AR Sponsor
Posted: 5/1/2004 11:41:15 AM EDT
|
Is it me or is it the nature of the site? I went out and zeroed the YHM FS, and the used Aimpoint today, I also took the TA31F out as well. Both the YHM and the Aimpoint shot as you would expect, no surprises there. In fact a couple times I shot sub-moa with the rifle rest being the main helper on that. At any rate, when I put the TA31F on the gun I would be on target and when I would shoot a group it was terrible! I seemed to not be able to keep the reticle from moving in the focal plane. It seemed to shift left or right. My groups opened up considerably. I did notice that when I have both eyes open the reticle settles down. This disturbs me, I'm able to shoot a scoped gun to sub MOA, but I just can't seem to get this reticle to keep from moving. I got a friggin $1k scope and I can out shoot it with a used $170 red-dot! Do you think this is the nature of shooting up close (50yds)? I'm not going to keep it if I can't shoot it worth a crap due to my eyes.  Makes no sense when I can sell it and get an Aimpoint and mount with change left over. And shoot it better.Y'all give me some input on this please. |
|
I can use the ACOG just fine with one eye, in a "conventional scope" manner. In fact, I was doing so last weekend, and I was able to hit a 300 yard 12" gong every time. What it sounds like to me is that you're having eye relief issues. Make sure you are getting close enough that the whole optic is filled with picture. If the picture is floating around, you're probably too far away, and you won't be accurate. -Troy |
|
I was in and out trying to do that. I shoot a |
|
TNR: I had EXACTLY the issues you did. Irons: 1.5" Aimpoint: 1.5" This using ancient SA M193 out of a light weight 20" chrome-lined barrel. Pretty much OK IMHO, considering the components. Proceed to mount NIB TA11 on Arms #19. Nice 1.0" group. Take swig of soda. Repeat. Again, nice 1.0" group BUT, re-located by 2.0" @ 1:30. Scratch head, mutter. Double-check cheek weld, arm position, etc. Try again. 1.0" group in same location as immediately prior group. OK, now we're getting somewhere. Group is 1.5" right and 2.0" high of center. Adjust 1.5 min left. Group moves straight up 2.5". WTF? Scratch head, mutter. Try again. 200 rounds later; the damned thing still won't hit (at least more than once) where I want it to. Some groups 1.0"; some 2.5". Just to confirm; pull ACOG off and remount Aimpoint. Bingo. All rounds within 1.5", exactly where they were before I pulled the Aimpoint off. Scratch head, mutter. Conclude TA11 is FUBAR. Why the hell do I need this much-dinero gizmo to turn in inferior performance to what I can get with irons or a chump-change Aimpoint? Return to Trijicon with explanation. Two weeks later scope returns from Trijicon with exhaustive list of tests performed. Scope is performing perfectly. Scratch head, mutter, bang head on wall.  Finally locate fix: Ditch ARMS #19 and replace with LaRue adjustable QD. Life is good.  I do shoot off the bench one-eyed. I am RH/RE dominant but, if I stare to long with both eyes open, maginfied or not, things tend to go wobbly.  I suspect that there is a lot of individual variance with this one/both eyes stuff. Wish Bart Roberts would chime in here with some wisdom re; human optics.
|
|
SD, what do you reckon is the difference between the 19s and the larue It was a #19, not a 19S. The difference is that the LaRue can be adjusted to actually fit YOUR rail, not just the theoretically perfect rail. As it turns out, there can be significant movement of the mount on the rail under recoil (even puny 5.56 recoil) that you will never detect by hand-wiggling the components. No doubt, the "everything-but-ARMS-is-dogshit" crowd will be chiming in here with the suggestion that one just keep buying uppers until you find one that correctly fits the ARMS mount. I don't see it that way. I have purchased a number of LaRue products recently and, although style-wise they fly in the face of current fashion, have found them all to be very good shit. Good luck, SD |
|
TN_Ronin, it sounds to me like your brain and eyesight are having trouble with the ACOG reticle. A couple of things to keep in mind when using the ACOG are: 1) Focus on the target, not the reticle. If you try to focus on the actual reticle in the same way you look at the front sight during aiming, the reticle can shift and even fuzz out entirely for a broad range of people with normal eyesight. Focus on the target and the reticle will usually come into sharp focus. Its tough to diagnose over the Internet; but this would be my best guess to your problem. 2) Use both eyes open unless you are cross-dominant. Since you say the reticle settles down like this, I'm guessing you aren't. Both eyes open works well whether you are shooting long distance or using the BAC feature; but it may take some getting used to if you are used to more conventional sights. 3) Check that the ACOG is secure in the mount and the mount is secure on the rail. One error is for the mount to be secure to the rail; but the screw securing the ACOG to the mount has backed out under vibration from shooting. It is rare to see that; but I usually secure the ACOG to the mount with blue loctite on the screws just to be safe. I see it much more common in the carry handle mounts where no loctite is used. |
|
"I know it is both eyes on the BED. But for the 4X should they both be open?" Not neccessarily, I sometimes shoot scopes with both eyes open (your other eye shouldn't be really "seeing anything anyway" your brain should switch to the highest resolution image (the scope eye). Those guys were right too, you need to be way close on the ACOGs. your eye should be so close when you fire it will feel like the eyebell is in danger of touching your forehead, and if you are shooting from a bench it sometimes will. That will prevent the losing the focal plane problem (if you get a telestock this can be accomplished by simply retracting the stock.) The reticle might not work well for you (I don't know if you have a donut or what you have, the standard crosshair of the NSN is a pretty universal reticle.) You should deffinitely outshoot you aimpoint sighted M4 when you add an ACOG. Some people have issues with magnified optics, IE: fighting the reticle trying to get the rifle still sometimes makes your groups open up (usually this is only seen with extremely high powered scopes like 32power, where you see a lot of movement that actully is about an 1/8of an inch at 100yds and your brain overcorrects for it, then you move more, and you overcorrect again, etc.) That should not happen with the 4x ACOG though. There is also another problem, if you are used to centering the 4MOA dot on the bullseye your groups with the finer reticle could open as you merely fire when the reticle is inside the bullseye, you should keep the finer crosshairs centered on the center of the bullseye. (Imagine a smaller aiming point and your groups will shrink) IE, shoot at a 1/8inch "sweetspot in the center of the 3inch bullseye, not just whenever your reticle is within the bull. An easier solution is simply getting smaller bullseyes on your targets but then you haven't learned anything either. |
AR Sponsor