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Timestamps:
1:26 Offhand
8:09 Offhand result
8:23 Sitting Rapid
9:52 Sitting Rapid result
10:16 Prone Rapid
12:09 Prone Rapid result
13:35 Prone Slow 1
19:12 Prone Slow 1 result
20:23 Prone Slow 2
25:58 Prone Slow 2 result
26:12 Summary and scoreboard

While testing the FMJs the past couple months, I couldn't help but feel my skill had deteriorated. At home, I mocked up my A2 upper found my index points to transpose to the carbine.

I also went with a known quality of "the load" (no to be confused with C.E.Harris' "The Load"):
25gr H4895
50gr VMAX
CCI 400
2.255"

At the match, I quit thinking about what I didn't need to. Shutup and shoot. After this whole year of dead calm days and weather cancellations, the 15mph wind was unexpected, but seemed to trigger my old competitive spirit. The one that matches the quote from Days Of Thunder - "I'm not going faster, everyone else is going slower!" - which is evident in the comments during Offhand.

Between gusts, Offhand was steadier than I've been in a year.
The guy to my right gave an assist in Sitting (crossfired 8 of his 10 shots, great group though). The rules say I get the highest scoring 10 shots, hence the OnTarget analysis omitting holes. My NPA was high 10-ring though.

Prone Rapid, my Natural Point of Aim settled the crosshairs a bit low.
Prone Slow was superb. When I executed the shot properly, it went in the X-ring. If I wasn't as smooth on the trigger, it stayed inside the 10-ring. It was weird to see light coming through the growing hole in my target when looking through the little Nikon scope. A unique distraction.

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ETA: my playlist since I first assembled the carbine and borrowed an Ultradot.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL9TyMPgrmEl0pYPL84rJcKgbfr98zPs1w

Natural point of aim.
484/500-12x

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Dad made a couple light boxes to help see our holes. It worked too good. One pale white spot of a disc is a thing; multiple bright white spots is another. Probably would've been a distraction even with irons. I removed it before prone slow.

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The .gov profile handled the weight of the phone and mount well.



Timestamps:
0:49 - Offhand
5:49 - Offhand result
5:58 - Sitting Rapid Fire
7:56 - Sitting result
8:05 - Prone Rapid Fire
10:04 - Prone Rapid result
10:14 - Prone Slow Fire
16:20 - Prone Slow results
16:39 - Summary target
16:49 - Scoreboard

Appreciate your posts very much, I want to get into service rifle at some point and this info is excellent knowledge and fun! Thanks!

Are you running ballast in this rig?

No. Old grocery scale says it's still a pig for it's size at 8.3lbs +/-0.25.

Wow, that is light for a SR.

I think mine is about 18 lbs with the ballast.

I was wondering how you were holding it up in the offhand without resting the rig between shots, but the weight explains it.

Was the idea of the light box behind the target to give you real time shot hole visibility? I take it these are reduced distance matches so nobody is down range pulling or marking.

We added Shot Marker systems to our club and in some stages we can watch our own screens. They program a delay to simulate the target puller to keep it fair.

It has been well received by all the guest shooters.

Your offhand was good and considering this isn't really your SR rig, I would say very good. Thanks for the videography effort and thanks for posting.

Heavy is a good training tool for those learning when to break a shot to stay in the black, but my opinion is in competition, Service Rifle should be service rifle, excepting freefloating and 2-stage trigger.

The light box is to see the holes through the spotting scope from 100yds since we face east and have a backstop; a particular difficulty in winter. We got the idea from Terrell's 200yd range where they hang a sheet behind the targets and a 6 MOA hole cut in the target backer.

I think I've got my standing position with the carbine figured. I just have to not lie to myself, "this is not pointing naturally" instead of "this is how my position has been".
Last month I put the carry handle on to try a 0.034" post and it was an easy 96+ if I didn't hurk an 8. I'm a 1 power kinda guy.

I'll be curious to hear what you and others there think of Shot Marker when you get to shoot on one.

I like them so far.

I don't remember what Bayou Rifles has been using since the fall. That's 6 hours on the other side of Texas though. CMP's impeccable KTS is 2.5 hours from me, so that'll be my baseline someday.

After seeing your posts about your carbine, I put together one similar to yours.  I was finally able to take it out for a spin a couple days ago.

Short video of it in action.



I'm using a Ballistic Advantage Gov. profile carbine barrel in this.  It looks like it might have some potential.  10 shot group prone w/ sling.

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That eight was all me - I knew it was bad as soon as I sent it, I was just hoping it was not going to be that bad!  Without the eight the rest of the group is right about 1 MOA

This was using Nosler 69gr HPBT with AA2460

Only put 40 rounds through it that day, but I think I will like it except for one thing - the mount puts the scope pretty high, and I felt like I was really having to crane my neck to use it.  I think I will have to work on a better way of mounting the scope.

Heck yeah, dude!

ETA: when you say crane, are you holding upwards and feeling it in the middle of the base of the neck? Or left/base of neck?

If that's the PA Basic, I think it's 1.55". ACOGs are supposedly 1.54". The sling tightness brings the face over the buffer tube making the height seem higher.

Takes away some of the advantage, I think.

These rings have about as much cantilever, but Leupold says they're 1.4". Less expensive than an ADM Recon PB.

Brony, you're using a 16-inch barrel and carbine-length gas?!

Craning upwards, middle/base of neck.  It is the PA mount.  The mount and rings I have on my 20" service rifle put the scope at about 1.4".  Who would have thought that .15" would make such a difference.

0.15" plus stock thickness. Switch lowers to see how much 0.15 does.

Yep. Core15 CL 1:7 (measured 7.7) barrel made around 2013 . I'd prefer a 14.5 P/W for looks, but I got this in trade for an old Ess. Arms 1:9 20".

Incroyable!  Man, that's cool.. taken it to 600 with 80s yet?

You're right - I didn't even take into consideration the stock - no wonder this scope seems so much higher.

I only load maglength these days.

IIRC during a 3x600 it had a 176 using the BDC, a couple high 180s dialed - that was while learning how to fit the carbine and focus on the reticle. And last year a 177 with a slamfire into the 500yd line.

Get some NM gum or chew in the cheek.

Hey John, have you tried standing yet? I'm also curious how yours weighs. My old grocery scale reads 8.25lbs.

Haven't tried standing yet. I did not weigh it but if I had to guess it is probably 7.5 to 8 pounds.

Weather: 70s, overcast, negligible wind.

No stupid coat or mitt this time.
T-shirt, long sleeve shirt, and knockoff Mechanix glove. Would've used both gloves, but I was manipulating my phone a bunch to video a friend's performance.

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Standing went better than it looked, but didn't start well. Apparently lighter ARs don't play well with CCI 400s when held loosely, and I was awarded a mulligan. If you don't currently load with the barrel pointed level with the target line or below, practice it from now on.



Wobble was mostly infinity sign shaped from 8-ring to 8-ring. I called most of my shots in the middle of the 9-ring, mostly left or low. The 8s were perfectly on call. With a rifle, I pull into the shoulder with about 15lbs of force, divided approx. 40/60% with the support and firing hand respectively, though the support hand was the primary "driver". Practicing at home with the carbine, about 10lbs and 30/70%, and "driving" with the firing hand seemed to be better - I think the side 8 was support hand driven. A more aggressive trigger press helps to stay ahead of the reticle, but good finger travel and grip control is necessary.
The slamfire shook me up a little. Combined with coffee buzz phasing in during the string, my elevation control worsened, hence the high 9 and 8.

95/100.


Sitting was slightly worse than it looked. I called the 11:00 and 8:00 9s, but not the 3:00 and 4:30.
At home, I found that either a 2" sling tightening (vs 2" loosening for rifle) or crossing the left leg over right leg was better. I chose the shooter adjustment, and it worked rather well as the wobble was up and down inner-9 tall and stitched inner-9 wide.
An old timer, with an offset scope on his clip-fed M70 or M77 with a chin rest, had caught up. I was 2 points ahead and 1x down.

96/100-2x.


Prone Rapid really should not have been this good. It looked like poo. Shot #1 was the 11:00 scratch-10 that should have been an outer-9, and #2 the 3:30 8-ring. Wobble stitched mostly 9:30-3:30 within the 9-ring. Again, I think I was more aggressive on the trigger and it kept me ahead of the reticle when it turned inward.

97/100-3x.


For the first 10 shots of Prone Slow, I forget what my wobble was like, but recall it being related to pulse and about 9-ring wide. I think my grip and finger placement had the most effect on group placement. Odd because it usually pulls left, if any.
When zeroing this scope last month, it was bright out. During sighters at this match, I came 0.5 MOA right. When time started for this string, there was about 30 seconds of sunshine through a hole in the clouds that sealed up, but now I think the light condition (though still overcast) had brightened some. Maybe that had an effect?

98/100-2x.


In the prior string, no shots were outside my call radius, but I trusted my Natural Point of Aim was good. I went 0.5 MOA left for this string. The side shots were on call. The low ones were lower than expected. My stock placement or breathing must not've been as consistent. I did mind my grip and trigger better and I think it dampened the pulse.

95/100-2x.


Summary target.
481/500-9x.


It's been rainy here and that left a natural backstop face. A Marksman's hole on the left and mine on the right.


Aggregate.
That was a fun drag race with the ol' timer. My friend dropped a shot Standing, but has been consistent otherwise. I have Prone Slow practice plans for him that hopefully push him over Master class.


ETA: Load Data.

50gr VMAX
25gr Varget
FC case, 0.218ish" ID. Inside slightly scratched from a galled trimmer pilot.
CCI 400
2.250"

Nice shooting!

I brought my carbine out for its maiden match yesterday at our local 200 yard range.  Didn't have a great day with it.  Ended up with a 466 - 8x.

Offhand:  87
Sitting:    92 1x
Prone rapid: 94 2x
Slow prone: 193 5x

It was pretty windy, and that light carbine with the wind caught me off guard a few times.  Both rapids drifted to the left - I think I might be fighting my position a little bit because of the short handguard.  It just doesn't feel right.

Slow prone was OK.  Not sure how many of the wide shots were me or the load I was using.  It was a load I had thrown together without really testing it to see if my rifle liked it or not.  Seems OK, but I am going to work on it to see if I can't come up with a load that I know the carbine really likes.

I changed out the scope mount from when I tested it earlier to something lower and I am now much more comfortable behind the scope.

Overall I enjoyed using the carbine - it is a fun little rifle to shoot - just wish I had scored a bit better with it.  Maybe next time.

ETA: milked the trigger.

Not bad for 1st go. I think mine was a 465, more evenly split.

Standing, you gotta be ahead of the reticle. Heavier guns make good trainers, but standard weight shows who is good. It'd be funny if the wind calmed for your next match and you did worse.

The short handguard certainly affects Prone, but Sitting, I wonder if you're sensing the lack of weight pulling the gun down where it normally resides. How'd you like the recoil?

Also, what mount setup, and what load did you throw together?

Sitting has never been one of my better positions.  It felt a bit cramped but do-able, but like I said most of the shots were off to the left.  Could have been a scope adjustment error but was most likely just me.

Funny you should mention recoil .  I really have only shot reduced courses so far, and my regular service rifle has only a 1/9 twist, so I normally only shoot 50/52/53gr bullets (which shoot fantastically out of that rifle).  So with the light bullets and the heavy rifle, recoil is practically non-existent.

The carbine has a 1/7 twist, so I was using 77gr. with RE-15.  The recoil was more noticeable in the other positions, but offhand especially I kept getting whacked in the nose with the charging handle!

For the scope mount I went with a YHM riser and Leupold PRW rings.  This set up lowered the scope enough to be more comfortable for me than the PA mount I started with.

I'd give it another practice and match before making changes.

But sounds like you want another notch out and firmer pull into the shoulder for Standing. Sitting you may loosen the sling a little and square up some; bringing the support hand back to raise the rifle to the face, but not so much that the firing hand has to reach for the grip.

I'm gonna dryfire and see if I can get cramped as you say.

No coat and no glove, aiming at ~13ft.

I tightened my sling about 5" and while that bladed me more and brought my support hand forward, it lowered the position. I would have to move the scope forward a notch or two, but the head tilts more forward, making less cheek buildup. Wobble is still 10 to 10 vertical.

I tried that setting Prone and it angled my arm up enough to tuck the magazine on top of the forearm in the gray area of legal. The position was about an inch higher, the LOP seemed okay, and the grip's influence on NPoA seemed minimal. There was more squeeze on the support hand that a glove should mitigate. I couldn't tell if my wobble was side to side 9-ring or if I was just seeing parallax. Vertical control felt better.

I've preferred a looser sling since the time I shot at Camp Swift in 2017 when my firing point was angled up, but I may review this.

Easy load development for carbines: a safe standard load, and +/-0.5gr. Mine tends to prefer +.

75gr
24.0gr Varget
23.5gr RL-15
23.0gr H4895
23.0gr XBR 8208

50gr
24.5gr H4895
24.5gr Varget
24.5gr Benchmark
25gr IMR 4064 (slow, but accurate)
20.5gr H4198

I just finished a 16" Mid length with a short CLE tube for my kid. Has a 1/7 WOA fluted SDM barrel and it shoots surprisingly well. A little over MOA for 10 shots @ 200 yards.

Shot well enough that I'm thinking of shooting it in at least one match.

B

That with your usual rifle loads? Or is it still breaking in?

Better fix that sling mount distance before he goes chasing points.

We zeroed it from the bench with about 10 ball rounds then shot a dozen or so with 77s & 8208 off the bench. Just what I had kicking around on my bench for my regular A4.

My buddy shot it with some Nosler 77s & 8208. Shot the same group for 10 shots.

B

A friend said OKC has a leg match next week. The online calendar says it's a 1000 point. I hope for the latter as that would let me try the BDC and dial across the course.

Match plans fell through. Made up for it by coaching a young man in Prone Slow and probably got him 10 points off the bat, and no sacrifice in Rapid.

Then I helped him confirm zero on his TA02 sighted WWSD carbine with M193. Y'all've probably seen the meme "Some of you didn't do _ as a kid and it shows."? That's him and a standard trigger.
Unsupported prone, he was about 3 MOA left. Off a benchrest, he was 1 MOA left, but still grouping about 4 wide by 3 tall. I think I was 1 left/0.5 low, but grouped MR-31 9-ring.

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I then had him burn 4 of my remainder VMAXs through my P-lucky off the bench. 2 deep Xs, 1 deep 10, and 1 outer 10. He didn't refocus it or anything. My bench zero is usually 1 MOA higher than Prone, but I was impressed that he was so centered. He wanted to get used to a standard trigger as I guess that's what his college action shooting team will provide in their guns, but I think he's reconsidering getting a better one.

Quick report:

Low turnout yesterday. That let me put my camera further out above me without fear of being shot.
This was the first warm match since September. I think it got to 87* and 65% humidity when we finished at 11:10.

I had a couple mental lapses that dropped a few points, but I gained a handful of Xs. Maybe that was from sorting by neck tension into Rough and Easy for Standing and Sitting, and Good for the Prones.

479/500-13x.

Nice shooting! With two whole matches under my belt (lol) I definitely admire your consistency. I've been tempted to post about my journey/progress here but...

You mentioned earlier about helping someone with a prone practice routine - I would love to hear about that after falling apart in slow prone last week in the sweltering heat

I usually have a decent group of some sort but then invariably there are 3-4 flyers (I'm talking 7's) do to my inconsistency.

Thanks for sharing and any advice you have on the prone regimen.

Timestamps:
0:00 Standing
6:44 Standing result
6:51 Sitting
8:23 Sitting result
8:29 Prone Rapid
10:08 Prone Rapid result
10:14 Prone Slow 1
16:02 Prone Slow 1 results
16:09 Prone Slow 2
23:02 Prone Slow 2 result
23:08 Summary target
23:15 Aggregate

Standing, I didn't move the stock i a notch which I think I did last month. Wobble wasn't terrible, usual 8-ring wide, but it didn't settle in hardly. Trigger control was more relaxed as well, so I was behind the reticle for most of the string; it took a couple 8s to wake me up. My NPoA looks left, but I think that was just from being behind, and I tend to break shots when it comes in from the right.

Sitting, I did left-leg-over-right-leg again, but tightened my sling 5". The wobble stayed within the 10-ring. I think I was more bladed as recoil took longer to recover. The stock must not've been in the same spot as my NPoA was slightly low, or maybe my grip was pulling down a bit.

Prone Rapid was mostly an 8:00 to 2:00 oval. The first shot was ill timed low left, but the rest surprisingly seemed to settle in the 10-ring.

Prone Slow 1 wanted to settle in the top/right of the 10-ring again, but my timing moved the group left. Maybe my right elbow moved forward.

Prone Slow 2, I think my shirt rode up, making the shoulder loose, and I should've rebuilt the position. I think that caused most of the pulls left. I was getting a little tired too.

Load Data:
50gr VMAX
25gr Varget
FC case, 0.218ish" ID.
CCI 400
2.250"

Just curious... why you ran this without your coat and such?

Is it an exercise to build technique?

Coats may be good for training, but they shouldn't be necessary for a rifleman to shoot well.

Gotcha.
As a kid, I was able to see a Silhouette Match long before I got to see a Service Rifle Match. There just weren’t many service rifle shooters where I grew up, but almost everyone had a bolt action hunting rifle that would suffice for Silhouette.

In Silhouette they shoot naked offhand, they just stand and deliver. I liked it.

I recall my first impressions of 3P and SR. I couldn’t understand the fat gloves, sweaters and coats, etc...

So in a way, I get ya.

I still wouldn’t expect to be competitive if I tried to go through a match that way, but I would love to see the game go back to irons only and no coats and such.

I would add a rapid offhand too. One with five separate targets where you go over them twice with a mandatory reload to make it 10 shots and your missed shots and times produce your score for that stage. Just talking out loud.....

I'm new to this and have not yet bought a shooting coat. Shooters in the forums keep telling me I absolutely must have one asap if I want to improve and get good scores.

For several reasons it won't happen this season (my 1st) but perhaps next. I understand what folks are saying but it does bother me from a practical standpoint believing that a rifleman shouldn't need special equipment to perform.

Keep in mind that HighPowerRifleBrony is already a Distinguished rank and he is experimenting in this thread.

If you are just starting out, be careful not to go off track on details you are not prepared to digest.

The advice you were given wasn’t wrong. You are destined to have at least a light canvas coat if not a full up hardback.

Learning to shoot the offhand stage is going to be difficult, so get to work on it and save your pennies for the coat.

This isn’t a cheap sport to play in, so I am sympathetic.

In a way, I regret putting it off in my life. I wish I could have my eyes back, but I had to set priorities back then and I’m not really going to say they were wrong. In a different world, if I were a trust fund baby I would have been shooting Service Rifle competition when I was in my 20’s.

For now, read everything you can find on offhand shooting, practice and dry fire as much as you can, and save for the coat.

If you're gonna get a coat, get used to wearing a sweatshirt. Sucks before and during shooting, but when coat comes off there's temporary relief from breeze through the sweat, and it should keep the coat a little cleaner.

Yes, In warm weather, I wear a t-shirt and jeans to the range. As soon as I'm ready to shoot, I put on my sweatshirt and then my cloth military coat. As soon as the string ends, off come the coat and sweatshirt until the next stage :D

I have my eye on the Creedmoor hardback leather or at least cordura/leather sleeves for the future - we'll see, if I prove to myself that I am disciplined (and satisfied) enough to stick with this, that'll be one of my prizes.

The one and only match I’ve ever shot was an XTC match.
I borrowed a coat and glove. I don’t have the funds available to but both from Creedmoor but how helpful is just a glove? I really don’t want to borrow that stuff again.

Depending on how tight the sling tension is, a regular glove is enough to not get pinched, but may need to move the hand backward some so the veins aren't as compressed and compound pulse transfer.

With a rubber-covered pillow glove you can almost shove the web all the way against the sling swivel.

From your experience with Creedmoor. Would you say their sizing charts to be accurate? Mainly the gloves.

Dad has a Creedmoor Medium full-finger. I just measured my hand by rolling a ruler around it and got 9.5", so I should be Medium; Dad's hand is a little bigger. To me that glove is too tight - it's difficult to get on without undue wear. A Large is probably not easy to slip into, but roomy once in.

I don't have experience with Creedmoor coats, and don't have the means to measure my chest to compare with my CC and CSS coats.

Small update coming.