User Panel
Posted: 3/15/2021 7:17:27 PM EDT
I have looked at multiple credible ex special forces/SOF guys and it's honestly a variety. Larry Vickers has videos where he has a slight bend. Pat McNamara (Delta) I saw does both. Chris Sajnog (SEAL Teams) shows locked elbows. Fred Ruiz (SEAL Teams) showed locked elbows. This is for the typical modern day isosceles stance (a staggered boxing stance)
It seems there is no wrong answer but curious to hear opinions. |
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Locked.
Well, not locked locked. But mostly extended. |
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Not often are things technically wrong in shooting but locked elbows is definitely wrong. I can't think of a single decent uspsa shooter who has locked elbows.
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Not locked.
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Better not to have them locked, you absorb recoil better that way.
Sometimes though, under stress we sometimes punch it out all the way. It happens. But ideally we want elbows slightly bent. |
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Don’t equate SOF background for competency with pistols. The only SOF group that actually has significant proficiency with pistol is 1SFOD-D (Delta, CAG, ACE, etc). For everyone else in the military, the pistol is a secondary or tertiary weapon system. MARSOC does have some good proficiency though, but SEALs definitely don’t. I have first-hand stories of SEALs not being anywhere near as good of marksmen as people like to think they are.
If you want to learn proper pistol shooting, you go to a cop or a competition shooter. People who run the pistols as a primary weapon system and have thousands of hours on the pistol versus a few hundred. If you look at the shooters who really know what they’re doing, you’ll see a slight bend in the elbow. Their elbows are not locked. |
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Originally Posted By JoeDevola: Better not to have them locked, you absorb recoil better that way. Sometimes though, under stress we sometimes punch it out all the way. It happens. But ideally we want elbows slightly bent. View Quote This, plus if you need to move flexible to move to the next position. |
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VCDL Member
NRA Life Member |
Paul Howe advocates locked elbows for consistency...
But I use bent, for the reasons above. My consistency is good enough without locking elbows. YMMV |
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Your looking in the wrong place. Look at the top competitive shooters. You will find 99% don’t lock their elbows unless shooting one handed.
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How about the super tactical guys who shoot a handgun with elbows fully bent?
I get it I suppose if you're indoors, crowded with obstacles, and need to maintain a smaller stance and keep your weapon close. I guess there isn't really a wrong way to do it if you train for it. |
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The real question is do you turn your gat sideways to make them feel da heat?
. . . . . . . . . . . (Slight bend to the elbows) |
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Slight bend. Or however much bend is comfortable, just don’t do that Chris costa elbows straight out to the side shit. And don’t fully extend them.
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I could be wrong, but betting the guy in the bottom pic with a locked elbow is IDPA. From what I have seen here in Austin, it appears MUCH slower than other run and gun sports where that would be more of a deficit.
Originally Posted By Superluckycat: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/106895/download__1__jpg-1868815.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/106895/download_jpg-1868818.JPG View Quote |
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In order to improve, you will be battling your own habits, predispositions, and self-limiting ideas. — Ben Stoeger
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Originally Posted By battlestick: I could be wrong, but betting the guy in the bottom pic with a locked elbow is IDPA. From what I have seen here in Austin, it appears MUCH slower than other run and gun sports where that would be more of a deficit. View Quote |
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Originally Posted By battlestick: I could be wrong, but betting the guy in the bottom pic with a locked elbow is IDPA. From what I have seen here in Austin, it appears MUCH slower than other run and gun sports where that would be more of a deficit. View Quote You're definitely wrong about Bob Vogel (multiple time national champion shooter), but you are right that IDPA scoring penalizes poor accuracy very heavily and as such, IDPA tends to be slow and boring. |
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Originally Posted By edcing: I have looked at multiple credible ex special forces/SOF guys and it's honestly a variety. Larry Vickers has videos where he has a slight bend. Pat McNamara (Delta) I saw does both. Chris Sajnog (SEAL Teams) shows locked elbows. Fred Ruiz (SEAL Teams) showed locked elbows. This is for the typical modern day isosceles stance (a staggered boxing stance) It seems there is no wrong answer but curious to hear opinions. View Quote None of those people are shooters you should be looking to as SME's on pistol shooting. They'd be mid-pack at best among weekend warrior dentists and insurance salesmen at any USPSA match. As to your actual question.... both locked and bent elbows are perfectly viable shooting techniques and you can achieve the highest possible levels of proficiency with either one. |
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Originally Posted By ClangClang: None of those people are shooters you should be looking to as SME's on pistol shooting. They'd be mid-pack at best among weekend warrior dentists and insurance salesmen at any USPSA match. As to your actual question.... both locked and bent elbows are perfectly viable shooting techniques and you can achieve the highest possible levels of proficiency with either one. View Quote |
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It doesn't matter.
Do what works for you. |
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Originally Posted By dangus: How about the super tactical guys who shoot a handgun with elbows fully bent? I get it I suppose if you're indoors, crowded with obstacles, and need to maintain a smaller stance and keep your weapon close. I guess there isn't really a wrong way to do it if you train for it. View Quote center axis relock. a very close quarters technique. worthless in almost every other situation |
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Not locked but extended. Probably from shooting magnum revolvers back in the day. I'll have to try locked next time I go to the range.
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Not a pilot, just like airplanes.
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Simply shoot one handed :-) Locked in that case. Oh - and the manual of the Desert Eagle in .44 Mag even says you need to lock, otherwise there may be too much energy lost and the firearm may not cycle...
NRA trainings say "arms fully extended"... |
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Center Axis Relock, do you even John Wick bro?
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I'm going wth 85% lock. In my opinion it's more about "allowing" the weapon to cycle as efficiently as possible. I, after 1000s of rounds, can feel the subtle differences in certain rounds vs. others. Knowing THAT about ME gives me great confidence in my style as I can have ZERO worry about functionality and THAT allows me to focus on hitting my target. YMMV but that's my thought on the matter.
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Originally Posted By ClangClang: You're definitely wrong about Bob Vogel (multiple time national champion shooter), but you are right that IDPA scoring penalizes poor accuracy very heavily and as such, IDPA tends to be slow and boring. View Quote |
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Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt. That's the first thing they teach you.
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Locking your elbows is going to increase your muzzle flip because you’re absorbing less recoil with your body. Kind of like trying to land a jump with your legs locked. Ideally you want to have your elbows slightly bent and allow the gun to return to its point of aim with as little intentional movement on your part as possible.
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Originally Posted By Superluckycat: Originally Posted By ClangClang: None of those people are shooters you should be looking to as SME's on pistol shooting. They'd be mid-pack at best among weekend warrior dentists and insurance salesmen at any USPSA match. As to your actual question.... both locked and bent elbows are perfectly viable shooting techniques and you can achieve the highest possible levels of proficiency with either one. |
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Whenever there is any doubt, there is no doubt. That's the first thing they teach you.
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Originally Posted By Spiffums: Not if I'm shooting! I'm blasting 3 rounds per target.....got to make up those -0s ya know and getting quick split times! I look hella fast on video LOL View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Originally Posted By Spiffums: Originally Posted By ClangClang: You're definitely wrong about Bob Vogel (multiple time national champion shooter), but you are right that IDPA scoring penalizes poor accuracy very heavily and as such, IDPA tends to be slow and boring. LOL. I read the original post and was going to respond something similar. The few IDPA matches I have shot I've been like 'Fuck yo rules!' and shot it like a USPSA match. I collected my penalties with pride! Failure to do anything right! |
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