Posted: 8/25/2026 11:56:49 AM EDT
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One of the better summaries of this issue/data I've seen: 21 Feet? More like 32. In the third study, the authors had 57 officers draw and fire at suspect that was charging at them with a shock knife. The shock knife is a training tool that is shaped like a knife, but when a button is pressed, electricity arcs around the knife. This sounds like a taser in drive stun mode when activated. The video below shows what one of these runs looked like. Officers were told they were responding to a disturbance at a bar. When the scenario started, the encountered an assistant playing the role of the suspect. The officer started talking to the suspect and after a few minutes the suspect would pull his shock knife and charge the officer. The officer would then draw and fire at the suspect. In this study, 7 (12%) officers completely failed to draw and fire. They were not able to successfully negotiate the retention mechanisms on their holsters and even begin to draw before the suspect was on them. For the officers that drew and fired, the average reaction time was 1.43 seconds. This time was statistically significantly faster than was found in the second study. Additionally, only 76% of the officers successfully shot the suspect. The authors carefully compared the draw in this study with the run times in the first and arrived at the conclusion that if you wanted 95% of the officers to be able to fire before a random suspect reached them, the officer and the suspect would have to be about 32 feet apart! In the fourth study, the authors examined the impact of movement on the ability of a suspect to stab an officer. The suspects were able to successfully stab the officer before he drew and fired 33% of the time when the officer stood still, 26% of the time when the officer moved at a 45-degree angle toward the suspect, 8% of the time when the officer back peddled, and 5% of the time when the officer sidestepped. These differences were statistically significant and suggested the movement had a moderate effect on the ability of the suspect to stab the officer. Some great points here. Standing still means that from open carry you would likely need more than 21 feet. From concealed potentially even more as 2 seconds is average for a clean concealed draw and there are more opportunities to mess up a draw from concealment. The movement study was helpful, but I sidestepping or backpedaling are not ideal or natural movement patterns. Walking feet facing the direction of movement is ideal. You can move a lot faster that way and more safely as well. That can be to the 3 O'clock, 5 O'clock, 7 O'clock, or 9 O'clock. In my experience proper natural movement combined with point shooting turns the 21-to-32 foot rule into a 9-to-10 foot rule... from concealment. |
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We just had a thread where the GD Speshul Operators declared the 21’ Rule to be trash as anyone should be able to stop a knife wielding attacker at that range. I (sarcastically) concurred: the rule is trash…it’s more like 31’. Go figure. Then again, apparently they were right all along about blading at 45°. |
I wanted a mission, and for my sins, they gave me one.
No rules today, sport…just orders.
It’s not about how many people you kill, it’s about how many you save.
No rules today, sport…just orders.
It’s not about how many people you kill, it’s about how many you save.
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Originally Posted By KILLERB6: We just had a thread where the GD Speshul Operators declared the 21’ Rule to be trash as anyone should be able to stop a knife wielding attacker at that range. I (sarcastically) concurred: the rule is trash…it’s more like 31’. Go figure. Then again, apparently they were right all along about blading at 45°. The NRA has a Personal Protection Inside the Home class where a student presents their firearm from the ready and fires 2 shots at a tombstone target at 21 feet... while a simulated aggressor holding a weighted flag starts at their position and on the go signal runs as fast as they can the other way, dropping the flag when they hear the first shot and stopping as soon as they can after the second shot. The drill is artificial, but always a wakeup call to students. As a student playing the simulated aggressor I cleared over 30 feet before I stopped. Momentum carried me several feet after the last shot was fired. In Force On Force I like to run an airsoft Tueller drill. Aggressor starts out at 21 feet and defender has to draw and fire when the aggressor advances with a training blade. That is much more realistic. It is easier for the defender to hit, because the actual shooting distance is smaller by the time the weapon is in play, but more UNNERVING because an actual person is charging you. Many people don't perform well under that kind of stress. Its way better to have extra distance than not enough. |
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Tueller drill even has its own wiki page. I've always viewed 21 feet as a somewhat arbitrary distance, there is some science behind it to offer it up as a starting point for a reasonable justification for lethal force. It's a good distance to start off people shooting. 7 Yards is about my optimal distance for a no sight picture double tap. I've done the run away from the firing line drill while a training buddy is drawing, I've done airsoft and training knife. I even had a 21" track with a popup that came towards. On thing another response hit on was how easier it is to get the hits. The real failure of all of these drills is that the shooter knows it's coming. But all training has this problem, that's why we train a lot and use a variety of techniques. On thing I believe in, religiously is the side step. Whenever possible my draw and shoot involves a turn or a side step. I would not consider a walk towards the target outside of some special circumstance (eg stepping in front of your wife/kids) I don't believe back peddling is a very good (except at contact distance) because it is more risky in the real world. This is OLD |
Every citizen should be a soldier. This was the case of the Greeks and Romans and must be that of every free state. -T Jefferson
https://everycitizenasoldier.blogspot.com/
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21 feet includes evaluating the threat before acting. In today overly litigious world that takes a hell of a lot longer. Notice the threat Observe enough to recognize the threat Evaluate it against what you know is coming if you do fire Consider if life would be easier if you did just take the blade to your belly etc. Life is easy for criminals, harder for the law abiding. |
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The issue is, the rule says you should engage at no less than 21’. A prosecutor is going to say a knife wielding attacker at 21’ is still not a threat. Case in point: a recent “true crime” show had a man engaged in a physical altercation with an opponent. Opponent pulls knife, man retreats, pulls gun and when backed into a corner fires one round into the attacker’s leg. |
I wanted a mission, and for my sins, they gave me one.
No rules today, sport…just orders.
It’s not about how many people you kill, it’s about how many you save.
No rules today, sport…just orders.
It’s not about how many people you kill, it’s about how many you save.
The techniques for dealing with this stuff have been around for a while.  Suarez International - Force on Force 2016 I was able to reproduce everything from the book Force On Force The key is having room to maneuver and actually getting out a practicing this stuff against a live opponent. The biggest issue with the knife attack is this: This Is an 8-Foot Knife Attack. You Have One Second. Go! Officers might have less than 1.1 seconds to recognize and respond to a concealed knife attack from 8 feet. That’s less than the time needed for an officer to draw and shoot the suspect. Reaction time is about 0.15 to start moving. These findings support a shift in tactical thinking beyond the traditional 21-foot rule. Officers need reps against realistic, close-in, spontaneous attacks, because that’s what they will have to deal with in the field. |
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