Today's Training (Page 3 of 3)
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Kyle Lamb knew what he was doing when he designed these things. Yes he did. There was a lot of thought that went into that design. I did some zeroing and confirmation fire last weekend: Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By R_S: Yes he did. There was a lot of thought that went into that design. I did some zeroing and confirmation fire last weekend: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4506_JPEG-3268601.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4507_JPEG-3268602.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4505_JPEG-3268603.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4509_JPEG-3268605.JPG What range did you zero at? |
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Originally Posted By Cascade-Dude: Friday and Saturday's training was shooting, shooting, and more shooting. I got some help getting my MOLLLE mag pouches attached to my surplus belt so I could start getting serious with reloading drills. I've decided the Modified Navy Qual Drill is one I want to master. 8" circle at 50 yards, 5-shots standing, reload, five shots kneeling, reload, five shots prone. My first time was horrible and my second was just really bad, even tough is was a third faster. Accuracy wasn't terrible. I got 10 of 15 and 11 of 15 in the white circle. That's the way I want it. Accuracy first, then speed. Speed means nothing without accuracy. I like that it requires reloads and that it requires rapid transitions to change shooting positions. All are good muscle memory to develop. I worked with the narrow openings on the V-TAC barricade to come up with a way to shoot through them without moving my flashlight, without putting holes in the barricade, and without resting the barrel on the barricade and disrupting it's harmonics. What i discovered was this: I can anchor the muzzle-end of the rifle on the barricade using the "teeth" on the front of the flashlight and give myself a straight shot through the slit with the rifle angle matching the angles of the slit. It takes a little mental work to adjust for drop with the rifle canted 45 to 90 degrees but it wasn't so hard I couldn't hit a torso gong at 100 yards doing it. My fellow arfcommer is using a different technique. He's putting his off hand on the barricade, the barrel through the barricade, n then bracing the fore-guard with the off hand gripping the barricade. His rifle has a shorter fore-guard than mine and several inches of barrel extend past the the end of his fore-guard. Mine is full-length. Next time out, I want to run the 9-hole drill 4-6 times. There are nine holes in the barricade. Timed drill, complete with one hit on a gong at 100 yards through each of the nine holes. It's an incredibly challenging drill. Kyle Lamb knew what he was doing when he designed these things. I shot from prone at 50 and 100 yards quite a bit while sighting and was pleased with my best 3 of 5 groups. When I missed, I was able to call my shots, until I started getting fatigued. Thanks to the other shooters, I had the opportunity to shoot some amazing firearms. I learned more about my physical limitations, this time with the heat. Despite pouring water into myself all day long, the heat got to me starting in the early afternoon. So I need to make some adjustments just like I did after my first cold-weather session. Age and my past unhealthy choices have had a big impact on my ability to tolerate temperature extremes and I have to be smart about being prepared for it and to take care of myself when I'm out in it. Thanks to my friends for helping me with reminders to take breaks and get hydrated too. Every time I go out, I learn new things and get better at the things I know. I couldn't ask for more. Yesterday's training was recovering from Friday and Saturday. Today's training will be some time on the dry-fire range with my wife's AR so I can stay in touch with her mil-spec trigger. When I fired it over the weekend, the difference between it and my Geissele triggers was brought home to me. So I need more time with it. I'm also going to do some upper-body rifle drills. Tomorrow, I'm planning to do a three-hour sunrise resistance workout at the gym followed by some time at the range with ten rounds per mag for reloading drills and with rubber dummy bullets randomly inserted into them for malfunction drills ... while doing ready-up drills. This is a panoramic shot, so it's distorted. The curved striations you see in the ground are actually straight lines and all the targets are, in fact, squared up to the firing line. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/582146/July_Range_Day_3-3267501.jpg The firing line. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/582146/July_Range_Day_2-3267502.jpg I think there are 9 or 10 target stands out there. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/582146/July_Range_Day_1-3267500.jpg Yeah man that was a blast shooting out there with you again! We got good things done, and made progress. Was nice to have good weather for a change. Fighting the wind was getting old! Love working that barricade. Thank you for building it so solidly! Was cool to hear your shot timer and look over and see you running the MNQ, like it ain't no thing. You've come a long way my friend! After Stompah left, I set up across the pit and did a little shooting at 300 yards. I'd regret it if I didn't! |
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Originally Posted By VillageIdiot2: What range did you zero at? Originally Posted By VillageIdiot2: Originally Posted By R_S: Yes he did. There was a lot of thought that went into that design. I did some zeroing and confirmation fire last weekend: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4506_JPEG-3268601.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4507_JPEG-3268602.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4505_JPEG-3268603.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4509_JPEG-3268605.JPG What range did you zero at? 50 yards. I got some data with my chrono to build a custom zero... but with 77grn in a 16 inch barrel... 50 yards was GTG. For my 11.5 pistol, the data suggests a 32 yard zero would give me a flatter trajectory out to 220 yards (+/- 3 inches). May confirm a 32 yard zero this weekend if I get the chance. Overall not super impressed with the 77grn AAC OTM. I have had sub moa on a 3 rd group before... but this time I didn't use a bipod or magnification so I wasn't expecting a super tight group... the results were far short of what I would call match. More like standard ammo. Guess there is a reason why SMK costs more. Confirmed my zero with steel at 100 and 200. Wanted to go further, but the 400 yard range was busy at that moment. Will get the chance to get out further this weekend. |
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Originally Posted By R_S: 50 yards. I got some data with my chrono to build a custom zero... but with 77grn in a 16 inch barrel... 50 yards was GTG. For my 11.5 pistol, the data suggests a 32 yard zero would give me a flatter trajectory out to 220 yards (+/- 3 inches). May confirm a 32 yard zero this weekend if I get the chance. Overall not super impressed with the 77grn AAC OTM. I have had sub moa on a 3 rd group before... but this time I didn't use a bipod or magnification so I wasn't expecting a super tight group... the results were far short of what I would call match. More like standard ammo. Guess there is a reason why SMK costs more. Confirmed my zero with steel at 100 and 200. Wanted to go further, but the 400 yard range was busy at that moment. Will get the chance to get out further this weekend. What kind of velocities were you getting out of your 16" with those 77 gr? Ive been seeing AAC ammo all over on Palmetto SA. Thought they were a more smaller "niche" manufacturer but I have been interested in peoples experiences ETA: It's refreshing to see folks who apply this sort of effort and attention to detail in regards to their rifle zeroes. |
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Originally Posted By VillageIdiot2: What kind of velocities were you getting out of your 16" with those 77 gr? Ive been seeing AAC ammo all over on Palmetto SA. Thought they were a more smaller "niche" manufacturer but I have been interested in peoples experiences ETA: It's refreshing to see folks who apply this sort of effort and attention to detail in regards to their rifle zeroes. 16 inch barrel: temp: 88 deg day ammo: AAC 77grn OTM Velocity (fps) 2574 2607 2623 2593 2589 2593 2647 2607 2549 2662 2663 2620 2610.6average 35stdev 11.5 inch barrel: temp: 87 deg day ammo: AAC 77grn OTM Velocity (fps) 2161 2188 2147 2190 2126 2144 2195 2181 2183 2168.3average 25stdev Honestly I can't recommend this stuff as match ammo. That said I did get dialed in yesterday and had the chance to shoot deep into the night this Sat/Sun with NVG. With the 16in rifle using magazine support, dialed in EOTech (no magnifier), and range card for the 77grn ammo taped to the stock I had no issues cleaning a wide variety of steel targets out to 400 yards. 2/2 for 8 inch round steel plate at 200y, 2/2 for C-Zone sized silhouettes at 250 and 350 yards. 1/2 on 1/3 size silhouette at 300 yards, and 3/3 on full size silhouette at 400. Clearly I need good range cards for all my rifles. Will post more info when I get the chance to do a write up. teaser: Attached File |
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Originally Posted By R_S: 16 inch barrel: temp: 88 deg day ammo: AAC 77grn OTM Velocity (fps) 2574 2607 2623 2593 2589 2593 2647 2607 2549 2662 2663 2620 2610.6average 35stdev 11.5 inch barrel: temp: 87 deg day ammo: AAC 77grn OTM Velocity (fps) 2161 2188 2147 2190 2126 2144 2195 2181 2183 2168.3average 25stdev Honestly I can't recommend this stuff as match ammo. That said I did get dialed in yesterday and had the chance to shoot deep into the night this Sat/Sun with NVG. With the 16in rifle using magazine support, dialed in EOTech (no magnifier), and range card for the 77grn ammo taped to the stock I had no issues cleaning a wide variety of steel targets out to 400 yards. 2/2 for 8 inch round steel plate at 200y, 2/2 for C-Zone sized silhouettes at 250 and 350 yards. 1/2 on 1/3 size silhouette at 300 yards, and 3/3 on full size silhouette at 400. Clearly I need good range cards for all my rifles. Will post more info when I get the chance to do a write up. teaser: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4563_JPG-3274245.JPG You ever been to Triple C shooting range, or out in McKinney? |
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Originally Posted By VillageIdiot2: You ever been to Triple C shooting range, or out in McKinney? Originally Posted By VillageIdiot2: Originally Posted By R_S: 16 inch barrel: temp: 88 deg day ammo: AAC 77grn OTM Velocity (fps) 2574 2607 2623 2593 2589 2593 2647 2607 2549 2662 2663 2620 2610.6average 35stdev 11.5 inch barrel: temp: 87 deg day ammo: AAC 77grn OTM Velocity (fps) 2161 2188 2147 2190 2126 2144 2195 2181 2183 2168.3average 25stdev Honestly I can't recommend this stuff as match ammo. That said I did get dialed in yesterday and had the chance to shoot deep into the night this Sat/Sun with NVG. With the 16in rifle using magazine support, dialed in EOTech (no magnifier), and range card for the 77grn ammo taped to the stock I had no issues cleaning a wide variety of steel targets out to 400 yards. 2/2 for 8 inch round steel plate at 200y, 2/2 for C-Zone sized silhouettes at 250 and 350 yards. 1/2 on 1/3 size silhouette at 300 yards, and 3/3 on full size silhouette at 400. Clearly I need good range cards for all my rifles. Will post more info when I get the chance to do a write up. teaser: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4563_JPG-3274245.JPG You ever been to Triple C shooting range, or out in McKinney? Short answer is no. Triple C was a great facility, but far. |
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Originally Posted By Crye_Sum_Mo: The 11.5" fps seems quite low. I get an avg of 2433fps out of an 11.5" midlength with AAC 77gr OTM's. Honestly I was shocked it was that low. Will gather some more data on my next trip out to see if I get anything different. |
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Originally Posted By Crye_Sum_Mo: The 11.5" fps seems quite low. I get an avg of 2433fps out of an 11.5" midlength with AAC 77gr OTM's. That's surprising, I think his velocities are what I'd expect out of 11.5". Ixll have to look at data when I get home, but I'm pretty sure my 75gr loads are in the 2100-2200 fps range out of 11.5" |
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I've been chugging along doing my cable resistance workouts (which now seem incredibly boring), followed by two days of swimming. Stretching every day of the week. Daily dry-fire and weekly indoor range visits. Rifle presses a few times a week. I finally got all of my tests done and the docs have eliminated any sort of vascular or cardiac problem. That must mean it's muscular/skeletal. So that's a big woo-hoo. I'll be getting together with my personal trainer to figure out a rehab schedule. I only have two months to get ready for Spartan Games I've lost three months to this injury or condition or whatever it is, already. Realistically speaking, the odds that I'll be ready to compete in two months are pretty grim. I'm going to give it a shot anyway. This is from the past three weeks of carbine training. I don't always shoot 125 rounds a week but I have the past three. My main focuses now are reloading and clearing malfunctions.  
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"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield
-- Jules Winnfield
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Originally Posted By R_S: 16 inch barrel: temp: 88 deg day ammo: AAC 77grn OTM Velocity (fps) 2574 2607 2623 2593 2589 2593 2647 2607 2549 2662 2663 2620 2610.6average 35stdev 11.5 inch barrel: temp: 87 deg day ammo: AAC 77grn OTM Velocity (fps) 2161 2188 2147 2190 2126 2144 2195 2181 2183 2168.3average 25stdev Honestly I can't recommend this stuff as match ammo. That said I did get dialed in yesterday and had the chance to shoot deep into the night this Sat/Sun with NVG. With the 16in rifle using magazine support, dialed in EOTech (no magnifier), and range card for the 77grn ammo taped to the stock I had no issues cleaning a wide variety of steel targets out to 400 yards. 2/2 for 8 inch round steel plate at 200y, 2/2 for C-Zone sized silhouettes at 250 and 350 yards. 1/2 on 1/3 size silhouette at 300 yards, and 3/3 on full size silhouette at 400. Clearly I need good range cards for all my rifles. Will post more info when I get the chance to do a write up. teaser: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4563_JPG-3274245.JPG My testing wasn't nearly as scientific as yours but I fired some of the AAC 75-grain BTHP a couple of weekends ago and it grouped very similar to the PMC 55-grain FMJs I was shooting, albeit at 50 and 100 yards. Just FYI. I'm going to be trying three types of AAC 75/77 grain rounds at 100 and 200, and maybe 300 yards, in a few weeks. |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield
-- Jules Winnfield
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That makes sense. I always feel like I'm better off overall shooting rifle when I've spent some time doing just that, laying down and shooting groups, farther out. Sort of a "back to basics" thing, as it really forces you to concentrate on all 4 fundamentals. I think I start to get sloppy over too many weeks of close-in rapid fire drills. Read your review of that class BTW, what an edifying learning experience. What a privilege! |
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Originally Posted By JoeDevola: That makes sense. I always feel like I'm better off overall shooting rifle when I've spent some time doing just that, laying down and shooting groups, farther out. Sort of a "back to basics" thing, as it really forces you to concentrate on all 4 fundamentals. I think I start to get sloppy over too many weeks of close-in rapid fire drills. Read your review of that class BTW, what an edifying learning experience. What a privilege! I always seem to learn more than I expect from Unit guys. Being relatively new to NV it was fortuitous to have that as my first full weekend NV class. |
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So I took more crono data (this time a cloudy morning) and I think I got better numbers on the 11.5 inch barrel:Attached File AAC 77grn OTM, 85 deg day, 71% humidity 2259 2295 2361 2321 2314 2330 2349 2349 2359 Average: 2326 fps, std: 34 More like what I was expected out of it. Apparently traditional cronos aren't made for Texas (it's always sunny). They guys at the range tell me I need a doppler crono. My wife would probably approve as they take up less space. |
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Originally Posted By R_S: So I took more crono data (this time a cloudy morning) and I think I got better numbers on the 11.5 inch barrel:https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/33354/IMG_4595_JPEG-3278857.JPG AAC 77grn OTM, 85 deg day, 71% humidity 2259 2295 2361 2321 2314 2330 2349 2349 2359 Average: 2326 fps, std: 34 More like what I was expected out of it. Apparently traditional cronos aren't made for Texas (it's always sunny). They guys at the range tell me I need a doppler crono. My wife would probably approve as they take up less space. I know the sun always messes with mine also even with the sun shades on. I've been thinking of getting one of the new Garmin Xero's but hard to justify the price right now. OP, how's your training going? |
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Today's training was a long, boring cable resistance workout and 500 yards of swimming. The before and after hot tub sessions and sauna time were the best part. Tonight's training will be about a hundred dry-fire reloads using a surplus USMC battle belt, Esstec mag pouches, and a cheap dump pouch. If I have time to shorten the straps on the new chest rig, I'll get in some dry-fire reloading practice with them. I'm planning to run multiple move/shoot/reload drills this weekend and I want to get some muscle memory started. I had some good news on the fitness front. Whatever the problem is in my leg, it's not vascular and it's not related to my existing peripheral artery disease (PAD) nor has my PAD gotten any worse. And, even though the stenosis behind my left knee is an almost complete blockage, I have worked hard enough and suffered enough pain to grow enough new blood vessels that blood is flowing to my left foot at 60% capacity. And that, my friends, is plenty of capacity to not have anything down there amputated. The vascular surgeon said I had done so well, he sees no need for a surgical intervention at this time. It also means that whatever is going on with my left ham, quad, and abductor is a regular injury. And that means physical therapy, repair, and back to where I was at some point. Very doubtful I will be healed up in time for this September's Spartan Games but that's okay. I'll have that much more time to train for next year. I find it a lot easier to motivate myself to develop and increase my fitness than to just maintain it and that's all I've been doing for three months now. I'll be one happy camper to get back to Olympic lifting, EMOMs, battle ropes, kettle bells, wind sprints, and etc. And especially hiking. I'm thinking about giving myself a ridiculous goal. I call it 70 at 70. To meet this goal, all I have to do is ruck with 70 pounds when I'm 70 years old, which is about 28 months from now. How far and how steep ... I don't know yet. Bold? Crazy? Stupid? Beats me. Maybe some of each. |
"Call a magazine a clip again. I dare you, I double dare you mother******, call a magazine a clip one more ******* time!"
-- Jules Winnfield
-- Jules Winnfield
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I'm bumping this up, just because I feel like it. See my friend Cascade Dude passed away almost a year ago to the day, Apr 22, 2025, after a short but intense battle with pancreatic cancer. He'd been plagued with some health problems for a few years, and this was the final battle. He went down fighting, every step of the way. Never gave up. Our group of friends is diminished without him. I've taught a fair amount of people over the years, and I have to say he was the most motivated, eager, enthusiastic person I've ever met with regard to shooting, training, and advancing. He did everything he could to master the fighting rifle. While so many chumps on this board were busy taking pics of clean guns & gear, and babbling about it, this guy was out there with us, in the dirt, on the rocks, in the rain, in the heat, running, sweating, putting in the work, becoming, evolving, improving. It is a sublime & fulfilling joy to train with someone who is that focused and into it, all of it. He will be missed, always. |
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Originally Posted By JoeDevola: I'm bumping this up, just because I feel like it. See my friend Cascade Dude passed away almost a year ago to the day, Apr 22, 2025, after a short but intense battle with pancreatic cancer. He'd been plagued with some health problems for a few years, and this was the final battle. He went down fighting, every step of the way. Never gave up. Our group of friends is diminished without him. I've taught a fair amount of people over the years, and I have to say he was the most motivated, eager, enthusiastic person I've ever met with regard to shooting, training, and advancing. He did everything he could to master the fighting rifle. While so many chumps on this board were busy taking pics of clean guns & gear, and babbling about it, this guy was out there with us, in the dirt, on the rocks, in the rain, in the heat, running, sweating, putting in the work, becoming, evolving, improving. It is a sublime & fulfilling joy to train with someone who is that focused and into it, all of it. He will be missed, always. 
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