Posted: 9/22/2025 12:37:07 PM EDT
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I am starting to look into suppressed and subsonic deer hunting, and what that would take. Ruger makes the american rifle in 450 bushmaster, and I'm seeing some hornady subsonic loads, that seem like they will perform out to 150ish yards. I'm not terribly interested in 300 blk for the job, but a heavy caliber like 450 seems to perform no matter what the speed is. I was just watching garandthumbs delisle carbine video, and I'm kind of thinking "modern delisle in 450" would be pretty fun and interesting. Hearing safe hunting would be neat. Does anyone have thoughts or experience? I'm thinking too that if it's going to be a dedicated subsonic rifle, sbr-ing it would be the next step. I'll likley have to handload for it at that point, but this isn't going to be a terribly high volume rifle anyway. In 450, the possibility of doing an AR is also there. But, a manual action like the ruger american would keep it quiet. A lever action 45-70 may also be a good cancidate, but sbr-ing it won't be as likely. I haven't seen any bolt action "pistols" in 450, but if I could find one, i may opt for that over the ruger. |
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Drop is about 4 inches at 50 yards. About 13 inches at 100 yards. About 4 feet at 200 yards. I've seen two deer killed with a .177 BB and 10 pumps from a Crosman at close range. Each dropped from a lung-shot within seconds. Not recommended. But to prove the point that delivering a penetrating projectile to the right location is shockingly effective. I wouldn't want to hunt deer on-purpose with subsonic unless I had excellent ability to estimate distance of the shot. If you are shooting them off your back porch, subsonic will really get it done. |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775
They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. - Benjamin Franklin, 1775
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Originally Posted By USMC2111: What distance are planning to hunt deer at? Around here it's heavily wooded, so 75 yards is usually the max unless you are hunting a farm field. I use 300 BLK with Hornady 190gr SubXs, and they do fine in the 75yd or less range. Very quiet suppressed. My area is much more open. The 308 isn't a poor choice at all, so I do have some thought to keeping range relatively long. But of course, this isn't my only gun, so I do have options. Weather this idea gets off the ground or not, it might just be a fun thought experiment. But there is some question about weather I should be shooting a 308 in more open areas. I'm very selective in my shots, but there's still the question. I see a lot of mixed reviews on 300blk. My one gripe is that the rifle and suppressor can become a bit of a compromise trying to do both sub and supersonic. I'd really like to set up a gun thats just dedicated subsonic from the start. And all else being equal, 400ish grain projectiles will do better than 190's going the same speed. Drop will be large, but i already have a range finder and ballistic reticle scopes. I'm not abundantly concerned about that right now. 8.6 blackout is interesting too, but it doesn't seem like anyone is actually making them yet. |
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The only issue with 300 BO is that most manufacturers just use regular rifle bullets vs. Hornaday and a couple of others purpose designed theirs to perform inside the subsonic envelope. Their 190 Sub-X is an absolute hammer on deer inside 100-150 yards. They also make a 135 gr supersonic load I haven’t shot a deer with but since it’s really just their old Single Shot Pistol bullet with a fancy new polymer tip I know it will work just fine since I used to shoot them on deer in the 90’s in an XP-100 chambered in 308 and with a king or neck, they were absolutely devestating. I also used them in a 30/39 Contender and a 30/30 Marlin (one in the chamber and one in the tube). In the XP I used the exact same load in IHMSA competition. That bigger bullet only makes a difference if you put it in the right place. From the way you describe your shots , you might be better off with a 308 and a can and regular ammo. It will still muffle tue shot to some extent. |
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: The only issue with 300 BO is that most manufacturers just use regular rifle bullets vs. Hornaday and a couple of others purpose designed theirs to perform inside the subsonic envelope. Their 190 Sub-X is an absolute hammer on deer inside 100-150 yards. They also make a 135 gr supersonic load I haven’t shot a deer with but since it’s really just their old Single Shot Pistol bullet with a fancy new polymer tip I know it will work just fine since I used to shoot them on deer in the 90’s in an XP-100 chambered in 308 and with a king or neck, they were absolutely devestating. I also used them in a 30/39 Contender and a 30/30 Marlin (one in the chamber and one in the tube). In the XP I used the exact same load in IHMSA competition. That bigger bullet only makes a difference if you put it in the right place. From the way you describe your shots , you might be better off with a 308 and a can and regular ammo. It will still muffle tue shot to some extent. I agree that I'm likely better off just sticking to what I have. But where's the fun in that? I just want an excuse to put a new rifle together. Thinking about the de lisle deer slayer is helping me get through my work day. Keeping the range up is certainly a goal, but being subsonic I'm trying to keep realistic expectations. It's not mandatory. But, maybe i will get one of these rossi brawlers to start the concept off for an ultra cheap 300blk setup and see how that does. I am surprised there isn't more experience with this idea though. I'd think with all the tactical 45-70's available, somebody would be experimenting with this idea on pigs. |
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Thoughts: I like power when shooting deer. It's not that it's absolutely necessary, just that I like a margin of error Subsonic means there's a velocity limitation. We can get power going faster. Therefore, it's necessary to go heavier. Period.. end of story... Heavier thumps harder at a given speed than lighter at the same speed. If you're at longer ranges ( 90, 100, 140 yards) there can be merit to a long streamlined projectile. It holds it velocity. Unfortunately, most bullets of this type don't open well, or if they do, don't penetrate well at reduced impact speeds. You've got a long, tumbling projectile that acts like a fmj, even if it isn't . It's not a fantastic recipe for solid, quick kills on a consistent basis. You've got one other option: treat it like oldschool handgun hunting, and use a big, wide , heavy hard cast bullet, preferably one with a wide flat nose, and sharp shoulders on the meplat...such a bullet penetrates well, even at modest speeds, and does not need expansion. It's a reliable, proven killer. If there's a downside, it's velocity loss at longer ranges... There really isn't a fantastic option that does it all. If it's subsonic, nothing has a flat trajectory, decent expansion, really good penetration, and excellent killing power. You can choose one or two of those characteristics, but subsonic means there are serious tradeoffs in other areas... Personally, I'd likely be opting for large diameter, hard cast, wide flat nose and then dealing with a self imposed range limitation. Given the above, there's little use in a pinch of powder inside a huge case. 45-70 could be made to work, but it's probably a pain in the ass. Arguably, a 45 Colt or 44 Mag is likely easier. |
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I got my deer last year with a 300 sub from Discreet Ballistics out of a Ruger American. Forty-two yards. I aimed a touch too high…I thought he was like 60 yards away. And he ran about 30 yards. I’m hoping to do it again this year with my 300 AR. Attached File |
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