Posted: 8/27/2025 9:47:57 AM EDT
| So it's time to admit I'm just not that great with handguns and I have been trying everything to speed up and get back on target following up shots. My current issue is that I find myself having to pull my sights back up to target rather than down. My stance is one foot slightly forward as well as trying to lean my upper torso forward slightly. Death grip with upper arms/ triceps's twisted slightly counter clockwise. It doesn't matter what platform I shoot Glock or M&P in 9mm the same always happens with me ending up under bullseye. I have found that 45acp tends to hop up and fall down much better for me. Does any of that make sense? I'm at a loss here! Thanks |
| Thanks for the response, no I have never "tuned" any of my firearms outside of 1911s, which I currently don't own. I just traded for a S&W carry comp but have not shot it yet, I don't expect much difference with it though. I have considered going to a smaller lighter weight weapon light but I know its me. |
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Sounds like you're anticipating recoil and putting downward pressure on the gun to mitigate it Close your eyes and put a snap cap into your magazine then see what happens when you try to fire it. |
America is at that awkward stage, it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards....Claire Wolfe
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A "Death grip" isn't the answer. Modulate your grip forces with each hand separately, experimenting with front to back and side to side pressures. The intention of trying to prevent recoil easily leads to what is termed "Pre-ignition push", trying to hold the gun down by applying downward force at the moment the trigger is pulled. You can differentiate this from a Flinch by doing a Ball and Dummy drill and observing the sight behavior. If the front sight dips below the sight line it's usually anticipation or flinching. If the sights stay aligned, but the gun moves down it indicates pre-ignition push. |
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Originally Posted By 50-140: Sounds like you're anticipating recoil and putting downward pressure on the gun to mitigate it Close your eyes and put a snap cap into your magazine then see what happens when you try to fire it. I will give that a try been a long time since I've done the snap cap thing. Thanks |
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Originally Posted By feudist: A "Death grip" isn't the answer. Modulate your grip forces with each hand separately, experimenting with front to back and side to side pressures. The intention of trying to prevent recoil easily leads to what is termed "Pre-ignition push", trying to hold the gun down by applying downward force at the moment the trigger is pulled. You can differentiate this from a Flinch by doing a Ball and Dummy drill and observing the sight behavior. If the front sight dips below the sight line it's usually anticipation or flinching. If the sights stay aligned, but the gun moves down it indicates pre-ignition push. It sounds like what you are calling pre ignition push the groups are reasonable and I'm not really having strays. The sights are aligned I'm just having to raise the gun up to get back on target. I guess I will go back to the drawing board with my grip maybe even my arms are locked too much? Thanks |
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Originally Posted By feudist: A "Death grip" isn't the answer. Modulate your grip forces with each hand separately, experimenting with front to back and side to side pressures. The intention of trying to prevent recoil easily leads to what is termed "Pre-ignition push", trying to hold the gun down by applying downward force at the moment the trigger is pulled. You can differentiate this from a Flinch by doing a Ball and Dummy drill and observing the sight behavior. If the front sight dips below the sight line it's usually anticipation or flinching. If the sights stay aligned, but the gun moves down it indicates pre-ignition push. Something like this. dont over think your grip and just be consistant. Are all your shots lower are you throwing shots here and there |
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Originally Posted By ShaggyNuckles: Something like this. dont over think your grip and just be consistant. Are all your shots lower are you throwing shots here and there Originally Posted By ShaggyNuckles: Originally Posted By feudist: A "Death grip" isn't the answer. Modulate your grip forces with each hand separately, experimenting with front to back and side to side pressures. The intention of trying to prevent recoil easily leads to what is termed "Pre-ignition push", trying to hold the gun down by applying downward force at the moment the trigger is pulled. You can differentiate this from a Flinch by doing a Ball and Dummy drill and observing the sight behavior. If the front sight dips below the sight line it's usually anticipation or flinching. If the sights stay aligned, but the gun moves down it indicates pre-ignition push. Something like this. dont over think your grip and just be consistant. Are all your shots lower are you throwing shots here and there No, my bullets are going where I want them to consistently, not butthole sized groups but within a 3inch diameter at 10yards or so. It's something happening after the trigger squeeze or something I'm doing with my grip and or body (not flinching) that's causing the gun to rest or end up below target every time. |
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Originally Posted By feudist: A "Death grip" isn't the answer. Modulate your grip forces with each hand separately, experimenting with front to back and side to side pressures. The intention of trying to prevent recoil easily leads to what is termed "Pre-ignition push", trying to hold the gun down by applying downward force at the moment the trigger is pulled. You can differentiate this from a Flinch by doing a Ball and Dummy drill and observing the sight behavior. If the front sight dips below the sight line it's usually anticipation or flinching. If the sights stay aligned, but the gun moves down it indicates pre-ignition push. This right here. He knows of what he speaks. No need to "tune" the gun or be changing springs, that is not the answer. It's consistency & repeatability of grip. Proper grip will have the gin "bouncing" back on target, as it were. Indeed, "Ball & Dummy Drill" will reveal issues as well. |
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You are most likely looking at the target to see your bullet impacts. Believe it or not, immediately upon pressing the trigger you are depressing the muzzle in order to see your bullet impacts BEFORE the bullet from the cartridge you just fired has exited the muzzle. Maintain focus on the front sight. You should only switch focus to target assessment if / when you stop shooting or if the target has fallen or moved off of your axis of attack and is no longer in your previous line-of-sight. |
Best Regards,
TonyF
Training Forum Moderator
"No such thing as tough. There's trained and untrained. Which one are you?" (Denzel Washington -- Man on Fire)
TonyF
Training Forum Moderator
"No such thing as tough. There's trained and untrained. Which one are you?" (Denzel Washington -- Man on Fire)
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Originally Posted By TonyF: You are most likely looking at the target to see your bullet impacts. Believe it or not, immediately upon pressing the trigger you are depressing the muzzle in order to see your bullet impacts BEFORE the bullet from the cartridge you just fired has exited the muzzle. Maintain focus on the front sight. You should only switch focus to target assessment if / when you stop shooting or if the target has fallen or moved off of your axis of attack and is no longer in your previous line-of-sight. Something I will have to consider since I am target focused the entire time. Honestly I don't even see the front sight I see through it. |
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Originally Posted By isaidme: Something I will have to consider since I am target focused the entire time. Honestly I don't even see the front sight I see through it. Originally Posted By isaidme: Originally Posted By TonyF: You are most likely looking at the target to see your bullet impacts. Believe it or not, immediately upon pressing the trigger you are depressing the muzzle in order to see your bullet impacts BEFORE the bullet from the cartridge you just fired has exited the muzzle. Maintain focus on the front sight. You should only switch focus to target assessment if / when you stop shooting or if the target has fallen or moved off of your axis of attack and is no longer in your previous line-of-sight. Something I will have to consider since I am target focused the entire time. Honestly I don't even see the front sight I see through it. To differentiate it from P.I.P., which is a subconscious attempt at recoil control, try slow group shooting from as solid a benchrest as you can get at a target with a highly defined horizontal aiming reference point. Be patient with yourself as rested group shooting is a different skill from freestyle and the results might be considerably different. One of the absolute best things about a dot is that it YELLS your mistakes at you, especially in slow fire. Especially versus typically coarse combat style sights the dot just gives enormously more feedback. They are the best "dry fire" device there is, if nothing else. |