Posted: 11/20/2010 11:34:11 PM EDT
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I've always been interested in taking accurate shots beyond 300 yds/meters and now am making the kind of money that I can afford a good scope and some training. Yeah, I don't know anything about distance precision shooting.
My question is: I have a friend who has a Rem model 700 that he's willing to sell me for $375 and it has only 15 rounds through it. Or, should I just stick with my M14 and pump the extra money into a scope mount. I'd like the 'one gun' for all but I know this isn't really a possibility. Any suggestions appreciated. |
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I am guessing that for $375 you would be getting a sporter profile barreled 700. For a few more bucks you can get a SPS Varmint or SPS Tactical which are much more "accurate" than a sporter barreled 700 and your M1A. A M1A is not a precision rifle without putting alot of cash into it (stock, bedding, etc...). You will pay more just for your scope mount than your buddy wants for his rifle if you try to use your M1A and that does not include the comb riser to get your cheek weld in line with the scope.
A SPS Tactical will easily shoot .5 MOA all day long depending on your ammo. A box stock SPS Varmint will shoot closer to .75 MOA because of the cheesy stock they come with. http://www.snipercentral.com/spstactical.htm |
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I would not recommend you try to use the M14/M1-A for this.
A bolt gun is what you want, especially if you are learning. I agree on the SPS but would strongly recommend the 24" varmint over the tactical. A 20" barrel in 308 is going to give you an 800Y rifle. The 24" will show a lot better performance out long. Also take a look at the Savage LE series. Great guns for the money and I have yet to see one that won't shoot as well as a Remmy. ––Fargo007 |
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In the Marine Corps we were taught to shoot a 3MOA 5.56 beat to snot colt effectivly out to 500 yards.
Start working with Iron sights, breathing and trigger control with your m14 from 100 to 300 yards. Get a ballistics software package. I got one for my IPHONE. Start loggin your practice rounds. Temp, outside climate, windage at the rifle, windage at the target. Dont forget that a 55 grain round, 77 grain round and the make of the round will produce different results. Log your results and you will see what works best in your rifle. There is a ton of good information on windage around ar15.com. Get a handle on that asap. As for the GARAND. That rifle has been shown to be very effective at taking out the objective at 1000 yards. Semper Fi |
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Both of these weapon systems have the capability to place long distance precision shots on target. The success is going to come from your fundamentals more than your gun. Your equipment will only be as good as your skill level allows. With which ever gun you choose, start out shooting 5 round groups at 100 meters with a 10x power scope until you consistently shoot a 1 inch or less spread. Basic fundamentals in body position, breathing pattern, trigger squeeze, and follow through will become second nature. If your fundamentals are poor at 100 meters, adding distance will only exemplify your errors increasing your percentage of a miss. Once you become consistent, begin working your way out, studying your wind readings and begin learning your scope and the effects of dialing in different data into your elevation and windage. A simple ballistic chart for your ammo grain will help with learning what to dial in as the distance increases.
I personally feel that a bolt action rifle is the best system to begin training with. It forces you as the shooter to take the time between each round to analyze your previous shot and identify what corrections need to be made. It forces you to slow down your pre-shot routine and become methodical in your shooting. Semi-automatic rifles are too easy to become frustrated with when not shooting well and the shooter will begin to just fly rounds down range with frustration. Just like a golfer on the driving range, some guys will slow down or even stop when they take a few poor swings, visualize what they need to do right and put it into action. Others become frustrated and begin whacking golf balls down range, slicing them left and right, one after the other. They are getting no practice from this and soon are all out of practice range balls with nothing to show for it. I have seen this happen on the firing range, magazine empty and a frustrated shooter with no more bullets to redeem himself. I have made hits on my M-14 out to 915 meters and with my Rem 700 out to 1,050 meters. They are both very capable rifles of conducting long range shots, put your money into your optics and your range time and you will be dinging steel down range in no time. Best of luck, LEGION |
PACK LARUE
SPECIAL OPERATIONS WARRIOR FOUNDATION @ www.specialops.org
"It is their final hour we celebrate - our fallen brothers who shine a light on the greatest attributes of dedicated men."
SPECIAL OPERATIONS WARRIOR FOUNDATION @ www.specialops.org
"It is their final hour we celebrate - our fallen brothers who shine a light on the greatest attributes of dedicated men."
Where in Utah are you? Once you are ready to go I may want to learn this side of shooting with you. I am in a build group but no one of the immediate members want to explore long range shooting. For now I'm using what I have (I too am trying to decide if I upgrade my optics on my 204 Ruger w/shilon heavy barrel Savage or my M1A1 or possibly my 300 WSM hunting rifle all decently scoped, but want a mildot). 
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I have owned my M1A since 1978. I've owned my Rem. M700 Varmint Special (.223 Rem., not .308 Win.) since 1981.
I spent a lot of time/effort/money trying to make the M1A shoot like the M700. I finally gave up. I learned after awhile that if I missed with the M700 it was my fault. That rifle just didn't miss unless I screwed up the shot. If I wanted a really out of the box accurate .308 Win. it would be either the Remington set up with the right stock/barrel or Savage set up the same way. Savage rifles are under rated. If I wanted a rifle to shoot lots of shots, quick, inside 400 yds. it would be my M1A. |
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I have two different friends who have been frustrated by the M14's accuracy, and one who's frustrated by his 700, so pick your poison. :P
All indications are that the 700 is going to be a better bet. The M14 has a reputation of being a bit of a money pit, but various means of accurizing them esist. After owning a 700 and shooting a few M14s, I can say that the average M14 can be frustrating to learn on, while the 700 was *decent* (with too much recoil to be a great high-volume shooter for myself) Now, a *real* man would just shoot the M14 with irons at 300y. Perhaps after spending a little cash on accurizing the trigger, barrel, ... |
| I own a Rem 700 in .308 and have only plinked with an M1A. The Remington has a very good reputation. The Army still uses an aluminum bedded 700 for their base sniper rifle. The USMC uses the action from the Rem 700. In my opinion the 700 is also easier to use. With a decent scope from Cabela's i've pushed my 700 to 500yds on a 12" steel target. In the end, what you choose is up to you. |
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I own both and I would recommend the Remington 700. The first reason is the trigger on the 700 is easier to tune the trigger pull also aftermarket triggers and parts are easy to find. I don't know of any one who can get a M1A trigger less than 3 lbs. Remingtons are like Mustangs there are millions of aftermarket parts for them. No matter which rifle you get expect to spend $1000 or more for good glass with target turrets. Forget about bullet drop compensator reticle go with a MIl dot, TMR or a MOA ranginging reticle.
Scott V www.centerfiretraining.com |