On the fence between 308 and 6.5 (Page 2 of 2)
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Originally Posted By wvfarrier: If you handload, 308 can outperform 6.5 needmoor. I am currently running both the 178 ELD at 2850fps and the 195 TMK 2785fps. Both of those are supersonic to just under 1300 yards and EXTREMELY accurate. Thats using alpha srp brass, cci 450s and varget. The current brass has 15 firings on it and is still going strong. I had the 150 grain TTSX at 3056fps last week and they grouped .27" at 150 yards. If you want "out of the box" long range performance, then go with 6.5 but if you want to experiment.....go 308. Would that be the same for hand loading 6.5 creed? |
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Originally Posted By 3one5: Would that be the same for hand loading 6.5 creed? Originally Posted By 3one5: Originally Posted By wvfarrier: If you handload, 308 can outperform 6.5 needmoor. I am currently running both the 178 ELD at 2850fps and the 195 TMK 2785fps. Both of those are supersonic to just under 1300 yards and EXTREMELY accurate. Thats using alpha srp brass, cci 450s and varget. The current brass has 15 firings on it and is still going strong. I had the 150 grain TTSX at 3056fps last week and they grouped .27" at 150 yards. If you want "out of the box" long range performance, then go with 6.5 but if you want to experiment.....go 308. Would that be the same for hand loading 6.5 creed? Yes of course 6.5 Creedmoor benefits from handloads. The .308 benefits more for the reasons listed above. I shoot Berger 200.20x gn G1 .640, and the Hornady 208 gn ELDM G1 .690, out of my LMT AR10. They shoot great. The biggest advantage .308 has, is the bore size, you gain more velocity out of larger rounds because the bore evacuates the gas more quickly. When 6.5 Creedmoor came out everyone was comparing the 168 gn .308 SMK bullet G1 468 to the Hornady 140gn .264 eldm G1 .640. This was apples to oranges. Now compare the two rounds with equal barrel lengths and equal G1 bullets. |
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Originally Posted By Primitive: Yes of course 6.5 Creedmoor benefits from handloads. The .308 benefits more for the reasons listed above. I shoot Berger 200.20x gn G1 .640, and the Hornady 208 gn ELDM G1 .690, out of my LMT AR10. They shoot great. The biggest advantage .308 has, is the bore size, you gain more velocity out of larger rounds because the bore evacuates the gas more quickly. When 6.5 Creedmoor came out everyone was comparing the 168 gn .308 SMK bullet G1 468 to the Hornady 140gn .264 eldm G1 .640. This was apples to oranges. Now compare the two rounds with equal barrel lengths and equal G1 bullets. Originally Posted By Primitive: Originally Posted By 3one5: Originally Posted By wvfarrier: If you handload, 308 can outperform 6.5 needmoor. I am currently running both the 178 ELD at 2850fps and the 195 TMK 2785fps. Both of those are supersonic to just under 1300 yards and EXTREMELY accurate. Thats using alpha srp brass, cci 450s and varget. The current brass has 15 firings on it and is still going strong. I had the 150 grain TTSX at 3056fps last week and they grouped .27" at 150 yards. If you want "out of the box" long range performance, then go with 6.5 but if you want to experiment.....go 308. Would that be the same for hand loading 6.5 creed? Yes of course 6.5 Creedmoor benefits from handloads. The .308 benefits more for the reasons listed above. I shoot Berger 200.20x gn G1 .640, and the Hornady 208 gn ELDM G1 .690, out of my LMT AR10. They shoot great. The biggest advantage .308 has, is the bore size, you gain more velocity out of larger rounds because the bore evacuates the gas more quickly. When 6.5 Creedmoor came out everyone was comparing the 168 gn .308 SMK bullet G1 468 to the Hornady 140gn .264 eldm G1 .640. This was apples to oranges. Now compare the two rounds with equal barrel lengths and equal G1 bullets. Equal G1 bullets? Why? The best advantage of 6.5CM is better BC bullets. Hand loading isn’t an advantage for one more than the other… Other than shooting cheap (lol, ok relatively) milsurp, there’s no advantage for .308 over 6.5CM. |
Not fly enough to be halal....
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Originally Posted By Primitive: Yes of course 6.5 Creedmoor benefits from handloads. The .308 benefits more for the reasons listed above. I shoot Berger 200.20x gn G1 .640, and the Hornady 208 gn ELDM G1 .690, out of my LMT AR10. They shoot great. The biggest advantage .308 has, is the bore size, you gain more velocity out of larger rounds because the bore evacuates the gas more quickly. When 6.5 Creedmoor came out everyone was comparing the 168 gn .308 SMK bullet G1 468 to the Hornady 140gn .264 eldm G1 .640. This was apples to oranges. Now compare the two rounds with equal barrel lengths and equal G1 bullets. Hornady shows the 208 and 140 ELDs as having .348 and .326 G7. About equal with 100fps difference. |
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Until you run out of ammo. OP isn't a heavy reloader. As to what choice, I miss the 1990's too, but today - 6.5CM hands down. Everyone who spends any time at all doing what you are doing, is not shooting .308 anymore. If you were to start with a blank white piece of paper and say what round should I do for what OP does, and no rounds existed - nobody but nobody, would end up designing a round for that, was a reinvented .308. 6.5 CM is as readily available for what you want to do, if not moreso. The cheapest factory ammo in 6.5CM will do everything you are trying to do, and do it well; for the same price and availability pragmatically as .308. .260/6mmDasher/6.8Fury/7-08 etc are all great rounds, that are exotics that you're going to need to manage your own reloading supply chain for, or prepare to spend a lot of money when you occasionally find it. For what you are doing? Just no. Here's what everyone else who has been asked this question has answered it today in the 2020's. Nobody anywhere is shooting .260, the PITA of that exotic for such little "improvement" is not worth it. It's also not exactly a great host for the 140+ gr bullets for which long range is the point, for which 6.5CM was made. People can make it work, but the neck is too far forward to ideally host the longer long-range bullets. Just do 6.5CM, which is specifically made for what you want to do. The best description on-line I've seen written was "If someone gave me a .260 rounds, and told me to improve that design to host a heavier 140 gr bullet for distance shooting and improved performance and accuracy, I'd end up with a 6.5 Creedmoor" https://i.postimg.cc/nr3FZXbL/2024-Dec-800-yard-gong-range-bucket-brass-Labeled.jpg The main reason most people talk shit about 6.5CM today is because it's been insufferably oversold and overpromoted. The reason it's been insufferably oversold and overpromoted, is because it really is the better round, and the standard selection today, because it's that much better. As to BBL life, it's not a 1000 rounds and out BBL. It'll start to decline after 3000 rounds or so. OK, so what, that's not that bad. 6.5CM gas gun barrels and cheap are easy to install. Sticking with .308 today is like sticking with 30-06. Great classic round, but no - it's not the right round any more for what you want to do. Originally Posted By lazyengineer: Originally Posted By UncleDano: Forget about the 6.5 Creedmoor, and go with the 260 Rem. You will be glad you did. Until you run out of ammo. OP isn't a heavy reloader. As to what choice, I miss the 1990's too, but today - 6.5CM hands down. Everyone who spends any time at all doing what you are doing, is not shooting .308 anymore. If you were to start with a blank white piece of paper and say what round should I do for what OP does, and no rounds existed - nobody but nobody, would end up designing a round for that, was a reinvented .308. 6.5 CM is as readily available for what you want to do, if not moreso. The cheapest factory ammo in 6.5CM will do everything you are trying to do, and do it well; for the same price and availability pragmatically as .308. .260/6mmDasher/6.8Fury/7-08 etc are all great rounds, that are exotics that you're going to need to manage your own reloading supply chain for, or prepare to spend a lot of money when you occasionally find it. For what you are doing? Just no. Here's what everyone else who has been asked this question has answered it today in the 2020's. Nobody anywhere is shooting .260, the PITA of that exotic for such little "improvement" is not worth it. It's also not exactly a great host for the 140+ gr bullets for which long range is the point, for which 6.5CM was made. People can make it work, but the neck is too far forward to ideally host the longer long-range bullets. Just do 6.5CM, which is specifically made for what you want to do. The best description on-line I've seen written was "If someone gave me a .260 rounds, and told me to improve that design to host a heavier 140 gr bullet for distance shooting and improved performance and accuracy, I'd end up with a 6.5 Creedmoor" https://i.postimg.cc/nr3FZXbL/2024-Dec-800-yard-gong-range-bucket-brass-Labeled.jpg The main reason most people talk shit about 6.5CM today is because it's been insufferably oversold and overpromoted. The reason it's been insufferably oversold and overpromoted, is because it really is the better round, and the standard selection today, because it's that much better. As to BBL life, it's not a 1000 rounds and out BBL. It'll start to decline after 3000 rounds or so. OK, so what, that's not that bad. 6.5CM gas gun barrels and cheap are easy to install. Sticking with .308 today is like sticking with 30-06. Great classic round, but no - it's not the right round any more for what you want to do.  Attached FileLeave the .30-06 out of this 
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