Posted: 1/19/2026 7:43:33 AM EDT
[Last Edit: armoredman][Edited]
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Brace yourselves... I am older physically, but kinda new to being able to set up a BOB far, far better than when I was constantly broke, and my BOB consisted of a cheap backpack with CANNED goods in it, because I couldn't afford anything else. Any backpack, especially a Walmart special, becomes really heavy really fast with cans of SPAM and soup. So, after I bought my wife a KelTec P-17 for Christmas, so hopefully she will enjoy shooting with me more, I started to wonder about a handgun for the BOB...the ever-evolving BOB. Heck it wasn't that long ago I finally got a halfway decent fixed blade knife for the BOB! I still can't afford top tier, so the BOB is actually a Condor frameless backpack with an included water bladder. Skipping past what the ArfCom millionaires use, I was musing, what kind of backpack sidearm would be the best use of weight and space, literally the best bang for the pound? And by the way, I am not trying to "get anyone to subscribe to my newsletter", this is me genuinely asking questions and throwing out what I've been thinking to see what the better trained/better equipped/more experienced might have to say. A) What is the BOB sidearm really for? Is it primarily for self-defense against people/animals/reptiles/roving infestations of scabies? Do you visualize the BOB sidearm being the stunt double for your regular EDC in case you have to boogie on REALLY short notice? Do you picture it as a backup to your EDC, since EDC means, "everyday carry" and you should have it on you? In that case, what role does the BOB sidearm play? Hunting small game? Signaling for help? Shoot your partner in the knee to let you escape the bear? B) Once you picked a role, what TYPE of sidearm do you think would be best suited in that role? Semi autos carry larger amounts of ammo, and with polymer frames can be much lighter. Revolvers can be simpler to operate and allow the use of different projectiles at the same time, i.e., snake shot in the first chamber for Mr. No-Legs followed by JHP, followed by heavy cast hard ball, etc., if you do that type of things. revolvers have very limited ammo, reloading can be slower and carrying of reloads themselves can be bulkier...but do you envision this sidearm used in Mad Max, or lost in the woods, where multiple raving lunatics might not be the order of the day? Do you think the revolver really suffers in this regard in a survival scenario? C) When you decide on a role and a type of sidearm, what caliber? Semi-auto can be the same as your EDC for ammo compatibility but then it's just a BUG, no additional capabilities. 22lr allows for many different types of ammo, but all low powered compared to many others. Exotics can be fun, (looking at you, Keltec P5.7 ), with some interesting capabilities, but ammo might be expensive and hard to find, IF we have migrated all the way to a scavenging scenario...but that's kinda beyond the scope of what I am curious about. Advantage to the wheelgun such as the 357 Mag to use more than one round, and power level is really immaterial as long as the bullet ambles out the muzzle. D) Reliability. Most people seem to have BOBs setup for 72 hours, (how DO you ensure all your supplies run out in exactly 72 hours? Wizardry!), I think, but then again, going off popular media, and that seems to be the typical timeline. Inside 72 hours, rough guess, where you live, with whatever extreme weather you might have, (maybe the weather is why you are bugging out?), what have you discovered or think might be the most reliable sidearm in the BOB you could have? Modern semi autos from reputable manufacturers can be VERY reliable in all kinds of weather and situations. From what I am told, most revolvers can be more finicky in nasty weather and seemingly have many more and smaller moving parts. That doesn't mean a good solid single action six gun can't do the same job it did 150 years ago - the question is do you trust it? E) Once you answered all these questions in your mind, along with do I include a holster/spare ammo carrier, boxes of spare ammo, cleaning kit, etc., did you go buy a new one? Or did you grab something tried and true lube it up and stash it away? If I were to use what I have on hand, it would probably start with my Smith 64-3. Why? Because I don't own a DA revolver in .357. Stupid me, yes. It's on the to-do list.  Pros - I have it, stainless steel prevents rusting a little better, I can use different ammo as well as shotshells, because here in the desert, Mr. No-Legs is a constant worry. The 4 inch barrel is long enough for longer range shots if necessary, (stupid comment time, I really think a snub would be a terrible BOB gun, just me talkin'), and I know the gun well. Cons - compared to a lot of handguns, this baby is HEAVY all steel construction, limited ammo supply and reloads limited to speedloaders I would have to add to my belt, in case my EDC wasn't EDCing that day... Next would be a KelTec P-17 like the one I bought my wife. Yes, I am trying really hard not to write all this stuff just to justify buying a new gun...but it is stuff I needed to hash out anyway.  Pros/cons, we covered that already, plus I have to break it in and find the ammo it likes. But DAYUM is that thing light! Last option would be my backup cowboy gun, an Uberti Birds Head 357. Even more ammo availability, but slow to use and very slow to reload. Simpler mechanism, compared to the DA, if in a lost in the woods thing, not a good choice in Furiosa. But it is an extra I don't use daily, it's broken in, and a smith made sure she is sighted in for real shooting, not just 10 yard SASS style, and it's hard to find a sidearm that has been there/done that longer than the single action revolver.  So, all that useless wall of text rambling aside, ( it's late, I'm tired and I just can't sleep), what is your opinion on the BOB sidearm, would you use one, what do you like, why, and what area considerations did you use? feel free to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about - I don't. That's why I ask. No, I am not your "welcome fellow firearms enthusiast" guy, if you don't want to tell me what you actually use, don't, it's all good. I am just interested in your thoughts on the subject as BOB continues to evolve. Thank you for your time. |
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Myself, all of my "in case of emergency" guns are all the same make and caliber. This way ammo and mags are interchangeable. Even though my primary carry gun and nightstand gun are different, the ICOE are stupid-simple - all 9mm Glocks. I've also kind of turned on the way I see my BOB. Nowadays, I see it more as a "get home bag." Not many scenarios where leaving home is going to be the best/only option. |
Posterity! You will never know, how much it cost the present Generation, to preserve your Freedom! I hope you will make a good Use of it. If you do not, I shall repent in Heaven, that I ever took half the Pains to preserve it.---John Adams
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Can’t go wrong with a used revolver or a used Glock especially if the bag is going to be left cached somewhere. Ideally bought cash, face to face and something that you are not concerned with being lost or left behind if you have to ditch/cache it. Smallest format you can shoot and reload effectively. Just my .02 |
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That S&W is fine. My revolver of choice for this role is a 3” model 66. Look for some 38 +P 158gr SWCHP ammo. It was the FBI load for quite a few years. I’m not a ARFCOM millionaire but I do think ditching the finger groove rubber grips would be my first upgrade. Speed loaders??? 2 at least. |
Wake up Every Day and Try Harder.
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Originally Posted By drobs: Putting a space between each paragraph would make that wall of text more readable. Adjusted for your reading pleasure, sir. Sorry for the bother, please feel free to ignore it, and accept my apologies for wasting time. Thank you for your help! I really need to not post when really tired. No, no alcohol involved. |
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Originally Posted By Rudison: That S&W is fine. My revolver of choice for this role is a 3” model 66. Look for some 38 +P 158gr SWCHP ammo. It was the FBI load for quite a few years. I’m not a ARFCOM millionaire but I do think ditching the finger groove rubber grips would be my first upgrade. Speed loaders??? 2 at least. I would love a 3 inch, but this is what I have. Just out of curiosity, why get rid of the grips? Just curious. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: A) What is the BOB sidearm really for? B) Once you picked a role, what TYPE of sidearm do you think would be best suited in that role? C) When you decide on a role and a type of sidearm, what caliber? D) Reliability. E) Once you answered all these questions in your mind, along with do I include a holster/spare ammo carrier, boxes of spare ammo, cleaning kit, etc., did you go buy a new one? Or did you grab something tried and true lube it up and stash it away? So, all that useless wall of text rambling aside, ( it's late, I'm tired and I just can't sleep), what is your opinion on the BOB sidearm, would you use one, what do you like, why, and what area considerations did you use? feel free to tell me I don't know what I'm talking about - I don't. That's why I ask. These are legitimate questions. As mentioned, I’m more focused on a get-home-bag, but the same considerations apply. The biggest challenge for many is if it’s a dedicated GHB/BOB firearm, is there any risk at leaving it unattended, but that’s for another discussion? I read an article from Creek Stewart (he does those Weather Channel survival shows). His choice of a GHB/BOB gun was a .357 short-barrel revolver. His reasoning was sound for his requirements. That’s made me consider a lightweight revolver at times. I honestly don’t consider the caliber for something I can scavenge or for “battlefield pickup”. Sure, it would always be a consideration as opportunities arise, but there’s an 87% chance the only ammo you’ll have is what you’re carrying with you…what you carry is what you plan for. Hopeful-logistics planning is planning to fail. I can’t CCW at work and where I work puts some risk as to what I can keep in my truck. It’s secure, just elevated risk and potential loss of clearance, job, incarceration…you know, the normal concerns of exercising your 2A rights in some occupations. My primary CCW is mostly a P365/X/XL platform with some Glock 19 swaps in for certain activities. I have a Glock 43 that I actually do like (just like P365 capacity better), so that’s my current “Truck Gun” for my get-home-system. (I won’t mention the M92 PAP AK pistol with folding brace and suppressor stashed in the specialized compartment of the Eberlestock Gunslinger G2 pack…). Now, if I’m traveling out of town, I prefer a .22LR pistol. I may get stuck somewhere and have to scavenge and I’m a big proponent of the .22LR pistol (w/ Optic, suppressed, & WML) as a survival handgun. I would still have my CCW and a PCC/Rifle-caliber pistol, but a Taurus TX22 Compact and a couple hundred rounds would go a long way if I needed to put down an overly aggressive dog or bag some nocturnal critter for the cook pot. It’s all hypothetical, but it integrates well with my kit and the weight penalty is minimal for the value. A) Primary purpose would be self-defense; secondary (especially if traveling to/through less populated areas) would be small game hunting or noisy/pest eradication. B) Quite honestly, whatever you’re comfortable with as long as you can conceal it and have it immediately accessible when you need it. For me, it’s either my normal CCW (P365X) or plussed-up CCW (G19); both 9mm. Even if I had a suppressed .22LR, it would be secondary to my CCW/defensive handgun. I do like 9mm revolvers, but after reminiscing of that article from Creek Stewart, I have recently picked up a Taurus Model 692 (yeah, I like to live on the wild side!). The concept is brilliant. A 3” barrel, quick-swap cylinders. One for .357/.38, the other for 9mm (will also shoot .380 in a pinch), cut for moon clips. It’s actually been a very reliable revolver and accurate with all three calibers. It’s a very versatile option (if you can trust a Taurus firearm!). C) My choice is pretty evident. Primary would be a 9mm semi-auto. With the mission to simply “Get Home”, I’m not looking for trouble, I plan to limit the need to scavenge. I plan to limit the need for hunting (fish is an easier food source in my area). Yes it would have an optic and yes it would have a WML. I almost always have one spare magazine on me, but keep a keep a few spares and small box of ammo in my pack. D. Reliability is really a very small factor with just about any reputable modern firearms manufacturer. As long as you’ve tested a couple hundred rounds to confirm the firearm doesn’t have a faulty MIM part and you keep it maintained, it’s going to shoot 99.9 times out of a 100. E. Accessories. A good holster. I carry predominantly AIWB. The challenge is that location sucks when carrying a heavy pack with waist belt, so having a separate system is a big consideration. I’ve used a fanny pack (setup for my G43) or a HPG Kit Bag which both allow me to carry and access when wearing a pack. If the pack is smaller and (and less than 30lbs), I can get away with not needing a waist belt, but “trekking” with anything building around your waist and pockets really sucks. No less than five magazines (carry a 14-rd mag, spare 14, and three 17-rd mags) along with a 50-rd box of ammo. One spare mag is set up for pocket or belt carry. I can put the other three on my belt or I have a dedicated belt carry for three 17-rd mags. Cleaning kit doesn’t have to be big. Either a bore-snake or collapsible patch rod, dozen patches, toothbrush head (that fits the patch rod), and a small bottle of oil. Don’t forget an extra battery for the optic and couple extra batteries for your WML. Again, it really depends on your bugout or bug home plans, your location/population density, terrain; those requirements will impact your decisions someone. It’s not rocket science and if you already CCW, that’s your gun (just with spare mags, ammo, cleaning kit in your pack). Concealment is critical and access must be immediate. If you haven’t already “trekked” with it, do so to find out what carry system works or doesn’t work. Good topic. ROCK6 |
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
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I completely agree I missed the huge difference between the get-home bag and the Bug Out Bag. I was speaking mostly about the latter, and there are situations which might necessitate it's use other than war or alien invasion - we live next to railroad tracks, and the good folks in Palestine, OH, can attest to how fast a derailment can force an evacuation. I also have emergency breathing apparatus in case that happens, so we might have a few extra seconds to grab "stuff". Yes, my wife thinks I am thoroughly nuts. I actually can completely commiserate about the work restrictions, no weapons of any kind on my person or in vehicles, including knives...except we have a secure storage locker on the way in/out I can use, setup exactly for the purpose of stashing the off duty sidearm. Inside the wire, if I need a firearm, I check one out of the Armory. Lotsa paperwork afterwards, though. But I am afforded a spot to lock up my loaded sidearm and spare mags, where I can retreive them on the way out with minimal fuss, and it's constantly monitored by both an armed staff member and video recording. One recent change was the policy change to eliminate the amount of ammo I can bring with - used to be enough to fill three magazines plus one round. Now it's whatever you can fit in the locker. Might toss a few more mags in there...just because... My work bag is my get-home bag, essentially a much smaller version of the Condor backback I have, including a hydration pouch in the back, should be enough with a few included goodies and Coast guard style rations and my medical pouch I use at work...well, carry, I hope to never use it. I like the idea of a 3 inch magnum, but finding one I trust, (hate the Hillary Hole, and I only like the Smith style cylinder release - picky, ain't I?), at a price point I like. The 4 inch M64-3 was "right time, right place" with a good friend. But I can keep looking.  |
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For the "Oh look, squirrel" crowd, I wouldn't feel bad if the Model 64 was what I had. Just be proficient with it and carry good ammo. Being in shape and knowing your gear works is far more important than having a ton of Gucci gear that you've never tried. First thing I'd do though is a thorough area study and see what your potential threats are both where you are and along your potential routes of travel. It sounds like you've done that to at least some extent by recognizing the hazards of living near train tracks, just make sure you have the proper filters for the threat and remember the filters have a life expectancy, especially once opened. They are for respiratory threats so you may need additional PPE. One day when you're bored go sit near the tracks and write down the numbers on the placarding on the train cars then use the DOT book to look them up. Most people have no idea what moves across our roads and tracks on a daily basis. You're area study will also give you an idea of potential other hazards including various manufacturing plants that may have hazardous chemicals or fire/explosive threats, etc. as well as water sources and potential contamination, neighborhoods you must or should avoid, etc. If you need help with that Mike Shelby from Forward Observer youtube channel has a book available that covers this. His channel has daily updates on domestic and foreign current events and he offers more info on his paid site (I'm not subscribed to it and have never seen it to say whether it's worthwhile or not). S2 Underground usually has brief daily sitreps, including urgent notes as well as longer form coverage at least once a week. Nothing wrong with the .38 as long as you shoot it well and have good loads for it, the 64 will handle heavy .38 +Ps if you think you need them; Buffalo Bore's ".38 +P Outdoorsman" is 158gr at ~1100fps which used to be a common .38 load (original .38 loads were hotter than most of what is commercially sold today; looking at old reloading manuals is always interesting). It's not like there's a need to shoot hot loads often though, even if you live in brown bear or moose country; even then you're more likely to run across stay dogs, two and four legged, and good modern loads will realistically handle those. Toss a good holster that works with your pack and a handful of speedloaders along with a pouch to carry a couple of them in your bag and call it good, you're not looking to get into a gunfight. I'm with Rock in that if I'm going to carry a second handgun, it's most likely going to be a tested, lightweight .22 with suppressor and a handful of spare mags and for the same reasons, I want to be quiet and avoid threats to the best of my ability. IIRC, the KT comes threaded for an adapter to add a suppressor, with $0 stamps I'd pick up an inexpensive .22 can for it. An expensive can should be better and will have more options, but realistically, in my experience with .22 suppressors, most simple direct thread .22 suppressors are pretty similar with subsonic ammo and you can hold your thumb over the slide to make it a little quieter and adding a few drops of water if the manufacturer says it's OK will help with first round pop. If making noise seems prudent for some reason, shoot it unsuppressed, very few people on the muzzle end are going to hear a few fast shots from a .22 and take the time to think, oh, that's just a .22, I'll just keep advancing, especially when medical care/emergency services isn't going to be readily available. It's still obviously gunshots and on the other end they're louder. If you want to change to a semiauto main handgun and your budget is tight you can always sell the S&W and while it'd be a real shame, they're great guns and bring good money these days. You could buy something like a SAR or other budget 9mm that gets good reviews like the Taurus G3 series and a handful of magazines and have money left over. I've never shot either of those but they get good reviews and there are people here who own and carry them and places like PSA have the SARs for under $200 and the Taurus guns for not much more including some package deals that come with extra mags, holsters, etc. As far as the pack, I'd be more worried about having one that I can actually carry the potential distance and I'd practice with it. Most people have packs but they never carry them anywhere, especially with any actual weight and they're not set up practically, and like any other activity, it takes different muscles and while being in good overall shape definitely helps, carrying a pack is going to be uncomfortable if you're not used it. Few people are used to anything more than a small daypack with a laptop. Start rucking if you don't already, even if it's just around your neighborhood. You'll quickly find out whether your pack is actually usable and I don't mean just comfortable but is it going to hold up or fall apart (seam stitching failing or the straps tearing off is common with cheaper packs and even some expensive big name ones). You'll be training your body overall plus the specific muscles involved with carrying weight on your back including improving your balance; hiking/trekking staffs can be a Godsend. You can buy all sort of expensive Goruck packs and plates and you can find less expensive options on Amazon, especially for plates (watch for sales). If you don't want to spend that then you can go cheap and simple and make sandbag "pills". Go to your local Home Depot or Lowe's, buy a 50# bag of play sand for $5. Take it home, put it on a tarp and cut it into two sections, 1/3 and 2/3, then weigh out your sand. I do 10# in the smaller side and 20# in the other and that leaves enough of the thick plastic packaging to fold over and wrap securely with duct tape (the remaining sand can just be scattered in the yard). Now I have a 10# and a 20# weight that I can wrap in a towel and add to my pack to vary the load. Carry whatever your preferred NSAID is, you will be more sore than you expect, especially if you have to sleep along the way. If you don't have a way to secure your bag in your vehicle or want extra protection, Pacsafe makes wire mesh bags to wrap around and lock your bag. They also sell bags with the mesh built in which are a nicer option if you travel. They're not going to stop someone with the right tools, but it should stop a smash and grab. I've got two of the older style from before they started making complete bags that I used to carry traveling (they used to make a smaller daypack size and another that fits my backpack); I can't say whether they worked or not as I've never had anyone try to steal my pack to the best of my knowledge. https://pacsafe.com/collections/portable-safes-bag-protectors Make sure you have comfortable walking shoes, change of socks, etc, the usual stuff adjusted for potential weather. That stuff has all been well covered so no point in going over it, just find what works for you. The lighter the better as it'll allow you to move faster further, especially as we age and/or have to cover more ground. I'd look for something lighter and more compact than cans, Mountain House for example is supposed to last about thirty years so not like you're going to be buying much of it; buy several varieties, pick the ones you actually don't mind eating since some of them are nasty (beware, most of them are loaded with sodium if that's a health concern and they require water to rehydrate so make sure you carry enough water and a way to procure more). If you live in area where you won't be able to procure water, i.e. near a manufacturing plant that's contaminated the local streams with stuff your filter or tablets won't remove (you have done an area study right) you may have to carry some form of MRE/canned food to preserve your water. Above all you need to do your area study, stay aware of current situations and make the decision to go before others do. Your vehicle is still your best bet, it's much faster, can carry more gear (especially heavy items like extra water), it's typically safer, can provide shelter, etc. and as long as you don't get stuck in the rush, you'll be in far better shape than most- a good example is to look at hurricane evacs and what the highways have historically looked like. Using I-26 in SC as an example (because it's the one I'm most familiar with), the eastbound lanes (headed towards Charleston) will be changed to westbound to increase evacuation speed. It still becomes a mess with cars overheating and breaking down, running out of gas because people don't keep their cars fueled and don't have spare fuel on hand. My parents always preached vehicle PM and almost never let their tanks get below half full and they always had at least five gallons stored in travel safe cans. I do the same (with more fuel on hand for the generator and tools, some premixed, but cans of two stroke oil on hand to make more). At the first warning of potential problems they'd top off the tanks to avoid lines and outages and have things prepped and ready to be loaded into the cars and leaving for other relatives houses. Typical southern extended family across the local states that helped each other out, but that's changed a lot in just my lifetime. |
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My approach to such events has evolved to: "what has actually happened" and "if I had to bug out, what would that look like?" What has actually happened is: natural disasters disrupting people's lives. Lower 48 suburban CONUS folks being unhoused (homes flooded, hurricanes, washouts, etc) and moved to FEMA type shelters. In these scenarios, security was never an issue but any concealed handgun is added peace of mind. Also in this scenario: everyday Americans losing power for weeks (Sandy, Katrina, etc) and bunkering down/staying home. Either way, both of these scenarios have occurred in the last 20 years and for the most part, firearms didn't play a huge role. Having any gun was much more advantageous than no gun. Carry what you have and conceal it well. Regarding actually bugging out: I'm not aware of anyone in the United States ever needing to "bug out". Evacuation to shelter, sure, but I'm not aware of anyone needing folding saws to play Jeremiah Johnson. If extreme societal breakdown occurs, I'm probably already screwed, IMO. |
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Originally Posted By sandboxmedic:
For the "Oh look, squirrel" crowd, I wouldn't feel bad if the Model 64 was what I had. Just be proficient with it and carry good ammo. Being in shape and knowing your gear works is far more important than having a ton of Gucci gear that you've never tried. Totally agree, and my gear is ANYTHING but Gucci! First thing I'd do though is a thorough area study and see what your potential threats are both where you are and along your potential routes of travel. It sounds like you've done that to at least some extent by recognizing the hazards of living near train tracks, just make sure you have the proper filters for the threat and remember the filters have a life expectancy, especially once opened. They are for respiratory threats so you may need additional PPE. One day when you're bored go sit near the tracks and write down the numbers on the placarding on the train cars then use the DOT book to look them up. Most people have no idea what moves across our roads and tracks on a daily basis. You're area study will also give you an idea of potential other hazards including various manufacturing plants that may have hazardous chemicals or fire/explosive threats, etc. as well as water sources and potential contamination, neighborhoods you must or should avoid, etc..... We have a natural gas power plant about three miles away, and a sewage treatment plant about double that, same direction. We are in a good neighborhood at the moment, closest neighbor is 75 yards away and that's my mother in law. And the worthless tub of rancid suet that is my sister in law. If something goes seriously wrong, SHE is the real fly in the ointment. The EBAs we have aren't the best, but they should do for a short time. I looked up what real gas masks cost, especially ones with fitted glasses inside, and hoo boy, my check don't stretch that far! Nothing wrong with the .38 as long as you shoot it well and have good loads for it, the 64 will handle heavy .38 +Ps if you think you need them... Toss a good holster that works with your pack and a handful of speedloaders along with a pouch to carry a couple of them in your bag and call it good, you're not looking to get into a gunfight. I have shot this wheelgun extensively, it is accurate and reliable, and I've been casting/reloading 38 Special for years. Ammo I have, and speedloaders. 
 I'm with Rock in that if I'm going to carry a second handgun, it's most likely going to be a tested, lightweight .22 with suppressor and a handful of spare mags and for the same reasons... That was why the KelTec P-17 came to mind - it comes threaded. But a semi-decent 'can would cost double what the gun cost. Nice they come with 3 mags though, fully loaded that would be 49 rounds right there. If you want to change to a semiauto main handgun and your budget is tight you can always sell the S&W and while it'd be a real shame, they're great guns and bring good money these days... No worries, I have other guns, these are the ones I know, trust, and don't really use much so stashing them in a pack wouldn't be a problem. I have others I shoot much more often nowadays, (gonna be gelatin testing 38SW ammo in a 1942 Victory Model next month), but if I had to put a plastic fantastic in there, I could, I was using these also as examples of what the average Joe might have laying about. As far as the pack, I'd be more worried about having one that I can actually carry the potential distance and I'd practice with it. Most people have packs but they never carry them anywhere, especially with any actual weight and they're not set up practically, and like any other activity, it takes different muscles and while being in good overall shape definitely helps, carrying a pack is going to be uncomfortable if you're not used it. Few people are used to anything more than a small daypack with a laptop. Start rucking if you don't already, even if it's just around your neighborhood. You'll quickly find out whether your pack is actually usable and I don't mean just comfortable but is it going to hold up or fall apart (seam stitching failing or the straps tearing off is common with cheaper packs and even some expensive big name ones). You'll be training your body overall plus the specific muscles involved with carrying weight on your back including improving your balance; hiking/trekking staffs can be a Godsend... I agree, but rucking around my neighborhood would draw what we call "negative attention" for local LE and our retired communities next door. However, it still is an excellent idea and this pack is NOT an expensive item at all... Make sure you have comfortable walking shoes, change of socks, etc, the usual stuff adjusted for potential weather. That stuff has all been well covered so no point in going over it, just find what works for you. Covered, but thanks for the reminder. The lighter the better as it'll allow you to move faster further, especially as we age and/or have to cover more ground. I'd look for something lighter and more compact than cans, Mountain House for example is supposed to last about thirty years so not like you're going to be buying much of it; buy several varieties, pick the ones you actually don't mind eating since some of them are nasty (beware, most of them are loaded with sodium if that's a health concern and they require water to rehydrate so make sure you carry enough water and a way to procure more). If you live in area where you won't be able to procure water, i.e. near a manufacturing plant that's contaminated the local streams with stuff your filter or tablets won't remove (you have done an area study right) you may have to carry some form of MRE/canned food to preserve your water. I ditched the cans a long time ago, mostly Mountain House and Peak Refuel stuff in there now. Cans went into the pantry then into the stomach a long time ago. In the house I have Ready Hour stuff - did you see my thread about taste testing a bunch of that stuff? Above all you need to do your area study, stay aware of current situations and make the decision to go before others do. Your vehicle is still your best bet, it's much faster, can carry more gear (especially heavy items like extra water), it's typically safer, can provide shelter, etc. and as long as you don't get stuck in the rush, you'll be in far better shape than most- a good example is to look at hurricane evacs and what the highways have historically looked like.... My parents always preached vehicle PM and almost never let their tanks get below half full and they always had at least five gallons stored in travel safe cans. Ditto, tanks is never below half in any vehicle, was hard getting my wife on board with that, but we have that done. We do regular maintenance with reputable mechanics. This being the desert, we have several gallons of spare water in each vehicle. And also...302w My approach to such events has evolved to: "what has actually happened" and "if I had to bug out, what would that look like?" What has actually happened is: natural disasters disrupting people's lives. Lower 48 suburban CONUS folks being unhoused (homes flooded, hurricanes, washouts, etc) and moved to FEMA type shelters. In these scenarios, security was never an issue but any concealed handgun is added peace of mind. Also in this scenario: everyday Americans losing power for weeks (Sandy, Katrina, etc) and bunkering down/staying home. Either way, both of these scenarios have occurred in the last 20 years and for the most part, firearms didn't play a huge role. Having any gun was much more advantageous than no gun. Carry what you have and conceal it well. Regarding actually bugging out: I'm not aware of anyone in the United States ever needing to "bug out". Evacuation to shelter, sure, but I'm not aware of anyone needing folding saws to play Jeremiah Johnson. If extreme societal breakdown occurs, I'm probably already screwed, IMO. I do agree, and the equipment can be set UP for Katy, Bar The Door, but also useful if we have to bail out while the haz mat crews clean out the leaking chlorine tanks on the rails, (far more likely), and well, the power plant blowing up probably won't be nice to us, though, but it's a newer plant, well built and actually decently guarded too. Pretty low on the horizon of Bad Events Possible. I also don't have a folding saw in the BOB...might be a wire saw in there, not sure, but because I started setting things up with my ex in a different won with no real idea of what I needed. The wife and Da Boy also have their own packs setup, though the wife's seems to be more clothes...hmm... I thank everyone here for some great ideas, thank you very much! |
) curve ball, but the 692 has a really easy cylinder swap system between 357/38 and 9mm. A Blue Force Gear "booboo" pouch will hold the extra cylinder and 35 rounds of moon-clipped 9mm. I've got about 150 various .357/38SPL and about 250+rounds of crappy 9mm ammo though this thing without any issues. Yes, the .357 is the better round, but doing speed reloads with the 9mm full moon clips is stupid fast (just don't lose your moon clips!).
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
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For me I have king abandoned the idea of having a rifle in my get home gear. Far too much weight and bill for the trade off of having a rifle. Being that I shit IHMSA at a high level for PVW r a decade I know well what a handgun can do at 200 yards and beyond. With the advent of RDS sights it requires far less skill than it used to be with just iron sights. I have chosen the following, YMMV. G19 with a flat faced trigger and all of the guts have been replaced with tool steel guts that have all be NP3 coated and an NPE .- connector. Match grade barrel and a Dark Alley comp and a Trijicon RMR RDS on top. Carry mag is a stick 15 Roy der and 4 24 rounders in the bag in si glenmag carriers along with a 50 round box of defensive ammo. I also carry a 17 rounder on my belt. In the bag is a Ruger MK 3 light weight with a Vortex RDS and a couple of spare mags along with a spare 100 round box of subsonic ammo. All the ammo in the mags are subsonics. There is also a Dead Air Mask in the bag. |
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Our community is in a constant tension between volume, weight, accessibility and variety of capabilities which is why philosophy of use, task and purpose is necessary to drive the decisions. A survival kit is often optimized for small volume (have it with you) and variety of capabilities; it can be packed to the gills, with tons of useful items carefully arranged to fit the space constraint, to the point where the contents are actually challenging to access easily and quickly. That's a tradeoff people tend to make though because we don't envision having to utilize them often, so sacrificing ease of access for packing density is fine. On the other hand, what one might call a "possibles kit" will be full of items you know you're likely going to need easy access to readily -- bug spray, sunscreen, hand sanitizer, multitool, whatever it may be you need to be able to pause, grab the thing, use it and put it back multiple times potentially. So fewer items but more accessible. The analogy extends to firearms in the bag. For a given bag, say a typical backpack, you can certainly have a whole chest rig and AR pistol folded up in there if you want, but the cost is that it takes up so much of the bag you're not going to be using it for much else. You might opt for a braced pistol or small TP9 like firearm and have more volume available for other things. All depends on your needs and use case. While I have "bag guns" in the .300 blackout and AK pistol variety, these do essentially dominate the bag especially when you start considering ancillary items (extra magazine placard, micro chest rig that sort of thing) and so I consider them more discreet transport bags than something I'm actually going to be primarily using in any sort of bug out scenario. The truth is you're far more likely to be broken down someplace or in a wreck and need to take custody/secure the firearm so that your vehicle can be towed than you are to ever actually need the firearm, so much so that it doesn't make sense IMO to edc this class of firearm. Only if things have popped off with regards to WROL would I consider such things, otherwise they're a major hassle. We are far more likely to be in weird, in between grey area times and for such situations I think a braced pistol or TP9 sized firearm makes the most sense. Likewise, if you're a frequent traveler, are you going to have the bag on you at ALL times? Probably no. In which case, a small backup gun might make the most sense to complement your EDC CCW. Something like an LCP or NAA, so that if you needed to you could carry both on your person without too much hassle and the advantage is that now you have a small option for non-permissive environments. I agree that "get home bag" and "bug out bag" are likely two different use cases even if they both overlap significantly. For a get home bag, I'm probably going to be going for a plussed up CCW approach to compliment my EDC (which tends to be a subcompact like a 365 or LCP). Specifically, something like a braced handgun (raider 365 or similar) because it's night and day better than a full sized handgun while being essentially the same size and weight, taking up very little space in the bag and it can transition easily to AIWB if I need to leave the bag somewhere. It gives me about 100 yards of reach and skyrockets hit confidence at more typical distances. It has a 6" barrel (longer than an MP5k), it can be employed quickly and stowed just as quickly, and would be just as handy out on the trail as it would be traversing a city embroiled in chaos trying to get to family, where the rule of law exists (or not) and police are responding (or not) depending sometimes on what block you happen to be crossing at the time. This is what I usually prefer in an "EDC" like bag if I'm traveling out of town also, and it still leaves me room for other important items (power bank, water, snacks, IFAK, etc) Another option to compliment one's EDC might be a braced .22 LR (ideally suppressed) handgun because this combines the compact size of a .22 handgun with some advantages of a .22 rifle with regards to stability and accuracy. |
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My get home bag is MUCH more constrained, due to work regulations about what can and can't be brought on the complex. However, I will have my sidearm and spare ammo, so that is taken care of. I am in shape, round IS a shape...ok, seriously, yes, fat, trying to fix that. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: My get home bag is MUCH more constrained, due to work regulations about what can and can't be brought on the complex. However, I will have my sidearm and spare ammo, so that is taken care of. I am in shape, round IS a shape...ok, seriously, yes, fat, trying to fix that. I think this applies to just about all of us. Getting or keeping our fat ass in shape can be a challenge, but it is a key part of everyone’s preparations. That also includes understanding your own limitations. I can no longer carry those 90+pound packs for 10-12 miles. I know that even with a lightweight backpacking pack of 30-35 pounds it takes me a few short days to actually work up to 15 miles a day. But that’s backpacking. This is a constant evolution and refinement, matching reality to your fiscal fitness and health. My “combat” load is now down to about 90-rounds, but I’m not looking to get into a fight or sustain a combat operation anymore these days. Minimalist isn’t because you’re getting old and out of shape, it’s adapting to the realities necessary to keep you alive and avoid the fights unless you’re initiating them on your terms. ROCK6 |
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
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BOB is perfect for a Glock 19/17/26. Grab a kydex holster and a few spare mags and it's not something that you will need to worry about rusting or tarnishing. 9mm ammo works just as well as .38spl and you carry more of it. The G19 with a WML is going to cover 95% of what you need. Grab a police trade in. Shoot a few hundred rounds through it to verify sight picture, extractor reliability and wipe it down with CLP, load up the mags and store it in you BOB. Done. Good luck! 
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"Governments may think and say as they like, but force cannot be eliminated, and it is the only real and unanswerable power."
-- Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
-- Lieutenant General Sir Adrian Carton de Wiart
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Late to the party my my battle belt is next to my BOB. My BOB has a.few.spare mags.and barrel swaps. Ie, carry a .40 - have a .357sig barrel (same mags) and 9mm barrel and 2 mags. Yeah, battlefield pickups are silly, but my truck usually has random ammo stashed from range trips that I don't clean out all the time. |
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Interesting idea. 40 and 357 SIG are pretty uncommon around here, though, and I have to be much more careful about random ammo in my car nowadays, since it's subject to random searches at work. Yes, it's perfectly legal and logical. I am evaluating several options, including my wonderful Star 30M, (no spare parts, magazines are very hard to find, and very expensive, darn thing weighs as much as a train engine, probably NOT the best choice), and a few others. Who knows, maybe I'll break down and buy my first Glock...maybe... |
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It's a rare if I don't have my edc sidearm on my hip & two extra mags on other hip, Along with several extra mags & ammo to reload all of them in truck or bike. Course if I'm in truck then it's got a bob with some food, water container, bandages, zipties, paracord, bino's, compass, extra ammo for the edc truck gun. |
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I would say whatever your wife can shoot well and with a holster in case it needs to go to active status. Spare ammo in a partitioned plastic box (add a bit of thin foam or fabric to keep the ammo from rattling around when you move, OPSEC) in case you get wet because cardboard boxes don't hold together that well. I am more concerned with water, here in the Valley of the Sun I can go a few days without food but not water, so a camelback type backpack is handy. Sidebar - I would also carry to my job where guns were prohibited, getting there a little early allowed me to park just outside the smoking area, which was always busy thus reducing the risk of a break in plus a small cable type lockbox n the vehicle. Although the no weapons policy didn't stop the felon DEI hire from bringing in a bat and beating a co-worker to death. |
Think of how stupid the average person is and realize half of them are stupider than that.
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Our "no guns" policy is a bit more extreme, including the right of my employer to search everything I have on premises at any time. OTOH, they do provide a gun locker out front where I can secure my sidearm and spare mags under lock and key with both visual and camera surveillance, and they recently changed the rules to where I can have as many spare mags as I want... And, the whole place DOES have armed security, and if I want a gun at work...I just check one out. So I can have one sidearm with me, but no rifles, shotguns or "large format" pistols, (AR style, etc.) as they won't fit the lock boxes. However, I cannot carry a full BOB in the vehicle, my work backpack is an ersatz one, which does include a hydration bladder, because a permanent car BOB would be considered "escape material"...bad juju. As of right now, the BOB would simply be light hand luggage full of essentials we can grab in a massive hurry, same as our ReadyHour Fire and SMoke Evacuation Masks, hopefully give enough protection to grab gear and unass the area if we have a train derail with a hazmat leak/heavy smoke near us, that type of event - it's the best I can afford right now. So the plan is to have these things ready to go, and guarantee that there is a defensive sidearm in the bag if, for instance, the wife has to di di mau out of the shower or bed. Edit to add, the BOBs do have integrated hydration bladders, and canteens are available. If we have to boogie fast, there is water the car to fill said water bladders/canteens on the trip, if we can't do it before we leave. |
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Originally Posted By armoredman: Our "no guns" policy is a bit more extreme, including the right of my employer to search everything I have on premises at any time. OTOH, they do provide a gun locker out front where I can secure my sidearm and spare mags under lock and key with both visual and camera surveillance, and they recently changed the rules to where I can have as many spare mags as I want... And, the whole place DOES have armed security, and if I want a gun at work...I just check one out. So I can have one sidearm with me, but no rifles, shotguns or "large format" pistols, (AR style, etc.) as they won't fit the lock boxes. However, I cannot carry a full BOB in the vehicle, my work backpack is an ersatz one, which does include a hydration bladder, because a permanent car BOB would be considered "escape material"...bad juju. As of right now, the BOB would simply be light hand luggage full of essentials we can grab in a massive hurry, same as our ReadyHour Fire and SMoke Evacuation Masks, hopefully give enough protection to grab gear and unass the area if we have a train derail with a hazmat leak/heavy smoke near us, that type of event - it's the best I can afford right now. So the plan is to have these things ready to go, and guarantee that there is a defensive sidearm in the bag if, for instance, the wife has to di di mau out of the shower or bed. Edit to add, the BOBs do have integrated hydration bladders, and canteens are available. If we have to boogie fast, there is water the car to fill said water bladders/canteens on the trip, if we can't do it before we leave. Do you work at a Prison? |
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A PSA Dagger and a few extra mags. It's inexpensive, has mostly had it's inner workings replaced with OEM Glock stuff. It's been a solid shooter for a few years and a few cases of ammo. It's primarily there in case I need to arm someone else (close friend or family). Simple Kydex holster carries it. Doesn't even have a light on it. I'm trying to avoid the slippery slope on gear these days. It becomes too easy to over analyze gear and wind up spending a small fortune on extra weight. All of my ammo is premium duty level ammunition (EDC/BOB/HD/SD). Rifle, pistol, or shotgun. I'll not be carrying practice ammo when game day suddenly appears. |
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This is what I'd use. Assuming I already had a sig p365 as my EDC anyway. 9mm all the things that aren't rifle caliber. Attached File Attached File That said when covid was ramping up we also got hit by an earthquake in Utah in March of 2020 and it kind of felt like the whole world was falling apart. I decided I needed more firepower that I could keep in a backpack. Enter the sig rattler . It folds up really small and packs a punch with 30+ rounds of supers. Attached File |