Posted: 12/18/2025 1:44:03 AM EDT
|
Looking to buy something for less than $200k in East Texas with a VLB land loan. Priorities are as follows: 1. Capital preservation 2. Timber production 3. Recreational 4. Future retirement home site I do not see any properties with mineral rights to convey. I’m seeing about 30 acres as the average size for my price level. Is that too small? I’m not expecting for the timber to pay off the property or anything like that. Just looking for some good criticism and suggestions. Lastly, Is this something that I need to do on my own or is this something that I can contract out fully based on my projected scale of 30 acres. I’m watching videos on YouTube so any suggestions would be appreciated. I have 11 acres in the brush country that I hunt on as experience but there is timber opportunity there at all. Looking to diversify. |
|
Originally Posted By HuntFishGunCar: Looking to buy something for less than $200k in East Texas with a VLB land loan. Priorities are as follows: 1. Capital preservation 2. Timber production 3. Recreational 4. Future retirement home site I do not see any properties with mineral rights to convey. I’m seeing about 30 acres as the average size for my price level. Is that too small? I’m not expecting for the timber to pay off the property or anything like that. Just looking for some good criticism and suggestions. Lastly, Is this something that I need to do on my own or is this something that I can contract out fully based on my projected scale of 30 acres. I’m watching videos on YouTube so any suggestions would be appreciated. I have 11 acres in the brush country that I hunt on as experience but there is timber opportunity there at all. Looking to diversify. It is a lot of work and leaves behind a wasteland of a mess [stumps etc] that must be dealt with if it is anywhere near your living/recreational area. For that budget for a retirement site I would go for the nicest place one could afford and forget about forestry and make it a utopia for later. |
In God we trust, all others pay cash
|
We have about 30 acres of timber on our farm. In 2018 we sold 90 trees for just under 100k. They took 2 species i dont recall what they were. Yes they made and left a big mess. Didn't really matter because those trees came from the same areas my great grand parents used as a landfill. |
|
30 acres is insufficient for hunting/recreational ground. If the timber is good, It could pay off the land over 20 or 30 years. I owned a farm in KY that had about 170 acres of timber of a total 200 acres land. I logged it 3 times in 20 years and my half of the proceeds came to just shy of 130,000. Selective logging will not make the property look a waste land but there has to be enough prop[erty to begin with. If you spring for this 30 acres, use it as your "wonderland," or log it as investment property and be happy. |
|
That’s all good to hear. I’m surprised 30 acres would net that much! Obviously YMMV. However good news nonetheless. As I mentioned capital preservation is my primary. As for hunting only on 30 acres. I have a stand on my 10 acres of brush property and get plenty of use out of it in the brush country. I’m not expecting to live off of wild game. Just a bonus. |
|
Normally around here it costs 400-800 per acre to clear, clean, spray, and plant pine trees. Thin in 15 and cut at 30. Repeat. But, you pay property taxes every year and thinning is up in the air with the pulp mills closing. Hardwoods take 50-100 years. Usual profit, if you replant, is about 600+ an acre at 30 years. You do the math. An old saying: “the last one to cut and sell makes the money”. |
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
|
Fredman is Our Man in the Woods, but I fear he gets bothered by this sort of thing all the time! I don’t know TX forests, but around here, hardwood veneer logs are your big money makers. Be careful, timber companies will “select cut”, but what that can mean is they high grade it, taking the best trees and leaving the garbage, preventing another harvest for decades. |
"The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there."
L.P. Hartley
L.P. Hartley
|
I think it is unlikely that you will find a property that is for sale, affordable and filled with enough profitable timber to make the payoff very lucrative. Possible, but unlikely. I've seen a (very) few folks pay for, or nearly pay for, property that had very good timber that had not been logged in a very long time. When complete, it looks like a bomb went off. It can be cleaned back up, but it takes money. In those cases, they purchased properties that had been owned by folks who did not want to deal with loggers, who died off, then their kids wanted a quick payday. I'd equate it to finding a low mileage muscle car under a tarp in an old barn. I have a local small time logger do some selective logging on my property. Since his scale is so small, he doesn't need to cut a bunch to recuperate his minimal mobilization costs. This is great, as it doesn't leave a huge mess for me to clean up, and I really like selectively managing the timber. The downside is, the payout is pretty small. I'll take the few $K here and there, but it's certainly not lucrative. |
"When you need it and ain't got it, you're singin' a different tune..."
|
I have 40 acres in Burkville outside of Jasper. Its all Pine with with a few hardwoods mixed in. A forester with A&M did my timber survey and made some suggestions. It was last clear-cut in 2004, and its coming up for another cut in the next few years. I plan on having it logged but I'm sure what money there is to be made will go towards hiring a dozer for the clean up. If you hire a forester to handle your logging they will take 10% of the sale. If you deal with the logging company direct they're going to scam you. I'm researching on planting pecans instead of pine. At least I'll get something useful out of the pecans. I hunt my place, 40 acres is plenty for a couple of stands. That said, east Texas is chock full of poachers, meth heads and outlaws so plan on putting cameras up. I bought my place in 2021 and it has doubled in value, so I wouldnt worry about capital preservation. Your chances of getting mineral rights to anything now in E. Tx is pretty slim, those were sold out generations ago on most plots and good luck on finding who has those rights now. You'll ahve to hire a landman. When you do find a place, drill your own water well, or hire it out and drill deep as you can afford. Corporations are sucking water out of those aquifers like you wouldnt believe. |
|
Originally Posted By HuntFishGunCar: That’s all good to hear. I’m surprised 30 acres would net that much! Obviously YMMV. However good news nonetheless. As I mentioned capital preservation is my primary. As for hunting only on 30 acres. I have a stand on my 10 acres of brush property and get plenty of use out of it in the brush country. I’m not expecting to live off of wild game. Just a bonus. southern pine areas are not going to ever give the single tree prices other have quoted. those are high value hardwood prices not something common |
|
Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: southern pine areas are not going to ever give the single tree prices other have quoted. those are high value hardwood prices not something common Originally Posted By Orion_Shall_Rise: Originally Posted By HuntFishGunCar: That’s all good to hear. I’m surprised 30 acres would net that much! Obviously YMMV. However good news nonetheless. As I mentioned capital preservation is my primary. As for hunting only on 30 acres. I have a stand on my 10 acres of brush property and get plenty of use out of it in the brush country. I’m not expecting to live off of wild game. Just a bonus. southern pine areas are not going to ever give the single tree prices other have quoted. those are high value hardwood prices not something common Yep. Here is the timber trends in tx. https://tfsweb.tamu.edu/forest-land/forest-industry-economics/timber-price-trends/ On 30 acres if it was all plantation pine the value would be roughly 2800 per acre if it’s all saw timber at $28 per ton. (Assuming 100tons per acre). If it was just natural pine it would probably be 80ton per acre so $2240 per acre. Now you need to take those figures and divide them by two to roughly figure the loggers cut at 50% (obviously this can fluctuate from 30-70% depending on many factors). Also the value of the timber (tonnage per acre) can fluctuate as well due to many factors (distance to mill, size, access etc). So approximately $1100-$1400 per acre is what you would get on a 50/50 deal. |
| You will severely limited in your timber goals on 30 acres. If you can find someone to cut it at all, it’ll be a 30 acre clear cut and 15 years before trees are big enough to do anything with. |
ProTip: Never pick a fight with a tree planter. He swings a hoedad for 9 hours a day, carries 30-40 pounds of seedlings on his back, and has 12-14 friends just like him hiding out on the other side of the junk butt pile. They will fuck your shit up.
|
Originally Posted By Tejas1836: I am speaking from my experiences with one of my best friends who has thousands of acres as you describe in Bowie county, log cabin, very nice lake and active timber production/harvesting. It is a lot of work and leaves behind a wasteland of a mess [stumps etc] that must be dealt with if it is anywhere near your living/recreational area. For that budget for a retirement site I would go for the nicest place one could afford and forget about forestry and make it a utopia for later. Stumps don’t need to be dealt with. You cut. You spray. The amigos come in the next winter and plant. |
ProTip: Never pick a fight with a tree planter. He swings a hoedad for 9 hours a day, carries 30-40 pounds of seedlings on his back, and has 12-14 friends just like him hiding out on the other side of the junk butt pile. They will fuck your shit up.
|
Originally Posted By Duck_Hunt: Yep. Here is the timber trends in tx. https://tfsweb.tamu.edu/forest-land/forest-industry-economics/timber-price-trends/ On 30 acres if it was all plantation pine the value would be roughly 2800 per acre if it’s all saw timber at $28 per ton. (Assuming 100tons per acre). If it was just natural pine it would probably be 80ton per acre so $2240 per acre. Now you need to take those figures and divide them by two to roughly figure the loggers cut at 50% (obviously this can fluctuate from 30-70% depending on many factors). So approximately $1100-$1400 per acre is what you would get on a 50/50 deal. Those are rookie numbers.  TWO2025-01 Guess vs Actual Volume by FredMan, on Flickr C9-2948 Volume Guess by FredMan, on FlickrJust earlier this month I cruised a stand that was pushing 356 tons/ac in spots. |
ProTip: Never pick a fight with a tree planter. He swings a hoedad for 9 hours a day, carries 30-40 pounds of seedlings on his back, and has 12-14 friends just like him hiding out on the other side of the junk butt pile. They will fuck your shit up.
|
Originally Posted By FredMan: Those are rookie numbers. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54723459958_eb25a04aa5_h.jpgTWO2025-01 Guess vs Actual Volume by FredMan, on Flickr https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54204641846_00617bb2b7_h.jpgC9-2948 Volume Guess by FredMan, on Flickr Just earlier this month I cruised a stand that was pushing 356 tons/ac in spots. I used those numbers above as googled averages for TX. Obviously the tonnage per acre could go up or down from those averages. Things are much different in other states. On a related note I know of a 90ac tract about an hour and a half from va that brought right at 12k per acre iirc. The owner made more off the timber than he bought the place for just a few years prior. |
|
Originally Posted By Mindless: 30 acres is insufficient for hunting/recreational ground. If the timber is good, It could pay off the land over 20 or 30 years. I owned a farm in KY that had about 170 acres of timber of a total 200 acres land. I logged it 3 times in 20 years and my half of the proceeds came to just shy of 130,000. Selective logging will not make the property look a waste land but there has to be enough prop[erty to begin with. If you spring for this 30 acres, use it as your "wonderland," or log it as investment property and be happy. Since when is 30 acres insufficient for hunting/recreation? |