Winter camping: what to sleep in (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 11/13/2024 1:25:06 PM EDT
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I'm getting conflicting thoughts so I wanted to get some more input. Assuming appropriate pads and bags, what do you wear to sleep when camping? Obvious is that you absolutely do not sleep in the clothes you've worn all day, they are dirty and sweaty and will keep you cold. What you do wear should be relatively loose fitting to keep from constricting blood flow. Beyond that, I've come across three different strategies: 1. NOTHING: heat the sleeping bag, it heats you. I've done this with good results in moderate weather. 2. Tomorrow's base layer: change into the clean, dry thermals you'll wear tomorrow. A buddy swears this is counter productive and you'll be cold the next day -- I guess because of night time sweating? He didn't have a clear answer. Frankly I think he was confusing this with wearing the same day's base layer. 3. Specific bed clothes: stuff you don't wear at all during the day, clean and dry and just for sleeping. I think this would almost be counter productive as it will be "used" by the second night. What are your strategies for keeping warm when camping in the cold? |
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Originally Posted By Hillcountry: Naked and sharing the bag with a voluptuous young lady! Heat and fun all in one! While I'll get a "HELL YEAH" from the dads, I think most won't appreciate if I tell my Scouts to do that  |
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Back in scouting days we had the Klondike Derby. You know you make a thing out of 2x4s that kind of looked like a dog sled and you and the rest of your patrol had to drag it to a bunch of different stations and do different outdoor winter tasks.... Dragging that thing through 3 plus feet of snow was no picnic. It kinda worked like a sled but would sink in the unpacked snow pretty easily. Lucky me I got to do it during the horrible winters of 77 and 78. We didn't have any kind of heat source in our tent... no fires or stove, no insulated pads or anything. We were told sleep wise for every one layer you had on top you needed 3 beneath you... So I had a plastic tarp, several wool blankets, sleeping bag on top of that and another wool blanket to cover up with. Just wore long johns, socks and a toboggan. Kept next days clothes in a stuff sack for a pillow. Most of us just had department store sleeping bags not really cold rated. They claimed if you put your boots in a sealed plastic bad they wouldn't freeze... A few kids woke up the next morning with frozen boots anyway. I would maybe put your boots in a bag and stick them inside your sleeping bag under your feet. This has been my walking up hill in the snow both ways Ted Talk. |
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Be warm enough to be warm and not sweat; that might mean being a little “cool”. I stuff everything I’m going to put on into the bottom of the sleeping bag. Stays warm but I don’t risk sweating in it and it not drying before having to be in the cold. It’s ultimately going to be down to your particular body and comfort. |
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Originally Posted By entropy: How cold? What altitude? How many days? This is just general advice, not arctic survival. Typically a weekend. I guess I'm most struggling to understand why wearing the next day's base layer to bed would lead you to be cold the next day. Does anyone have that experience? |
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: This is just general advice, not arctic survival. Typically a weekend. I guess I'm most struggling to understand why wearing the next day's base layer to bed would lead you to be cold the next day. Does anyone have that experience? assuming you’re not using cotton thenI don’t see a big problem. Merino wool or polypropylene shouldn’t be saturated. They’ll wick. |
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Your choices really are the same, and make little difference. More important is your sleeping bag and pad. Acclimate to cold at your home. Years ago, -28 degrees F, I just changed socks, and got in my sleeping bag (no tent). Hot tents are very hard to beat. A large size Jon-E hand warmer in the bottom of your bag is fantastic. |
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Originally Posted By vim: I typically wear Helly Hansen Lifa as a baselayer, and don't change for night. This surprises me, as the few times I don't change I find I'm much colder than expected. |
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: This surprises me, as the few times I don't change I find I'm much colder than expected. Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: Originally Posted By vim: I typically wear Helly Hansen Lifa as a baselayer, and don't change for night. This surprises me, as the few times I don't change I find I'm much colder than expected. Do you have a warmer set for night? That would do it too. The idea of a wicking base layer is that body heat pushes moisture through and out of it (I know you know that). Seems to work for me, especially back in Scouting days, when the winter evenings were low-exertion and around the fire, giving me plenty of time to dry. In a deep winter scenario, I would probably be in that bag with fleece pants and jacket over the base layer anyway. That said, if I was car camping and could throw extra things into the gear pile, a clean sleeping set at night is always nicer. |
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: While I'll get a "HELL YEAH" from the dads, I think most won't appreciate if I tell my Scouts to do that Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: Originally Posted By Hillcountry: Naked and sharing the bag with a voluptuous young lady! Heat and fun all in one! While I'll get a "HELL YEAH" from the dads, I think most won't appreciate if I tell my Scouts to do that The scouts will, but their moms won't |
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Dedicated sleep clothing and socks. The baselayer I wore during the day comes in the bag to dry out if slightly damp (the most it should be, if you’re layering and pacing yourself correctly), along with my pants if not too damp, my light down jacket and booties for when I have to piss, and my boots in my inside-out sleeping bag compression sack so they stay warm. This is the main reason I generally buy a 6’6” bag instead of 6’. The down jacket goes between my feet and boot bag. I usually wear my GI sleeping bag hood, more to keep the inside of the bag clean than for warmth. Dedicated sleep clothing does the same. If your sleeping clothes are getting “dirty” while you sleep you need to vent your bag better to avoid sweating. |
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Originally Posted By vim: A hat and a pair of thick warm socks, for me. Everything else varies. I typically wear Helly Hansen Lifa as a baselayer, and don't change for night. I need to get more Helly Hansen gear. I bought a HH base layer on sale in Canada and was amazed how warm it was snowboarding, but I still didn't get hot sleeping in it. |
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| Base layer and as little else as possible. That way you have more layers to put on in the morning to help your body adjust to no being in the bag any more. Ideally, keep boots and other layers in the bag/bivy/tent as close as possible so they don't freeze over night, but don't sleep in them. |
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At a minimum a beanie and a loose fitting pair of ragg wool sleeping socks. If it’s colder a loose fitting pair of sweat pants and an oversized hoodie. Tomorrow’s vase layer come in the bag with me and they are toasty warm in the morning. As far as my bag I’m a little different than most. I usually unzip it and use it like a big blanket. I always have a couple of KIFARU Woobies in my vehicle and one of them always get doubled up on top of the sleeping pad. For me it really makes a difference. |
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A dedicated set of base layers to sleep in is nice. But, even then, at the end of the day, it comes down to fatigue, a judgement call on how bad my current base layer is, what's going on tomorrow, and stuff like that. It's often just wearing my same base layer day after day, save maybe having a dedicated pair of overnight socks. Even if it is the same base layer, day after day, an absolute necessity is a wipe down at the end of the day, particular attention to the feet. It's not a comfortable thing to do in the cold, but you just have to get past that. |
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I sleep with a minimum of clothes, or nothing with a sheet based sleeping bag liner instead of pajamas, because I toss and turn alot. I expect mornings to be cold, which has the dual purpose of waking me up and inspiring alacrity. For my boots, I toss a handwarmer in each, then a sock, THEN into a 2 gallon plastic bag. The handwarmer lasts most of the night, and the sock helps hole in the heat, so no frozen boots... |
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Originally Posted By barrysuperhawk: I sleep with a minimum of clothes, or nothing with a sheet based sleeping bag liner instead of pajamas, because I toss and turn alot. I expect mornings to be cold, which has the dual purpose of waking me up and inspiring alacrity. For my boots, I toss a handwarmer in each, then a sock, THEN into a 2 gallon plastic bag. The handwarmer lasts most of the night, and the sock helps hole in the heat, so no frozen boots... Why lock moisture in with your boots? (Plastic bag???) Dry base layer, fresh socks, and a knit cap for me. |
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: Looks like consensus is there is no consensus :-) Dry yourself, wear dry clothes. Thanks for all the input, gentlemen. Yup. - clean and dry yourself - dry clothes - adjust sleeping bag and clothing so you don’t get sweaty while sleeping. No matter how tempting it might be, DO NOT exhale into/inside the bag for the warm air from your breath. It has a ton of moisture. |
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Definitely depends on conditions and if I'm carrying it in on my back I'm not taking any extra clothing. I sleep hot even if I'm not wearing the clothing, generally everything I had on during the day will be in the bag with me to dry out overnight. I do keep extra gloves and a beanie in the bag besides the ones drying to be warm for the morning. Do what you need to to be as comfortable as you want to be. It's when things go awry that it gets interesting. One trip on rainier I was so sunburned I slept on top of my bag because I was sweating my ass off. Another solo trip at only 5500ft in the cascades I had every possible layer on inside my 15 degree bag and my Nalgene froze solid while in the bag with me... I was only recently introduced to using a pee bottle, what a game changer. But I recommend testing out the size of your bladder while at home. Finding out in the dark, on a snowy mountain while in your sleeping bag that a 1 liter bottle is not big enough and now it's a struggle not to spill it while trying not to keep peeing into your sleeping bag on the second night of a week long trip is not ideal. |
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Originally Posted By GrizzlyAdams: Let Wiggy hit you with some knowledge He has some interesting ideas regarding thermodynamics, but his bag kept me alive with about -60F windchill while just in a bag thrown on a sleeping pad in the snow. It was impressive. |
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Originally Posted By rollpin: Be warm enough to be warm and not sweat; that might mean being a little “cool”. I stuff everything I’m going to put on into the bottom of the sleeping bag. Stays warm but I don’t risk sweating in it and it not drying before having to be in the cold. It’s ultimately going to be down to your particular body and comfort. This. Plus it should be wool |
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Here in WA wet is worse than cold in Winter. So, the couple times I camped in Winter when my son was in the Boy Scouts, our main concern was to make sure things in the tents remained dry because the rain does not stop. It gives a few pauses. Therefore, we selected locations that would not flood. Second, we made sure the tents were well assembled and did not have leaks. Then we made sure that everything that wasn't inside the tent itself was well sealed from the rain. We used those air-inflated mats under the sleeping bags to insulate from the ground and everyone was dressing multiple layers. Everyone had to have at least a poncho so we could remain dry under the constant rain. No heat sources except for the usual bonfire at night, which was tough, because of the rain. We once had one of those 10x10ft portable shades that was great because we could seat outside the tents and not be rained over. |
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: Not that I need another bag, but is Wiggy's some super awesome secret brand? I haven't heard of them, seems like another synthetic lofting insulation. Worth the price? Well worth it. Made in the USA and Wiggy is still alive and kicking. I'll be buying more soon. |
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: Not that I need another bag, but is Wiggy's some super awesome secret brand? I haven't heard of them, seems like another synthetic lofting insulation. Worth the price? They are sub-par sleeping bags. A cold weather sleeping bag needs good draft tubes,, especially at the neck, and those bags don't have them. It doesn't matter if their equivalent loft is comparable to a down bag, which it isn't, they are going to suffer significant heat loss through air exchange. For that matter, all but the worst sleeping bags would benefit from a good draft collar system. |
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Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: This is just general advice, not arctic survival. Typically a weekend. I guess I'm most struggling to understand why wearing the next day's base layer to bed would lead you to be cold the next day. Does anyone have that experience? Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: Originally Posted By entropy: How cold? What altitude? How many days? This is just general advice, not arctic survival. Typically a weekend. I guess I'm most struggling to understand why wearing the next day's base layer to bed would lead you to be cold the next day. Does anyone have that experience? No reason other than less movement the following morning, and starting the day with lower internal heat generation and feeling cold. The task of changing layers, tortured manipulations inside the sleeping bag, that gets your internal heat gen slightly elevated, and in a well insulated system, will give you a pretty good feeling of warmth. A common strategy with minimal-esque setups is to change out of your day layers and into a sleeping layer, while in your sleeping bag, it's not easy if done in a properly sized bag, and that effort, that frustration struggle, starts you off for the night warmer than you would have been otherwise. |
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Originally Posted By L_JE: They are sub-par sleeping bags. A cold weather sleeping bag needs good draft tubes,, especially at the neck, and those bags don't have them. It doesn't matter if their equivalent loft is comparable to a down bag, which it isn't, they are going to suffer significant heat loss through air exchange. For that matter, all but the worst sleeping bags would benefit from a good draft collar system. Originally Posted By L_JE: Originally Posted By WhyTanFox: Not that I need another bag, but is Wiggy's some super awesome secret brand? I haven't heard of them, seems like another synthetic lofting insulation. Worth the price? They are sub-par sleeping bags. A cold weather sleeping bag needs good draft tubes,, especially at the neck, and those bags don't have them. It doesn't matter if their equivalent loft is comparable to a down bag, which it isn't, they are going to suffer significant heat loss through air exchange. For that matter, all but the worst sleeping bags would benefit from a good draft collar system. @L_JE Sorry if I missed your recommendation earlier in the thread, but what do you use? My Wiggy's arctic bag does have a large draft stop type of tube which goes around the interior of the bag right next to the zipper. Is there something they're missing with that, or is it inadequate? They're certainly very large and heavy bags, but I'm comfortable in mine. I wouldn't be opposed to going with something else though, so let us have your take please. |
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Originally Posted By killingmachine123: @L_JE Sorry if I missed your recommendation earlier in the thread, but what do you use? My Wiggy's arctic bag does have a large draft stop type of tube which goes around the interior of the bag right next to the zipper. Is there something they're missing with that, or is it inadequate? They're certainly very large and heavy bags, but I'm comfortable in mine. I wouldn't be opposed to going with something else though, so let us have your take please. Here is a comparison of some top non-boutique brands Outdoorgearlab. I like to use the gearlabs lists to establish a set of features i want then do my own research for other brands and models they don't include. I am partial to feather friends bags because they are local to me and their store actually stocks mountaineering gear unlike REI. I have broad enough hips and shoulders that make the extra size of the Peregrine necessary. I also still use an old marmot 15 degree bag that uses 900 fill down. When it's going to stay above freezing I usually take an enlightened equipment quilt. |
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Originally Posted By killingmachine123: @L_JE Sorry if I missed your recommendation earlier in the thread, but what do you use? My Wiggy's arctic bag does have a large draft stop type of tube which goes around the interior of the bag right next to the zipper. Is there something they're missing with that, or is it inadequate? They're certainly very large and heavy bags, but I'm comfortable in mine. I wouldn't be opposed to going with something else though, so let us have your take please. Wiggy's draft tubes are draft tubes in name only. They are comparable to what I see on 30°F bags. And, I've never seen anything resembling a draft collar on these bags, a proper draft collar. Their overbag approach is backwards from the way you would outfit yourself, and better suited for a one-size-fits-all approach like big army. Maximize loft, minimize surface area, minimize air movement. The Wiggy's overbag runs counter to 1 and 3. And any synthetic bag is going to suffer on 2. Wiggy's optimizes for supply. That's big army. Look at how REI is now doing their Magma series of sleeping bags: 3 lengths x 3 widths. This allows you to optimize for you. It keeps outer surface area to a minimum, and is a good step toward minimizing internal void space. The REI bags lack the 3D draft collar that is crucial for colder weather bags - absent clothing layers. A puffy jacket can accomplish something similar, but not as well as a well designed collar, let alone for the weight difference between the two. And a puffy jacket can still be used with a good draft collar, making it even more effective in some cases. But, that said, the REI bags are not cold weather bags, not as individual bags. Which brings us to augmenting a bag. A good system is to start with a properly sized outer bag, sized as a stand alone bag for its rated temp, not an overbag. Then add a 30F down bag or fitted quilt inside that bag. In most cases, the inner bag will simply fill the void space, without adversely compressing it's insulation. A proper differential cut of the primary bag will generally prevent compression of its insulation, aside from being pressed against an outside object regardless of what you have stuffed in there - elbows, knees, etc, notable exception. A two bag system suffers from the interstitial air gap between the bags. And overbag system exacerbates this condition with a live subject. But overbag and innerbag approaches both address void space between the bags wall and person. In theory. In practice, its going to vary by the person's size, the bag dimensions, the insulation type, etc. And I've seen inner bag systems do this better than overbag. A live subject. EN testing allows the bag to be rigged, tucked under the mannequin, to minimize convective air voids of an oversized fit. And that's where EN ratings can really fall apart when moving to a live subject that is breathing , moving through the night. That's where proper (tailored) bag geometry, and top flight draft tubes and collars separate the pack. Malachowski. The Malachowski Super Ultralight 600. It reduces the problem to everything a sleeping bag needs to be, with nothing more, nothing less. From there, the solution regresses for matters of practicality: less expensive insulation; wider, more generalized cut; full length zipper; labor simplifications to reduce costs; heavier, more durable fabrics;, and so forth. The only aspect the Malachowski lacks is Montbell's elasticized inner fabric that passively reduces internal voids - but, I'm not entirely sold on that approach. This isn't to say go out and buy a Malachowski bag. No. I'm just citing it as the limiting example. Feathered Friends and Western Mountaineering are two domestic manufacturers who produce top flight bags. The WM slim fit bags are a little slimmer than the offerings by FF, if I recall. I keep circling back to pointing out the trimmest bags. It's because they are the most efficient. And sleeping layers also work to mitigate convective losses. But, if the bag is oversized, sleeping layers can only do so much. |
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My experience is mostly with down. I've had limited experience with synthetic bags but enough to form my opinion that down is better. I've been spoiled since I was a kid and always had a down bag. The times I've had an impromptu packing adventure and borrowed a synthetic bag I could see the difference in weight and packability and quickly understood why my Dad always picked down over synthetic when I outgrew gear and needed an upgrade. I use a dedicated base layer as my sleep clothes. It's just a thin and lightweight silk top and bottom and mid weight merino wool socks. I sleep in the beanie I hike in. The silk base layer is a form fit so not something I would consider a tight fit but it's not loose and baggy. If my bag is accurately comfort rated for the conditions I'm fine. I don't need thick thermals to sleep in and stay warm. I don't really consider my sleep clothes dirty after the first night's use because their purpose is really to be a dry layer that keeps my sweat and skin oil off the sleeping bag. Over a 5 day winter packing trek I'll only pack two thermal tops and bottoms, plus my sleep top and bottom. I just rotate the thermals. Day 1 - first pair Day 2 - second pair Day 3 - first pair Day 4 - second pair Day 5 - first pair, or my sleep clothes. I also leave a set of clean clothes in the truck to change into when done. On day 3 the first pair might be damp in the morning if I didn't dry them by a fire. Once I'm dressed and moving with coffee in me I'm no longer cold. I don't want to be sleeping in my dirty and sweaty clothes used while packing. I sleep in clothes that haven't been soaking up sweat all day so that I don't have to wash my down bag as often. Down will lose its loft as it get dirty and the oils from your skin work through the fabric by capillary action. Loft is what keeps you warm so fluff your bag after you pull it out of the stuff sack and create habits that maintain loft. Some guys mess up and crawl into their bag right out of the stuff sack and it takes time for the down to loft on its own and retain heat. My reasoning is why I don't understand the "sleep naked" guy's opinion. My opinion is that you don't really sleep warmer and all you do is get your bag dirty faster. Another thing is that new backpackers/campers don't always understand for cold weather is how important the R-value of the sleeping pad is along with calorie intake. You want at least a R-5 pad for winter camping. As a younger and poorer man I've gotten by with a R-3 pad sleeping on snow but that's a young man's adventure now. I don't have the appetite that I used to and getting lots of calories in is harder than it used to be. Calories are important for sleeping warm. So don't just focus on the bag. You need a sleep system that consists of: the bag, the pad, your diet, and probably a beanie too. I have a winter bag (0 degree comfort rating) and winter pad (R-7) for winter use. Then I have a 25 degree comfort rated quilt and R-5 pad that I use spring, summer, and fall. In the summer I may kick a leg out, or not use the pad straps, to regulate my temperature easier. If best you can afford is a synthetic bag then that will give you some leeway since it can maintain loft better when dirty. Make sure you understand the advertised rating number. Is it extreme, limit, or comfort? Most people will find the comfort rating needs to match the conditions. That's most people though so it's not guaranteed to be everyone. You might sleep the same, warmer or colder than most people. |
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For both summer and winter back packing I switched to a hammock years ago. In winter I use a 10’x10’ tarp along with a 9’ hammock. It lets me stake down and close both ends of the hammock for maximum warmth and wind protection, while keeping me off the ground. A good top quilt along with a good under quilt is warmer in my opinion than an insulated sleeping pad and sleeping bag. The entire combination is lighter than a comparable four season tent, sleeping bag and R4 or R5 keeping pad. It’s also independent of snow depth. Bring eight snow stakes and you can pitch it on snow shoes in hip deep snow. A side can also be guyed out for more room while cooking, etc, especially with ski or hiking poles. In this case, the ends are closed to demonstrate it for someone during a summer camp out, so you can see the longer bug net poking out both ends. 
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I have a mountain hardware bag and a teton- cheap mummy bag and some old school rectangle bags. The phantom from MH is the best. the old school bags work great with a wool blanket over the top. If car camping- which is mostly what I do I wear long underwear or fleece pajama etc. The one thing I've learned from my cheap teton bag is to drop a handwarmer or two in the bottom of the bag. This make it so that when you move around you get a hot rush of air out of the bag- not a cold rush of air coming in. I also sleep cold and am getting older- I used to be able to ignore the cold better, now comfort is more important. |
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BTDT a hundred times in the Army: Assuming you will be at least in some kind of 2 man tent (Even a cheap one is highly recommended) T-shirt and underwear. Under 20 deg. might add thin silks as the Army sleep system didn't really cut it below that. I always wore a knit or skull cap. Do NOT overdress, you were spot on; sweating will not help and hurts you later on Add a light pair of socks if your feet tend to get cold The clothes you are wearing the next day; stuff them inside your sleeping bag or at least between the bivy and the inner bag. Putting on freezing cold clothes in the am when it's already but cold Suuuuuucks. Bring as much gear inside the tent with you as possible I slept best with 50% of my "Bedding" underneath me. The cold ground really sucks it out of you. A light tarp or even nylon windbreaker makes a noticeable difference It is coldest the hour as the sun comes up. I liked to save my last layer for that after 3-4 am when I would wake up cold. like my woobie just laying next to me I could pull over myself[/li] |