Posted: 6/5/2026 10:05:20 PM EDT
[Last Edit: R_S][Edited]
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The numbers are questionable, but if you want to understand where we are you have to start somewhere. The anti-gunners ran a study on this: Formal firearm training among adults in the USA: results of a national survey (2017) Participants were asked: “Have you ever had any formal firearm training?” Those who answered yes were then asked if the training included information about safe handling and storage of firearms, accident prevention, theft prevention and suicide prevention. Approximately three in five firearm owners (61.4%) report having received training. Among non-owners living with a firearm owner, 14.3% reported having received training. Male gun owners were more likely to receive training than female gun owners (63% vs. 48%). Other groups who were more likely to have received training include: firearm owners who own both handguns and long guns; those who own more than one firearm; owners who had a concealed carry weapon permit; and those who had carried a loaded handgun in the past 30 days. Those who reported owing a firearm for protection only were less likely to have received training than those who owned a firearm for other reasons such as hunting. The most common combination of training topics was safe handling, safe storage and accident prevention. Safe handling was the most commonly reported topic of training, while suicide prevention was the least common. 61.1 percent of firearm owners had received training in safe handling The survey also found broad agreement that gun owners should have training. 80 percent of respondents said that they agree or strongly agree that individuals should undergo training before owning their first firearm. Yet, 40 percent of gun owners have had no formal training. The Founding fathers expected us to be both armed and TRAINED. “For a people who are free, and who mean to remain so, a well-organized and armed militia is their best security.” – Thomas Jefferson quote: from message to Congress, Nov. 1808 "I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers." - George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788 “A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." - Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788 "We must train & classify the whole of our male citizens, and make military instruction a regular part of collegiate education." – Thomas Jefferson Citizens of America (with a few legal and official exceptions) from 18 to 50 Years of Age should be borne on the Militia Rolls, provided with uniform Arms, and so far accustomed to the use of them, that the Total strength of the Country might be called forth at a Short Notice on any very interesting Emergency They ought to be regularly Mustered and trained - George Washington 1783 The US Constitution proscribes formal training: Article I, Section 8, Clause 16 "To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;" I see this as a major failure of our nation. An unpaid militia member is extraordinary cost effective. They would cost almost nothing beyond minor incidental expenses, making them approximately 150 to 200 times cheaper per person than a U.S. Army soldier. ChatGPT lists these as just a few of the benefits: 1. Enhanced community cohesion: The shared responsibility of defense can foster a sense of unity and cooperation within the community. Militia members often have strong ties to their neighbors and are motivated to protect their homes and loved ones. 2. Checks on power: In some cases, a militia system can act as a check on the power of a centralized military force or government. This is especially relevant in societies where the government's control over the military is a concern. 3. Deterrent effect: The presence of an armed population ready to defend itself may act as a deterrent to potential aggressors, as it increases the perceived cost and risk of invasion or attack. 4. Training opportunities and self-reliance: Participation in a militia can offer valuable training in self-defense, leadership, and emergency preparedness. This can contribute to a greater sense of self-reliance among citizens. Mandatory training for firearms carrying and organizations like the NRA and Appleseed foster training in the US, but it appears that large numbers of gun owners are untrained. It seems to me we can only get better from here. Perhaps the easiest place to start is committing to train our family members? Thoughts? |
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...Mandatory training for firearms carrying... So while I advocate people get training for ALL firearms related endeavors hunting, CCW, matches, whatever, I am steadfast against it being mandatory. One thing I am in favor of is firearm safety training in schools. Parents could opt their kid out if they are uncomfortable with the idea. Full disclosure, I've been getting professional training for 47 years, including 24 years annually with my present employer, and I've seen TRAINED individuals do some pretty stupid stuff. So, yeah, as the saying goes, that's a no for me, dawg. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: See, this is where I gotta say, no. Mandatory means someone controls it. Imagine someone like Chuck Schumer in charge of mandatory firearms training. The bar to pass would be so high as to be unreachable. Maybe people haven't accessed training on their own, but the 2A doesn't say the right only applies to those who are trained, or who does it, or who tests it, etc. I understand that the idea is good...but it's not what a law is designed to do, it's what it can be TWISTED to do. So while I advocate people get training for ALL firearms related endeavors hunting, CCW, matches, whatever, I am steadfast against it being mandatory. One thing I am in favor of is firearm safety training in schools. Parents could opt their kid out if they are uncomfortable with the idea. Full disclosure, I've been getting professional training for 47 years, including 24 years annually with my present employer, and I've seen TRAINED individuals do some pretty stupid stuff. So, yeah, as the saying goes, that's a no for me, dawg. THIS. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: See, this is where I gotta say, no. Mandatory means someone controls it. Imagine someone like Chuck Schumer in charge of mandatory firearms training. The bar to pass would be so high as to be unreachable. Maybe people haven't accessed training on their own, but the 2A doesn't say the right only applies to those who are trained, or who does it, or who tests it, etc. I understand that the idea is good...but it's not what a law is designed to do, it's what it can be TWISTED to do. So while I advocate people get training for ALL firearms related endeavors hunting, CCW, matches, whatever, I am steadfast against it being mandatory. One thing I am in favor of is firearm safety training in schools. Parents could opt their kid out if they are uncomfortable with the idea. Full disclosure, I've been getting professional training for 47 years, including 24 years annually with my present employer, and I've seen TRAINED individuals do some pretty stupid stuff. So, yeah, as the saying goes, that's a no for me, dawg. |
Alea iacta est
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There was a time in America that firearm training was mandatory. If you didn't train on the regular you were required to pay a fine/tax to the govt. This may predate 1775 Other countries had a similar process and the training started in early childhood years with bows and arrows. These were put in place as defense of the country from invasion by enemies. I agree with the above that today the govt would twist the requirements to prevent ownership. Training and regular use of firearms is necessary for a variety of reasons. I don't know how to get more folks to shoot/train voluntarily. |
Why is TRUTH so elusive??
John 8:44 When [SATAN] speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
John 8:44 When [SATAN] speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it.
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Mandated training is the current reality in many states: Training requirements are set entirely at the state level, and they vary dramatically. Ten states require some form of training before purchasing a firearm, while roughly half of all states that issue concealed carry permits attach a training prerequisite. Firearm Safety Training Requirements by State Texas has constitutional carry... but if you want a Texas License to Carry(LTC), state mandated training is required. Texas LTC training may not be everything you need to know, but it's a starting point. There are states currently abusing their training requirements, like New Jersey: Shooting the New Jersey carry permit qual course: this course of fire may be a reasonable minimum for on duty law enforcement officers. It’s likely very similar to, or the same as, New Jersey state on duty police qualification standards. But it’s not a practical standard for the skills an armed citizen needs. Worse, the standards impose a burden on applicants to put in the effort necessary to attend the training and put in the practice necessary to meet them. This burden is highest on law abiding but low income citizens that may not have any of the resources needed (time, money, access to ranges & training). I’m sure this course of fire met its political objective, which was to create the appearance that New Jersey was meeting the Bruen standard, but also make it as difficult as possible for anyone to meet the new state standards. For all states with a mandatory training requirement, I think that the state should be required to pay for this training/range qualification, per the US Constitution. On the other side of the coin, freedom isn't free. The leftists want us unarmed and untrained. |
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ChatGPT Deep Research analysis of State Firearms training requirements shows the following: Key Patterns: States that still require permits almost always impose training. Coastal “may-issue” states (CA, CT, HI, IL, MD, MA, NJ, NY, RI) have among the longest courses (often ≥16 hours with range). Midwestern and Southern “shall-issue” states (FL, NC, SC, TX, IA, WI, etc.) typically use shorter courses (4–8 hours). Many permitless-carry states nonetheless require the same training for their optional permits (AZ, ID, KY, etc., not all shown here). In every training state, renewals rarely demand full re-training (exceptions: CA, IL, MN, etc., which mandate reduced refresher hours). Looks like it is not 100% correct, but seems to tell the story that anti-gun states use training requirements as a hurdle. |
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You've got that right, in that ANY state requiring training to excercise that right SHOULD pay for every penny of it. That said, I am against any kind of mandatory training, as others have said, I don't care how many states are into that What we need is a Spartan-like training culture, the way we used to be. It should be something folks want, and strive for. Sad state of affairs that there is so little discussion of actual training here on ARF, yet so much yapping about bolting on parts & taking pics. We need to find a way to promote the training mindset in mainstream culture. There is often a focus on owning guns, but much less about actually getting out and using them, realistically. Sadly many public ranges are sorely lacking in the facilities & environment to pursue real training goals. I have to drive out to the sticks to shoot "for real", as most ranges disallow much of what I want to do. No "death blossom" or "gun kata" idiocy of course, just shooting drills, using covet, multiple targets, etc. We need more ranges that will allow folks to progress beyond mere target shooting. The way you proliferate training is by making it something "we all do", make it common, make it "cool". Need to see it on billboards. |
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FWIW I do my part. I strive to learn, & practice, everything I can. I've taught a fair amount of shooters various things over the years, and am always willing to teach those who are interested. I enjoy disseminating what little I know, as I often learn something from the process. |
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Originally Posted By R_S: ChatGPT Deep Research analysis of State Firearms training requirements shows the following: Looks like it is not 100% correct, but seems to tell the story that anti-gun states use training requirements as a hurdle. Absolutely, DC requirement for CHP is 2 days of classes and a range qual...to renew...every 2 years. It is a PITA and they prohibit carry in so many places that it's hardly worth getting--that is their intent. |
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Another option is to allow high schools to teach firearms as an elective: North Carolina Lawmakers Propose Firearm Education Class (2017) Poland is already doing this: Firearm training in schools – new guidelines from the Ministry of Education and Science (2022) ![]() Poland makes firearms training mandatory for schoolchildren | Focus on Europe |
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Some states now require public schools to teach kids about gun safety (2025) Summary from Claude: States with Mandatory Firearm Safety in Public Schools Arkansas, Tennessee, and Utah are the first states to enact laws requiring public schools to teach firearm safety, beginning with the 2025–2026 school year. KSL NewsRadio Tennessee — passed its law in 2024, making it the first state to do so. All K–12 students must receive age-appropriate firearm safety instruction annually. Memphis schools began rolling out one-day gun safety classes in fall 2025, taught by PE and health teachers, with the district aiming to finish before fall break. Tennessee Government Arkansas — Governor Sanders signed the law in March 2025, requiring all public and open-enrollment charter schools to provide age-appropriate firearm safety instruction. NRA-ILA Utah — already had a statute allowing firearm safety instruction; the new law made it mandatory. Utah's version is the only one that allows parents to opt their child out. NRA-ILA States Moving in That Direction A similar law in Arizona was vetoed by the Democratic governor, and lawmakers in at least five other states have introduced similar proposals. Most recently, Oklahoma's House passed a bill in March 2026 with an 84–10 bipartisan vote that would allow (but not require) schools to offer firearm safety training. It must be age-appropriate, politically neutral, and include no live ammunition. What the Curriculum Covers The school-based programs are focused on safety awareness, not live-fire training: Young students (K–3) are taught not to touch a found firearm, to leave the area, and to tell an adult. Older students receive instruction on safe handling, storage, and how to avoid injury. Tennessee's curriculum must be viewpoint-neutral on political topics including gun rights and the Second Amendment. Bottom line: Only 3 states currently mandate it, with several more considering it. It's a growing but still very early trend — and importantly, none of the school programs involve live-fire training, so they wouldn't reduce the need for range-based adult training programs. ----------------------------------------------------------- Noteworthy that the Dems talk about the need for kids and gun safety and veto a gun safety course for kids. They absolutely don't want training. |
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Teach Your Children Well: Schools Step Up to Offer Firearm Safety and Education Programs(2025) Georgia’s HB 451 would allow public schools to offer hunter safety education courses in grades six through twelve. With strong bi-partisan support, this bill requires that the state Board of Education develop content standards for instruction in hunting safety no later than April 1, 2026. In Kansas, HB 2104 aims to standardize firearm safety education programs in school districts, with the goal of promoting student safety and teaching appropriate responses when encountering firearms. The state board of education would be directed to establish curriculum guidelines that vary by grade level with the option to use NRA’s Eddie Eagle GunSafe Program for kindergarten through fifth grade, with additional options to use other established programs for later grades. When a school district chooses to offer firearm safety education, it must follow state-established guidelines and ensure all students have an opportunity to take the course. Michigan HB 4285 would mandate the development and availability of a model firearm safety instruction program for students in grades six through twelve with topics covered to include proper firearm usage, safe handling, different types of firearms, and safe hunting practices. Seems like in addition to teaching your spouse, kids, nieces & nephews, cousins, grandkids, it's a good idea to support this in your state. Providing this training in schools at no cost to the individual looks like it lowers existing training barriers to hunting and handgun licensing. |
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I've been digging a little more into this with Claude: There are currently a number of different youth firearms training programs: Attached File The key distinction is depth of training: JROTC and competitive rifle programs provide genuine, hands-on, repeated firearms instruction over months or years — far more substantive than the new one-day classroom safety curricula. In many ways, JROTC has been quietly running one of the largest youth firearms training programs in the country for over a century, largely outside the current political debate. This is impressive, but percentages matter: Attached File The Takeaway Even with all these programs combined, only about 3–4% of K–12 students receive any live-fire firearms training in a given year, and perhaps 8–9% get even basic classroom safety instruction. The other 90%+ of American youth receive no structured firearms education at all — which puts in sharp relief both the scale of the existing programs and the size of the gap they haven't yet reached. With roughly 3.75 million students graduating from high school each year, the current system trains only a fraction before they reach adulthood — well before many will encounter firearms as adults, whether as gun owners, hunters, or in emergency situations. |
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I dug even deeper to find the most cost effective solutions: The Most Cost-Effective Strategy — A Tiered Answer Based on everything in this conversation, the evidence points to a clear hierarchy: 1. Highest ROI: Fund and expand state hunter education programs. Every state already runs them, they include live fire, they're cheap ($5–$25/student), and they have a 70-year track record. Removing barriers (cost, scheduling, access) could double participation at minimal incremental cost. 2. Second: Invest in existing volunteer organizations. 4-H, BSA, American Legion, and CMP already have the instructors, curriculum, and range relationships. The marginal cost of adding a youth to an existing club is very low. Targeted grants of $500–$2,000 per club could meaningfully expand capacity. 3. Third: Integrate classroom safety into K–12 curriculum. Following Tennessee's model nationally, using existing teachers trained once, delivers awareness to millions at low marginal cost per student — even if it doesn't replace live-fire training. 4. Reserve live-fire investment for middle/high school. The research consistently shows that hands-on, repeated training produces behavior change — not one-day awareness sessions. Directing resources toward the 11–18 age group through JROTC, 4-H, and school rifle programs where kids are old enough to retain and apply the training gives the best return on live-fire investment. The single biggest lever: At least two-thirds of JROTC units already include marksmanship training, meaning firearms safety instruction already exists in over 2,200 U.S. high schools. Funding the other third to add marksmanship — roughly 1,100 schools — would be relatively inexpensive and reach hundreds of thousands of additional students through infrastructure already in place. Bringing Hunter safety into schools as well as adopting Tennesee's model nationally and getting federal funding to expand JROTC marksmanship programs are government solutions I can support. |
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Asked Claude: How much would it cost to bring hunter education into schools, make Tennessee's model nationwide, and add 1,100 schools to the JROTC marksmanship program? Attached File The Bottom Line All three programs together would cost roughly $365–390 million to launch and about $400 million per year to sustain — less than 0.06% of the federal K–12 education budget of ~$780 billion. For context, that's about the cost of two F-35 fighter jets to stand up, and less than the annual budget of a mid-sized urban school district to run. The JROTC expansion is the clearest no-brainer: at $11–15 million one-time, it could add marksmanship training to 1,100 schools and reach over 100,000 students annually — at a cost roughly equivalent to what the federal government spends on school lunch programs in a single day. |
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And the details: Attached File The Honest Summary For roughly $400 million per year — less than the U.S. spends on school lunches in two days — this three-program initiative would: Ensure every American child graduates high school having received 13 years of age-appropriate firearms safety instruction Ensure roughly 1 in 5 graduates had at least one live-fire, supervised, structured firearms safety course before adulthood Produce ~100,000 genuinely skilled young marksmen per year with competition-level safety training The gap that remains: the roughly 78% of students who would get awareness training and hunter ed but not sustained marksmanship practice. Bridging that gap fully would require either dramatically expanding JROTC, building out 4-H and BSA capacity, or creating a new framework — likely costing several billion dollars more annually and requiring the range infrastructure and instructor pipeline expansion we covered earlier. But as a first step toward a more firearms-literate America, this three-program package is arguably the highest-return public investment in youth safety that has never seriously been attempted at national scale. |
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I was a 4H pistol coach for a time, and the training there wasn't exactly what many here would consider training. Don't get me wrong, the kids loved it and had a great time before one lunatic "coach" ruined the program in the area.
In fact, most NRA training that I am familiar with is not what the gun gurus here would consider training - I took the NRA Hunter Safety class at age 10, and still remember some of it today. Even my government provided yearly training would be laughed at by many of the truly dedicated here. If you want familiarization and safety, yes, 4H, JROTC, (our rifle team was air rifles, and ONCE we got to shoot M16A1, (yes, A1s!) on the range in FT Huachuca, all other rifles were demilitarized 1903A3s, and this was in the mid 80s), NRA hunter safety, absolutely highly recommended. One caveat, AZ CCW permit does require proof of training, which can be anything from a CCW permit from another state, military credentials, former LE or Corrections training, etc., not exactly stringent. I also shot the very first AZ CCW course back in '94, and 5 rounds at 5 yards and 5 at 10 isn't a real confidence builder. Mostly classes on law, not very much with actual firearms. I also worked on an indoor range in the 90s where a lot of CCW training went on - it's a real eye opener when a grandma brings a Ruger Blackhawk 44 Mag to take her test with. Spoiler, it was her grandsons gun and she had no idea what she was doing. We helped. I know you mean well, but it truly is the slippery slope, make it optional and highly encouraged. Make it mandatory, and people with ulterior motives will work to take it over, like Somali day care centers. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: I was a 4H pistol coach for a time, and the training there wasn't exactly what many here would consider training. Don't get me wrong, the kids loved it and had a great time before one lunatic "coach" ruined the program in the area. In fact, most NRA training that I am familiar with is not what the gun gurus here would consider training - I took the NRA Hunter Safety class at age 10, and still remember some of it today. Even my government provided yearly training would be laughed at by many of the truly dedicated here. If you want familiarization and safety, yes, 4H, JROTC, (our rifle team was air rifles, and ONCE we got to shoot M16A1, (yes, A1s!) on the range in FT Huachuca, all other rifles were demilitarized 1903A3s, and this was in the mid 80s), NRA hunter safety, absolutely highly recommended. One caveat, AZ CCW permit does require proof of training, which can be anything from a CCW permit from another state, military credentials, former LE or Corrections training, etc., not exactly stringent. I also shot the very first AZ CCW course back in '94, and 5 rounds at 5 yards and 5 at 10 isn't a real confidence builder. Mostly classes on law, not very much with actual firearms. I also worked on an indoor range in the 90s where a lot of CCW training went on - it's a real eye opener when a grandma brings a Ruger Blackhawk 44 Mag to take her test with. Spoiler, it was her grandsons gun and she had no idea what she was doing. We helped. I know you mean well, but it truly is the slippery slope, make it optional and highly encouraged. Make it mandatory, and people with ulterior motives will work to take it over, like Somali day care centers. All good comments! ![]() Youth firearms "mastery" to use the Claude term isn't really at all on par with adult firearms skill (which includes pistol, CCW, etc), but it is a foundation for safety and marksmanship that can be leveraged. As an instructor I would say courses like NRA Personal Protection in the Home and NRA Defensive Pistol are good defensive foundational courses. This NRA training is to get students to the proficiency level of where they demonstrate can execute necessary skills. They do not train students with the necessary repetitions to be able to execute those skills unconsciously or automatically. Few training programs do. Students are provided a copy of the NRA MQP program for further practice. Texas LTC does a fair job at explaining the law, safety, dispute resolution, and requires a 50 round pistol qualification based on law enforcement standards. Not difficult shooting and sadly the Law Enforcement standards are not all that realistic (weapon presentations, failure to stop, and other gun handling skills are neglected). I prefer my students to take NRA Defensive Pistol after they do LTC training to round them out, but sadly even offering an excellent discount few take me up on it. |
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Using Claude to examine costs to Expand Volunteer Organizations: What Does "Closing the Gap" Actually Require? The bottleneck isn't instructors — we established that 125,000+ NRA-certified instructors already exist. The real constraints are: 1. New clubs in underserved counties (urban, suburban areas with no existing 4-H or BSA shooting club) 2. Equipment for new clubs (rifles, air guns, PPE, targets) 3. Range access subsidies (urban youth can't easily get to rural ranges) 4. Instructor recruitment and retention in non-traditional communities 5. Awareness and outreach — millions of eligible youth simply don't know these programs exist Organization-by-Organization Expansion Cost 4-H Shooting Sports — Target: Double from 500,000 to 1,000,000 youth/year There are ~3,143 counties in the U.S. 4-H already operates in most, but shooting sports clubs exist in only a fraction. Starting a new 4-H shooting sports club requires finding certified instructors, enrolling with the county Extension office, and members pay a $20 annual program fee. The real costs are equipment and range access. One-time~$112M Annual recurring~$64M/year BSA Shooting Sports — Target: Double from ~500,000 to 1,000,000 youth/year BSA Range Master training is offered at no cost, and Basic Instructor Training runs just $25–$30 including materials. The marginal cost of adding shooting sports to existing troops is very low — the main barriers are equipment and range access. One-time~$23M Annual recurring~$4.5M/year CMP — Target: Double reach from ~300,000 to 600,000 youth/year CMP is uniquely efficient — it's federally chartered, self-funding through surplus rifle sales, and already trains JROTC instructors. Its main constraint is affiliated club density in urban areas and awareness. The MidwayUSA Foundation already distributes $7.5 million per grant cycle to 995 youth shooting teams across 46 states, with an endowment model that pays out 5% annually in perpetuity — meaning $1 donated today funds teams forever. This is arguably the most capital-efficient model in the space. One-time~$45M Annual recurring~$3.5M/year MidwayUSA Foundation Endowment Seeding — The Force Multiplier This deserves special attention. The MidwayUSA Foundation's endowment model means every dollar donated funds youth shooting teams permanently — paying out 5% annually forever, with a matching program that doubles local fundraising impact. The average payout per team per cycle is ~$4,400, covering ammunition, targets, entry fees, and travel. A $150 million endowment investment into this model would generate $7.5 million per year in perpetuity — funding roughly 1,700 teams annually, forever, with zero ongoing appropriation needed. Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: I was a 4H pistol coach for a time, and the training there wasn't exactly what many here would consider training. Don't get me wrong, the kids loved it and had a great time before one lunatic "coach" ruined the program in the area. In fact, most NRA training that I am familiar with is not what the gun gurus here would consider training - I took the NRA Hunter Safety class at age 10, and still remember some of it today. Even my government provided yearly training would be laughed at by many of the truly dedicated here. If you want familiarization and safety, yes, 4H, JROTC, (our rifle team was air rifles, and ONCE we got to shoot M16A1, (yes, A1s!) on the range in FT Huachuca, all other rifles were demilitarized 1903A3s, and this was in the mid 80s), NRA hunter safety, absolutely highly recommended. We had M14 rifles that'd been rendered inoperable and we used them for drill practice. Later (after I had graduated) the USMC took them all back. Our marksmanship team competed with Daisy model 753, and later 888 air rifles. Looks like the CMP still supports high school marksmanship activities with air rifle purchase options: https://thecmp.org/sales-and-service/sporter-air-rifles/ We got to fire M16A2 rifles at a USMC indoor range on a summer field trip, but only at 25 meters, and they weren't zero'd (merely set to "mechanical zero") so it was kinda meh, but I really enjoyed rappelling off their big tower. They also put us through their gas chamber with real CS and M40 masks. It was quite an experience! lol I really appreciate volunteers like yourself coaching our students. I had a mentor in high school who had competed in .22 smallbore 3-position rifle shooting in college and he really helped me out, giving me all the fundamentals and knowledge I'd need to become a LE firearms instructor later in life. |

