OFFICIAL .308 PRECISION LOAD RECIPE THREAD (Page 3 of 4)
|
Thanks for the note and words of caution. I was using the data from the article posted below on loads for short barreled 308's as a starting point. https://rifleshooter.com/2017/01/short-barrel-16-5-inch-winchester-load-development/ I think I found where you probably got your data in relation to Sierra's load recommendation in their own load publication. I had worked it the other way and used the powder manufacturer data. 43.9 grains was right in the middle of what Hodgdon had as a min and max load for a 175 grain bullet with 4064. (41.5 min, 45.6 max) There were no over pressure signs in the case or cupping of the primer but there may be other indications I need to look for? It's odd not knowing whether to trust the bullet or powder manufacturer data... I have some additional loads worked up to chronograph next week. Will update once I identify the velocity nodes. |
|
Originally Posted By borderpatrol:
I always use the bullet manufacturer's data. They have extensive experience with their products. vis >>> 
Having said that, I am always leary of the max charge as I almost never load exactly as the specs say. As an example, I am at the beginning of working up a load for a 180 grain bullet in my 308. My case will be different that the case in the example. In addition, my COAL will also be different. I am going to use my rifle's magazine length - 2.875". I am planning initially to load a ladder spanning the range in 18 rounds. I plan to shoot them in slow succession and to look carefully at each case for pressure signs or a hard bolt lift before firing the next in the string. Also, as a part of the development process, I photograph my case heads before and after firing the ladder in question. I save the photos for study and future reference. |
|
168 grain SMK with IMR 4064 powder
42.5 grains IMR 4064 168 SMK L/C Brass BR-2 primers 2.805 OACL 2650 on Magnito Speed coming out of a 20" Begara BMP 2550 coming out of Noveske 16" N6 Both rifles print .75MOA or better with this round combo. |
|
An "ideal" load must take into account the gun it is being used in.
Barrel harmonic vibration will definitely effect accuracy. And harmonic vibration is a factor of barrel diameter, barrel length, does the stock touch the barrel, bullet design, how clean is the barrel, etc. There is no universal ideal load. |
|
This is with LC-LR brass I bought off the EE that was once fired. Attached File Attached File Spreadsheet says 100 yards but it was at the 200yrd range at AGC in Baltimore. First round was a sighter and not included in the 5 shot group. Attached File |
NRA Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member
FBHO Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member
FBHO Member
|
Originally Posted By Sinister:
41.0 of IMR 4895 pushing a 168 Sierra Match King won Gary Anderson the Olympics in 300 Meter rifle. 42.0 of IMR 4064 pushing a 175 Match King is an "Index Load" -- if your rifle doesn't shoot it well there's something's wrong with your hardware. 44 grains of Varget will push most bullets accurately in a bolt rifle. Stick around 42 to 43 for autoloaders. |
|
Bullet: 167gr Scenar
Powder: N-140, 43.5gr Case: Lapua Primer: Winchester LR COL: 2.799" (see Note 1) Rifle: CZ-750 Sniper, 26" barrel MV: 2724fps (Labradar) 100yd 5-shot Group Size: <0.75"; Best Recorded = 0.19" (See Note 2) Note 1: These bullets are individually measured and seated to a CBTO of 2.277". Remarkably, 80% of cartridges have measured COLs of 2.799" with the remainder +/- 0.002". IOW, these bullets have proven to be very quite consistent for me, base tthrough ogive to meplat. Note 2: This load, out of this rifle, has proven to maintain accuracy out to 900yds at an altitude of ~2,000'. |
|
For my 24" .308 Win CIP Minimum Chamber, 1-10" twist:
Brass: Lapua, Necksize only, slight shoulder bump everytime it gets hard to close the bolt Primer: CCI BR2 Bullet: Sierra MK 168 grain Powder: Vihtavuori N-140 (probably hard to get in the US, but i'm in Germany) Weight: 42,5 grain, 40,5 grain also produced good groups OAL: 71,25mm = 2.85in at 100m: 
at 300m: (38mm = 1.54in at 300m) 
|
|
The above few loads are very hot for Gas 308s. That is a shit ton of Varget. I suggest you look up your loads on some of the various official sites before getting anywhere close to these loads. Folks make sure you post the gun info when you post a load. |
#shareyourspare
|
Originally Posted By Bearcat24: He shows bolt gun. Still way to hot! My guess is his primers are flat. Would like to know how fast they are coming out of that barrel plus length of barrel. According to Hodgdon website, max load for a 168 grain bullet is a compressed load. This load in NOT compressed although is at the upper end of the range - load density is 99%. Because I almost never use the cases that are used in manufacturer published data and frequently seat bullets longer than SAAMI max, I determine case capacity at the seating depth of the bullet in question before setting a ceiling on charge weight for development. According to Hodgdon, for most bullets in .308 Win, max loads are compressed. None of my developed loads are compressed but all (so far) are above 96% load density. Lastly, this load was developed with a focus on maximum accuracy not maximum velocity. |
|
Originally Posted By vhmpyr214:
Rifle = Rem 700 1-12 twist rate / 26 in barrel. Hornady 178 Amax IMR 4064 Once fired Hornady case Remington large rifle primers 2.005 / 2.800 I don't have a chrono so I am starting low on my powder charge, and I am shooting for groupings as to velocity ( for now )...I am using the Hornady 9th edition book. http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu204/vhmpyr/20161025_144226_zpsmkgyprlv.jpg It looks like I will be testing 41.5 to 42.0 on my next range time, and this time I will be shooting 5 rounds per string ( Layman 49th says 44.3 gr is max ) I have re-shot 40.8 and this is what I got....left target is dirty barrel. http://i648.photobucket.com/albums/uu204/vhmpyr/20161025_144251_zpsokexxjit.jpg EDIT: The 40.8 was chrono'd using my new Magnetospeed and it was moving at 2480's average with 5 rounds that I fired. I tested the same load on my M24R and it was shooting half inch hole at 100 yards... |
I just posted to a three yr old comment!
for both bolt, and my semi using varget I get great accuracy with both. Both using Federal brass, and federal match primers. 22" Ruger american 43gr. varget 165gr. SST 2.810" got .5" groups of five shots. 18" SS PA10 44Gr. varget 165gr. SST 2.760" .8" groups Now I've got 500 rds of Hornady 168gr BTHP bullets to test, and thinking to use the same gr. powder,a nd try different seating. Also, I really need to shoot these through a chrono. I'm seeing mixed velocitys after finding that 22" shot 2600fps, and 18" shot 2550fps. It may all be different with these two rifles. |
|
Originally Posted By snakeyes711: Just curious, how do you "bump the neck? Any" body die" will only bump the shoulder and not resize the neck. I'm assuming he meant shoulder rather than neck. |
NRA Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member
FBHO Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member
FBHO Member
|
Originally Posted By drfroglegs: @snakeyes711 Any" body die" will only bump the shoulder and not resize the neck. I'm assuming he meant shoulder rather than neck. |
|
Originally Posted By snakeyes711: oh right my bad I meant shoulder. I still don't understand, why not just use a regular full length resizer die. Only sizing the body when it is a tight fit will work the brass less and give you more loadings. So you may size the neck 2 times (two firings) before your brass gets to where it is tight to chamber. Then you bump the shoulder a few thousandths so it will chamber. Now you can neck size only a few more times (say 2-3 more times). So your reloads may look like this. 1- original firing 2- neck size 3- neck size 4- body and neck size 5- neck size 6- neck size 7- neck size 8- body and neck size Doing it this way you are only touching the shoulder twice in 8 firings. Bumping the shoulder is what causes the brass to grow in length (which necesitates the trimming), which is also what causes the brass to become thinner at the base. So the less often you resize the body the longer the case will last. I full length size all of my semiauto ammo and have separate body/neck dies for my bolt guns. |
NRA Life Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member
FBHO Member
Second Amendment Foundation Member
FBHO Member
| Asking in correct thread, anyone use the warner 180gr flatlines and what combinations have you had the best luck with, I have varget, RL15, BL-c(2), and h380. The snipers hide review on them used pp 2000mr and was getting good velocities with it, but its not stocked anywhere near me, h380 has a very similar burn rate, anyone had luck with h380 and the heavies? Any chance I can get a quickload on this bullet? Thanks |
|
Originally Posted By snakeyes711:
My last trip to the range my pa10 is getting flattened primers using fed. Brass. Although even the factory imi brass has flattened primers. No ejector marks though. Im thinking should i re work the load? Or am i barking up the wrong tree? This thread is for what works. Diagnosis should be a separate thread. |
Distinguished Rifleman #2223
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
|
125gr Speer TNT
16gr VV N32C Sized, trimmed, flash hole uniformed, virgin Hornady .308 brass (ID 0.305", loaded OD 0.337") CCI 200 OAL 2.700" +/- 0.005"; at least 0.12" jump Range Report |
Distinguished Rifleman #2223
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
|
Ruger american
.308 42.7gr varget 165gr sgk hp bt Oal: 2.710" 2610 fps Printed: .710" groups Attached File |
|
Do you find the full length sizing required? I load 2 small calibers one a 63,000 psi cartridge the other a 65,000 psi cartrdge both bolts and after first firing I only neck size until I trash the brass. I have a 35 caliber 63,000 psi cartridge neck sizing wored on the range but since it's a large game cartridge I take full length sized cases into the field.
I really only classify by cartridges by max operating pressure. |
|
Please use this thread for load data only. Questions should be asked of a member via IM.
And when replying to a post above the one you're succeeding, quote it, or at least identify who you're replying to. |
Distinguished Rifleman #2223
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
"Technique isn't something that can be taught. It's something you find on your own." - Bunta Fujiwara
No idea how to post pics  However 42.0 gr of IMR 4064 with a 168gr smk produces a .8 group at 100 from my 13.5” lmt mws. 41.5 of the same powder and bullet are slightly bigger but still good. I have tried 168 eld m and 168 smk with IMR 4895 as well as IMR 4064 and the 42.0 with smk is the best I have found so now I’m going to load about 300 of them and zero my new TA-11 with that load. |
|
Here is my most accurate load to date, more so than FGGM or any other factory match ammo I have shot. Case: Starline .308 Bullet: 168gr Nosler BT (MFG Part #30168) Powder: IMR 4064 Charge Weight: 42.0 grains Primer: Federal 210 COAL: 2.85" (.065" jump in my chamber) (Longer than SAMMI spec) Light Crimp (through initial load development, my SDs were lower with a crimp as opposed to without) Rifle: Bolt action, 20" barrel, 1:10 twist This is not a hot load in my rifle. This produces a MV of 2,527 fps (magnetospeed) with a SD in the single digits and about .5 MOA accuracy if I do my part (which I am admittedly not great at yet). |
|
Originally Posted By FOGeologist: This is the right call. Mods, kindly tack this thread This thread is linked in the stickied catch-all thread for load data at the top of the page. Might as well throw some of my data so far in here. This is just a spot I ran across while doing load development. I ran across another area further up around 42.9-43.2 gr that I'm going to shoot for next weekend. Factory Remington 700 SPS-AAC 20" 1-10 175gr SMK @ 2.810" OAL Alpha .308 Win LR @ 2.005" CCI #200 Shooters World Precision Rifle 40.5gr charge weight   |
| Sold my Savage 10T because I wanted a fluted barrel. What a case of the dumb ass. That rifle shot 178 ELD-X fantastic. Cloverleafs @100 yards. Picked up a Savage 110 FCP. The 178's shot ok but not cloverleafs. Had some 200 ELD-X on the shelf so gave it a try. Wow. Cloverleafs again. Using RL-17 since varget won't work. Almost 2700 fps. Never ever sell a tac driver rifle! Live and learn. |
This 10 shot group was 175 SMK, Lapua brass neck sized, federal 210M primer, and 46.0 grains of Vhtavuori N-150. Velocity was averaged at 2689 fps. Elevation was 2250 ft. Rifle is a Sako TRG 22 with a 26" barrel.
|
America is at that awkward stage, it’s too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards....Claire Booth
|
Originally Posted By glocktalk: No idea how to post pics However 42.0 gr of IMR 4064 with a 168gr smk produces a .8 group at 100 from my 13.5” lmt mws. 41.5 of the same powder and bullet are slightly bigger but still good. I have tried 168 eld m and 168 smk with IMR 4895 as well as IMR 4064 and the 42.0 with smk is the best I have found so now I’m going to load about 300 of them and zero my new TA-11 with that load. Try 8208 with that short barrel. Think you will find it better than 4064. I shoot 168 A max out of my 12.5 inch 308 AR. A bit snappier. |
|
Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Pay careful attention to Table III. It covers changing primers and brass cases and how those effects velocities and chamber pressure. Every loaded round in Table III used identical charges of IMR-4895 (40.5 grains) and 168 grain SMK's seated @ 2.800". That load was tested and considered a maximum load when used in Lake City 7.62x51mm brass when using WW or Federal 210M GMM primers. William C. Davis Jr. served as a Chief Ballistician for several US Army Ammunition plants, was America's envoy to NATO for ammunition development and compatibility amongst all NATO members. I would use IMR-4064 data from this chart when developing loads using Varget, RE-15 or VihtaVuori N140. Velocities were fired from 24" barrel using a Universal receiver. Start lower, work up. I use 40.7 grains of IMR-4064 in Lake City brass when loading 168 SMK's. I use 40.0 grains even of IMR-4895 in Lake City brass when loading 168 SMK's. Both of these loads a dedicated for use in competition M1-A Super Match rifles. |
|
Originally Posted By borderpatrol: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/169460/002__2__jpg-2590514.JPG In general I lose 25 fps velocity for every inch shorter than 24" when loading .308. 52,000 c.u.p. roughly translates to 60,000 psi using the piezoelctric transducer method of testing. |
Joined:
Mar 2022
Posts:
59
EE: 0% (0)
AK, USA
|
185 Juggs 42.8 Varget Win Cases CCI 200 LR Primers Loaded to 2.830 to feed from PMags 2,525 fps aggregate from 291 rounds over a LabRadar at 805 ft elevation Rifle is a standard HMR 20" Best group with the Juggs is in the .3s and it shoots 175 SMKs slighter better. Shot a .5 MOA 9 shot group last weekend at 600 yards. |
Pulled out the jammy, aimed it at the sky
He yelled "stick em up" and let two fly.
He yelled "stick em up" and let two fly.
|
18 inch Armalite Hornady 178 HPBT AA2520 42.0 PPU case Fed primer 2448 FPS avg 21.4 ES 6.9 SD .58 MOA ( multiple 5 shot groups) For reference Hornady #8105 ( 178 HPBT Match) 2462 FPS 27.8 ES 16.2 SD .69 MOA (multiple 5 shot groups) Now that I have a new barrel and velocity confirmed it’s time to get back out beyond 700 yards…. This barrel is slow but it shoots, the old one was phenomenal amd it was about 100 FPS faster. |
If a 147 grn 9mm at 1000 FPS is the hammer of Thor then a 165 grn. 40 at 1200 fps must a lightening bolt from Zeus!