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Posted: 6/9/2015 12:37:19 AM EDT
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Just picked up an upper receiver from Andro Corp that is supposed to be a blemished AO Precision upper receiver.
The machining looks good, no issues there. Who has the circle "O" forge casting mark? It's just a circle, nothing else. I've searched and there is no information on this forge mark. Any ideas? |
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I also have an AO Precision upper receiver with the circle forge mark. It's nice and I have no complaints. And Jason from Andro is a good dude.
I also tried to find out what forge house has the circle mark. Apparently PSA has also sold circle forge uppers. Given that no one has seen it before until recently, and the fact that the vendors are so tight-lipped about where these forgings come from, I'm starting to strongly suspect that the circle is a mark of some forge house in China. |
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Quoted:
I also have an AO Precision upper receiver with the circle forge mark. It's nice and I have no complaints. And Jason from Andro is a good dude. I also tried to find out what forge house has the circle mark. Apparently PSA has also sold circle forge uppers. Given that no one has seen it before until recently, and the fact that the vendors are so tight-lipped about where these forgings come from, I'm starting to strongly suspect that the circle is a mark of some forge house in China. The little bit of info I was able to find did reference parts from overseas hitting the market. I really hope it's not Chinese stuff. I'm beginning to wonder if the pricing on these as "blems" is more about marketing....? |
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The little bit of info I was able to find did reference parts from overseas hitting the market. I really hope it's not Chinese stuff. I'm beginning to wonder if the pricing on these as "blems" is more about marketing....? Quoted:
Quoted:
I also have an AO Precision upper receiver with the circle forge mark. It's nice and I have no complaints. And Jason from Andro is a good dude. I also tried to find out what forge house has the circle mark. Apparently PSA has also sold circle forge uppers. Given that no one has seen it before until recently, and the fact that the vendors are so tight-lipped about where these forgings come from, I'm starting to strongly suspect that the circle is a mark of some forge house in China. The little bit of info I was able to find did reference parts from overseas hitting the market. I really hope it's not Chinese stuff. I'm beginning to wonder if the pricing on these as "blems" is more about marketing....? Yep, I think we saw the same thing. If the raw forgings came from China and AOP machined and anodized them in Florida I suppose I am OK with that. I got my stripped AOP upper from Andro and they stated it was a contract overrun, not blems. AOP uppers are readily available; CDNN has complete AOP upper receivers on sale with both teardrop and round forward assists for $69.99. These days the market is so flooded with parts I don't even know what "blems" means so I agree with you there. And I think there are more Chinese-origin parts floating around than we realize. For example, it wouldn't surprise me if these $90 barrels started as 4140/4150 blanks from China, or were completely made there. |
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Interesting. Can a profit be made on a $30 receiver? PSA has had $40 blems pretty often, so it's not too far of a stretch to think there might still be some profit at $30.
Who could tell us the true cost of a finished upper receiver on a large scale? Perhaps we've just been conditioned to pay $100 or more for a receiver for so long that we just can't believe there's that much profit in them........ |
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Quoted:
Interesting. Can a profit be made on a $30 receiver? PSA has had $40 blems pretty often, so it's not too far of a stretch to think there might still be some profit at $30. Who could tell us the true cost of a finished upper receiver on a large scale? Perhaps we've just been conditioned to pay $100 or more for a receiver for so long that we just can't believe there's that much profit in them........ The more I think about it, the more I believe that in order for someone to make a profit selling a finished upper receiver for $35 shipped, the part must have some portion produced in a country with lower manufacturing costs. |
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Guys I will offer you a little piece of mind here. All NEW AO Precision M4 receivers have the circle forge mark. Their blems either have the same circle forge mark, a square (Brass Aluminum forge) Or a square with an F next to it for FN Herstal receivers. AO is the go to company for US SOCOM, FN, Noveske, LMT, SIG Sauer, and about 30 other AR "Maunfacturers" that claim they make their own receivers and BCGs. Some of these companies make some of their own products but from time to time their parts are coming from AO. AO does not use Chinese forgings ( I have been assured of this from the VP of AO) or any materials for that fact that are not as good as it gets. They are a true OEM Manufacturer and do not brand their own products. As far as exactly where their Circle forged receivers are coming from within the US I will find out for you but just so you know even a company like Cerro (keyhole forge) is all over the place and now has 3 different names. Ill update this thread as soon as my contact at AO calls me today.
We are able to sell these blems at this pricing because we do in fact get them very cheap. There is a little markup for us but not much which is why buy them in such high volume. I would rather make $5 each receiver and move as many as they can get me than try and squeeze you guys for a little more money and sit on them longer. We are more of a distributor than a retailer and we focus on volume rather than price per unit. WE APPRECIATE YOU GUYS AND PLEASE EMAIL ME WITH ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE THANKS |
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Quoted:
Guys I will offer you a little piece of mind here. All NEW AO Precision M4 receivers have the circle forge mark. Their blems either have the same circle forge mark, a square (Brass Aluminum forge) Or a square with an F next to it for FN Herstal receivers. AO is the go to company for US SOCOM, FN, Noveske, LMT, SIG Sauer, and about 30 other AR "Maunfacturers" that claim they make their own receivers and BCGs. Some of these companies make some of their own products but from time to time their parts are coming from AO. AO does not use Chinese forgings ( I have been assured of this from the VP of AO) or any materials for that fact that are not as good as it gets. They are a true OEM Manufacturer and do not brand their own products. As far as exactly where their Circle forged receivers are coming from within the US I will find out for you but just so you know even a company like Cerro (keyhole forge) is all over the place and now has 3 different names. Ill update this thread as soon as my contact at AO calls me today. We are able to sell these blems at this pricing because we do in fact get them very cheap. There is a little markup for us but not much which is why buy them in such high volume. I would rather make $5 each receiver and move as many as they can get me than try and squeeze you guys for a little more money and sit on them longer. We are more of a distributor than a retailer and we focus on volume rather than price per unit. WE APPRECIATE YOU GUYS AND PLEASE EMAIL ME WITH ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE THANKS Jason I appreciate the response, I think you providing the origins of the Circle forge mark would put this issue to rest. As I mentioned in my original post, the machining is spot on, no issues there. Your communication and shipping was great as well. I just became concerned as it started to seem that it was "too good to be true". Thanks again for responding and we all look forward to your response. |
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Jason I appreciate the response, I think you providing the origins of the Circle forge mark would put this issue to rest. As I mentioned in my original post, the machining is spot on, no issues there. Your communication and shipping was great as well. I just became concerned as it started to seem that it was "too good to be true". Thanks again for responding and we all look forward to your response. Quoted:
Quoted:
Guys I will offer you a little piece of mind here. All NEW AO Precision M4 receivers have the circle forge mark. Their blems either have the same circle forge mark, a square (Brass Aluminum forge) Or a square with an F next to it for FN Herstal receivers. AO is the go to company for US SOCOM, FN, Noveske, LMT, SIG Sauer, and about 30 other AR "Maunfacturers" that claim they make their own receivers and BCGs. Some of these companies make some of their own products but from time to time their parts are coming from AO. AO does not use Chinese forgings ( I have been assured of this from the VP of AO) or any materials for that fact that are not as good as it gets. They are a true OEM Manufacturer and do not brand their own products. As far as exactly where their Circle forged receivers are coming from within the US I will find out for you but just so you know even a company like Cerro (keyhole forge) is all over the place and now has 3 different names. Ill update this thread as soon as my contact at AO calls me today. We are able to sell these blems at this pricing because we do in fact get them very cheap. There is a little markup for us but not much which is why buy them in such high volume. I would rather make $5 each receiver and move as many as they can get me than try and squeeze you guys for a little more money and sit on them longer. We are more of a distributor than a retailer and we focus on volume rather than price per unit. WE APPRECIATE YOU GUYS AND PLEASE EMAIL ME WITH ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE THANKS Jason I appreciate the response, I think you providing the origins of the Circle forge mark would put this issue to rest. As I mentioned in my original post, the machining is spot on, no issues there. Your communication and shipping was great as well. I just became concerned as it started to seem that it was "too good to be true". Thanks again for responding and we all look forward to your response. The true cost to the manufacturer on a stripped upper is probably somewhere in the $12 range. The blems we sell usually are called blems because of a lighter anodizing color than what they feel should be the norm. A little oil on them and they are perfect. As you noticed I ship these without oiling them so you can see them in their raw form. My partner and I each selected the worst blem we could find out of the last batch and used them in our 2 demo machine gun builds and they have been absolutely perfect. We have sold around 700 of these blems (400 of them circle forge marks and 300 square forge marks) and have had zero returned or issues. Most were sold here on ARF.com.. When I talk to AO tomorrow hopefully they let me know where these came from but to be honest even if they don't want to disclose this info for some reason I'll keep buying every single one they offer me 
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The circle forge mark is PERFORMANCE FORGE.
COPYING AND PASTING MY EXACT CORRESPONDENCE FROM AO RECEIVED THIS MORNING "BTW we are not capable of using ANY FOREIGN parts. 1. As a provider for the military, we cannot afford to make a mistake in selecting a forging. 2. We support American business 3. We will never accept inferior parts that have untraceable origins. We trace our products back to the source, such as ALRO aluminum for our upper material. Hope that answers your questions." |
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The circle forge mark is PERFORMANCE FORGE. COPYING AND PASTING MY EXACT CORRESPONDENCE FROM AO RECEIVED THIS MORNING "BTW we are not capable of using ANY FOREIGN parts. 1. As a provider for the military, we cannot afford to make a mistake in selecting a forging. 2. We support American business 3. We will never accept inferior parts that have untraceable origins. We trace our products back to the source, such as ALRO aluminum for our upper material. Hope that answers your questions." Thank you, Jason! Jason/Andro are one of the good guys in this crowded market. And this is good information to know about AOP. |
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Thanks for the response. I've bought several of your uppers and they've all been top notch parts. I have done some research on Performance Forge this morning and they seem to be a top notch company with 20 years of precision aluminum machining experience and a 20,000 sq foot facility You guys are in good hands with AO |
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From the Performance Forge Inc's website...
"Performance Forged Products was founded in 1996 by Jim Gilliland. After spending 30+ years in the Forging Division of Alcoa, Jim bought the necessary equipment and set up operations in Montebello, California. His objective was to provide the automotive aftermarket with the highest quality forged pistons and connecting rods available. Along the way he not only established a reputation for high quality parts, but he also became known for excellent customer service and exceptional prices. In 2001, Jim pioneered the manufacturing of forged side-relief pistons on a mechanical press, which has helped the company greatly increase its share of the forged piston market. Over the years, Jim worked tirelessly to vertically integrate the company by bringing necessary services in-house, and in 2008, he took the big step of adding in-house heat treat and age capability. Over the years, Jim has expanded the business to include focus on other market segments, including motorcycle components (examples: drive wheels and clutch baskets), and the hot rod dress-up market (examples: steering wheels, drive pulleys and wheel centers). After spending all 45 years of his working career in the forging industry, Jim elected to step back from the day-to-day rigors of running a forge plant. In late 2011, he decided to sell the company to Wayne Ramay. Jim and Wayne worked together at Alcoa, and Jim identified Wayne as the ideal candidate to continue his legacy. Out of this business transaction, Performance Forge, Inc. was formed and plans were created to build on the foundation that Jim created." Pictures of the forging from their website: 
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