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Posted: 4/12/2006 12:49:07 PM EDT
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The previous post has been archived. Below are the result from the archived thread: 532 responses 492 without any problems 19 with minor problems 21 with major problems IF YOU HAVE ALREADY VOTED IN THE PRVIOUS POLL, PLEASE DON'T VOTE AGAIN. Please add your personal experience with WINCHESTER Q3131A / IMI M193 ammunition to this thread. When you do, please give information about: 1) Firearm used in 2) Approximate number of rounds fired. For more information about this ammunition, check out the Winchester website. From RussB's post out of a 16" barrel: Velocity: 3079fps, StdDev=13fps Winchester Q3131A is made in Israel by IMI for Winchester and is the same as IMI (TZ headstamp) M193. This is NOT for the new Q3131 loading sold by Winchester and made in the USA. Let's limit this to .223/5.56 ammunition, since this is an AR-15 forum. No offense to the guys with AR's in other calibers, but we all know that .223 chamberings are the most sensitive. I am trying to solicit only information about your PERSONAL experience with this ammunition. If you haven't used it, then please don't clutter up the thread. Information about proper functioning (or lack thereof) is obviously the most important, but factors such as the accuracy or other peculiarities you've noticed are informative also. If you have had problems with this ammo which were severe enough to cause you to stop using this ammo, then please describe them. And one more minor request: keep your reviews objective. |
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Happyshooter My 20" fulton and my wife's 16.1 upper. Several thousand rounds fired. No problems other than a few FTF/FTE which were linked to old mags with bad lips or springs. Charging_Handle 1. Used in several firearms including Colt 16" lightweight, Colt 20" HBAR and a Bushmaster 16" HBAR. 2. Approximate number of rounds fired = 2500 When it comes to general purpose ammo, this has been my primary choice for the past couple of years. I have had no functioning problems with this ammo. In fact, the only thing I can ever recall is having to cull a few rounds because of some pretty severe dents. But considering I have used 2500 rounds of the stuff at least, that is an acceptable ratio IMHO and not a problem. Otherwise I really love this ammo. Unfortunately, I have heard that IMI may no longer have the contract to produce M193 spec ammo for Winchester. So the days of Q3131A may soon be over if this is true. 82_Airborne Q3131A is my favorite blasting ammo. I've only fired about 500 rounds on my poor teengae budget but have not had any problems. This is from a Bushmaster 20" bbl A2. BookHound It's the ONLY 55-grain 5.56 ammo I buy and use. mr_wilson This is my stocking ammo of choice as it shoots the tightest groups in all my M4 rifles, (Colt Bushy and RRA). Over 5000 rounds fired. NO "Ammo Related" problems with this ammo at all. Mike GSSP Has worked very well in my 16" chrome lined RRA M4gery. Accuracy has been almost as good as with Fed Gold Medal 69 gr SMK and Hornady 75 gr BTHP Match. Troy I've shot several cases of Q3131A over the years, and though it tests at the lower end of the M193-spec for velocity, it's always been totally reliable in my rifles (all have Bushmaster 5.56-chambered, chrome-lined barrels). Keep in mind that any M193-spec ammo can be expected to have pressure-related problems when fired in .223-chambered rifles. The most common symptoms of this are difficult/failed extraction and popping primers. ar-jedi rifle: Bushmaster M4A3 16" (blunt) "patrolman's carbine" bbl. Q3131A: 1750 rnds through, no problems whatsoever. notes-- -- reliability, accuracy, and power surely good enough for any SHTF situations. -- more muzzle flash than commercial 223. -- shoots fairly clean. -- nice looking cases. -- can't get enough of it. -- would buy Q3131A in mass quantities if i found it at the right price (say $150 /1K to my door). ar-jedi RussB Priced right... Accurate, Consistent, Low flash, Good Brass, What's NOT to like? Q3131A is my favorite M193 ammo. I've only fired just under 1000 rounds. Rosstradamus I've fired about 3,000 rounds through my ArmaLite M15A2 with a 20-inch barrel and experienced no problems at all. Accuracy is good, and the flash is about three inches in diameter out of the ArmaLite brake. I found one cartridge that was dented and had to be discarded. Once when I ran out of Q3131A I tried some Q3131 and had several primers pop out. That was the end of that experiment. I paid a flat $150 for my last case about three weeks ago at a local gun show. It was about 4:00 PM on Sunday, and the dealer probably figured it was easier to sell it than pack it up and cart it off. Or maybe he'd had a slow day and need some quick cash. I don't know and don't really care either. Usually I pay around $170 per case at gun shows. Dawg180 approximately 500 rounds through DPMS M4. Functions flawlessly, though with a naked end barrel you get a 1'-2' fireball even in the daytime. Positive ejection (10 feet to right and 2-3 feet forward off the brass deflector) with a satisfying recoil. gstx61 Have fired approx 1500 rounds through a bushmaster ak a2. No problems. Like the ammo q3131a AR-10 Working my way through the fifth case. No problems using two different Bushmaster carbines. It's the only 5.56 ammo I buy anymore. D348 I have fired one hundred rounds through my franken ar-15 with a 20 inch m-16a1 barrel. average velocity through above barrel, 3162 fps. Not as accurate as ammo loaded with premium bullets. experienced no kind of malfunctions. Gunslinger808 Q3131A is all I buy. I use it in 5 different ARs, a old 11.5 inch Colt Commando, 2 M-4s 1 Bushy 1 Colt (16"), 20 inch Bushy flattop, 20 inch Colt H Bar. Have never had a FTF/FTE, case seperation, or any other problem. Accuracy has always been good, considering were talking factory ammo. From the bench, out of 20" Flat top (scoped), average MOA is about 1.5. Out of 11.5 inch barrel it runs about 2.5 to 3. Commando about 5000 rnds. M-4s about 2000 each. H Bar about 3500. Flat Top about 450. Personal notes: Some batches are, others are not sealed against moisture. Minimal fouling from unburned powder residue. bsbg It is my personal favorite M193 load. I have fired several thousand rounds with no problems attributable to the ammo, out of a variety of guns. Right now I am shooting XM193 because the Q3131A is a bit harder to find and I don't want to dig into my reserve stock of Q3131A. ar15slinger about 500 through a rra m4 entry...about 2000 through bushmaster xm15....among varius other types of ammo...i think 3131a is the best...no trouble at all.. Mr45auto All Q3131A I've shot has been 100%. Nice shiny cases without the dents and crap I've found in lot 19 LC M193. Best 55gr ammo I've shot. Even my contender shoots it whereas it wont fire LC ammo without several strikes on it's harder primers. Love the Q3131A. AR15newbie Have put about 2,000 rounds through my 20" Bushmaster without a single round misbehaving. Very consistent, clean brass, very good accuracy, by far my #1 rated plinking ammo now that SA surplus has vanished. GiggleSmith 1. Half a case+ 2. Colt M16A1. 20 inch barrel. Very nice and tight groups when I shot on Full Auto. Semi Groups, well, ask me again in a few months. If what I did is any indication, I’ll be shooting sub-minute groups when I get a scope for the upper. It also cleaned up very quickly. I spent less time than usual on the Lower. MUCH less time. I was surprised just how fast it cleaned up. I was very impressed by the ammo. So far S&B has been the most accurate ammo I’ve ever shot. I have a Remington BDL that has shot half minute groups with PMC ammo. I’m wondering just how well it will shoot with my rifle that I use for Benchmark accuracy. fight4yourrights 3 different Bushmasters 1 RRA several thousand rounds ZERO PROBLEMS FTN94 I have fired approximately 1500 rounds through a 16" Bushmaster with no problems at all. In fact I bought 3 more cases this weekend for $155 each. Next weekend will be spent at the range. :) Doctor_Chicago 3000 rounds One Failure to feed - it may have been the new magazine I was breaking in. Colt AR-15 SP1 20" barrel When you can buy it for $2.88 per box then shoot it until the next sale. Otherwise shoot XM193 I get for $170.00 per thousand. I really don't like paying $200.00+ per thousand for ammo. Siglite I have shot 400 rnds so far with no failures as of yet. I have used this ammo in an Armalite M15 A4 carbine, and an Armalite M15 A2 20" Accuracy is good in both rifles 1 1/2 to two inches with irons at one hundred yards off of a rest. Clean and consistant. Better than the generic walmart Winchester in the white box. girard Used it since 1999 in local matches in colt and wilson ar's,also in aug for thousand of rounds with out problem.Accuracy also seemed fine enough for what ever i had to do. GoldtopDude Aprox 2000 rds Q3131A Colt MT6601 20' 1/7 1-FTF Very accurate Very consistent Good price Best ammo I've shot at any price! Hope I can get more when that time comes. ps, please don't buy it all up! ha ha TacticalShooter approx 3500 rounds Bushmaster w 14.5" barrel Accurate, clean, nice shiny cases, reasonably priced. Never had a failure to fire. Highly recommended. Austrian I fired in excess of 12,000 rounds of all makes of WCC Q3131a in less than 4 weeks earlier this year in one of two weapons: Bushmaster 16" post ban and m4 select fire 14.5". 4 failures, first 3 in the m4: Failure to extract. (Attributed to dirty weapon. Hadn't done a lick of cleaning in 7500 rounds). Failure to fire. (Attributed to round). Failure to fire. (Broken firing pin). Failure to feed. (Hung up on ramp. Attributed to magazine. Rounds replaced in new mag, fed and fired without flaw). TxLewis Many many rounds in Cav ARms with colt 20" barrel RRA lower with 24" SS upper OLY Arms 16" Franken gun 80% Ar build with freaky upper ZERO ammo related probs both with Q3131A and Fed XM193 phoenix27 The Q3131A has a well-deserved rep as some of the best ammo out there. I would rank it as #1 or #1A on my list for a self-defense load. Good speed and good frag = good effect on the target. So far, no problems, other than a hot flash from the short barrels of my Bushy M4 and 16-inch carbines. My 20-inch Colt pre-ban HBAR doesn't seem to show the same amount of fire from the barrel. Phoenix27 eddie7 Colt MT6731 16" barrel 1/9 twist. Fired 160 rounds without a problem. All rounds feed well and ejected into the same general area. While sighting the carbine at 50yrds with iron sights, all rounds struck in a nice consistent group with little effort. I plan on using this ammo again without reservations. Boxes say Lot # UF61 sgtstinger I've tried several different types of M193-type Ball ammo through my AR. With Q3131A, I've had *ZERO* FTF's. *ZERO* FTE's. *ZERO* Problems. I've found it to be accurate, clean, and affordable. It's available at several locations nearby. Q3131A is my ammo of choice...for now, anyway. bumpkin 3K rounds-No problems. I love it! Pinned-Recessed 1. 20" A2 J&T kit unchromed: approx. 1500 rounds with no failures directly related to ammo. three or four stovepipes and one doublefeed traced to a weak extractor/ejector. 2. 20" Pre-A1 Colt Air Force upper Chrome Chamber, unchromed barrel: 500 rounds, zero malfunctions. Am running Chrome bolt and Chrome M16-spec Carrier, so added weight may add reliability. Q3131A is my favorite ammo. eklikwhoa 16" superlite, 16"m4 and 20" bull barrel. zero problems, very accuarate and for the bass pro price of $144 and some change very hard to beat A96HondaAccordEX 1500 rounds of Q3131A out of a BM 16" and they shoot awesome. Fox3 200 rounds (painfully) shot through a 16" Bushmaster. Lot #VG41. 30% failures to eject. Two blown primers. In the past, this specific weapon has functioned (without these problems) using UMC, AE, Federal XM-193, and Wolf. CavReconScout I bought 1000 rds @ Bass Pro last summer during their sale. The first 600 rounds shot great, no problems. The next 150 did not have any issues, but seemed MUCH dirtier than the previous fired. The next 150 rounds fired had around 40-50 blown primers. I even had one of the primers lodge under the trigger group and it would not allow the weapon to fire. The trigger group had to be disassembled to remove the primer. The upper was a CMMG 14.5 with perm phantom, and it had NEVER had a FTF or FTE except with this lot of Q3131A, with 4500 rounds total fired. Ammuntion had been stored in the original boxes, in a cool dry location. I had been using this Q3131A for duty, but it was retired to practice only. The lot number was VE01. kk7sm Couple of thousand rounds out of M96, M4gery, Colt 6500. They have always worked flawlessly. rnd 500 plus rounds through 16" HBAR Bushmaster & 20" V-Match, no problems. All "99" head stamp and Lot #PF70. bf2 9/6/05 I can't believe I had major problems today with the Winchester Q3131A / 5.56mm at the range. I purchased and have 2 brand new Bushmasters ( XM15-E2S). I finally had some time today to go to the range and fire this 5.56mm Q3131A 55gr FMJ, and it was a nightmare. I had been stocking up on a few 20 round boxes of this stuff, so I wanted to fire it today. I had a 30 round clip and it fired the 1st 20 rds fine, with no problem, then it went downhill fast. Then the rounds were not ejecting and hanging on the bolt assembly. I finally just started firing 1 round at a time, and they were not ejecting. Yes, this is the Winchester IMI OLIN 5.56mm Q3131A white box ammo. So, I went to the dealer and he tore it ( rifle ) apart, and did not notice anything wrong with that Bushy. Yet he swears by Wolf 55 or 62 gr Fmj. He gave me 20 rounds to test fire, and sure as hell, NO problem firing the Wolf 55gr FMJ. Well, now I noticed the lot# to be VB20. I wonder if this is it. I also need to check the 1000 rd sealed case of Q3131A also, and I have about 800 rds of Wolf 62 gr FMJ. I am now wondering what the problem is, since everything should have been good to go, but was not. Update 9/10/05 Took that Bushy to another dealer/gunsmith and let him have a look at it. He spent a few minutes doing some polishing and a little fine tuning, now the Bushmaster fires the Q3131A fine. I did not bother to ask him what the problem was, since I had actually purchased that Bushy from another dealer down the street. The Bushmaster I purchased from this dealer is still mint, with only 1 round down range. ( I figured he would not check the serial number, since I have purchased several weapons from him in the past ). Well, just thought that I would update my post, since I would like to keep things current for the info on my ammo that I would prefer over most. This web site is outf%#*&#^standing. I have learned so much, just from surfing these forums, since I am new to AR-15's. Even when I was in the Army, we were issued 1911a1 .45 cal pistols, which I still prefer any day over those 9mm's, since I used to own a Beretta 92FS. And we were issued the old M3a1 .45 cal submachinegun. Also now my customized paratrooper SKS just rests in its carry bag, since I have 2 new Bushy's. Great site here, with a load of very usefull information here. UPDATE: 12/9/05 Ref: Bushmaster xm15 -e2s 5.56mm / .223 rem > Problems w/ Q3131A not right: Well I had the same problems with one of my Bushmasters not being able to eject the Winchester Q3131A rounds. But it would always fire the Wolf 55 or 62 gr fmj rounds w/ no jam, no short-stroking, it always worked with Wolf ammo. I wonder why? My other Bushmaster, which had 1 round thru it, fires the Q3131A fine, 300 rounds and not 1 problem. So I took the bad Bushmaster back to the dealer, he mailed it off to be fixed. 4 weeks later, still no word. So, since I have done a good deal of business with them, the owner asked me if I wanted to trade that for a brand new Bushmaster XM15-E2S w/ the removable handle ( A-3 ) and the heavier barrel. It is brand new, and looks so sweet. Next week I intend on bringing it to the 100 / 50 yard range and see how it eats the Q3131A. UPDATE: 12/26/05 The new flat-top Bushmaster had no problem with the quick 100 round test fire of the Q3131A ammo. NO problems at all as I zeroed the iron sights on the removable handle. So now both of my Bushmasters eat this ammo fine with no problems. todd4417 Fired one hundred rds. today at the range today with no problems. Rifle used was a 16" cmmg upper on a dpms lower. Will buy more of this stuff for the right price. -Todd ilike9s I have yet to have any ammo related problems with Q3131A, and have use 3k rounds. Wingman26 This ammo has been super, about 1,000 rounds so far, mostly thru a 20" AR15A2 from an M&A kit, and some thru a J&T Dist kit, 24" barrel with 1/8 twist, the 24" AR has given me groups under 1" at 100 yards using this ammo. No problems of any kind with this ammunition. Burkey I have shot this ammo religiously in my Rifles both of which are 14.5 Bushmaste rifles, I have never encountered any problems with over 2k of this ammo. |
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My favorite ammo. I have shot at least 5k of this suff over the past few years with a Colt M4 and a 20inch Colt Sporter. No problems at all execept that its next to impossible to find anymore. I have couple cases left in My stash but I will not shoot anymore of it untill/unless it becomes more availible. |
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If you include all of the TZZ headstamp stuff over the last god knows how many years I have shot lots of this out of various Colt rifles. Its my favorite of all even over the current Lake City stuff. I still have one full case of the brown boxed IMI '99 stuff that will be the last case of ammo I break into if it gets to that point. I have a couple cases of the newer white box 3131A as well. I love IMI. Hell Im still finding TZZ stuff in odd lots and mixed year loose stuff sometimes. |
No you didn't buy Q3131A at Walmart. Look at your box. |
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I bought some Q3131A at Galyans in IND for under 3.00 a box I bought all I could back in 2000/01 all the Q3131A I shot was Very good ammo just like its older brother Q3131 I never had a single problem Ever with WINCHESTERS Q3131 and Q3131A Im keeping the 700 plus rounds until I cane replace it? 
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