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Posted: 10/26/2019 10:20:52 PM EDT
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Approximately nine months ago I purchased a 500rd case of Hornady Frontier M193. I've been a long time user of Hornady's centerfire rifle products and have always been very pleased. For ten years my various AR-15's have been loaded with 75gr TAP for social work as well as hunting and I've also used a combination of the 55gr V-Max and 55gr GMX loads for hunting various game. For range ammunition I've traditionally used Magtech and MEN. When I was running low on my stash of MEN and didn't have time to order anymore before going shooting for the weekend with a buddy, I picked up some of the Hornady Frontier M193. It was very reasonably priced, and I was really excited to give it a try given my previous experience with Hornady. By far, bar none, the best 5.556mm bulk ammunition I've ever used was the MEN M193; it consistently delivered 1.5-2.0 MOA accuracy out of my SR-15's. Magtech's M193 wasn't far behind either. When I bought my Hornady, given my experience with their products, I was actually expecting It to be of similar quality. Nothing could be any farther from the truth. I'm going to preface the rest of the story with this, and I'm going to try and paint as vivid a picture as possible here The single rifle that fired this sampling of Hornady Frontier M193 was a factory complete, 16" KAC SR-15 Mod 2 purchased new, by me. Said rifle had fired to date, approximately 3,000 rounds of Magtech and MEN M193 as well as some 75gr TAP, 55gr V-Max and 55gr GMX. The rifle, to date, had never experienced a malfunction. For the majority of the rifles life it had a Surefire muzzle brake/adapter installed (per Surefire directions, by me) and had probably close to 1,000 rounds of suppressed fire through it with my SOCOM 556 SBII. During this time period at no point was there ever an issue with the alignment of the silencer. Continued below... |
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Furthermore, I’m a career firefighter who works part time at an a major FFL. I have an extensive history with surefire products, both selling them and with personal use. I’m also very mechanically savvy and possess a triple digit (barely) IQ… so while some things, say applied astrophysics, can really throw me for a whirl, much more simple things, like mounting a suppressor that I’ve mounted several hundred times, are very straight forward for me. Especially when Surefire makes it as idiot proof as they do. Why do I mention all of this? You’ll see later… Range session 1: I had recently just acquired a Vortex Razor Gen II and before heading out for the weekend I went to the local range to zero it, using the Hornady M193. I loaded up two 30 round mags and began the process. During the first magazine I experienced multiple popped primers and malfunctions (failures to extract and failures to feed). I noticed the dimples on the primers of the fired casings was fairly shallow. Why I didn’t stop there is beyond me. I got a rough zero and switched over to 75gr TAP to finish as this is what I typically keep my rifle zeroed for. Also, accuracy with the Hornady M193 was about 4MOA at best. Continued below... |
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Range Session 2 Fast forward a few days to my weekend range trip with my buddy. I had been considering purchasing a 300 SPS for a .30 cal can and my buddy wanted to see what his 300 SPS sounded like on a 556 rifle; he only had an adapter on his 300BLK so we mounted his 300 SPS up to my SR-15. Win-win as we both were curious what it would sound like and what the blow back would be like on a 5.56. Initially I was shooting the remainder of my stash of MEN; I expend about two mags without issue. After running out of MEN got into my stash of Hornady. Over the next magazine I experienced a few more popped primers, one of which lodged it self above the BCG locking up the gun hard enough that it was unable to be cleared in the field. At this point we took the 300 SPS off and noticed immediately that it had experienced several end cap strikes, it also looked as though someone had taken a sand blaster to the inside of the Surefire muzzle brake, which had previously looked almost new except for finish wear. Clearly it appeared that not only was this ammunition over pressured but that the bullets were either leaving the muzzle destabilized, or more likely, jackets rupturing. Continued below... |
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Upon returning home I contacted Hornady to discuss what happened and what they were going to do to make it right. I explained over the phone to the tech everything that I have explained here. Clearly this was an issue with their ammunition, anybody with half a brain can see that. The Hornady rep immediately informed me that he had not only never heard of there being an issue with the Frontier line of ammunition but that bullet jackets rupturing was extremely rare and that the more likely cause of these problems was an issue with my rifle. He blamed KAC for not producing a rifle with concentric threads, he blamed me for not knowing how to mount an adapter and blamed me again for not knowing how to mount a suppressor. He didn’t seem interested that the can was a .30 cal can installed on a 5.56 rifle that had previously had a 5.56mm can mounted on it for roughly one thousand rounds with the only variable changing being that I began using THEIR ammunition. Continued below... |
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The disappointment doesn't stop there either After contacting them via phone and e mailing them as instructed for an RMA, several weeks goes by and I never receive one. I'm in a busy part of my life; going to school, getting married and taking a promotion at work so I really don't have time to chase Hornady, and despite my displeasure with them, I have other more immediately pressing things on my mind. A few more weeks goes by and I e mail them again. They inform me that I can be expecting an email later that day with an RMA number and a prepaid Fed-Ex label with instructions on how to ship the ammunition. A day goes by, nothing, two days, nothing I get busy and weeks go by. I email them again and finally receive the RMA and shipping label. This was a few days ago, the ammunition is now currently on its way to them for "testing." Results to come but in the mean time here are some pictures of the damaged brake and Surefire 300 SPS. All boxes were from Lot # SMQ18C867-007    |
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This stuff has been causing blow ups and issues since they made it and they [Hornady] has lied thru their teeth since day one about it as far as it being defective. They will do nothing and admit to nothing due to any liability on their part for producing defective ammunition. They are off my list to buy for ANY caliber due to their failure to admit there is a problem with some of their ammunition. |
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I like Hornady bullets but they're real idiots to keep producing this Frontier crap ammo!
Here's my old thread on it. https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/For-your-safety-and-mine-Disassembled-400-rounds-Hornady-Frontier-5-56-results-inside-/5-2235264/ To be honest I never really found anything "wrong" with it. Some people suggested the brass walls might be too thin. Hornady pull the old "gun firing out of battery", which I've heard isn't possible on an AR system. Obviously it's the ammo though. Assholes for still selling that dangerous ammo, IMO. |
I had an issue with Frontier as well. The thread is somewhere in here. I sent back 480rnds out of a 500rnd case. They pretty much told me there was nothing wrong with it yet they replaced it with a different lot. Only took about 2 months! I buried it at the bottom of my SHTF stash which pretty much means I will never shoot it. Fuck Hornady! I will never buy another Hornady product again. Not because they put out a defective product, but because they are fucking assholes.
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Quoted:
I had an issue with Frontier as well. The thread is somewhere in here. I sent back 480rnds out of a 500rnd case. They pretty much told me there was nothing wrong with it yet they replaced it with a different lot. Only took about 2 months! I buried it at the bottom of my SHTF stash which pretty much means I will never shoot it. Fuck Hornady! I will never buy another Hornady product again. Not because they put out a defective product, but because they are fucking assholes. |
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Quoted:
Their elitist "Not for peasants" attitude with their LE ammo soured me to them. Why should civilians not be as well armed as LE? Getting this topic at the top of search results, and leaving no-holds-barred reviews of it (citing the other consolidated thread) at places that sell it online like someone did at SG may eventually garner some attention - coin flip. |
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They are setting themselves up for a huge class action. Someone is going to get killed using that ammo. When that happens and it comes out that Hornady has known all along that there are serious problems with their QC, they are going to be on the hook for a lot of damages. Companies like Hornady are arrogant. They believe they are too big to be sued. Some enterprising law firm is going to put it all together and file suit. The negative ink alone is going to be devastating. Until then, Horandy will tell us to eat cake. And pound sand. |
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Quoted:
They are setting themselves up for a huge class action. Someone is going to get killed using that ammo. When that happens and it comes out that Hornady has known all along that there are serious problems with their QC, they are going to be on the hook for a lot of damages. Companies like Hornady are arrogant. They believe they are too big to be sued. Some enterprising law firm is going to put it all together and file suit. The negative ink alone is going to be devastating. Until then, Horandy will tell us to eat cake. And pound sand. |
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Quoted: What I'm looking for in a response is for them to replace all 500 rounds of my original case of ammunition with another product line (black, American gunner, etc... pretty much anything except Frontier) and to offer to pay for damages up to and including full replacement of my friends Surefire 300 SPS. If I don't get the response I'm looking for I'm going to email them a link to the compiled thread, which demonstrates that they do know there are issues. Also... Two guns experienced kabooms on the range of the FFL that I work part time at, unfortunately I'm not aware if the customers ever pursued Hornady. Unfortunately the two kabooms also occurred during a temporary lapse in my employment there or I would have never purchased the stuff to begin with. |
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This consistent issue is depressing. Hornady should be stepping up to the plate... not balking.
Prior to this issue, Hornady was one of my most admired Firearm related manufacturers. Hornady should be recalling this specific ( at the very least ) Lot mentioned by ItalianStallion and and addressed repeatedly in this forum. Even if it is ultimately a LC issue... Hornady is the manufacturer responsible for the sold ammo. |
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Quoted:
This consistent issue is depressing. Hornady should be stepping up to the plate... not balking. Prior to this issue, Hornady was one of my most admired Firearm related manufacturers. Hornady should be recalling this specific ( at the very least ) Lot mentioned by ItalianStallion and and addressed repeatedly in this forum. Even if it is ultimately a LC issue... Hornady is the manufacturer responsible for the sold ammo. They don't want to eat the cost of replacing the lots and if they issue a recall; they are admitting liability. If they do that, then they are responsible for damages. Easier and cheaper to make up bullshit excuses and blame the firearms. CLEARLY the kabooms are ammunition related. All that being said, IMO, many other manufacturers would and have done the same thing. |
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