On the fence between 308 and 6.5 (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 9/6/2025 8:10:48 PM EDT
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I've been regularly shooting gas gun matches out to around 700 with the occasional stage at 1050 with a 5.56 SPR. Since AAC 77 turned dog water, the next closest round is either shell shock 77 hand loads (a friend loads these with me) for around 85 cpr, or IMI for almost a dollar a round. These factors are pushing me toward a large frame gasser where I can shoot factory ammo for around the same price with less wind deflection. 308 pros, Better barrel life so I'm more willing to practice with it / shoot the occasional 2 gun match without worrying about round count or firing schedule I have a 308 bolt gun so common caliber Cheaper ammo for training at shorter ranges 6.5 is obviously better beyond 600 Most of my matches are inside 7. We recently shot a team sniper match and actually placed pretty well. I shot this match with a 20" 308 and all the points we left on the table were due to non-shooting related things we can train. At this point it seems like 6.5 would be the optimized but less generally useful choice. Will probably be looking for a seekins sp10 or GAP10 in either caliber. Thoughts? |
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Every comment you have listed is flat out correct. ( So i feel your pain as to which to get ) I have both , a 308 and a 6.5CM , that said, I have ended up firing the 6.5CM far more then the 308. The accuracy is far "easier" in the 6.5CM. The 6.5CM is much better against the cross winds for my distance shooting. But, If I had to grab either ( SHTF )... I would grab the 308. Sorry I can't offer better advice... but if you can swing it, get one in your caliber choice, and then another upper in the other caliber. |
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great video showing the difference. But plain and simple 6.5 killed .308 on every level.  6.5 CREEDMOOR VS 308 WINCHESTER- WE SHOOT HAMS! |
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IMO comparing the distant capabilities (beyond 600/700) of the .308 against the 6.5C when used in a gas gun is a wash... people have posted on here in the past about not being able to get max 6.5C velocities from a gas gun w/o ruining brass and that's what I experienced thus I abandoned the 6.5C in the AR10 platform. Now... I'm just a sample of one and that was perhaps ten plus years ago. But like I said, others have posted similar results. I AM NOT MAKING A BLANKET STATEMENT THAT .308 IS BETTER THAN 6.5C, just that for your intended uses, there is no distinct advantage but that's just my opinion. You posted some reasonable reasons FOR the .308 and personally that's what I'd used based on the info you posted: 700 yards and in, affordable, and commonality among your rifles. You can't go wrong with either, but I'd go .308 because I'm boring lol. |
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Originally Posted By fast_fairlane: M118LR really evens the playing field out to 1000 Winchester brass, 44gr varget and 175 SMK Out to 7-800yds if you are experienced at that distance and know how to make wind calls, it doesn't matter too much from what I have seen. If you don't know how to make wind calls it wont matter between the 2 either. If shooting steel, you will absolutely know the difference between a 175 and a 140 at impact. Not really a wrong answer, I already have a good supply 308 brass and bullets I'm keeping my 308.  |
I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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I guess another consideration is that NAS3 cases are now available for 308. I was talking to a marathon targets employee at the sniper match who mentioned they were pushing 215 gr Bergers at some crazy winmag-territory velocities. For the occasional sniper match, that wouldn't be a bad choice as long as it isn't getting a steady diet of them. |
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I met if you do an eyeball count at the range, any day of the week, you will find that 6.5 cm has the largest number of shooters....in bolt guns anyways. I'm sure 556 is most common with everyone shooting ARs. Get a 6.5 and don't worry about it. If you are already shooting an AR then you might consider Grendel or a ARC. |
You're going to need to call Bill and give him a couple bucks  https://www.ar15.com/forums/industry/THE-WAIT-IS-OVER-the-Geissele-MRGG-in-6-5-Creedmoor-/444-306976/  ETA: For the type of shooting you're doing, 6.5cm for sure, or if you want small frame then 6mm ARC |
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If you get the Seekins SP10, get it in 6.5CM and an extra .308 barrel. You may have to head spcae it, but it should be an easy swap. My guess is though, you'll enjoy shooting the 6.5CM way more, with less holds with a flatter round. You also get to make smaller wind adjustments, and will be more accurate due to at range velocities. Not to mention, aging shoulders prefer 6.5CM. |
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As much of a .308/7.62N nut I am, 6.5CM does everything better for my use. For hunting, .308 has way more options, but 6.5 has enough good options that I consider that category a wash. For precision, 6.5 starts pulling ahead past 4-500, and group dispersion is markedly better past that. I'm spending about the same on ammo, so I may as well go with something that gets me a better probability of a hit. I don't think .308 recoil is harsh, even out of a bolt action, but the slightly lower recoil of 6.5 makes spotting hits easier. I was going to get a .308 barrel for my XCR-M, but I'd rather just get another for 6.5 and stock up on more ammo. |
"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
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Originally Posted By UncleDano: Forget about the 6.5 Creedmoor, and go with the 260 Rem. You will be glad you did. Concur. If I had to choose, I'd do the .260 Rem as well. |
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A joke?, no joke. If you have used both the 6.5 Creed and the 260, you know the differences. The 6.5 Creed in a gas gun is a real pain in the ass to tune properly. And as soon as you get it tuned and running good for one bullet, you can start over again when you choose a different weight bullet. It is a much higher pressure cartridge than the 260 Rem, and is known to have problems with blown and pierced primers. A high pressure bolt with a reduced diameter firing pin is a must. I can get about 40 to 50 FPS faster out of the 260 over the 6.5 Creed. Seems like the 260 has more powders to choose from that will produce accurate tiny groups. 260 Brass is cheep and plentiful for reloaders. Factory ammo is sometimes hard to find and expensive. You don't see many off the shelf factory guns in the 260 cal. I shoot them both, but it seems like the 260's have been more trouble-free and more accurate with a wider range of powders. |
| Ah, I forgot we were talking gas guns. I don't have experience running either in a semi and didn't realize there was difficulty tuning the creedmoor. I feel the .260 has a dedicated following but I figured it had been supplanted by the 6.5 creed; that's why I thought posts recommending it were joking. |
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I had this dilemma a while back. I went 308 because I have other 308 rifles, so I can use the same ammo in all of them. If I didn't already have a bunch of 308s, I would have gone 6.5 |
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Win if you can, lose if you must, but always look good for the crowd.
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Originally Posted By UncleDano: Forget about the 6.5 Creedmoor, and go with the 260 Rem. You will be glad you did. Until you run out of ammo. OP isn't a heavy reloader. As to what choice, I miss the 1990's too, but today - 6.5CM hands down. Everyone who spends any time at all doing what you are doing, is not shooting .308 anymore. If you were to start with a blank white piece of paper and say what round should I do for what OP does, and no rounds existed - nobody but nobody, would end up designing a round for that, was a reinvented .308. 6.5 CM is as readily available for what you want to do, if not moreso. The cheapest factory ammo in 6.5CM will do everything you are trying to do, and do it well; for the same price and availability pragmatically as .308. .260/6mmDasher/6.8Fury/7-08 etc are all great rounds, that are exotics that you're going to need to manage your own reloading supply chain for, or prepare to spend a lot of money when you occasionally find it. For what you are doing? Just no. Here's what everyone else who has been asked this question has answered it today in the 2020's. Nobody anywhere is shooting .260, the PITA of that exotic for such little "improvement" is not worth it. It's also not exactly a great host for the 140+ gr bullets for which long range is the point, for which 6.5CM was made. People can make it work, but the neck is too far forward to ideally host the longer long-range bullets. Just do 6.5CM, which is specifically made for what you want to do. The best description on-line I've seen written was "If someone gave me a .260 rounds, and told me to improve that design to host a heavier 140 gr bullet for distance shooting and improved performance and accuracy, I'd end up with a 6.5 Creedmoor"  The main reason most people talk shit about 6.5CM today is because it's been insufferably oversold and overpromoted. The reason it's been insufferably oversold and overpromoted, is because it really is the better round, and the standard selection today, because it's that much better. As to BBL life, it's not a 1000 rounds and out BBL. It'll start to decline after 3000 rounds or so. OK, so what, that's not that bad. 6.5CM gas gun barrels and cheap are easy to install. Sticking with .308 today is like sticking with 30-06. Great classic round, but no - it's not the right round any more for what you want to do. |
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6.5CM hard to tune? I've never had a problem, nor have I heard of any from the folks I shoot with. .260's great if you're going to reload. Remington dropped the ball bigly on it and factory ammo offerings are nowhere near what the Creedmoor offers. As to the 40-50 fps difference? Not worth it for 98% of folks. Both are easy cartridges to load for. |
"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
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I shoot the creedmoor in our local club level competitions. It does very well in the difficult winds at this location. Choosing a gun because you have dies, ammo or another one doesn’t make sense to me. I choose a gun/caliber combination that best suits the need. In this case that would be the Creedmoor. I’m not willing to give up points on long targets just because I can save money. Last weekend I made a second round hit at 1,600 that I doubt I would have made with my old 308 in those conditions |
| If you handload, 308 can outperform 6.5 needmoor. I am currently running both the 178 ELD at 2850fps and the 195 TMK 2785fps. Both of those are supersonic to just under 1300 yards and EXTREMELY accurate. Thats using alpha srp brass, cci 450s and varget. The current brass has 15 firings on it and is still going strong. I had the 150 grain TTSX at 3056fps last week and they grouped .27" at 150 yards. If you want "out of the box" long range performance, then go with 6.5 but if you want to experiment.....go 308. |
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Originally Posted By wvfarrier: If you handload, 308 can outperform 6.5 needmoor. I am currently running both the 178 ELD at 2850fps and the 195 TMK 2785fps. Both of those are supersonic to just under 1300 yards and EXTREMELY accurate. Thats using alpha srp brass, cci 450s and varget. The current brass has 15 firings on it and is still going strong. I had the 150 grain TTSX at 3056fps last week and they grouped .27" at 150 yards. If you want "out of the box" long range performance, then go with 6.5 but if you want to experiment.....go 308. no, it can't. Stop deluding yourself that 45-70 is the better precision distance round. shoot it anyway if you want, but you're just hamstringing yourself to.prove a point nobody but PALMA Fudds care about. |
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Originally Posted By lazyengineer: no, it can't. Stop deluding yourself that 45-70 is the better precision distance round. shoot it anyway if you want, but you're just hamstringing yourself to.prove a point nobody but PALMA Fudds care about. PALMA Fudds.. Ok that one I have to look up. |
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Originally Posted By Odinforever2000: PALMA Fudds.. Ok that one I have to look up. obscure derivative of High Power. 1000 yards .308 155 gr iron sight (concentric ring). gets expensive with useless custom rifles sending. 308 bullets out 30+" bolt action 1 shot rifles with $500 iron sights. All useless for anything else. Show up with a factory 6.5 CM and factory ammo and a PSA scope, and you'll do well. |
| I choose 308. While 6.5 is ballistically better, its not ENOUGH better to supplant the 308 IMHO. I even sought out a garand in 308. M118LR shoots great in most of my guns, although I do have a couple that are happier with 155's. |
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Originally Posted By wvfarrier: If you handload, 308 can outperform 6.5 needmoor. I am currently running both the 178 ELD at 2850fps and the 195 TMK 2785fps. Both of those are supersonic to just under 1300 yards and EXTREMELY accurate. Thats using alpha srp brass, cci 450s and varget. The current brass has 15 firings on it and is still going strong. I had the 150 grain TTSX at 3056fps last week and they grouped .27" at 150 yards. If you want "out of the box" long range performance, then go with 6.5 but if you want to experiment.....go 308. Barrel length? You understand this is the semi-auto thread, right? Post your load data, because your velocities are 300 fps faster than what I can safely get from a 22" barrel. Most large frame AR's have 20" or even shorter barrels. Your posted velocities would blow most rifles up. |
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I think both are more than adequate for 1000 yards shooting, but with some caveats. The 308 is capable to 1000 pretty easily, but to really take advantage of it, you do need to handload. Berger 185 Jugg and Varget is a very capable combo. However, most factory ammo tops out at a 175 SMK, which does struggle at a 1000 yards and staying supersonic. Factory ammo if you do need to go that route generally is less expensive than 6.5. 308 blaster ammo like M80 ball is actually a thing, whereas 6.5, not so much. The barrel life on a 308 is pretty much forever it seems like as you will see rifles over 4000 that still shoot quite well. The gun setup is well proven, and does not need to be anything out of the ordinary to work correctly. The 6.5 CM is a better choice if need to be able to shoot decent factory. 6.5 does shoot higher BC bullets, so is less prone to all the things that plague the 308, as well as being easily supersonic at 1000 yards. There are gains to be made with handloading, but good quality factory ammo shoots quite well. The gun setup needs to be a little better, as you really need to ensure the gas system has a good adjustable gas block, and you need to have a high pressure bolt. The barrel life is around 2000-2500 rounds, which isnt terrible in the grand scheme of things. Other considerations? 6 CM, great round, like a laser beam, good factory ammo, but high maintenance in keeping the barrel clean and poor barrel life. 260 Rem, not terrible, but limited factory loadings, so its really a niche caliber, and really doesnt have a big advantage over the 6.5 in a gas gun like it has potential to in a bolt gun. |
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Ended up going with a GAP10 in 308. I shoot two different gas gun series with round counts between 150-250 rounds per match and that doesn't include the occasional 2 gun match. At 200 rounds per match, a 2000 round barrel would get me through less than a single season and that doesn't include practice. Having to rebarrel mid season would be a huge pain in the ass. For the occasional sniper match I'll handload some of the shellshock cases with a friend to see if we can push the BC and velocity higher than normal for 308. Thanks for the input guys |
| Seems like a sensible solution for your situation. Let us know how the GAP works out. |
"What is socialism? The most difficult and tortuous way to progress from capitalism to capitalism." -Stated at an intel conference, East Berlin, Oct. 1988
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
"Every election is a sort of advance auction sale of stolen goods." -H.L. Mencken
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Originally Posted By BrandonP: Ended up going with a GAP10 in 308. I shoot two different gas gun series with round counts between 150-250 rounds per match and that doesn't include the occasional 2 gun match. At 200 rounds per match, a 2000 round barrel would get me through less than a single season and that doesn't include practice. Having to rebarrel mid season would be a huge pain in the ass. For the occasional sniper match I'll handload some of the shellshock cases with a friend to see if we can push the BC and velocity higher than normal for 308. Thanks for the input guys Im sure the GAP10 will do what you need it to. Barrels are a wear component, so if you know your going to kill a barrel mid season, Id have a spare on hand. As an avid 308 handloader I'll offer this advice: For those times you need to really reach out past 800 yards, you really dont need anything too crazy. A Berger 185 Jugg with Varget in a brass case at 2650fps is more than adequate. You just need a slightly higher BC bullet than a something like a 175 SMK/M118LR loading. That being said, a 175 SMK is 1000 yard capable, but you do need to load it a bit hotter. The 185 is better in the wind, but the 175 at the higher velocity (2700+) will get it done. |
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Im a HUGE 308 fan and was "against" 6.5c for a while. That being said, once I started to get into really long range shooting, my 308 was a small workout much past 900-1000 yards with handloads. Shot a friend's 6.5 and factory hornady ammo and it seems much more forgiving even at 1000 yards. If I were ever going to build another large frame AR, I'd prob do a 6.5. But then I got into 224 valkyrie and now the 308 is pointless
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People are obsessed with range, especially "1000" yards. When was the last time you shot 1000 yards? Have you ever shot 1000 yards? Will you ever shoot 1000 yards? I challenge people to go outside and try to I.D. a target, a man-sized target at 1000 yards. Now imagine it's wearing camo and trying to hide. People are able to hit 1000-yard targets at shooting ranges because it's a huge ass target, you know where it's at, you know the exact distance, you aren't in harm's way and it's painted white, or yellow, or orange. With this in mind, it doesn't matter what caliber you choose, because you will never see an adversary past 300 yards unless you are extremely lucky or they are extremely dumb. Deer are extremely dumb, until hunting season arrives. Having a lot of range experience, shooting at distance on a regular basis, is a requirement. If you ever plan to be consistent anywhere past 400 yards, then you are going to have to practice a lot past 400 yards. Lots of premium ammo is involved in the learning curve. I learned to shoot competitively using .308 rifles at 200/300/600 yards using iron sights. I grew up using the moa system, milliradian is Greek to me, but it doesn't matter. I zero every rifle at 200 yards and rarely need to change a thing regarding the knobs. The bottom line is I have one 6.5 Creedmoor bolt gun and countless .308's. I have over 40 years of .308 brass on hand for ongoing practice. For years the Army sold civilian shooting clubs associated with the DCM brass at a discount. Each competitor could purchase 1000 7.62x51mm or .30-06 match cases each year for cheap. $10 per hundred for .308, $12 per hundred for .30-06. .308 is still cheap, when compared to 6.5. 173 grain FMJ .308" match bullets were only $6 per 100. Buy it cheap and stack it deep. Those bullets are gone but thousands of once fired cases remain. This brings up another point, logistics. When you chose a caliber, you are making a commitment. Consider the costs involved in that decision. |
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Originally Posted By borderpatrol: People are able to hit 1000-yard targets at shooting ranges because it's a huge ass target, you know where it's at, you know the exact distance, you aren't in harm's way and it's painted white, or yellow, or orange. Sometimes it's big black circle. But still stupid intimidating at that distance when you have to balance it on top of a front sight post, centered in the rear aperture. 
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I'm no good at telling people what they want to hear when I dont believe it myself :)
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Unless you’re already heavily invested in .308, there’s no reason to go that way. You can talk about longer barrel life, but replacing a barrel is pretty cheap compared to the cost of all the ammo it took to get to that point. |
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Originally Posted By UncleDano: A joke?, no joke. If you have used both the 6.5 Creed and the 260, you know the differences. The 6.5 Creed in a gas gun is a real pain in the ass to tune properly. And as soon as you get it tuned and running good for one bullet, you can start over again when you choose a different weight bullet. It is a much higher pressure cartridge than the 260 Rem, and is known to have problems with blown and pierced primers. A high pressure bolt with a reduced diameter firing pin is a must. I can get about 40 to 50 FPS faster out of the 260 over the 6.5 Creed. Seems like the 260 has more powders to choose from that will produce accurate tiny groups. 260 Brass is cheep and plentiful for reloaders. Factory ammo is sometimes hard to find and expensive. You don't see many off the shelf factory guns in the 260 cal. I shoot them both, but it seems like the 260's have been more trouble-free and more accurate with a wider range of powders. I’ll second this. I’ve got all 3. Not sure why the world has gone crazy for 6.5 over .260. I think .260 is better in just about every way. If I had to choose 1 only I’d take .308, but I now have an sr25 chambered in .260 to compare to my larue Predatobr from 2017 in .260 and just wow. The performance is fantastic. Both can readily be converted back to 7.62 very easily. Just in case I run out of ammo  |
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for me I shoot both, 308win: longer barrel life, more recoil, less range. 6.5creed: shorter barrel life, less recoil, longer range I shoot factory ammo cost is a non-issue bout the same for both if you buy bulk (200rounds once you learn your barrel(s) behavior) I practice with my semi piston 308 and switch to the bolt for longer range - for me its a good training regimen - I like the effect of a higher recoil and follow up needed in the shooting process with a semi, it makes me pay more attention to the fundamentals to get an X or a clang at 1100yd on an moa target. if i only had the option for one I would go for 6.5creed but buy a spare barrel while your at it. regards PeterNNH |
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Originally Posted By 911tts: I’ll second this. I’ve got all 3. Not sure why the world has gone crazy for 6.5 over .260. I think .260 is better in just about every way. If I had to choose 1 only I’d take .308, but I now have an sr25 chambered in .260 to compare to my larue Predatobr from 2017 in .260 and just wow. The performance is fantastic. Both can readily be converted back to 7.62 very easily. Just in case I run out of ammo Originally Posted By 911tts: Originally Posted By UncleDano: A joke?, no joke. If you have used both the 6.5 Creed and the 260, you know the differences. The 6.5 Creed in a gas gun is a real pain in the ass to tune properly. And as soon as you get it tuned and running good for one bullet, you can start over again when you choose a different weight bullet. It is a much higher pressure cartridge than the 260 Rem, and is known to have problems with blown and pierced primers. A high pressure bolt with a reduced diameter firing pin is a must. I can get about 40 to 50 FPS faster out of the 260 over the 6.5 Creed. Seems like the 260 has more powders to choose from that will produce accurate tiny groups. 260 Brass is cheep and plentiful for reloaders. Factory ammo is sometimes hard to find and expensive. You don't see many off the shelf factory guns in the 260 cal. I shoot them both, but it seems like the 260's have been more trouble-free and more accurate with a wider range of powders. I’ll second this. I’ve got all 3. Not sure why the world has gone crazy for 6.5 over .260. I think .260 is better in just about every way. If I had to choose 1 only I’d take .308, but I now have an sr25 chambered in .260 to compare to my larue Predatobr from 2017 in .260 and just wow. The performance is fantastic. Both can readily be converted back to 7.62 very easily. Just in case I run out of ammo The CM wins on pretty much every point. Heavy bullets that will run at mag length without dropping them way into the powder column? Check Factory ammo support? Check. 260 ammo is double what CM is. Local availability and selection is trash for 260. Easy to tune? Check, dont eff around, use H4350 and CCI 450s and be done with it. Its not rocket science. Brass availibilty? Check. Yes, there is good 260 brass out there, but it is not made in the same volume as CM. Better velocity? Check. Open comparable data side by side, CM usually wins by 50-100fps with the same powders and bullets. Better case life? Check. CM brass moves and grows less due to steeper shoulders thus giving it a better service life. Any other point youd care to argue? |
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Originally Posted By Feuerhand: Ah, I forgot we were talking gas guns. I don't have experience running either in a semi and didn't realize there was difficulty tuning the creedmoor. I feel the .260 has a dedicated following but I figured it had been supplanted by the 6.5 creed; that's why I thought posts recommending it were joking. 308 Win. gas operated? Many of us are a no for the gas operated carrier or gas operated piston type. Countless 308 owners enjoy a semi-automatic, recoil-operated rifle with a roller-delayed blowback mechanism, rather than a gas-operated system. Keywords: roller-delayed blowback mechanism. This is one type of 308 in great numbers that serves as a deer rifle, paper target rifle, or on steel targets. |