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Posted: 5/21/2025 8:59:32 PM EDT
| So say some economic collapse, prolonged national power outage, or zombies. People will resort to bartering? What are your thoughts on this. Thanks |
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just off the top of my head, probably won't work overall. People all around you have all the same stuff. I think the chances that someone has what you need and vice-versa are kinda small (the reason money was invented) Probably the only barter would probably be goods repaid in 'services' |
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100%? What else can people do? Even transactions using silver coins will be closer to bartering goods for silver than paying money for goods as they won't be starting with a price of x silver quarters for this amount of flour, but will be bartering the amount of silver coins for so much flour and the skill of the two people at bartering will partially determine what is finally paid. |
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If currency access is an issue, barter will be the next step. Even if currency is available, barter is still a thing. Happens all over the country and the best part….there is no way to tax it. |
"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
| I would think if the US dollar became "worthless" meaning that the average person no no longer viewed it a means of stable storage of wealth/value that the odds are high that people would resort to barter, after all, what is the alternative? All it would take is people loosing faith in the government backing it. Perhaps they may use a locally produced currency, or something else that has general perceived value among the population. Labor, fuel, food, tobacco, alcohol, clean water, precious metals, etc. Anything that has value can be traded, money just makes it a more efficient process. If money has no perceived value, something else will take its place. This could easily vary based on the local circumstances. |
It's true no matter who you are, the worst thing you can do for someone is give them something for nothing. - 3rdpig
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
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Barter worked pretty well here during the aftermath of Hurricane Helene. No electricity for weeks. Lots of people needed coffee and whiskey. I had plenty of those things and was able to trade for gasoline and bar oil. They say cash is king but when all the stores are closed and/or destroyed cash is kind of useless. |
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Originally Posted By Alpinist: I think barter with neighbors/ friends, etc is super likely in a prolonged emergency. Someone mentioned silver. Personally, I don’t believe in the utility of silver and gold as a desirable trade item over cash in a prolonged emergency I agree with you on gold. Silver has multiple industrial uses and can be used for water decontamination. |
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life." - Robert A. Heinlein
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Originally Posted By protus: Lmao. Yup... 2 cans of Tuna for the radioactive Rolex please  That's a reference I haven't seen in a long time. More on topic, people barter even now to a relatively minor extent. That said having a currency that has a commonly agreed upon value has benefits that I think will make universal barter, even in a crisis, a fairly short term thing. Even if the USD dies, something will fill its role (even at a local level) at some point and it may not take long. |
"Always consider the possibility that you may be wrong. Especially when you are absolutely certain you are right."
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Well when the tornado rolled through town this spring it took about 10 minutes for people to start bartering. Power out all over town, only a couple gas stations could pump gas. Most ATMs didn't work...People don't carry cash like 20 years ago. All three Dollar Generals were hit and closed. Walmart doesn't carry enough product for surge restock of supplies. A lot will be handshake agreements to get even in a couple days. If normal isn't back in a couple days then everyone becomes a pawn broker. I drove away from town 30-45 minutes to get fuel and needed items. I had enough fuel for our 3 days without power but wanted to restock reserves. Overall it was short lived with power out 3-9 days. Amazing work getting all power back on. |
| Yep, it takes about a day or so in a hurricane disaster area and folks are bartering for what they need. It amazes me everytime it happens just how unprepared most folks are and how desperate they get at the slightest inconvenience. Never underestimate these types of people. |
| Our entire area was without power, internet, or phones for 8 days or more after Helene. Cash was good. Plastic was useless. Didn’t see any bartering, but we were so busy with clean up. |
17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
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I barter all the time now. Why should I stop? At this for decades now, I've done my share of research. I found the German concertation camps of WWII to be most telling. The number 1 items for barter were smokes and alcohol. In crisis, people put a lot more emphasis on luxury items. That said this comment is very pertinent. "It would surprise you what a human will trade or do for a piece of bread." As for Gold and Silver, I can't find a single instance in history that they were not valued. BTW, the media idea Native Americans did not value Gold is a lie. Tj |
"We prepare so we don't have to go to the Superdome!"
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I usually look for analogues, similar situations. In my extremely limited experience, I see two things. Sharing (with expectation/obligation) and barter. Newfoundland Canada. It has been and continues to be extremely poor. People share. I have some, you do not. Here, have some of mine. However, tomorrow, when you have and I do not, the expectation is you help me. This is based on a sense of shared adversity and shared survival. If someone takes, but does not share, they receive Arsehole status and the sharing ends. This is also similar to family exchange and sharing the Philippines. "Family" is huge, including aunts uncles, third cousins etc. Sharing is often normal>. It does need to be reciprocal. I do NOT expect the above to be in any way normal, in a broader societal sense. Too much "I'm entitled", too many "outside groups".. And trade is normal. I have beans, but you have a rotary tiller. If you till my garden, I'll give you these beans. Again, this is often not so much an "economic" transfer, but rather a form of extended sharing. A sense of community is essential to this. Complete strangers, standing on a street corner, looking to trade AA batteries for D? I dont see it. If your community HAS a sense of community, of joint identity, I expect sharing and trade will take place. If an area is fractured, has any aspect of tribalism, I do NOT expect this to happen. |
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Did Hurricane Sandy flooded 14 days no power. Cash was king and we did barter with people. People wanted me to charge their cell phones with my generator in return I drilled the fuel tanks in their vehicles for more fuel. I highly recommend having a couple of the old school glass water bottles for the older water dispensers. They came in handy separating the fuel from the water. |
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Originally Posted By GraboidHunter: Barter worked pretty well here during the aftermath of Hurricane Helene. No electricity for weeks. Lots of people needed coffee and whiskey. I had plenty of those things and was able to trade for gasoline and bar oil. They say cash is king but when all the stores are closed and/or destroyed cash is kind of useless. Yep. People who have lived through massive natural disasters already know the answer to this question. Barter happens. |
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I'm not sure experiences in natural disasters it one to one in this scenario Trading for smokes/booze, knowing you can replenish in a couple of days/weeks, is one thing. It takes on an entirely different calculus when that replenishment will not happen for months/years, if ever. |
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Rural Alaskans barter all the time. My wife trades dry-fish for Sitka herring eggs. Also all kinds of native food. FIL trades for whale muktuk. But if anything happens long term lots of stealing and killing will happen. Yupiks have gone to war with other yupik villages for food. |
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"Muh food un bullets is betterin than that there gold n silvers." Gold has been tangible, portable wealth, suitable for trade for all of recorded human history. The fact that most people don't have the extra cash on hand to put back gold in addition to everything else a prepared household should do is my guess why the myth that gold is worthless in an emergency always pops up in these threads, and folks are trying to justify their not having any precious metals to store a fraction of their wealth. I am far from a gold bug, but thinking gold will be worthless is just silly. |
Where There Are Sheep, Wolves Will Always Thrive
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Originally Posted By TomJefferson: I barter all the time now. Why should I stop? At this for decades now, I've done my share of research. I found the German concertation camps of WWII to be most telling. The number 1 items for barter were smokes and alcohol. In crisis, people put a lot more emphasis on luxury items. That said this comment is very pertinent. "It would surprise you what a human will trade or do for a piece of bread." As for Gold and Silver, I can't find a single instance in history that they were not valued. BTW, the media idea Native Americans did not value Gold is a lie. All of this is spot on IMHO. I keep a decent stock of alcohol for that very purpose. If there was a way to stock cigarettes without them going bad, I would. |
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my guess is the variety of thoughts on utility of bartering reflect the variety of lifestyles. if you're in a city, apartment-dweller, there's a good chance that yeah, you all have the same stuff and need the same stuff and there's little chance for barter. doubtful that anybody is going to do the june cleaver bit and ask the beav to go next door to borrow a cup of sugar, because nobody cooks. if you're in a farming community, the answer is probably radically different. everybody probably has a workshop or barn full of tools and stuff and there's a high likelihood of barter for goods or service. i kinda doubt anyone wanting cigs/booze has something i need. i can't imaging ever trading Au/Ag. food for medicine/medical skills is possible. same for mechanical and electrical repair. |
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A common misconception of money (and gold and silver) is that it “always” has value. In order for money to have value, you have to be able to buy something with it. Money or precious metals has little value if you are unable to buy anything with it. What makes money and precious metals useful is the ability to carry something of value with you to exchange for something you value more. It’s hard to carry a tractor around looking to trade it for something but it’s easy to carry cash or precious metals. But, that assumes someone is willing to accept it for the item they have that you want. When times are good, cash is king. When times are bad, it depends on how bad and why they are bad. Cash might be king in some cases….but in some cases tradable goods might be better to have. Cash and precious metals are fine to have but should be part of your plan, not all of it. Barter has existed since the dawn of time. It will and does continue to be used. I use it regularly in my life. My skills have been bartered for other things many times. Lesson there is….have skills and you can get stuff from people who don’t have skills. I recently installed a mini split for someone and in exchange he gave me a side of high quality beef for my freezer. No taxes paid. Both of us were happy with the “trade”. |
"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By lumper: I would think if the US dollar became "worthless" meaning that the average person no no longer viewed it a means of stable storage of wealth/value that the odds are high that people would resort to barter, after all, what is the alternative? All it would take is people loosing faith in the government backing it. Perhaps they may use a locally produced currency, or something else that has general perceived value among the population. Labor, fuel, food, tobacco, alcohol, clean water, precious metals, etc. Anything that has value can be traded, money just makes it a more efficient process. If money has no perceived value, something else will take its place. This could easily vary based on the local circumstances. +1 |
Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
SO MUCH WIN IN ONE POST IT COULD CRASH ARFCOM !!!
SO MUCH WIN IN ONE POST IT COULD CRASH ARFCOM !!!
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Originally Posted By Bubbatheredneck: "Muh food un bullets is betterin than that there gold n silvers." Gold has been tangible, portable wealth, suitable for trade for all of recorded human history. The fact that most people don't have the extra cash on hand to put back gold in addition to everything else a prepared household should do is my guess why the myth that gold is worthless in an emergency always pops up in these threads, and folks are trying to justify their not having any precious metals to store a fraction of their wealth. I am far from a gold bug, but thinking gold will be worthless is just silly. I would not say gold or silver is worthless in an emergency where you are staying put, but my thinking is that it's primary value would not be during an emergency, but in the rebuilding time afterward. Other consumable items would be of more use during the actual emergency. Consumables would be things like food, clean water, labor, tools, fuel & lubricants, screws, nails, the ability to charge power tools & such. If one had to evacuate, gold (in particular) or silver might well be a suitable form of portable wealth, that would be readily convertible in an unaffected area (or other country). I personally don't have much simply due to the fact that I believe the chances area low that my family and I would be leaving the rural area where we live. I would rather invest in things that will help us stay here. |
It's true no matter who you are, the worst thing you can do for someone is give them something for nothing. - 3rdpig
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
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Originally Posted By lumper: I would think if the US dollar became "worthless" meaning that the average person no no longer viewed it a means of stable storage of wealth/value that the odds are high that people would resort to barter, after all, what is the alternative? All it would take is people loosing faith in the government backing it. Perhaps they may use a locally produced currency, or something else that has general perceived value among the population. Labor, fuel, food, tobacco, alcohol, clean water, precious metals, etc. Anything that has value can be traded, money just makes it a more efficient process. If money has no perceived value, something else will take its place. This could easily vary based on the local circumstances. For short term event cash, or metals Might be in demand. Long term, food, fuel, RX meds, alcohol, nicotine, etc would be more in demand, IMHO. |
I survived the cockpocalypse of 11/21/2012.
Bacon grease, the Muslim approved .mil lubricant.
Bacon grease, the Muslim approved .mil lubricant.
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Originally Posted By zoe17: For short term event cash, or metals Might be in demand. Long term, food, fuel, RX meds, alcohol, nicotine, etc would be more in demand, IMHO. I think this would depend in the area affected. If people can acquire resources from outside the affected area, metals should work better due to ease of transport, and due to value convertibility. If one were restricted to a limited geographic area, daily consumables would be better. I think about the history of Germany during the Weimar republic time period. Trade was limited with outside countries due to transport restrictions, and due to the fact that the German money was loosing value at a rate that made it untenable for use - simply because no one wanted it. Trade within German borders was (mostly) limited to what could be bartered locally, while things imported into the country had to be purchased with gold. A interesting read on that history is a book called Blockade - The Diary of an Austrian Middle Class Woman Available free online. |
It's true no matter who you are, the worst thing you can do for someone is give them something for nothing. - 3rdpig
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
| I suspect most people would rather have actual cash (assuming not a total societal collapse) over gold or silver. Most people today have no way to verify that gold and silver is real. |
"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By ColtRifle: I suspect most people would rather have actual cash (assuming not a total societal collapse) over gold or silver. Most people today have no way to verify that gold and silver is real. The fact that dollars are used today proves you correct. Cash is really convenient, and as long as most people have faith in the issuing government, it should hold it's value. The question to me is, how can one tell when that faith in the issuing government falters to the point that hyperinflation kicks in? Based on historical records, it seems easy to see in hindsight, but hard to see while a person is living in it (or at least it is not realized with sufficient time to plan accordingly). Part of it would be simple human nature of looking for and seeing what they are used to instead of a new reality. The hope (mingled with uncertainty) that things would return to "normal" instead of realizing that normal, at least for now is gone, would keep most people from rapidly changing their world view. |
It's true no matter who you are, the worst thing you can do for someone is give them something for nothing. - 3rdpig
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy. - Heinlein
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Originally Posted By Mousegun: Everyone jumps on gold or silver. Sept ya can't eat gold or silver and if it got that bad that these two commodities didn't do it, then food is all the gold you would need. Yep, the first few years maybe gold or silver wouldn't be worth much, just the essentials and nice to haves (like whiskey & coffee), but after a few years, once people got what they wanted and there was some commercial production, the gold and silver all of a sudden become very valuable. |
| Wrote an article in American Survival Guide November 1996 on this subject. |
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Most of our "money" is in digital form. What physical currency that exists is just paper, and if things crash people aren't going to put their trust in paper. The lack of any meaningful currency of actual value will inevitably result in more bartering going on. There will be a learning curve, and if it's one thing Americans have it's an overabundance of stuff. Our houses are so full of stuff that we have to rent storage units to store our excess stuff. So, bartering of skills for stuff that people need, or swapping stuff we have for stuff we need, will be more of a thing |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Originally Posted By tc556guy: Most of our "money" is in digital form. What physical currency that exists is just paper, and if things crash people aren't going to put their trust in paper. The lack of any meaningful currency of actual value will inevitably result in more bartering going on. There will be a learning curve, and if it's one thing Americans have it's an overabundance of stuff. Our houses are so full of stuff that we have to rent storage units to store our excess stuff. So, bartering of skills for stuff that people need, or swapping stuff we have for stuff we need, will be more of a thing Generally I agree but only minor thought is, storage units mostly store low to no value stuff that people have a sedimental attachment to and can’t throw away. Imagine society has collapsed. There is a storage unit near you that clearly has been abandoned. You decide to go see what you can find to help you survive. I’d guess that you would find useful items in maybe 1 out of 10 units. That’s the absurd amount of junk Americans are paying to store. I have a lot of experience dealing with storage units and the items inside and it’s amazing how much people pay to store essentially garbage. |
"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By ColtRifle: Generally I agree but only minor thought is, storage units mostly store low to no value stuff that people have a sedimental attachment to and can’t throw away. Imagine society has collapsed. There is a storage unit near you that clearly has been abandoned. You decide to go see what you can find to help you survive. I’d guess that you would find useful items in maybe 1 out of 10 units. That’s the absurd amount of junk Americans are paying to store. I have a lot of experience dealing with storage units and the items inside and it’s amazing how much people pay to store essentially garbage. I only mentioned the storage units as an example of how we hang onto way too much stuff,not that the contents would be mined for useful stuff. Storage units these days get hit often enough that I think the average citizen doesn't store anything of value in the storage units. You're still more likely to find an excess of useful stuff in people's houses. After my dad died last year I think that I spent the first month just scratching the surface in going through the sheer amount of hand tools and clothing and medications that filled the house. |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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