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Link Posted: 4/21/2009 9:07:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/21/2009 9:07:30 PM EST by tx51210]
I am boycotting some Wallmarts around that I have been checking.  Today went to one store and they had a sign up "One Box Per Day Per Customer"  
They had a little inventory on hand but I told the guy he could keep all of it, I would not be dealing with them.  Socialist behavior should not be tolerated.


Course I just got in a shipment of .40 yesterday so it was easier to be arrogant.
Link Posted: 4/21/2009 10:22:25 PM EST
so earlier today, Palmetto State Armory was selling Brown Bear for 150/500 rounds in .223.  they were also selling silver bear for 165/500 rounds in x39.  so why the hell did it become cheaper to shoot my AR than it is to shoot my AK?  does this make sense to anybody else?
Link Posted: 4/22/2009 4:29:11 AM EST
Originally Posted By frimel:
so earlier today, Palmetto State Armory was selling Brown Bear for 150/500 rounds in .223.  they were also selling silver bear for 165/500 rounds in x39.  so why the hell did it become cheaper to shoot my AR than it is to shoot my AK?  does this make sense to anybody else?


yes

Link Posted: 4/22/2009 6:48:16 PM EST
Wow, just looked at Sportsman's Guide and they are listing October 30, 2009 for expected resupply of Federal .40 cal ammo.
Wonder if there is a quarterly production run issue with the manufacturer or if there is something else going on.
Link Posted: 4/22/2009 7:20:15 PM EST
I love these assclowns over at Surplus Ammo. First it was $449 for 5k of .22lr, now its $479 for 1k of PMC?!? $459 for 1k of S&B?!? Ive said it once and I'll say it again. I gave them lots of orders, and now those price gouging bastards can kiss my ass just like ATG. You may make a bigger profit now, but your losing long time business.
Link Posted: 4/22/2009 7:30:43 PM EST
Originally Posted By tx51210:
I am boycotting some Wallmarts around that I have been checking.  Today went to one store and they had a sign up "One Box Per Day Per Customer"  
They had a little inventory on hand but I told the guy he could keep all of it, I would not be dealing with them.  Socialist behavior should not be tolerated.


Just an FYI...Walmart is having trouble with smaller guns shop owners at the doors when they open and buying all the ammo they(Walmart) has and then turning around and reselling it.  And Walmart is not the only dealer limiting ammo quantities.  I know it's hard not to be pissed when they're limiting what YOU can buy.   Try to look at it this way, what if you walked up to a gun counter and wanted a few boxes of XXX ammo but the guy behind the counter said "you're too late...I just sold every box I had to the customer that just left"  You'd probably wish they'd limited the purchase amount so you would have been able to at least get something.  Just saying!  

Link Posted: 4/23/2009 12:57:37 PM EST
Good point.  The basic laws of economics 'should' kick in at some point and bring some sanity back to the ammo market.  The real estate pundits said for years that "housing only goes up in price" and we saw what happened with that market, I don't see where ammunition is exempt from 'market forces' taking over and bring the price back down to a reasonable level.   When Wolf has the stones to up their price (it's on the line of gouging in my opinion) for their mediocre product there is something really wrong in the market place.

I was only mildly surprised when Eric Holder politicized the Mexico drug issue back in February and uttered the 'AW" word.  I hope that people are smart enough to realize the hype and outright lies behind team Hope Hype on the Mexico drug issue.


Link Posted: 4/23/2009 3:04:43 PM EST
I started accumulating ammo in November.  I built a "little stash" and predicted that things would start returning to normal about now.  Well, things haven't worked out like I planned and everything is upside down.  Shelves are empty everywhere.  

Every day the news media covers BHO's latest move / blunder, people must jump out of their seats and load up.

I don't get to shoot as much as I'd like so my "little stash" is holding up nicely.  I'm starting to get that queasy feeling that I should conserve what I have.  That feeling can mean only one thing.  

I'm getting on the phone and placing some new orders.

This is going to be a nice case study for an economics class someday.
Link Posted: 4/23/2009 5:40:57 PM EST
All of these people that have bought new rifles in the past 6 months are now buying ammo. If everyone would bite the bullet, "no pun intended"
for 6 months and not buy ammo, I guarantee prices will come down. When inventory begins to sit in warehouses, everyone will lower their prices.
It is that simple, supply and demand.
Link Posted: 4/23/2009 7:14:42 PM EST
Interesting other side to the chaos of ammo shortages.  I have met a few other good shooters by bumping into them during regular rounds of store checks and had a number of offhand fun conversations on the sport.  They say misery loves company and it's always fun to swap info and stories with other shooters.
Link Posted: 4/23/2009 10:30:08 PM EST
Now I've seen everything. Natchez had Fed M193 ammo "on sale" for $750/1000 plus a stiff shipping fee. The world has definitely gone insane. They must be drinking the same Kool-Aide that S/G was drinking asking $800/1000 for Win M855 ammo a few weeks back. This is totally nuts! Thank the good Lord I don't need to buy any 5.56mm ammo right now and can just sit back and watch this circus from the sidelines.
Link Posted: 4/24/2009 7:37:31 AM EST
I think there will be a crash in ammo prices at some point in the next few years.  The supply demand curve will change and prices will fall accordingly.  On the demand side, the military is already using less ammo in Iraq and as our current president begins his withdrawal plan demand will further decline.  There is a lot of panic buying with rumors that a huge ammo tax will be passed or some other nameless fear.  I think this has little if any chance of happening.  Gun owners are too politically strong right now and will be for the foreseeable future.   When that reality sinks in people who were buying ammo as a profit making strategy will start to dump it before prices go down.  Thus ammo supply will increase.  Ammo manufacturers will begin to increase supply from their end and prices are very likely to fall.  Instead of paying irrational prices for ammo right now I'll be sending an extra donation to the NRA.  IMHO it is a much better "investment" for a gun owner to make.
Link Posted: 4/24/2009 8:10:14 AM EST
Reasonable thought and capitalist analysis but some may be forgetting other things BHO could do without forcing passage of legislation.  We have Treasury who could declare some thing or things as dangerous devices.  Additionally, they could ban the importation of ammo or components.  Clinton did this with firearms and/or components (its beena while and I can't remember the specifics).  Imagine what an importation ban would do with ammunition currently or even down the road.  All those LC seconds could be destroyed as well and brass, that threat recently subsided, at least temporarily.
Link Posted: 4/24/2009 9:31:52 AM EST
Originally Posted By BamaInArk:
Originally Posted By tx51210:
I am boycotting some Wallmarts around that I have been checking.  Today went to one store and they had a sign up "One Box Per Day Per Customer"  
They had a little inventory on hand but I told the guy he could keep all of it, I would not be dealing with them.  Socialist behavior should not be tolerated.


Just an FYI...Walmart is having trouble with smaller guns shop owners at the doors when they open and buying all the ammo they(Walmart) has and then turning around and reselling it.  And Walmart is not the only dealer limiting ammo quantities.  I know it's hard not to be pissed when they're limiting what YOU can buy.   Try to look at it this way, what if you walked up to a gun counter and wanted a few boxes of XXX ammo but the guy behind the counter said "you're too late...I just sold every box I had to the customer that just left"  You'd probably wish they'd limited the purchase amount so you would have been able to at least get something.  Just saying!  



Limiting quantities is what will start to turn things around.  Locally all shops are limiting sales, and most have the same type of sign up which explains that it is better to have something than to have nothing because the last person bought the entire shipment.  

As too the previous posts about raising the prices until people stop buying;  the manufacturers are also hurting for inventory.  They may boost shifts to help make the backlog provided they have sufficient stock on hand to make the parts.  When they are running short of raw materials, they would be stupid to increase production.  When their warehouse is sitting empty because as fast as it is produced it is out the door does not make for a comfortable feeling.  

Part of the problem is the run on reloading components.  The same parts they use to make ammo we use to roll our own.  They have to separate out some of the component production just to keep the reloaders happy and that reduces their available stock as they try to catch up on production.  

I myself am waiting on 20K of primers.  They are the primary component for reloading.  For each caliber I can reuse my brass, I can use dozens of different bullets, I can use several different powders by several different manufacturers, but I am limited in my choices for primers.  

I have pretty much stopped purchasing ammo.  I picked up 2K of greentip when it was under $300/K and still have over 1K left,  I still have 2K of 9MM and about 500 .40.  I will not pay the current prices just to stock up on factory ammo.  When my primers get in I will start reloading my empties, but I will limit my shooting until prices start to come back down and inventory starts to stay on the shelves rather than straight out the door as fast as the box can be emptied.
Link Posted: 4/24/2009 4:18:24 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/24/2009 4:29:36 PM EST by vmpglenn]
N/M
Link Posted: 4/24/2009 10:56:58 PM EST
ok, i know the whole supply and demand thing...and A LOT of the problem is all of us freaking out and buying shit tons of ammo as soon as places get it...but what pissed me off is this...

a lot of the people buying these places out ar fucking worms that just resell it for proffit...free market i know, but they are still asholes...

sencond this THIS IS REALY PISSING ME OFF...ok, nacheze...you know i have bought a lot off them in the past...but here is the thing...with the shit economy all the components, brass, lead, ect have all gone way down or stayed the same, which means the ammo makers are making the ammo for cheaper, and they are selling it to the distributers for the same price that they were selling it to them 8 months ago...so basicaly the distributers are marking it up way way way way more...again the free market thing i know but, with gun and ammo dealers i guess i just expect a little more ethics...i mean, we got Obama and the dems trying to turn us towards scocialism and trying to take away our gun rights...and then you got good people like us who support a free market and capitalism and then the ammo dealers who should be on our side turn around and use the same free market we wanna protect to fuck us up the ass...like i said, i just expect better ethics...and you know what...fuck nachesse, ill never spend a dime with them again...i mean there latest prices are so bad...to me they are in the same catigory of cheaper then dirt now, FUCK um...and if everyone of us would just say, fuck you im not overpaying for ammo then the bubble would burst, production would catch up and prices would fall...

end of rant....
Link Posted: 4/25/2009 12:25:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By Heineken:
ok, i know the whole supply and demand thing...and A LOT of the problem is all of us freaking out and buying shit tons of ammo as soon as places get it...but what pissed me off is this...

a lot of the people buying these places out ar fucking worms that just resell it for proffit...free market i know, but they are still asholes...

sencond this THIS IS REALY PISSING ME OFF...ok, nacheze...you know i have bought a lot off them in the past...but here is the thing...with the shit economy all the components, brass, lead, ect have all gone way down or stayed the same, which means the ammo makers are making the ammo for cheaper, and they are selling it to the distributers for the same price that they were selling it to them 8 months ago...so basicaly the distributers are marking it up way way way way more...again the free market thing i know but, with gun and ammo dealers i guess i just expect a little more ethics...i mean, we got Obama and the dems trying to turn us towards scocialism and trying to take away our gun rights...and then you got good people like us who support a free market and capitalism and then the ammo dealers who should be on our side turn around and use the same free market we wanna protect to fuck us up the ass...like i said, i just expect better ethics...and you know what...fuck nachesse, ill never spend a dime with them again...i mean there latest prices are so bad...to me they are in the same catigory of cheaper then dirt now, FUCK um...and if everyone of us would just say, fuck you im not overpaying for ammo then the bubble would burst, production would catch up and prices would fall...

end of rant....


I hear ya exactly dude.  People can only spend so much money and obtain so much ammo before they have to PAY the bills to afford that ammo.  In other words, I am waiting for the market on ammo to fall like mad and THEN I will buy ammo when people are almost paying others to get it off their hands.
Link Posted: 4/25/2009 1:54:35 AM EST
My local walmart has started placing a non-removable sticker that says something to this effect: "Sold at WalMart, if you purchase this product from any other store please contact us" - on most of their ammo sold. Im happy about this as im starting to see a little more ammo on the shelves.
Link Posted: 4/25/2009 7:06:57 AM EST
Originally Posted By BULaw:
I think there will be a crash in ammo prices at some point in the next few years.  The supply demand curve will change and prices will fall accordingly.  On the demand side, the military is already using less ammo in Iraq and as our current president begins his withdrawal plan demand will further decline.  There is a lot of panic buying with rumors that a huge ammo tax will be passed or some other nameless fear.  I think this has little if any chance of happening.  Gun owners are too politically strong right now and will be for the foreseeable future.   When that reality sinks in people who were buying ammo as a profit making strategy will start to dump it before prices go down.  Thus ammo supply will increase.  Ammo manufacturers will begin to increase supply from their end and prices are very likely to fall.  Instead of paying irrational prices for ammo right now I'll be sending an extra donation to the NRA.  IMHO it is a much better "investment" for a gun owner to make.


Hyper inflation that we most certainly will see in the coming years, will drive up ammo prices and the prices of everything else... into the stratosphere. The spending hussein  and the Fed are doing, will ensure that this will happen. You had better buy everything that you want, need or can afford now. Later it will be much higher in price and those prices will continue to climb due to the Dollars value declining because of the massive 10 trillion Dollar Federal debt.

FS
Link Posted: 4/25/2009 8:43:27 AM EST
Originally Posted By CAR_16:
Originally Posted By mPisi:
Department of Duh:
http://i204.photobucket.com/albums/bb94/mPisi/IMG00995.jpg


There is the ever-present box of 22-250. It's at my Wal-Mart too.


Mine, too!
Link Posted: 4/25/2009 12:13:47 PM EST
Originally Posted By retrodog:
I was at Wal-Mart today and some total tool bought all 16 boxes of .223 ammo. I confronted him in the parking lot about it and he threatened me with a rear naked chicken choke. So I walked. I didn't need any of that crap.


Confronted him about what?  16 boxes really isn't that much, 320 rounds.  Should he have left some boxes for you to be "fair"?  And then he threatened you.  What did you expect?
Link Posted: 4/25/2009 11:15:37 PM EST
Originally Posted By 951bulldog:
Originally Posted By retrodog:
I was at Wal-Mart today and some total tool bought all 16 boxes of .223 ammo. I confronted him in the parking lot about it and he threatened me with a rear naked chicken choke. So I walked. I didn't need any of that crap.


Confronted him about what?  16 boxes really isn't that much, 320 rounds.  Should he have left some boxes for you to be "fair"?  And then he threatened you.  What did you expect?


I was thinking the 100 round value packs.  1600 rounds.  I understand him though.  Some people just don't have any common decency for others.  Buy a few at a time not everything a store has.
Link Posted: 4/26/2009 12:05:00 PM EST
Guys, get over it.  Life sucks sometimes, but it really is supply and demand.  When a manufacturer or distributor can't keep any inventory, the product is under-priced for the market.  The natural thing to do is to raise the price until they find the point where demand drops.  If you think it should work any different, you're thinking communism or socialism.  It's just the way it is.  Why does Natchez say that XM193 is sold out, even though the case price is over $600?!?!?  You can bet they wish they could get more in stock at that price level!



And if I find a deal I like, I'm going to buy as much as I can afford.  When Aussie .308 first came into the states, I went in with some locals and bought almost more than my truck could haul back from the pickup point.  Now I've been out of work for the past 5 months (automotive engineer) and I sold the last of it for 4X what I bought for 8 years ago.  If it comes down to it, I'll sell my .223 stash as well to pay my mortgage (unlike those the feds are bailing out) and buy food.  But unless you can show that someone is intentionally limiting the quantity available to jack up the price (like OPEC likes to do), it's just free market.



Now what we really have to worry about is CIFTA.  I can see Obama pushing that through and then, about 6 months later, some third world country or the UN sues us and says we're in violation of the treaty.  Then they'd have to require all of us to get a license to reload our own ammo or modify our own guns.  Now that is a very scary and possible scenario.



-Tim
Link Posted: 4/26/2009 10:18:23 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/26/2009 10:18:43 PM EST by stevemr2t]
Natchezz

Whhooo! 180 less rounds than last week but they throw in a ammo can
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 3:17:18 AM EST
Originally Posted By BULaw:
Fear and Greed Have Sales of Guns and Ammo Shooting Up from the WSJ

Anyone wondering why there are ammo and semiauto shortages should read this.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123984046627223159.html


Classic sign of a bubble about to burst.  People who know nothing (or are new) about what they are investing in buying at high prices because they think there will be a bigger fool.  Its happened many times before in many different markets.  The results are always the same.  The bubble bursts.  Unfortunately, the peak is pretty much impossible to predict.  This could last 3 months or 3 years... there really is no telling when dumb ass speculators are selling to other dumb ass speculators... hopefully it crashes hard and we can get some cool stuff at rock bottom prices
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 10:44:29 AM EST
Originally Posted By tlc:
But unless you can show that someone is intentionally limiting the quantity available to jack up the price (like OPEC likes to do), it's just free market.


ummmm, go check out a gunstore.....perfect example of "limiting the quantity available to jack up the price".


Classic arms just posted a slew of different wolf calibers I think thurs or fri......they seem to have oversold all they had....

Link Posted: 4/27/2009 12:13:43 PM EST
I posted this before in this thread and the price was absolutely ridiculous at almost $900/k after shipping
Guess what!!
Its know $1,000 before shipping
$1,000 for 1,000 rounds!!!! That is outrageous, then add $20 shipping your paying well over $1 a bullet. Honestly, What the Hell!!!!
They just raised an already ridiculous price by over $100. Outrageous.

http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/federal-lake-city-mil-spec-gi-223-556x45-mm-ammo.aspx?a=140094
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 6:26:17 PM EST
Why does Natchez say that XM193 is sold out, even though the case price is over $600?!?!?


Because some people have more money(probably credit) than they have sense.
Link Posted: 4/27/2009 8:40:31 PM EST
I was at my local funstore a few weeks ago, saw over 25 boxes of Federal SP 5.56 for $8.59 a box. Went back a few days later to pick some up and every box was marked $18.59. I thought what the hell, I asked and yep, that's todays price. How many you want? None at that price and turned around and walked out. Might be a little while before I can stand to go back in there.  

Smitty
Link Posted: 4/28/2009 11:55:10 AM EST
People over in EE are f*cked in the head.

Asking $17 a box for Blazer Brass that I can walk in the door and pick up at Wal-mart for $8.97 a box?

And $21 a box for .40 that I can pick up for $13.47?

People have gone batshit insane.  This whole thing is far beyond being out of control.

Even one of my local favorite stores has lost their marbles.  About 2 months back, I bought a 1k round case of .40 from Surplus Ammo for $275.  That same case is now $340.


Just wow...  
Link Posted: 4/28/2009 10:23:20 PM EST
Here's my take on the ammo situation.


I've been thinking a lot about ammo prices and I believe there will be a correction in the market.  When I got to the Chantilly gun show at 3pm on Friday, guys were making a beeline for the ammo dealers, including some with personal handtrucks.  Have I seen a similar increase in the number of guys shooting .223 at the range?  No.  That tells me that what is going on right now is hoarding with the anticipation that Obama is going to ban the import of rifle ammo, which will lead to appreciation of existing personal inventories.  When people who are making avg/median incomes start looking at that $10,000 worth of ammo in the garage, that is now worth $7,000, and realize that they could be spending it on dinners out, stocks, hookers, blow, etc, they're going to start selling it.  Even a serious survivalist realizes that they don't need more than a couple of thousand rifle rounds.  They're also at the point now where they ask themselves if they really want to pull a trigger to send $0.50 down the range.  The opportunity cost is simply too high.  Why not light a cigar with a dollar bill?   And when that realization happens, look out.  People who buy speculative investments (e.g. an AR lower that they expect to appreciate if there's an AWB) and watch the price start to come down start ditching it.  AOL stock (1998-99), real estate (2004-2006), crude oil (summer 2008) are recent examples.

Pmags and lowers were in very short supply after the election, and look where they are now- everywhere.  

Link Posted: 4/28/2009 10:32:47 PM EST
i lived through Hugo in Charleston and let me tell you it was several weeks of no power, and a week of no municipal water. It wasn't Katrina conditions, but it was alot worse than I thought it would be and we were not prepared. There was flooding in places i had no idea could flood and tree and roof damage everywhere. The national guard was posted up at the local Food Lion, which was cleaned the F out of course. It is no joke and anyone on here should consider has a hurricane plan that includes at a minimum cash, batteries, flashlights, foodstuffs, gas grill and LP gas, a good knife, and the obvious EBR and sidearm.

Link Posted: 4/29/2009 10:58:36 AM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2009 11:00:43 AM EST by SewerCow]
Originally Posted By FrankSL:
Here's my take on the ammo situation.


I've been thinking a lot about ammo prices and I believe there will be a correction in the market.  When I got to the Chantilly gun show at 3pm on Friday, guys were making a beeline for the ammo dealers, including some with personal handtrucks.  Have I seen a similar increase in the number of guys shooting .223 at the range?  No.  That tells me that what is going on right now is hoarding with the anticipation that Obama is going to ban the import of rifle ammo, which will lead to appreciation of existing personal inventories.  When people who are making avg/median incomes start looking at that $10,000 worth of ammo in the garage, that is now worth $7,000, and realize that they could be spending it on dinners out, stocks, hookers, blow, etc, they're going to start selling it.  Even a serious survivalist realizes that they don't need more than a couple of thousand rifle rounds.  They're also at the point now where they ask themselves if they really want to pull a trigger to send $0.50 down the range.  The opportunity cost is simply too high.  Why not light a cigar with a dollar bill?   And when that realization happens, look out.  People who buy speculative investments (e.g. an AR lower that they expect to appreciate if there's an AWB) and watch the price start to come down start ditching it.  AOL stock (1998-99), real estate (2004-2006), crude oil (summer 2008) are recent examples.

Pmags and lowers were in very short supply after the election, and look where they are now- everywhere.  



If only more people had your logic my man. I remember just CHECKING around for pmags and they were selling for 35 bucks each AND THEY SOLD for that. Now, I have heard Gander Mtn. has loads of them in. Some people are just dumb, reminds me of the y2k things. People bought stuff, nothing happened.

Originally Posted By Jenk2k:
i lived through Hugo in Charleston and let me tell you it was several weeks of no power, and a week of no municipal water. It wasn't Katrina conditions, but it was alot worse than I thought it would be and we were not prepared. There was flooding in places i had no idea could flood and tree and roof damage everywhere. The national guard was posted up at the local Food Lion, which was cleaned the F out of course. It is no joke and anyone on here should consider has a hurricane plan that includes at a minimum cash, batteries, flashlights, foodstuffs, gas grill and LP gas, a good knife, and the obvious EBR and sidearm.



I know what you mean.  People can't shoot their 100,000 rounds of ammunition if they don't have any food or water to keep them going.
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 4:09:58 PM EST
GOOD GOD IN HEAVEN, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

It's obviously the end of the world.  President Obama (which was elected by a majority vote, I remind you) has his own opinions on the proliferation of firearms in this country.  But he has his own opinion on a lot of things.  Doesn't necesarilly mean he's going to pass a law to enforce his opinions on everybody else.  I know he's made claims in the past about possible gun control but he's also got a right to change his mind about something and has been known to do just that......kinda like everyone posting on this site.  I know I've changed my mind about things before.  Let's also remember the guy went to Harvard and taught Constitutional Law.  But I'm done ranting about how irrational it seems that we're going to wake up in the very near future and find that either guns and/or ammo is banned or taxed.  There have been solutions discussed but there are a lot of people involved in the process of passing bills that have differing opinions on the subject.  Not to mention the NRA and other organizations that are too powerful.  There are a helluval lotta gun owners in this country that are Democrats and voted for Obama that also happen to have guns.  I'm one of them.  When you've got the majority of the country backing you there's not a whole lot one person can do to get a law passed.

Even better is all the posters here and elsewhere that are convinced the country's going to spin into civil war any day now.  We've already done that.  That's why the civil war is covered in school more a lot more than Vietnam or even WW II was.  This country did that 150+ years ago and we are STILL reminded of the lessons we learned in doing so.  And the Yugoslavians thought they were cool.  Nope, we did it bigger and better than they ever did.  Theirs was a minor border skirmish compared to what we did.

I'm anxious to see all the people that have recently stockpiled thousands upon thousands of rounds.  One poster made a good point.  Nobody actually shooting any of it.  It makes you think every time you tap your finger in your AR and $0.75 comes out the end of your barrel.  Screw that.  I've got four mags loaded for mine and, other than that, I'm out.  I have about 1,500 rounds of 5.45x39 (and most of that is sealed in a Spam can) that is used on the off chance of SHTF.  I live in Florida and hurricanes are known to come through here.  I know all too well what it's like to be out of power for a few days.  So the SHTF is an actual possibility for me.  I've got batteries, a radio, I stock up on canned food and water in the summer months, and I have enough ammo to make it as long as I need to.  Let me emphasize I don't stock up on 6 months worth of canned food and water.  Just enough to get me through several days.  That's all that I'll be losing power and water.  The probability of that is so remote I don't bother.  Kinda like the possibility of us going into a civil war is so remote, I don't bother buying 20,000 rounds.  The chances are so remote it's just no worth it.  Another example is being hit by a meteor.  I don't prepare for that either because it's too remote.

I'm looking forward to seeing all these doomsdayers lose their asses at some undetermined point in the future that are stocking it up now.  The ones doing this (that is, the ones that actually have money) were the same people buying several houses to either flip them or invest in them.  Then lost their asses in real estate.  Same people that dumped their F-250's to buy a compact Toyota pick-up.  I work as a credit analyst for GMAC and you wouldn't believe all the people dumping their full-size trucks and SUV's a year ago for something better on gas.  I'm not kidding you, Chevy Cobalts were flying off the lots before the tires even cooled down.  You want to blame somebody or offer consipiracy theories for outlandish ammo prices, the conspirators are the ones buying this stuff up.  It means anybody buying stockpiles lately is comlicit and you all get what you deserve.  Sooner or later, the bubble will burst in this market.  It amazes me that people were saying the same thing about oil last year and real-estate the year before yet they can't make the connection here.  Short-term amnesia.  People said a year ago gas would be close to $10.00 a gallon by now.  I paid $2.07 at the pump the other day.  Down from $4.50 at about this time last year.  People cut back on their gas consumption and, whadya know, oil prices fell and OPEC associates practically shit themselves.  

I've got enough to get me by and shooting is one of my favorite hobbies.  I'm gonna do what that other guy said: I'm gonna start biking or hitting nature walks or something.  I'm not paying these hyper-inflated bullshit prices.  I'm going to wait until the prices get realistic again and then I'll resume.  The oil on my hardware won't even be dried by the time that happens.  I think what the distributors is doing is horrible but this is the same system we fought and died for to ensure its continuance.  Funny how people praise America when it works for them and then get bent when they're on the receiving end.  You can't blame the distributors for raping you when you're opening you legs and inviting them.  You've got noone to blame but yourselves.
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 5:51:05 PM EST
Originally Posted By FrankSL:
Here's my take on the ammo situation.


I've been thinking a lot about ammo prices and I believe there will be a correction in the market.  When I got to the Chantilly gun show at 3pm on Friday, guys were making a beeline for the ammo dealers, including some with personal handtrucks.  Have I seen a similar increase in the number of guys shooting .223 at the range?  No.  That tells me that what is going on right now is hoarding with the anticipation that Obama is going to ban the import of rifle ammo, which will lead to appreciation of existing personal inventories.  When people who are making avg/median incomes start looking at that $10,000 worth of ammo in the garage, that is now worth $7,000, and realize that they could be spending it on dinners out, stocks, hookers, blow, etc, they're going to start selling it.  Even a serious survivalist realizes that they don't need more than a couple of thousand rifle rounds.  They're also at the point now where they ask themselves if they really want to pull a trigger to send $0.50 down the range.  The opportunity cost is simply too high.  Why not light a cigar with a dollar bill?   And when that realization happens, look out.  People who buy speculative investments (e.g. an AR lower that they expect to appreciate if there's an AWB) and watch the price start to come down start ditching it.  AOL stock (1998-99), real estate (2004-2006), crude oil (summer 2008) are recent examples.

Pmags and lowers were in very short supply after the election, and look where they are now- everywhere.  



I could not agree more. Give it time these prices will fall. To be honest, all of these people that are paying these current prices do not have the right to complain about the high prices. If we stop buying, the price will come down. We are our own worst enemy.
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 5:55:52 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/29/2009 5:56:07 PM EST by docmcb]
Inflation is coming (devalued dollar), an imported ammo restriction is coming (goodbye Wolf, Prvi, and surplus), ...





and people think lower ammo prices are in the future????

 
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 6:57:13 PM EST
Originally Posted By docmcb:
Inflation is coming (devalued dollar), an imported ammo restriction is coming (goodbye Wolf, Prvi, and surplus), ...

and people think know lower ammo prices are in the future????  


We've seen an almost 100% increase in ammo prices in the past year.  Inflation has averaged about 11% thus far.  Inflation has played no part in the current ammo crisis.  It is solely due to panic buying.  When the panic buying subsides, and it has to at some point, prices WILL fall.
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 7:07:16 PM EST
Originally Posted By molar:
Originally Posted By docmcb:
Inflation is coming (devalued dollar), an imported ammo restriction is coming (goodbye Wolf, Prvi, and surplus), ...

and people think know lower ammo prices are in the future????  


We've seen an almost 100% increase in ammo prices in the past year.  Inflation has averaged about 11% thus far.  Inflation has played no part in the current ammo crisis.  It is solely due to panic buying.  When the panic buying subsides, and it has to at some point, prices WILL fall.


I agree, unless Obama  bans imported ammo. However, the Dems. would face huge loses in the House and Senate in 2 years if this happened.
Ammo prices can only rise so much. SG had M855 at $1000 for a thousand rounds, a buck each. If prices rise much more say $1.50-2.00 per round, how many people can afford to shoot at these prices? Not many IMHO. If prices rise above $1.00 per round, you will see the market flooded with AR's
because people could no longer afford to feed them.
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 7:51:36 PM EST
Don't know if this has already been posted.  If so, pls delete (with my apologies).

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123984046627223159.html

Good overview.

Sam
Link Posted: 4/29/2009 11:51:08 PM EST
Originally Posted By FlaDevmeister:
GOOD GOD IN HEAVEN, THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!

It's obviously the end of the world.  President Obama (which was elected by a majority vote, I remind you) has his own opinions on the proliferation of firearms in this country.  But he has his own opinion on a lot of things.  Doesn't necesarilly mean he's going to pass a law to enforce his opinions on everybody else.  I know he's made claims in the past about possible gun control but he's also got a right to change his mind about something and has been known to do just that......kinda like everyone posting on this site.  I know I've changed my mind about things before.  Let's also remember the guy went to Harvard and taught Constitutional Law.  But I'm done ranting about how irrational it seems that we're going to wake up in the very near future and find that either guns and/or ammo is banned or taxed.  There have been solutions discussed but there are a lot of people involved in the process of passing bills that have differing opinions on the subject.  Not to mention the NRA and other organizations that are too powerful.  There are a helluval lotta gun owners in this country that are Democrats and voted for Obama that also happen to have guns.  I'm one of them.  When you've got the majority of the country backing you there's not a whole lot one person can do to get a law passed.

Even better is all the posters here and elsewhere that are convinced the country's going to spin into civil war any day now.  We've already done that.  That's why the civil war is covered in school more a lot more than Vietnam or even WW II was.  This country did that 150+ years ago and we are STILL reminded of the lessons we learned in doing so.  And the Yugoslavians thought they were cool.  Nope, we did it bigger and better than they ever did.  Theirs was a minor border skirmish compared to what we did.

I'm anxious to see all the people that have recently stockpiled thousands upon thousands of rounds.  One poster made a good point.  Nobody actually shooting any of it.  It makes you think every time you tap your finger in your AR and $0.75 comes out the end of your barrel.  Screw that.  I've got four mags loaded for mine and, other than that, I'm out.  I have about 1,500 rounds of 5.45x39 (and most of that is sealed in a Spam can) that is used on the off chance of SHTF.  I live in Florida and hurricanes are known to come through here.  I know all too well what it's like to be out of power for a few days.  So the SHTF is an actual possibility for me.  I've got batteries, a radio, I stock up on canned food and water in the summer months, and I have enough ammo to make it as long as I need to.  Let me emphasize I don't stock up on 6 months worth of canned food and water.  Just enough to get me through several days.  That's all that I'll be losing power and water.  The probability of that is so remote I don't bother.  Kinda like the possibility of us going into a civil war is so remote, I don't bother buying 20,000 rounds.  The chances are so remote it's just no worth it.  Another example is being hit by a meteor.  I don't prepare for that either because it's too remote.

I'm looking forward to seeing all these doomsdayers lose their asses at some undetermined point in the future that are stocking it up now.  The ones doing this (that is, the ones that actually have money) were the same people buying several houses to either flip them or invest in them.  Then lost their asses in real estate.  Same people that dumped their F-250's to buy a compact Toyota pick-up.  I work as a credit analyst for GMAC and you wouldn't believe all the people dumping their full-size trucks and SUV's a year ago for something better on gas.  I'm not kidding you, Chevy Cobalts were flying off the lots before the tires even cooled down.  You want to blame somebody or offer consipiracy theories for outlandish ammo prices, the conspirators are the ones buying this stuff up.  It means anybody buying stockpiles lately is comlicit and you all get what you deserve.  Sooner or later, the bubble will burst in this market.  It amazes me that people were saying the same thing about oil last year and real-estate the year before yet they can't make the connection here.  Short-term amnesia.  People said a year ago gas would be close to $10.00 a gallon by now.  I paid $2.07 at the pump the other day.  Down from $4.50 at about this time last year.  People cut back on their gas consumption and, whadya know, oil prices fell and OPEC associates practically shit themselves.  

I've got enough to get me by and shooting is one of my favorite hobbies.  I'm gonna do what that other guy said: I'm gonna start biking or hitting nature walks or something.  I'm not paying these hyper-inflated bullshit prices.  I'm going to wait until the prices get realistic again and then I'll resume.  The oil on my hardware won't even be dried by the time that happens.  I think what the distributors is doing is horrible but this is the same system we fought and died for to ensure its continuance.  Funny how people praise America when it works for them and then get bent when they're on the receiving end.  You can't blame the distributors for raping you when you're opening you legs and inviting them.  You've got noone to blame but yourselves.



I don't know how YOU judge the character of man.  I judge him by his past actions and not his current words.
Check BO's past record when it comes to firearms.  He is the most anti-gun president this country has ever elected.  And you voted for him.


Link Posted: 4/30/2009 4:10:07 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 4:12:45 PM EST by Nalapombu]
I too am aggravated about the current ammo situation.  What is really disgusting about it is that a great deal of the problem is being caused by people that buy up every single round they can get their hands on and then go to the various sites and SELL it for vastly inflated prices.  They are willing to put the entire shooting community in dire straights for their own greed.  It makes me sick when I see and read comments from these scumbags that post messages laughing at people about them buying every single round of ammo and not leaving any for people that actually want to shoot.  It is going on here at all of the WalMarts in my area.  Last week I counted 7 stores within a 30 mile radius and every one of them were totally OUT of all centerfire and rimfire ammo.  A lot of the sporting goods managers would tell me the same stories about how they are getting in ammo but each time they get any in there will be one guy that buys EVERYTHING they have.  They tell me that they would love to be able to limit the purchases so more people could at least get a chance at buying some of the ammo.
After those conversations I decided to do a bit of research.  I went on Gunbroker and you would not believe the sheer number of auctions for WINCHESTER White box 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP and  Speer 9mm and 45ACP, rimfire BULK packs too.  ALL of it coming from Walmart.  There are DOZENS of auctions of people trying to sell not boxes of ammo, but CASES, sometimes MULTIPLE CASES.  Of course they price it at 3X the price they paid for it, at about $40-$45 a box, depending on what caliber or brand.  It's even going on with the 22 ammo.  I tell you I don't think I have been so pissed off and embarrassed of being part of the same group that these scumbags claim to be a part of.

I am a rinfire shooter.  Me and my buddies have our own range and I normally shoot a bulk pack of Remmy Golden per week.  At this point in the year I would've been through several thousand raounds already.  So far I have had a total of 2 boxes.  That's because of the pukes that are trying to make a buck off of people that are scared and/or wanting ammo to shoot and perpetuating then crisis that we find ourselves in.  Well instead of sitting back and fuming about it I decided to DO SOMETHING.  I made it my mission to try and stop what is going on.

I started with my local WalMart.  I talked to the Assistand manager and Sporting Goods manager and assistant manager about the possibility of LIMITING the purchases so one person can't clean out the shelves and leave nothing for anyone else.  They were in favor of it but said they would have to get the OK from the Store Manager.  I then talked to him and he refused to place ANY limits on ammo purchases.  I then decided to call Wall HQ in Bentonville, AK.  I got some good info and advice and then contacted the regional manager for my area.  After a heated conversation explaining the problem, she said she would support the store manager if he wanted to place a limit on sales.  I also printed out a couple of the auctions with CASES of ammo that were obviously bought at Wally, were being sold.  I wanted the store personnel to SEE what was going on with the people that were buying all the ammo.

I can now say that my local Wally is now limiting people from buying quantity ammo.  Now you can only buy 5 pieces of ammo in a single day.  It's not perfect, but it's a start.  At least that will give other people a CHANCE at getting some ammo instead of constantly finding the shelves empty from the same few scumbags that buy it all to sell on auctions at 3X the price.

If you too call your local Wally and talk to the manager you can make a difference.  Maybe if enough stores start limiting what's going on this artificial ammo crisis will come to an end.  I URGE you to take a stand and do something, make a difference.  If you do, who knows, maybe in a few days we'll be able to walk into our local WalMart and actually BUY a box of ammo and go to the range to enjoy some shooting for a change.

MAKE A STAND!!

BD
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 4:32:17 PM EST
If you wanna make a stand then start by convincing all your liberal friends who voted for Obama that he and their beliefs are what is causing the problems to begin with.  Then and only then will things get back to normal.
Link Posted: 4/30/2009 10:27:13 PM EST
[Last Edit: 4/30/2009 11:27:33 PM EST by SewerCow]
I am making a stand by not paying these ridiculous prices some people just seem to LOVE to pay (how do I know they like paying the prices?  Because people ARE paying these prices).  I NEED 9mm.  I have about 30 rounds.  I am WAITING, lets say it together, WAITING for 9mm to come to walmart (it has happened, it is there, you just have to be patient).  I didn't entirely need .45 ammo but walmart had two boxes for 15 bucks each.  I bought both.  I didn't make a dumb decision to keep an eye on wideners every 30 mins to see if they got in some .45 at .50 cents a round.  Walmart has .223 in every now and then.  I don't understand why dumb people would pay .60 cents a round on GB or on an ammunition site when they could just be patient and wait for THAT SAME ROUND to arrive at walmart for about .42 cents a round.  People are dumb and I am sad to say most of the dumb people that are feeding this price hike are the gun-lovers.

For the record, I voted mccain, I am a republican, I can't stand faggy liberals, Obama is a douche, and we don't have a president right now.  But there has to be a point when people realize this is getting ridiculous.  Stop paying these prices and they will be forced to lower the prices to a reasonable level.

You tell someone they aren't allowed to have something (assault weapons ban, no more imported ammo, etc.) and they will spend all they have to acquire that thing.  What would happen if they decide to no longer sell gasoline?  How many gas cans would you see at walmart, none because people would buy those up.  What would be the price of gas a day later? 4 bucks, 5 bucks?

Not to mention the price gougers on the EE.  I saw .380 selling for .60 cents per round of FMJ.  How in the hell is a round, that takes less raw material to produce, more expensive then a round that takes much more raw material to produce such as the .45?  Quit with the lieing in the description of "I bought this for a friend and he didn't need it" or "I bought all this 4 years ago and since sold my gun".  At least have the balls and dignity to say the truth "I bought this at .30 cents a round and want to turn around and sell it for .70 cents a round".

end of rant.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 6:34:26 AM EST
To echo SewerCow, why has .223 been historically more expensive than 9mm?  The 9mm bullet is twice as heavy.  The amount of brass used for the case is more or less equal (but the .223 has to be necked).  I bought 9mm 115gr bulk ammo for +/- $170/1000 last year.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 7:23:55 AM EST
I don't have ANY liberal friends so there's nobody to convince.

Trust me, I do everything I can to try and get the best people elected.  Because the parties are just about the same these days, I have become a single issue voter and that issue is gun rights.  I donate to gun rights groups, gun rights politicians running for office, make phone calls, write letters, do anything I can to make a difference.

Sure there are people that are panic buying and hoarding, no doubt about it.  But I am convinced after all that I have seen and heard that the majority of the problems we are seeing right now are because of these "people" that I talked about in my previous post that are buying everything they can get just so they can turn around and sell what they have to others at vastly inflated prices.  What else could you deduce when you see all kinds of stories about how people are buying not 10 or 20 AR magazines, but HUNDREDS of them at a time?  I am the biggest gun rights believer, but I don't think anyone could convince me that a person was actually buying 300 AR magazines because THEY needed them for their own use.  Sure I support their right to own them, but the REASON they are buying them is so they can come back later and gouge people if a new law comes along.  These people that are doing this kind of stuff, and there are LOTS of them, are quietly sitting back and HOPING for something like that to come along so they can maximize their "investment."  The Wall Street Journal even wrote an article about people buying guns and stuff for "investment" purposes.  I have seen posts where people are laughing and bragging about how they made $10,000 in 3 months after the first AWB was signed into law by selling magazines he bought.

The "people" that are flipping their ammo buys are the very ones that are CAUSING the problem.  They are perpetuating this crisis because everyone that goes to buy ammo sees empty shelves because one or 2 people are buying it all to sell so the people that originally wanted the ammo to go and shoot now think that there is some sort of ammo crisis and they start buying and hoarding.  It's a vicious cycle that I put right at the feet of these lowlifes I describe.

BD
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 7:09:15 PM EST
[Last Edit: 5/1/2009 7:11:47 PM EST by Submariner]
Originally Posted By docmcb:
Inflation is coming (devalued dollar), an imported ammo restriction is coming (goodbye Wolf, Prvi, and surplus), ...

and people think lower ammo prices are in the future????  


Doc, you are making wa-a-ay too much sense.  Clinton blocked importation of CHICOM ammo with an executive order. Bush I blocked the importation of "assault weapons" with an executive order.  Buck Ofama can do the same with ALL imported ammo if he chooses.

Then watch prices.

Buy it cheap (hahahaha) and stack it deep.

Link Posted: 5/1/2009 7:10:31 PM EST
My Wal-Mart has instituted the 6 box rule too. Shows a corporate looking memo.
Link Posted: 5/1/2009 9:02:20 PM EST
Originally Posted By Submariner:
Originally Posted By docmcb:
Inflation is coming (devalued dollar), an imported ammo restriction is coming (goodbye Wolf, Prvi, and surplus), ...

and people think lower ammo prices are in the future????  


Doc, you are making wa-a-ay too much sense.  Clinton blocked importation of CHICOM ammo with an executive order. Bush I blocked the importation of "assault weapons" with an executive order.  Buck Ofama can do the same with ALL imported ammo if he chooses.

Then watch prices.

Buy it cheap (hahahaha) and stack it deep.



Alright, I agree inflation is absolutely coming. So, when people cannot afford food, gas etc., how can they afford $2.00 per round?????  

SG is already charging $1.00 per round for M855. How many people buying this ammo at $1.00 per round are actually shooting it?
Well not many!!!

Ammo prices can only rise so much.     PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   BIG BUBBLE. Unless the Dems. pass a Arsenal law, you can only own  1K of
any ammo. Well, we are all F*&^%$#@!!.  If you invest 10K in ammo, you are a felon.
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 12:30:58 AM EST
I have been reading for a few months of all the ammo shortages, but havent had the need to buy alot as I bought alot last year thinking this might happen.  Today I went to 3 Walmarts, 2 Academy Sports. and Gander Mountain.  Gander Mountain was the only store that had 9mm.  The thing is they were selling STEEL cased blazer brass ammo for $20 per 50 round box.

I walked out in disgust
Link Posted: 5/2/2009 7:00:49 AM EST
Originally Posted By jmj999:
Originally Posted By Submariner:
Originally Posted By docmcb:
Inflation is coming (devalued dollar), an imported ammo restriction is coming (goodbye Wolf, Prvi, and surplus), ...

and people think lower ammo prices are in the future????  


Doc, you are making wa-a-ay too much sense.  Clinton blocked importation of CHICOM ammo with an executive order. Bush I blocked the importation of "assault weapons" with an executive order.  Buck Ofama can do the same with ALL imported ammo if he chooses.

Then watch prices.

Buy it cheap (hahahaha) and stack it deep.





Alright, I agree inflation is absolutely coming. So, when people cannot afford food, gas etc., how can they afford $2.00 per round?????  

SG is already charging $1.00 per round for M855. How many people buying this ammo at $1.00 per round are actually shooting it?
Well not many!!!

Ammo prices can only rise so much.     PERIOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   BIG BUBBLE. Unless the Dems. pass a Arsenal law, you can only own  1K of
any ammo. Well, we are all F*&^%$#@!!.  If you invest 10K in ammo, you are a felon.




SG offers .223 ammo for 259.00 per 1k... Centurion... when they get it... XM193 LC 1k for around $429.00... Wolf for $279.00 per 1k when available. They have some real deal, high dollar... current US issue ammo like used in Afghanistan and Iraq... they paid a premium price and ask a premium price. To post that this overpriced M855 is indicative of SG's ammo pricing or ammo prices in general is unfair.

FS


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