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Posted: 8/31/2004 7:29:59 AM EDT
| I've seen some posters mention that the Vortex FH has been known to mushroom open due to it's open ended design. Any details on this? Would this happen during firing? |
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I had one do it. All four tines gradually opened up. I sent it back to Smith Ent. and they replaced it. They stood behind it. They said that they had a bad batch a few years ago. I believe they wernt properly heat treated. The new ones have no issues that I'm aware of. There also have been threads years ago of the same thing happening with pics etc. Get the new style and you will be "Good to go". |
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The tines were undercut due to a change in the manufacturing process. The hardness was fine on all I checked. I'm still looking for a bad one to get pics of. They opened up quick on 6" full autos. markm, The same "feature" that allowed the tines to open up also allowed them to bend shut when struck from the exterior. |
+1 I had a Vortex mushroom out on me and Smith Enterprises replaced it free of charge with the new style. |
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M4, Very cool, can you get a pic from the front showing the internal geometry of the tines? A pic of the tines near the point that they tie into the threaded section (the base) would be most illustrative. That is what was changed on the bad batch, The bad tines do not maintain a triangular cross section for their entire length. Instead, the bad ones gradually transition in shape from a triangle to a parallelogram. The bad tines are thinner at the bottom than on the end. |
Pics as requested. MN  
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Oh, I can almost see the area I'm looking for in that one. Am I imagining a cut away area at the base of the tines along the inside surface? I cropped your pic to show the area I'm talking about.  Dunno why your links don't work, can't get them to load independantly either. |
What was causing the lack of linkage? Can you confirm that the tine there is undercut compared to the rest of the tine? The pic is more than enough since I can now point people to it and say "look there for this" instead of trying in vain multiple times to describe the area.  Thanks again M4. |
I´m not sure, I just deleted some old pics from server and after that problems dissapeared. I´m not expert on computers.
Roger that, the tine is undercut. The pic is more than enough since I can now point people to it and say "look there for this" instead of trying in vain multiple times to describe the area.
You are welcome, Sir MN |
Well, thanks.| I don't have any experience with the vortex, but from what they've advertised and what I've heard here, they eliminate flash 100%. Can't say the same for the 3-prong. I noticed when my friend fired his SP1(w/Xm193) with one on it there was a distiguishable flash about the size of a ping-pong ball just forward of the FS. |
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Last year SMGLee posted some pictures that showed a Browning M2 belt fed that looked like it had a big ass Vortex on it. Is Smith Entreprises experimenting with different platforms? The M2 and 1919 would benefit greatly with the use of a quality flash suppressor. But, when you burn through about 600 rounds in the 1919, how do you hide the glowing red barrel end?  -Steve |
Darn, just my luck. I have one just as you describe. I have to make a phone call. EDIT: I just called, they said to send it to them and they will look and see what they can do. He said the bad batch happened about 10 years ago. Danny |
I swear to god markm is the biggest wise ass I know of on arfcom.
1997 is when we got the bad batch into OAI. So seven years, close enough. I did a test of all the common brands of FSs, A1, A2, 3 prong, Vortex (3rd Gen) Phantom (original) and two prototypes of the 5 slot (partially closed bottom) Phantoms. All were mounted on 16" barrels and night fired with identical ammo. Only the Vortex and 5 slot Phantoms had no flash. The original Phantom had a slight bit more and the other three were terrible. Somewhere, someone, has pictures of same. |
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The mushrooming issues have been discussed ad infinitum. Furthermore, they are issues from the pst -- the distant past and were limited to a very small lot as discussed above. I have several of the latest model G6A2 types, and their variants to include the G6A2 5.56mm, the limited production G6A2 6.5mmG/6.8mm and the very new "Direct Connect" (DC) Vortex for use on the (EBR-14) M-14. A few versions for the M249 and M240 as well. None of these have mushroomed or shown any signs of fatigue after many, many thousands of rounds. In part, this should not be suprising since the surface hardness of the G6A2 is RC 58-60 (!) with a core hardness pushing RC 40. Tough enough for you. I know, because I saw the physical testing results at ARDEC last year. Interestingly enough, but not entirely germane to this thread, the G6A2 M249 actually improves group size. BTW, the systemjust became available with an extremely robust BFA that works on the M-4 & M16 as well (USG only). As an aside, I wish these forums had more in the way of technical discussions from people who use M-15-related components in their official capacity. DCD Ft. Benning used to have such a discussion board but it is no longer up. Too bad. Still, it is interesting, although frankly anecdotal to hear the observations of consumers at the retail level -- but only that. Every once in a while though, a forum contributor comes up with an observation that Force Developers/Modernizers can actually appreciate. An believe me -- they, we are listening. When you use these items every day in real life siutations, these matters take on an entitrely different tone. Somehow commentary on how "cool" or "bad" something looks, without a critical discourse on on the technical merits is amusing at best to troops on the line. |
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