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Posted: 1/22/2008 2:19:26 PM EDT
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This has been my experience to which I will later add: Pictures of groups fired and chrono comparisons (next tuesday). Prvi: Functioned flawlessly from HBAR6601 and CAR A3 HBAR Elite. Ejected in the same pile as the Q3131 and shot to same POA at 100 yards. Q3131: Same as above Both felt the same in noise and recoil as far as I could tell. Both rounds were loaded with 27.0gr of a fine, grey, non-uniform sized ball type powder. The PMC .223 round I took down had 25.0gr of the same looking stuff The Prvi was sealed with a uniform tar-band around the projectile. It looked as though it would be an effective sealant. Pictures to follow. The Q3131 Did not look sealed. It had a shiny band around it where the Prvi had the tar. The Prvi today did NOT reliablyt make it through the steel plate at 100 yards. It was a 50/50 proposition out of the HBAR6601. At 150 yards it failed. Q3131 was previously tested under identical circumstances and succeeded every time. It may have been 10* colder today though. I did not try it today. When fired into a milk jug full of water with a witness panel of cardboard 14" behind it, the Q3131 FULLY yawed and passed through in perfect side profile. The Prvi was not fully yawed but the hole was about twice as wide as it was tall, showing that it was beginning to yaw. I belive the Q3131 passed through maybe .5-1" more water due to the cut-out for the handle in the jug (hard to be uniform with a milk-jug and open-sights at 100 yards). I cannot verify this. When fired into a 1.5" thick damp pine board back-stop the Prvi yawed at the same depth (number of boards) as Q3131. It did, however, penetrate about .5-1 board farther. The Q3131 nose separated from the base as did that of the Prvi. The Q3131 separation was more pronounced, but is meaningless as wood is of different consistancy and the angles were minutely different due to how it was stacked. I will post pictures of the pulled projectiles as well as the 10 shot grouping from Q3131 and the 11 shot grouping from PP. The 11 shots is due to the first shot knocking the target down and me running and setting it up and then mis-counting shots taken. Next week I will add chronograph results. A guy I know is charging me $20 to set up and take down the machine so I can do my testing. +1 to him because I don't own one nor do I feel a need to buy one right now when that money could go to ammo  Pics to follow in an hour. |
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0706-03 was the PP lot number. My other case is 0706-04. Should I test it was well, or can I assume they will perform identically? ETA: Notice the tar (did not show up so well, but it's there and in a pretty constant ring around the bullet. Also, the PP has a more defined boat-tail. This may improve BC. I am unsure. At 100 yards they hit the same POA as Q3131.    |
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Been shooting WOLF/PP M193 since it FIRST came out I have no problems with this ammo FOUND TO BE VERY CLEAN compared to most all M193 also Very Very accurate compared to XM193 and Q3131/Q3131A I use to compare ALL M855/SS109 and M193 Includeing pulling apart ETC! Got the same wieght in my Q3131 from 1999 27grs of Ball type powder even the Win M855 had the same 27grs S&B ZV SS109 had LIKE 25grs but still hotter than LC M855,IMI M855 I cant Find any M193 that is as accurate as SANTA BARBRA SS109 or the S&B ZV SS109 Tested in 4 AR`S A1 20hbar Bushmaster 1/9 twist A1 14.7 hbar Bushmaster 1/9 twist Factory LMT Defender 2000 M4 14.5 1/7 twist HOME MADE Bushmaster Lower w/ a LMT 14.5 M4 upper 1/7 twist |
I use 5 gallon bucket of water at 50 yards! 80 % of the time I see little shaveings in the bucket! Its easy since my range is my yard before moveing to SWFL that is I bet it will Frag  |
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Well, using the Prvi at 100y with an HBAR6601 and my now defunct laundry tub... Hit it dead center length-ways (about 18" of water). Small entry hole, MASSIVE cracking and big hole on the exit side. Lead fragments (a dozen or so)(I would guess 10-20 grains worth) were found throughout the tub and ranged in size from large sand to a 1/2 grain of rice. No copper was found and the exit hole, while not lining up with the entry was singular. Q3131 was not tested. Dragging 18 gallons of water almost 100y for testing isn't fun and we all know that IT frags. So...I was kinda hurt not to see 2 exit holes, what do you guys thing, M193 fragmentation signature or not? PS. Re-tested Q3131 and PPU at 150y on steel plate. They both failed about the same. I think the colder weather may have slowed them a bit? Chronograph will tell the truth Tuesday next week. |
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100y HBAR6601 PPU '07 Foam ice-chest Laundry tub (18gal plastic) Result: Movie coming soon The slug DID NOT FRAGMENT. It did flatten (although it did not bannana). Entrace hole was small and punctuate, foam ice-chest was annhialated, slug stopped in laundry tub. Entrance was golf-ball sized indicating the slug was tumbling when it hit. Should water frag M193 at 100y from a 20" or does it take Gel/tissue to break one up? I am a bit worried this is not M193 spec. |
The 2005 lots or whatever earlier lots of it FALARAK tested had the same jacket thickness as US M193 and fragmented in water at 25 yards. Section one of the 2007 bullets for your next test and see if PP has changed the jacket thickness?? I would expect it to fragment some from a 20" barrel at 100 yards. It sounded like from what you are saying the bullet may have keyholed though, which is a problem with the gun barrel and not the ammo. Does your rifle fragment with XM193 at 100 yards into water??? |
Rifle shot 3" open-sight groups today. Barrel is fine. It is 1/7 Colt. It only keyholed after it hit the first ice-chest full of water. I tested Q3131 in a milk-jug and it left the jug sideways as the witness panel behind the jug showed. I do not know if it yawed in the air behind the jug, or in the jug, byt I will go out on a limb and say it did not frageither. Anyone else test inwater at 100y? |
I will, just waiting for chronograph data as I can feel free to addendum the hell out of my own thread but don't wish to do so with the "official" ammo review thread 
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