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6.5 Grendel FAQ (Page 4 of 10)
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Going to ask a stupid question that may have been answered: If you're buying/building an AR-type rifle, rather than the 6.5G, why would you not go with a .308-based gun in .260 Remington? -Numerous factory loads available -Readily available reloading components -Can use .308/7.62x51 brass But, most importantly... -Can shoot 140s at 2800fps or so, far ourstripping the performance of the 6.5 As a 1000yd shooter, I'm a big fan of .264" bullets -- I just don't know why I'd want a 6.5G over a .260 |
| For the same reasons people still buy and shoot .223 ARs over the AR10 - they are heavier and more expensive. I don't shoot 1000 yards. But if I did, an AR in 260 would be a better tool than a 6.5G. |
"The utmost excellence at which humanity can arrive, is a constant and determinate pursuit of virtue..."
"Shooting unsuppressed is just uncivilized." 1UP5DN
"Shooting unsuppressed is just uncivilized." 1UP5DN
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u cannot get a 260 cartridge to work on an ar15 lower. 260 worx with ar10 type platforms 6.5G worx with ar15 platforms pick the lower u have/want, then pick the cartridge. It would be fewlish to use a 6.5G setup on a ar-10 platform (even though it would be possible) as the 260 would kik its a$$. If we could get a 260 to work in an ar15 setup, 6.5G would not exhist. |
Possibly, but don't forget about the advantage of lesser recoil, and, for military consideration, the more compact ammunition. John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
Think outside the box. Everyone always assumes that big heavy bullets with high BC's are the ticket in getting to 1000. If you shoot at a marked yardage and shoot a few sighters first then yes they do fight the wind better. If you shoot at UNKNOWN ranges you want the flattest trajectory to help cover up the mistakes in estimating. Find the velocities of the 100,108, 123,139 Lapua Scenars in any cartridge and run them through a ballistics program with all of them zeroed at 500 then see which one drops more at 1000. It will not be the one most people think it would be. www.AR15PERFORMANCE.com The Grendel can perform much better with the right bullet. Edited for clarification- I'm not disagreeing with m14 and I'm not saying the grendel can ever outperform the 260 if the same bullets are used, just that the grendel can peform much better than most think it can with 100-108gr bullets. |
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Alexander Arms offers 24" barreled upper receivers, but you're probably looking for just the barrel/bolt combo. In that case, I'd check with Satern Custom Machining. John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
And that far away, wind is what matters. The bigger 264s dont just fight the wind better, the fight the wind a LOT better. Remember that at 1000 yds, a net 1 MPH wind change can move your point of impact almost 10" -- and no one can detect a net 1 MPH wind change over 1000yds.
Well, lets see: My load for 1000yds in the 260: .264" Berger 140VLD at 2800FPS. 1000yd drop from 500 yd zero: 194" 10MPH drift at 1000 yds: 6.24 MOA Just for reference, I also shoot 6.5-06. 140VLD @ 3050fps 1000yd drop from 500 yd zero: 159" 10MPH drift at 1000 yds: 5.45 MOA 6.5G .264" Secnars @ velocities found on this site: 108 @ 2800 (22" bbl) 1000yd drop from 500 yd zero: 241" 10MPH drift at 1000 yds: 9.07 MOA 123 @ 2650 fps (24" bbl) 1000yd drop from 500 yd zero: 235" 10MPH drift at 1000 yds: 7.67 MOA 139 @ 2305 fps (bbl unk) 1000yd drop from 500 yd zero: 307" 10MPH drift at 1000 yds: 8.57 MOA If you swap in the 140 VLDs for an apples/apples, comparison: 140 @ 2305 fps (bbl unk) 1000yd drop from 500 yd zero: 301" 10MPH drift at 1000 yds: 8.27 MOA So, it seems that while the 6.5G w/ lighter bullets can appeoach the MV of the .260, they give up WAY too much SD and BC in doing so -- and the 500fps or so you lose with the 139/140s means a LOT more drop and drift.. Conclusion: past 500yds, the 6.5G can't touch the .260. But, I think that was a given. Sure, the AR15 platform is lighter, but then, if you're shooting at things 1000yds away, a heavy gun isnt a detriment (my M700 in 6.5-06 weighs 19lbs, empty)
Better than 223, yes -- but even then: .223" Berger VLD 80gr @ 2800fps (24" bbl) 1000yd drop from 500 yd zero: 236" 10MPH drift at 1000 yds: 8.79 MOA |
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Just to clarify. I am not comparing the Grendel to the 260 I'm talking about comparing all of the bullets shot out of the Grendel to each other. Take all of the bullets available in the 6.5 Grendel at the respective velocities and compare those to each other. Most think the 139 is the bullet to use. IMO it's not. Take all of the bullets in the 260 at obtainable velocities and compare those trajectories to each other. The 139 didn't win this time either did it? I meant the grendel can perform better than most think if lighter bullets are used. I know it will never touch the 260 if the best bullets are used in each case just like the 260 will never compete with the 6.5 Reaper. Powder talks. I don't like using VLDs, especially from a cold bore. For the comparison I used bullets that most can buy and load well, the Scenars may be a stretch for some. EDIT--Some people use bullets that everyone talks or post about, Like the 175 smk in the 308. It's not the best for the 308 but if you compare it to the grendel with 100 or 108 scenar the Grendel will out perform it, everthing else being equal. |
That's a longer than mag length load that is taking advantage of the deep throat in a 5.56 or Wylde chamber. Throat the Gremlin deep & seat it long & it'll show some more spunk, untill the bolt breaks. M9 |
Well, that much is true -- after all, you dont have a lot of case capacity to work with, and the bigger bullets suck that up pretty quick.
6.5 WSM. Something to look into - like maybe a custom barrel for your big-block AR. IMHO, 6.5mm bullets are the best bet for long-eange shooting, given the trade off between bullet weight/SD/BC, muzzle velocity, and powder useage. What it comes down to is that you CAN find bullets with a better BC than the 6.5/140s, but to beat the ballistics of a 140VLD at 3000fps (out of an -06 case), you need to drive them so fast that you wind up having to use a big magnum case with about a pound of 7828 or somesuch.
Yes, VLDs take some extra care, and are a bit more expensive -- but if you're serious about putting holes in the x-ring at 1000yds, you need the best components you can get, assembled with as much care as you can muster. |
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I have pushed the 6.5 about as hard as makes sense in the AR, and I am happy with it. However, I have a chance to buy a damaged CZ527 (stock cracked and muzzle crown damaged in a tragic "oops") which is luring me to the possibility of building an ultralight bolt gun in this caliber. Couple of questions to viewers/posters: -- anyone here do this yet, or know of one? -- any 50-55kpsi load data out there for the 6.5? (All the AR-based stuff seems a bit cooler.) -- comments/warnings about a CZ/6.5G combo (other than segregating warm loads from the AR)? |
I believe Jim Brockman of www.brockmansrifles.com did at least one CZ-based Grendel, but expensive! You can check my Website, see sig line below, for possibly more.
I don't know of "hotter" loads published online for bolt-actions. I'm pretty sure that most of what needs doin' from a light bolt-action rifle in 6.5 Grendel can be done with "standard" loads, but more power to ya, if you feel like experimenting.
My comment is that you're on the right track. Given that CZ has the 7.62x39 bolt-face, the conversion is a no-brainer. Also, I'd recommend one of the early leaders in 6.5 Grendel custom barrels, Satern Custom Machining. They can make any profile you like, and I would think their cut-rifled method would lend itself especially well to a light-weight barrel. Steve Satern shot the 6.5 Grendel at Camp Perry this year, so he has some serious, practical experience with the cartridge. (You don't need this barrel any time soon, do you?   )John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
Yes. Check Ramshot and Accurate Powders newest online reload data. Pressures listed run 51-52K. |
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Nope. You need dedicated 6.5 Grendel magazines (from CProducts) because the case is fatter and, conversely, the 65G magazines have shallower ribs on the sides. John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
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Okay, I've read through the thread and have yet to really hear the reason. All I ever see or hear about is the 6.8 SPC. 6.8 6.8 6.8 6.8 6.8 6.8. All I ever hear. The next big thing. The evolution of the .223 for the military. I never hear about the 6.5 Grendel. Why is that when the 6.5 Grendel beats the 6.8, ballistically, at all rangers and not just past 400 yards?? They have virtually the same magazine capacity. Is there just more money being pumped into the PR campaign for the 6.8? |
To its credit, the 6.8 SPC was the first "intermediate" cartridge for the AR-series that came out of the gate. As such, it was hyped by the gun magazines as the next new U.S. Military cartridge. Everybody loves something that seems new and cool. It was a heady time. Many AR enthusiasts, understandably so, became fans of the cartridge because, indeed, it more closely approaches what a combat cartridge should be. I, myself, would probably be a fan if the 6.5 Grendel didn't exist. Well, more likely, I'd be a "6.8 Grendel" fan, because my fundamental argument is that a military intermediate-capacity case needs bullets with BCs on the high side. Many leading 6.8 proponents, who actually consider an even newer 7x46 cartridge the ideal, tacitly admit this fundamental concept. Anyway, this site was, and still is, one of the main headquarters of early adopters of the 6.8 SPC who represent a loyal core of followers of Gary Roberts, whose terminal ballistics work with ballistics gelatin greatly served to solidify support for the cartridge. Early adopters are very loyal, no new thing will shake them from their faith in what they've staked their reputations and hard-earned money on.
The main argument from 6.8 proponents is that it has superior terminal ballistics to the 6.5 Grendel, as supposedly shown by Gary Roberts' gelatin testing. I say "supposedly" because I haven't seen these tests. Nor, strangely enough, has Bill Alexander, creator of the 6.5 Grendel, been shown them. Dr. Roberts only shows the results to individuals who meet his qualifications. But you're right about the external ballistics. Note my charts below:    
Massively. Matching Alexander Arms against the 6.8 SPC cabal of Remington, Barrett, Hornady, Stag Arms, and others makes David and Goliath seem like even odds. It's amazing the 6.5 Grendel has made it this far, and even thrived. It has done this, despite the misinformation campaign waged against it by die-hard 6.8 proponents, because of its superior technical merits. One could blame the uneven market penetration on the fact that the 6.5 Grendel remains a proprietary cartridge of Alexander Arms, but, as far as I know, they have been generous with their licensing terms to qualified concerns. In my opinion, many companies are hedging their bets in the direction of which of the two cartridges will most likely enjoy some form of military adoption. If that's their game, I predict they'll have a rude awakening, because there's no way the military will choose 6.8 SPC over 6.5 Grendel. The 6.5 Grendel can do everything the 6.8 SPC can do, but the 6.8 SPC can't do everything the 6.5 Grendel can do. (Again, refer to charts above.) The 6.5 Grendel can even do some of the things 7.62 NATO M80 and M118 can do. Not bad for a compact cartridge with half the recoil in a handy weapon! John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
Uhm, sorry to bust your bubble John, but being the best rarely has anything to do with winning government contracts. It's all politics. Who owes whom a favor, which lobbyist has payed for what vote, who's kid is charge of testing, ect. ect. ect. Been there, seen it first hand. 
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Guns? Guns? I don't have any guns. Now Uncle Fester down the road, he has some guns, and occasionally he lets me shoot them.
Oh come on Jon, show me this 'massive' 6.8 PR campaign. Remmington? Those M-Fs tried their best to screw up the cartridge, Other than one flyer at a shot show a couple of years back I've not seen ANYTHING from them. Barrett? Again a flyer (IIRC from the same Shot Show) and the occasional magazine advertisement - no different from Alexander Arms. Same with Hornady or Stag or Bushmaster or DPMS or Olympic Arms or Model 1 or SSA or Kotonics. I never see any PR other than advertisements of their wares - and several of the companies I mentioned have very almost non existant ad campaigns. IMHO there are several reasons why you see more 6.8 mentioned but it's primarliy because there are FAR more 6.8 manufacturers (and they are the larger AR companies). The reasons for more AR companies choosing the 6.8? Again I think there are several reaons: 1) No licensing fees. 2) SAMMI recognized 3) Ammo (especially of domestic manufacture) has been available for it. For a while people were having problems getting 6.5 - tough for a Mfg to test uppers before shipping if they don't have a reliable source of ammo. Manufactured Ammo costs on the 6.8 side has fluctuated from being less expensive than 6.5 to being more (or equally) expensive - but once SSA came online there was always a reliable source which help establish a 'foothold'. Add in the fact that brass cost for the 6.8 has always been lower by 40% or more (I think this is important because many of adaptors of the new calibers are reloaders). In the end it surely isn't marketing/PR - it's was more availablity of product (firstus with the mostus) and it gave the 6.8 a significant boost in the market - the recent increase are just companies trying to play 'catch up' when they saw which way the market went. |
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"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh
"All Arfcommers should wear thier multicam smoking jackets or jammies around the house in anticipation of JBT tasering/dog shooting/civil rights violation or the occasional impromptu gangbanger street theater." - m24sh
yeah, I see the reasoning there and have heard it before, but I've also seen firsthand that the government doesn't consider cost benefits as much as it should sometimes. If the military adopted it I'm sure they would start making their own rounds and give it a name like "M???" like the rest of their ammo. Number of available bullet choices for the caliber that are on the market would not really matter, I don't think. I guess it could go either way. I've seen the government spend way more than it should on something and I've seen the government opt for a product that was not the best choice for both political and economic reasons. I wouldn't be surprised if the 6.8 was picked soley because it looked more like the 5.56 and not the stubby, little 6.5. Who knows. All I know is that all the data I've read states that the 6.5 Grendal has a greater velocity and greater energy than the 6.8 SPC at ANY range, even when they use a heavier bullet in the 6.5! The 6.5 has a better B.C., too. I know the 6.8 is an outstanding cartridge, but it just doesn't stand up to the 6.5. Again, I'm no expert by any means, but all the data out there that I've read points to it. I'm planning a build for this next year. If I'm wrong, please correct. I'm just basing this off of data online that I've read. Now I need to start researching what to build for a heavy-weight, sub-sonic suppressed AR cartridge. Kind of tossed up between 338 Specter or the 338 Whisper. but that's a topic for another day. |
Speaking as one with 41 years in the defense industry designing and producing military aircraft, satellites, intelligence assets, and software, your statement above couldn't be farther from the truth. |
Yeah I call BS on that too, just take a closer deeper look at all the companies getting rich from the war, who is profiting, and to what level. |
 Hilary may be coming around again. But I can't recall maybe that was her...ahem husband, I just don't remember. |
Support companies that support the 6.8SPC
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| So the 6.5 won't run through the 5.56 mags ? If the answer is no, is C-Products the only game in town for the 6.5 mags ? Or is this just more hipe like me being told my 50 Beowulf had to have "special mags" to work properly ? Funny, I now have over 260 rounds through those Magpul equipped 5.56 AR mags without a single issue in the Beowulf. Seriously though, do I need to buy 6.5 specific mags for it like my 6.8 ? |
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Yes, you need "special" 6.5 Grendel magazines and, yes, CProducts is the only game in town. A double-stack of Grendel cases is too wide for a standard 5.56 magazine, and thus you'll notice the grooves in the side are shallower. You should be able to use your 6.8 mags for the Grendel; give it a try. John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
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Just thought I'd post the latest on my 6.5 Grendel suppressed SPR build. This started out as a stock 24" AA Overwatch. Adco cut the barrel down to 19" and profiled for the Surefire QD suppressor adapter/muzzle brake. Bill Alexander touched up the crown and reassembled the upper, bedding the gas block and barrel extension with Locktite 2440, as per their current assembly SOP. The can will be a Surefire MB68AR, just as soon as the Form 4 comes back. The trigger is a Timney 3# single stage, and the scope is a USO SN-3 3.2-17x44 with the PCMOA reticle and 1/4MOA EREK elevation knob. I have a set of Seekins low rings coming to replace the USO 35mm rings in the pic. The USOs work OK, but I prefer a cheekweld a bit tighter to the rifle's bore. Bill Alexander has shot this rifle and says it'll do MOA or better, but I'll have to see how it shoots with the can attached. According to the Grendel reloading chart, this rifle should be good out past 800 yards shooting 123gr VLDs. I'm using the earlier curved C-Products 17 round 6.5 mags, and I've had to adjust the feed lips on all of them since my upper has no extended feed ramps. 
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Very nice! I'd hate to be on the insurgent end of that weapon! John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
AA sells SS barrels with M4 Ramps and I believe you can get them from Satern too |
"If you know how much an item cost wholesale, than your just a well informed consumer!" techbrute
www.65grendel.com
www.65grendel.com
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Because of the bigger bullet diameters, if M4-style feedramps are not yet standard for all 6.5 Grendel factory builds, they soon will be. So I would guess that most factory uppers and parts are including M4 ramps, but I suppose you could phone your vendor to verify. John P.S. Good shootin', FN_FAL!  | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
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6mmBanshee and 5.56x42 two of the flattest
shooting calibers for the AR15
does everyone ignore your post? are you a jackass?
www.AR15Performance.com
www.68forums.com
www.SSArmory.com
www.ammoguide.com
shooting calibers for the AR15
does everyone ignore your post? are you a jackass?
www.AR15Performance.com
www.68forums.com
www.SSArmory.com
www.ammoguide.com
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Hey Constructor, relax on the Satern trashing. They are very decent hardworking people and have been busy as hell. We met with them at length at Shot Show and they have been super busy moving to a new shop (an old church actually!) and will be designing and building new equipment and such. Deb was pretty sick with something a couple months ago and was actually calling and emailing from bed after she spent some time in the office every day. It is pretty much Steve out in the shop, although they have a part time guy I think too. It's not like you can hire just anyone to work in that shop! Anyways, not trying to start something here, but they have NOT been on vacation or catering to the competition shooters and leaving us by the wayside. They have just been busy growing the business, and as you may or may not know, it can be painful sometimes! |
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I tried to contact them for 2 months last summer by fax, email and phone. I finally talked to one of the guys in the shop and he told me they were at Perry, the next time they were on vacation. I just had someone contact me yesterday about building a barrel for him and he had been waiting 11 months. If you're going to run a business run it like a business. John Holliger answers the phone every single time and if he tells you 8 weeks, it will be 8 weeks. I'm running a hotel and casino project , you think I'm here every day? There is not a single phone call or email that is unanswered by me at the end of the day and you can bet your ass with over 300 men on this project I have alot more communication than they do. |
6mmBanshee and 5.56x42DMR
two of the flattest
shooting calibers for the AR15
Grendel Destroyers
www.AR15Performance.com
www.68forums.com
www.SSArmory.com
www.ammoguide.com
two of the flattest
shooting calibers for the AR15
Grendel Destroyers
www.AR15Performance.com
www.68forums.com
www.SSArmory.com
www.ammoguide.com
You can get a 6.5 barrel from many different places and have a Grendel barrel built from it. As to your questions: #1) Slim to none and slim just left the building. #2) Get a barrel blank from Dan and have a Grendel barrel built from it. If you think that these are the reasons why you cannot go to your Mart-mart and buy it, you are mistaken. If all you want is a barrel/bolt to BIY try AA or Sabre (or a Sabre Dealer). Both have AR Grendel barrels available. |
Thanks for pointing out two places where I can get a manufactured 6.5 barrel: AA and Sabre. I will pass on both for three primary reasons: (a) feedback in this thread, (b) I don't want to be pigeon holed into ordering a 6.5g from the source of the 6.5g, and (c) I want a 6.5g from a source I already know and trust. If this is the extent of readily manufactured options, I find it a bit perplexing and troubling that AA represents 50% of the manufactured 6.5g barrel option in the market. Also, thanks for the info on the possibility of basically manufacturing a Lilja 6.5g. Unfortunately, that is not what I'm looking for. This cuts directly to my original inquiry. Granted, my original inquiry should have included bolts as well: so who makes and offers 6.5g barrels and bolts ready to be inserted into an AR15 upper (such as a LaRue, Vltor, CMT, etc...)? In order for me (and I imagine similarly situated others) to contemplate acquiring a 6.5g barrel (and bolt), I want/need it to be PRE-manufactured and ready to go with length (and if possible, contour) options, with a choice between competing manufacturers. I don't have the time to track down people all over the country to make a barrel. Accordingly, I am willing to pay for this service and the product from someone that I trust, someone that offers other AR barrels and bolts that are proven to perform. I believe others are as well. So why is it that I don't have an option of selecting a 6.5g upper from LaRue, Noveske and/or others? Licensing fees? If so, it seems ridiculous that a license agreement could not be negotiated based on the numbers of units sold to give incentive to produce and make a so chambered product readily available. I (and I'm sure others) would like to know. So, since you claim that I am "mistaken", please share your detailed and reasoned insight for the glaring lack of availability from the AR15.com "industry partners" that the 6.5g finds itself. (scroll up if you don't know who they are) After all, isn't it just a barrel and bolt; how hard is it to sign up the most reputable barrel makers to run a few hundred of these to see how the market absorbs them? We're not talking about engineering a new scope mount, BUIS or optic here. I have to assume that this is not problem with a lack of expertise in the industry. Moreover, if this cartridge is so great (as it appears on paper) sales of these barrels/bolts should take off. If I recall correctly, the 6.5g has been out for at least as long as the 6.8SPC (if not longer). I am personally more interested in the 6.5g as I personally believe it is a better all around round (at least on paper). But manufactured options for building a 6.5g is few and far between. The wolf and black hills production is encouraging, but this merely begs the question of why this "superior" AR15 platform cartridge is not represented/offered by some of the best and certainly the preponderance of manufacturers and builders of AR15 products. What is the real (aka objective) reason for the either the excessively delayed or failure of this cartridge to filter through the market? Granted, I only care because I am trapped in the AR15 magwell. But then, so are most of us (for now). Finally, I (and, again, I'm sure others) don't appreciate your "Mart-mart" reference. I don't consider MSTN, LaRue, Noveske, GTS, J&T, Stag, RRA, and others to be "Mart-mart". These are reputable businesses with people who have earned valuable levels of good-will and respect through hard work and countless business days of service to people like me--people that would consider purchasing a 6.5g upper. |
SS, two of the seven vendors listed above have definite plans to introduce 6.5 Grendel models. It would be out of place for me to steal their thunder and pre-announce them, so I won't say who they are. So I apologize, but they will announce when ready! John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
You can click and buy the Grendel barrels from both the AA and the Sabre websites. Bill might not always have barrels in stock, but then that is often the case with small businesses (emphasis on small). If you want more info, call either AA or Sabre and ask about a time frame for barrel/bolt shipment. If you do not want to order a Grendel barrel and bolt combo from the company that brought it to the marketplace or one that is a quality manufacturer because of what people have said on ARFcom, that is your choice, but it is a self limiting one. There are more then a few people on ARFcom that do not like Bill A's business approach/attitude. I admit that he can be abrasive/cranky at times, but if this is why you do not do business with someone, you will find that there will be very few people to do business with. I work with people whose business demeanor and attitude make Bill A. seem like a laid back, no worries, type-B person. You are incorrect if you think that the licensing fees only are the driving limit on 6.5 Grendel upper availability. There is more to it,but not for an open forum. If you wish, we can take the discussion offline, and I will answer any questions you might have to the best of my ability. If not, you are free to believe what you wish. There is no failure to bring the 6.5 Grendel to the marketplace. Neither is there a failure to bring the 6.8 SPC to the marketplace. There are multiple more 6.8 SPC's in the marketplace then 6.5 Grendels, but both combined are nothing more then pimples on the ass of the .223/5.56 market. As for my "Mart-mart" statement. I meant it in the context that your reply was written. Now, I will be the first to admit that the written word often loses context and nuance, doubly so on an internet forum, and based on your later post, I can better understand what you were attempting to say in your earlier post. Your earlier post cam across as "wanting to know" why you can't "have it your way", like BK or going to a Mart-mart. ARFcom is a niche. both 6.X rounds are niches on niches. Lastly, I would suggest going to the two rounds respective web forums, as they have a wealth of information and are run by some good guys who are both knowledgeable and passionate. 6.5 Grendel. 6.5 Forums. |
Good news John!! Thanks for the update!! Has anyone taken a Chronograph to the new 120gr MPT ammo yet? |
Yes, take this link to my Website for one guy's report. John | 6.5 Grendel: The State-of-the-Art Combat Cartridge. | |
Of course, serves me right for not logging on since last night. Thanks for the info, John. |
6.5 Grendel FAQ (Page 4 of 10)
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