Posted: 9/14/2025 9:48:09 AM EDT
 Why Special Forces outsourced training to premier shooting facilities and Professional Shooters. |
| It wasn't just the SF. The Seabees/NCF actually recognized how poor our training was (albeit a bit late into the GWOT). Right before I retired I was a Range Coach at the Navy's Woolmarket Range in Biloxi. I got to work for a few months with Dave Harrington, Paul Harrell and several other civilian trainers. |
USN Retired: APR 1988 - MAY 2008
"My center is giving way, my right is falling back, situation excellent, I attack." —Ferdinand Foch
"My center is giving way, my right is falling back, situation excellent, I attack." —Ferdinand Foch
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Originally Posted By 18B30: OPTEMPO! we stripped the SFAUC committee and sent them to back black side. Need we say more! Problem with SFAUC, the original mandate: Get teams proficient in single breach point CQB. Over the years it morphed into full mission profile training. Mission planning, vehicle movements etc. So, less CQB. Full mission profile should be responsibility of team not responsibility of SAUC. |
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Thanks Jeff! Great video! I've heard Navy SEALs say similar things. If you really want the best training (in most any given area) you need to bring in outside experts. In his book "Concrete Jungle" Clay Martin credits Len Baxley (TDSA) as providing outstanding training "I can say that most of my skill with a pistol he gave me." |
per aspera ad astra
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Originally Posted By R_S: Thanks Jeff! Great video! I've heard Navy SEALs say similar things. If you really want the best training (in most any given area) you need to bring in outside experts. In his book "Concrete Jungle" Clay Martin credits Len Baxley (TDSA) as providing outstanding training "I can say that most of my skill with a pistol he gave me." Yep, I know Clay and I spoke with Len a few days before the video to let him know I was going to mention him. |
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People think that shooting is a tactical skill. It really isn't, it's a mechanical skill. Tactics are tactics, shooting is just a subcomponent. Few people understand how poor military marksmanship is, even in SOF communities. SOF and combat arms are usually miles ahead of support folks (who get almost no weapons training) and miles behind folks who are serious about firearms training. So yes, of course this was outsourced. Same reason they bring in experts for PT, nutrition, and all sorts of other subcomponents of tactics. |
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Originally Posted By Middlelength: People think that shooting is a tactical skill. It really isn't, it's a mechanical skill. Tactics are tactics, shooting is just a subcomponent. Few people understand how poor military marksmanship is, even in SOF communities. SOF and combat arms are usually miles ahead of support folks (who get almost no weapons training) and miles behind folks who are serious about firearms training. So yes, of course this was outsourced. Same reason they bring in experts for PT, nutrition, and all sorts of other subcomponents of tactics. The trouble with all things military is that the real life fights are by definition not repeatable and the controlled environments that enable repeatable training are unrealistic. Therefore, it's really hard to figure out what works in real life. Additionally, as physically gifted the SF guys are, their missions are seldom relevant to the civilian situations which makes the transfer of the skills too nuanced. Just because a badass SF soldier did things in a certain way while being surrounded by bad guys doesn't mean it's a good idea for a civilian where a miss could hit a school bus full of child piano prodigies. |
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Met and trained with a gentleman who served some time in a Special Missions Unit for the Army. He's specifically stated that they would bring in top competitive shooters on the civilian side to have training sessions with team. Training is always evolving so it makes sense to branch out and assess what champions in competitive areas are doing. Be it shooting, combat sports like mma, endurance athletes, yada yada yada |
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Hallsville Missouri... Former World Champion Ray Chapman frequently trained High Speed Low Drag types on the M-9. He had a wall covered with empty ammo cans Fedexed by MIL classes prior to "student" arrivals. He won the first IPSC Handgun World Shoot in 1975 and took silver behind Jan Foss from Norway in the second World Shoot in 1976. I had the opportunity to train with Ray a few times. Ray Chapman, one of the fathers of modern pistolcraft passed away Saturday, February 2, 2008. I miss Ray. "Will Rogers never met Ray Chapman"! IYKYK (Please post if you know) |
So... I find comfort in the fact that if Trump has to work so hard to go to Heaven, then there is a shit load of Democrats that have no f-cking chance to go anywhere but HELL. Sometimes it is entirely appropriate to kill a fly with a sledge-hammer.