Posted: 1/21/2026 2:50:22 PM EDT
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I have a Bergara B14R that has been a struggle in the accuracy department. Specially I use it in a local 230yd steel pig match. It came with the carbon fiber barrel, and decided I wanted the steel barrel instead. The issues I had attributed to the barrel have followed it to the steel barrel. I will get terrible vertical fliers that seem to happen at random. I have tried SK, and Eley match ammunition of several different types and it seems to happen across all types of ammo. Not sure if this was the case with the original barrel, but I purchased some NO-GO and .42 match headspace gages and my bolt would close snuggly on the NO-GO gage. I shimmed the bolt to where the bolt now stops on the NO-GO but is still smooth on the match gage. I'm hoping to get to the range soon to see if there is any improvement. Has anyone else found fixing headspace making improvement over accuracy on rimfire rifles? Curious if I am chasing my tail because I like having a 700 footprint when I could have bought a CZ and just won matches. 
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That changing barrels did not fix the issue might be a clue that it isn't the barrel or their differences in headspace. Massive fliers sounds to me like something is loose. Is the action bedded and are the action screws tight? Are your rail and rings tight? Does your scope work properly on some other rifle? |
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The rifle is in a KRG Bravo stock and torqued to whatever the Bergara manual states (50 in lbs I think). I bedded the mount and torqued mount screws to specs. Rings are badger and torqued as well. Scope is a Leupold MK4. I don't want to say that it can't be those things, but I have tried to eliminate anything that could be the cause. 
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Originally Posted By SturmMonkey: The rifle is in a KRG Bravo stock and torqued to whatever the Bergara manual states (50 in lbs I think). I bedded the mount and torqued mount screws to specs. Rings are badger and torqued as well. Scope is a Leupold MK4. I don't want to say that it can't be those things, but I have tried to eliminate anything that could be the cause. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/80970/20240604_174729_1_-3700154.jpg Nice rifle! Good for checking the easy stuff first. How about the scope? Ever use it on a different rifle to prove it isn't loose inside? Leupolds are great but nothing is perfect. I have one of their 3.5-10X40mm LRT, which looks just like that. Do you have a way to measure the headspace of the two barrels? Even the relative headspace of one to the other? Perhaps compare fired cartridges. Ammo - buy a box of ELEY Tenex and a box of LAPUA Center-X and try those. These are distinctly different, highest quality ammo. I'm suggesting this only as a test. Factoids - It wasn't that long ago that SK made the ammo labeled as WOLF. So, it might be you tested two batches of essentially the same (or similar) ammo. Modern WOLF is made by ELEY. I use the older WOLF Match Extra made by SK. I'm just trying to help. |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I'm just trying to help. If you took anything I had posted as me clapping back at you, I do apologize as I appreciate any thoughts or ideas the forum can provide. I think sometimes my writing comes off blunt. The scope was originally on my .308 Rem 700, and since the Bergara was getting more range time I moved it over from the .308. I never noticed any shift to POI. The scope is zeroed for the match and my sighters are mostly dead on, so it could be possible since I have only ever used that scope on the rifle. Currently the only other candidate I have for another scope to try is a 34mm and I will have to see if I need lower rings since it's currently on an AR. I never considered headspace when I was struggling with the CF barrel, and thought it was that the barrel tension was off. Since I didn't want to send it to Bergara every time I thought the tension was off, and they won't sell the tool to tension it (Even thought they have the torque spec on their site). I don't have the tools to remove/replace barrels for a 700 platform, so unfortunately I have no idea what the headspace was on the previous barrel. I have purchased some Eley tenex and that is what I would be trying out this weekend if the weather wasn't crap. My next match will be the following weekend and that will probably be when I see if the headspace or "cheap" Eley and SK ammo I had tried in the past had anything to do with my fliers. Doing some more testing on paper was my goal, but even AZ gets bad weather every now and then. Thanks for the suggestions. |
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I have heard people, good shooters, claim their Wolf ammo has occasional fliers (IIRC, the claim was a low flier). Tenex and Center-X won't have that potential issue. I've never seen those fliers with any of my WOLF Match Extra ammo but Tenex and Center-X are considered as reference standards, known to be good. Be sure to allow for a few "fouling shots" whenever you change ammo. When did you last clean your barrel? I ask because Anschutz recommends you clean after every use - very different than the lore about never cleaning it. |
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I had a Lilja 16 twist tight bore that if I didnt keep it clean, it would start throwing fliers at about the 125-150 round mark. Even after several thousand rounds, it still did this. But at 50 meters, it could easily hold the X ring on an international target. It was one of the few rifles to shoot a clean target (60 shots in a 1/2 MOA-ish group while still being in the 10 ring) at the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs Colorado. |
Ever notice that everyone is always trying to sell you something.  I have seen gauges or comparators that allow you to measure the rim thickness (headspace) of your rimfire ammunition. Rimfire ammo headspace is controlled by the rim thickness. If your ammo is consistent in its rim thickness, it would seem to me that is unlikely to be the cause of troubles. If your ammo is inconsistent, it might, maybe, possibly be the cause of troubles. If inconsistent, you can use that same comparator to sort your ammo into lots with improved consistency. You could then test a known-consistent lot to see if consistent "headspace" solves your issue. There are so many versions for sale, just search for a rimfire rim thickness gauge. You can also make your own. There are many ways to go for home made, too. |
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Originally Posted By na1lb0hm: Is it possible there’s a carbon ring in the barrel? My lilja barrel with match chamber throws filers all to heck at about 400 rounds if I don’t make sure to really go after it and clean it up. This right here. My Lilja goes to hell when the carbon rings forms. Get a cheap bore scope and inspect the barrel where the chamber meets the lands. |
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Originally Posted By HammerTech: Get a cheap bore scope and inspect the barrel where the chamber meets the lands. I bought one via Amazon. It cost ~$60. It was an education in the cleaning of barrels. It was a revelation. It showed me how ineffectual most cleaning products and methods are, in general. In terms of removing carbon, they basically do not work. Yes, that includes the use of brass bristle brushes. Yes, that includes the specialty carbon cutting solvents. You will want to use JB Bore Paste to remove carbon. Nothing else I tried came even close in terms of easy removal of carbon. You can use your bore scope to monitor your progress. FWIW, Anschutz recommends cleaning your barrel after every use. This runs counter to the conventional wisdom on this forum, but it might explain a few things like what's behind this thread. |
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@lion Decided to move my B14R barrel saga to my post about accuracy woes to keep it out of the Long Gong thread. I tried to contact KI Precision and got no response, and sent a final email giving him a chance to refund me before I charge back. Crickets, so you were right to assume he'd not reply. I hadn't seen anything about barrels from Whidden in any of my searches but found out they make a B14R barrel with a very interesting method for ensuring that the extractors align. Ordered yesterday and the barrel will be here Friday. Whidden B14R Barrel. I also impulse bought a CZ 457 Varmint because PSA had it on sale for $499! |
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@sturmmonkey My credit card is doing an investigation but I never heard back from KI. I have never dealt with Whidden, but only heard good things, including that they pick up the phone. I've never done it but this seems pretty awesome. https://www.whiddengunworks.com/ammunition-testing/ |
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Originally Posted By Trollslayer: I bought one via Amazon. It cost ~$60. It was an education in the cleaning of barrels. It was a revelation. It showed me how ineffectual most cleaning products and methods are, in general. In terms of removing carbon, they basically do not work. Yes, that includes the use of brass bristle brushes. Yes, that includes the specialty carbon cutting solvents. You will want to use JB Bore Paste to remove carbon. Nothing else I tried came even close in terms of easy removal of carbon. You can use your bore scope to monitor your progress. FWIW, Anschutz recommends cleaning your barrel after every use. This runs counter to the conventional wisdom on this forum, but it might explain a few things like what's behind this thread. I've always just used a lead removing cloth and copper chore boy. [NOT the copper coated steel fake stuff] with something like Kroil. Of course I'm no great olympic level shooter so take that for what it is. |
Liberals are a curious mix of communism and fascism, they want to destroy you but want to use your own money to do it.
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
I'm getting down to the last box, the others have all been destroyed...
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I have the same rifle (carbon wrapped barrel) in the same stock. I've never noticed fliers and if I did I'd blame me or the wind. I had minor magazine feeding issues but thick tape on the front of magazine used as a spacer solved that. And WOW at Whiddens barrel price! Attached File |
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Originally Posted By DuneShoot: I have the same rifle (carbon wrapped barrel) in the same stock. I've never noticed fliers and if I did I'd blame me or the wind. I had minor magazine feeding issues but thick tape on the front of magazine used as a spacer solved that. And WOW at Whiddens barrel price! https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/247601/50-100target_jpg-3820724.JPG I had issues with the KRG feeding too, the magazine well can actually be moved to tighten up the slop in the magazine. There is a screw that holds the back of the magwell that can be adjusted to remove the play that causes the cartridge to nose dive. 
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Joined:
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NC, USA
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Just wondering where you are on this project. Have you tried groups while single feeding to ensure the issue isn’t the bullet getting damaged during chambering from the magazine? Have you examined your fired cases for both pin strike consistency (location) and under the rim for case swelling due to excessive headspace? Did you ever shoot this in the factory HMR stock or was it purchased as just the barreled action? Have you tried torque tuning the action screws? Is the muzzle threaded? A cap or device? Factory trigger? Does the bolt handle jump during firing? Was the rifle set-up properly: Loading the barreled action to the rear (full contact with recoil lug) during stock mounting. Was the scope mount and rings loaded forward for full contact with rail abutments and picatinny rail? |
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Originally Posted By obx22: Just wondering where you are on this project. Had an issue with the steel barrel I had purchased to try and see if it would shoot better than the Carbon Fiber barrel. Had a series of stupid tings happen with a patch holder and some damage to the rifling was the result. Solution was to buy a KI Precision prefit barrel, but after waiting 13 weeks with no communication and a growing number of other horror stories about unfilled orders, I cancelled and did a CC charge back. Whidden makes a neat prefit barrel and had them in stock. Barrel arrived Friday and I got it installed, headspaced and put back in the KRG. Didn't have the time to shoot for groups and just zeroed and shot steel pigs at 235 yds. Rifle shot well with Eley Tenex but the wind made a true determination of accuracy difficult. I hope to get some paper groups of some of the various match ammo I have to see if I can find what the new barrel likes. Have you tried groups while single feeding to ensure the issue isn’t the bullet getting damaged during chambering from the magazine? No, If the new barrel gives me any issues I will add it to the troubleshooting steps. Have you examined your fired cases for both pin strike consistency (location) and under the rim for case swelling due to excessive headspace? No, that seems like a common sense thing that I should have thought about. Currently the rifle is headspaced according to a 22 Long LR SAAMI/CIP Headspace Competition GO Gauge - 0.042. Did you ever shoot this in the factory HMR stock or was it purchased as just the barreled action? I purchased a barreled action here in the EE, but my brother has a takeoff that he gave me to try if I want to remove the KRG Bravo from the list of potential accuracy issues. Have you tried torque tuning the action screws? Was hoping to try this while doing some paper groups when I can get the range time. Is the muzzle threaded? A cap or device? New barrel was not offered with threading and I have no intention to get it done. Factory trigger? Action came with a Timney Calvin Elite 2-stage. Does the bolt handle jump during firing? It definitely doesn't in it's current state. Was the rifle set-up properly: Loading the barreled action to the rear (full contact with recoil lug) during stock mounting. Was the scope mount and rings loaded forward for full contact with rail abutments and picatinny rail? Yes on both. Also, regardless of how it shoots the rifle is sexy as hell with the M24 taper on the barrel. It's now the same configuration as my .308 700. Stole the scope off an AR, and have lower rings coming this week.  |
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Had a small window for some range time Sunday and got some groups with a couple of different .22 ammo manufacturers. I am by no means a benchrest shooter, and I am definitely the weakest factor in accuracy, but by my standards the rifle shot extremely well. Did my initial 100yd zero with CCI Standard Velocity, and the barrel really didn't seem to appreciate it. It also showed a huge cold bore velocity shift. Here you can see two strings starting with shots in the 870fps range:  Eley Tenex was definitely the star of the trip with this 14 round group:  RWS Rifle Match did well with a flyer that may have been shooter induced:  I ran out of time to test the rest of the loads I had wanted to try but so far fixing headspace issues with a Bergara by putting a $600 pre-fit barrel seems like a legitimate strategy .
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I've lost lock on this thread but... Why do you attribute those fine groups to the new barrel and not to the better ammo (ELEY Tenex and RWS Rifle Match)? Why did you not shoot that ammo in the original barrel before dropping $600 to replace something that may not have been the problem? I'm just asking for insight into the thinking with no implied criticism - none at all. At 100 yards, those are some mighty fine groups, no matter how you got them. |
I was having fliers with Tenex and RWS with the previous barrel. That was really what had me wondering about headspace since the guy I paid to install the barrel obviously didn't check headspace as part of the process . Had I not damaged the steel barrel I would have tried the very helpful suggestions I got in this thread. I used this thread to get the KI Precision wait time thread drift out of the Long Gong thread since it was a continuation of my Bergara saga. This weekend is our 2nd Long Gong match, and that will be a true test of all the effort. |
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I am not bagging on Bergara, I have a really nice .308 HMR. However, you already mentioned the solution, so you may as well get on with it. This is an CZ American Varmint with a Timney trigger and I had Gem-tech thread the barrel. I have had it a while. It is boringly accurate.  |
Preferred pronoun: MARINE
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Wow, I wonder if there were bigger issues than just not shipping barrels. Also, it's probably difficult to show up to PRS matches and not get hounded by people you owe products to. Barrel makers/blank customizers don't seem to be able to scale well based on demand. Don't have lead times, just # in stock and you can work at your own pace. It makes no sense to hold a bunch of customers money knowing you aren't going to be able to ship their order. I saw this happen with a local barrel maker, and I believe some of his customers actually came down to AZ to get their actions and money back. It wasn't pleasant and I haven't seen him around since. |