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Posted: 2/6/2023 6:31:24 PM EDT
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I recently purchased a DM4A1 RIII and figured I would share my initial insights into the new RIII rail system. Overview The rifle arrived as described on the DD website: ambidextrous controls, F-marked 14.5 barrel, and was very simple to swap the pin and weld for a SF three prong. The rail is stout, but feels good in the hand and provides a smaller diameter tube to c-clamp (if you're into that). BUT There is an issue with the rail. The mlok slots at the end of the rail are unusable. The bracket that holds the M203 hangers protrudes into both for the first half length mlok slots and the front of the second half length mlok slot. This issue is compounded by the lower rail mounting screw, which sits between the second and third mounting slot, preventing bridging those two slots. This means that the only slots you can mount anything to on the rail in the 1, 3, 9, and 11 o'clock positions are the third set of mlok slots. You can use the lower slots, but of the first 21 mlok sections you actually are only able to use the 9 slots at the 5, 6, and 7 o'clock positions. THE SOLUTION ACCORDING TO DANIEL DEFENSE I reached out to their customer service, and the response I got was that the bracket is riveted to the upper rail, and the only way to remove it would be to drill out the rivets and remove the bracket. The CSR assured me that this will not void the warranty. They also have said they have escalated the issue. In Conclusion Knowing now that the front half of this new rail is unusable I would not have bought this rifle until Daniel Defense figured out how to fix this issue. I will update this thread once I have taken the rifle to the range, and also drilled the rivets out. UNUSABLE SLOTS EDIT #1 A few other RIS III owners have reached out and mentioned they can mount mlok accessories in those spots. I will be pursuing this further |
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Not trying to point out the obvious, but this is always a possibility with parts made for a very specific purpose that have little or no application in the civilian realm. Not entirely sure if the RIS III was developed to compete for a contract or if DD just updated the RIS II to meet the general trend in handguards these days, but if you need to mount a 203 and still maintain a FF barrel, that’s probably going to trump losing a few MLOK slots. My opinion? Drill out the rivets and move on with life. It’s not an ideal solution, especially with a brand new item, but unless you own a 203, it’s an easy fix and you aren’t losing anything in the process. |
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Quoted: Not trying to point out the obvious, but this is always a possibility with parts made for a very specific purpose that have little or no application in the civilian realm. Not entirely sure if the RIS III was developed to compete for a contract or if DD just updated the RIS II to meet the general trend in handguards these days, but if you need to mount a 203 and still maintain a FF barrel, that’s probably going to trump losing a few MLOK slots. My opinion? Drill out the rivets and move on with life. It’s not an ideal solution, especially with a brand new item, but unless you own a 203, it’s an easy fix and you aren’t losing anything in the process. Pretty much my thoughts on it as well. This particular rail / rifle rail was designed with a specific purpose that it does well with the sacrifice of some MLOK slots. The average user probably doesn't understand the purpose of the design. I say drill the rivets and move on. |
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Quoted: Not trying to point out the obvious, but this is always a possibility with parts made for a very specific purpose that have little or no application in the civilian realm. Not entirely sure if the RIS III was developed to compete for a contract or if DD just updated the RIS II to meet the general trend in handguards these days, but if you need to mount a 203 and still maintain a FF barrel, that’s probably going to trump losing a few MLOK slots. My opinion? Drill out the rivets and move on with life. It’s not an ideal solution, especially with a brand new item, but unless you own a 203, it’s an easy fix and you aren’t losing anything in the process. A few other ris III owners have reached out and said they CAN mount mlok accessories there, so now I'm working to further see if mine is just out of spec. |
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Quoted: Was going to get this thing but it's great that you caught this. It's not a knock against Daniel Defense, it is a very pretty handguard, I'd just prefer not to drill holes in mine. Note that other RIS 3 owners have reached out and stated they can mount stuff there, so I'm now wondering if mine is a one off out of spec. |
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UPDATE Damage See the link for the interference areas. This is from both a BCM and a Magpul mlok sling mount. Edit: on closer inspection I have noticed the barrel is actually resting on the shooters right hand side of the bracket and hanger. I will advise once @danieldefense gets back to me. |
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The MLOK system is usually thinner, which is a plus for those with girly or small hands. But that decreased size comes with compromises and potential issues. A similar lack of space situation is present with MLOK setups from LMT and others. Since I have Man Sized Hands, I've mostly avoided MLOK handguards whenever possible for this very reason. |
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Quoted: UPDATE Damage See the link for the interference areas. This is from both a BCM and a Magpul mlok sling mount. Edit: on closer inspection I have noticed the barrel is actually resting on the shooters right hand side of the bracket and hanger. I will advise once @danieldefense gets back to me. is there any way to remove the handguard and precisely drill out the M203 tabs on either side so that they don't interfere with the mlok tabs? leave it riveted.. it will just have two slots in the sides that match the Mlok slots.. |
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Quoted: is there any way to remove the handguard and precisely drill out the M203 tabs on either side so that they don't interfere with the mlok tabs? leave it riveted.. it will just have two slots in the sides that match the Mlok slots.. The tabs are removable, but the issue is the bracket itself. |
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Quoted: The MLOK system is usually thinner, which is a plus for those with girly or small hands. But that decreased size comes with compromises and potential issues. A similar lack of space situation is present with MLOK setups from LMT and others. Since I have Man Sized Hands, I've mostly avoided MLOK handguards whenever possible for this very reason. The ones that don’t go for broomstick-thin aren’t usually bad, but yeah. |
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Quoted: UPDATE Damage See the link for the interference areas. This is from both a BCM and a Magpul mlok sling mount. Edit: on closer inspection I have noticed the barrel is actually resting on the shooters right hand side of the bracket and hanger. I will advise once @danieldefense gets back to me. Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: It sucks that the M203 hangers are riveted on. On the RIS II, the hangers are attached with screws and are removable if you don’t plan to attach an M203. The hangers are probably screwed in. This issue is stemming from the bracket that holds the hangers. That piece is riveted into place. |
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Sounds like making the handguard a slightly larger diameter would fix the issue. I’ve notice clearance issues mounting mlok accessories on several “thin” rails. They may be easier to hold but they are lacking on functionality if you have the need to mount many things. For me, I run a Surefire X300 on the top rail (LAV style), back up front sight. I mount a pic rail on the bottom front of the handguard on my 16” rifle in the event I want to use my bipod. I don’t have any NVD/thermal stuff yet, but I’m sure mounting points for switches matter for some in those circumstances. |
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Quoted: Sounds like making the handguard a slightly larger diameter would fix the issue. I’ve notice clearance issues mounting mlok accessories on several “thin” rails. They may be easier to hold but they are lacking on functionality if you have the need to mount many things. For me, I run a Surefire X300 on the top rail (LAV style), back up front sight. I mount a pic rail on the bottom front of the handguard on my 16” rifle in the event I want to use my bipod. I don’t have any NVD/thermal stuff yet, but I’m sure mounting points for switches matter for some in those circumstances. I believe the hanger bracket is relief cut to prevent this exact issue, except mine apparently is not cut deep enough. |
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Thank you. Is this an issue with how I am posting the imgur link? |
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OK. Looking at the one I just got. The problem is the M-LOK screws themselves. If they are protrude further out than the M-LOK nut when it is pre-set for installation, they will hit that bracket. The nut itself fits fins. Screws that are long will also hit a RIS II bottom rail if you are running one of those as well. I would use a file and shorten the screws and then cold blue the ends and oil them. |
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Quoted: OK. Looking at the one I just got. The problem is the M-LOK screws themselves. If they are protrude further out than the M-LOK nut when it is pre-set for installation, they will hit that bracket. The nut itself fits fins. Screws that are long will also hit a RIS II bottom rail if you are running one of those as well. I would use a file and shorten the screws and then cold blue the ends and oil them. Thank you for your assessment sir. |
| Related to this topic, I have a BCM MCMR handguard and a BCM gas block inside it. The gas block prevents mounting anything on the M-LOK slot directly under it unless the screws are shortened by 3-4 millimeters. So this is a common problem with many slim handguards. |
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Quoted: The rivets are definitely protruding too far. I just brought this up with Engineering so we'll figure out what needs to be do to correct this. Thank you for letting us know. Looks like DD is getting after it. https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/New-RIII/382-300958/ |
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I ended up just filing down my rivets so the M203 hangers will work as intended. I'm not saying that anyone else should do this or that it is OK for these to leave DD in this condition. I did scratch the inside of the bracket but it's not visible from the outside so no big deal. I did run into a problem with the 20" GOV profile barrel. The M4A1 RIS II didn't have this problem but because of the bracket, the 12.5" RIS III does. It didn't fit over the .845" diameter part of the barrel. I got it to go on with some force but it did scratch the barrel. If someone wants to mount one of these on a rifle length gas system barrel, they may need to remove the hangers or the hangers along with the bracket. Attached File Attached File DD was right about the M203 capability with a mid length gas system. The barrel latch touches the bottom of the gas block but because it is such a low profile gas block, it doesn't push it in too far. I don't know if this will have a negative impact on accuracy or any effect the heat from the gas block would have on the M203. You probably won't be able to remove the barrel. Attached File Attached File I don't think I will be using the M203 on either of these setups. |
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