I keep the weapon up and looking over the top of the RDS, snap up to take a shot, then put it back down.
I figured I could just mount the mag the other way, but it looks like I'd be losing space between the mag and the RDS. Don't know if that would be an issue. I expected some degree of offset with both eyes open shooting, but not 2-3 feet at ~15-25 yds. I'm not sure what "phoria" is; I looked on wiki and all I got was a band. Any chance it could just be the way the reflectors are aligned? Could rotating the mag in the mount mitigate this offset? Currently the purge screw is at about the 10 or 11 o'clock when "inline". |
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The distance between the mag and RDS won't make much difference, unless you want to save rail space for a BUIS and don't want your EOTech hanging over the receiver.
And yes, the offset can be huge at that distance. Shooting occluded is not recommended past 15 yards. Look up ACOG phoria and you'll see some posts about this. It has nothing to do with your setup but the distance between your eyes and how your brain processes the difference between the projected reticle and the true POA. |
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I'll definitely look that up, but I'm wondering how dedicated occluded sights such as the Armson (sp?) work at all if a both eyes open approach isn't good even as close as 15 yds. Unless it's different with a magnified optic/ magnifier - RDS vs. something like an Armson
ETA: I'm particularly interested in this whole occluded/ optical offset issue due to the fact that I'm in the NV market, and may not be able to lay hands on an IR laser anytime soon. |
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FWIW, the BFA attachment with the rounded edges to the top and a 12 o'clock opening is technically "correct."
At the same time, it doesn't matter one iota how the BFA is attached as long as it's tightened down properly. I usually orient mine at a 3/4 position with the openings at 2 o'clock and 8 o'clock to avoid the muzzle flash issues you described - I'm a right handed shooter, and it keeps the flash out of my LOS both with my weak eye and my sight picture. I'm not a big fan of magnifiers, either, but it sounds like you've got some interoperability issues that exacerbate the magnifier's problems compared to usual, like incompatible mount heights and flipping "to the wrong side." I think I'd personally rather have the magnifier be tighter towards the optic than have it flip towards me, and not away. ~Augee |
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Thanks for the input Augee. I don't know if the armorer thinks he's helping reduce "muzzle flip" some some such silliness, but we're dealing with blanks here. No recoil. The rounded edge opening of the BFA is at the 6 o'clock.
I'm definitely going to to try running it so it flips away to the right instead of left, and see how that goes. With the LaRue mount, that means I'll be pulling instead of pushing the mag in order to flip it, which makes more sense to me anyway. I'll lose a bit of room, but hey, life is full of compromises. Overall, I think the biggest lesson here is train with your gear. If I had just thrown the mag on my duty or personal weapon, I wouldn't have known what I know now, and would have had to learn the hard way on a two-way range. This training evolution has definitely given me the opportunity to shakedown my gear and learn some interesting stuff. ETA: Any day you learn something new is a good day. |
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