HF emcom / SOTA / choose my first HF (Page 2 of 2)
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Originally Posted By Colt653: another nice thing about the FT891 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2275/IMG_1014_jpeg-3773890.JPG whats that? |
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I also got interested in amateur radio from an emcomm perspective. 5 solid years in the hobby, and I don't still don't know how useful it might be, but I've had a lot of fun learning. Since this is the right community for it, your question is akin to asking what is the one do it all firearm. You can live with 1 firearm, or no firearms, but multiple firearms of different types and some as backups is the best approach. I understand TTP's concept of no random contacts, but I've been watching his videos since the beginning and I'm pretty confident that I understand portable operations better than he does as far as what equipment works and what doesn't, what time of day typically works better to where and what to expect from the bands based on reported conditions with my 150+ POTA activations and multiple times a week check-ins on local VHF, 80m and 40m nets. His approach removes a lot of fun and learning experiences out of the hobby. My recommendation to you from someone who was in your shoes 6 years ago is the following: Choose a 100w HF transceiver from the big 3, I'd go with a FT-991A, FT-891, IC-7300 or FT-710 in that order. There are pro's and con's to all of them that can be found elsewhere, but the FT-991A has a built in tuner that is adequate for most COTS antenna systems, has 2m and 70cm (nobody uses 70cm) built in and is important enough to me that I have 3 of them. 1 in a POTA bag (Eberlestock FACTrack), 1 in my go box and 1 in the shack performing U/VHF duties. I just purchased an FTX-1 Optima and I think that will replace 1 of my 991A's. You can go that route if money isn't an issue. The FT-891 is the backpack POTA G.O.A.T. as far as myself and my other POTA brethren are concerned. I build my 891 kit's around resonant antenna systems and do not use a tuner. If tuner is needed, I use something else. IC-7300 is the digital king because of it's robust finals and ease of setup. FT-710 is just a nice little radio. That being said, what I've learned is that you need to learn how the radios and the ionosphere works. Not on paper, but by repeated attempts, successes and failures in the field. I am in Alaska which often has challenging propagation conditions, but I have over a 90% success rate with activations, which is 10 contacts or more. It's rare now that I can't go out and make contacts, the first few were a struggle. I did all the paper and online learning and then went out and failed to make a contact on my first activation attempt and then failed to complete an activation on the next couple. It's great that you're in the data and researching phase. BTDT. I encourage to get out and do radio, that's where the real learning is. If you're truly limiting yourself to 1 transceiver, for me, it has to be the FT-991A (rumored to be discontinued soon) or the FTX-1 Optima. Put it in a lightweight dry sack inside your backpack and carry a small tarp shelter to set up while operating in wet conditions. I'd carry with it a vertical antenna system, something like the Chameleon MPAS Lite, an 80m OCFD and a roll up J pole from N9TAX. That will let you do DX, NVIS, VHF, voice, digital, CW and probably 90% of the things that anybody does in the hobby. |
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[b]Originally Posted By tyrex13: That being said, what I've learned is that you need to learn how the radios and the ionosphere works. Not on paper, but by repeated attempts, successes and failures in the field. I am in Alaska which often has challenging propagation conditions, but I have over a 90% success rate with activations, which is 10 contacts or more. It's rare now that I can't go out and make contacts, the first few were a struggle. I did all the paper and online learning and then went out and failed to make a contact on my first activation attempt and then failed to complete an activation on the next couple. It's great that you're in the data and researching phase. BTDT. I encourage to get out and do radio, that's where the real learning is. If you're truly limiting yourself to 1 transceiver, for me, it has to be the FT-991A (rumored to be discontinued soon) or the FTX-1 Optima. Put it in a lightweight dry sack inside your backpack and carry a small tarp shelter to set up while operating in wet conditions. I'd carry with it a vertical antenna system, something like the Chameleon MPAS Lite, an 80m OCFD and a roll up J pole from N9TAX. That will let you do DX, NVIS, VHF, voice, digital, CW and probably 90% of the things that anybody does in the hobby. Wisdom right here!!!! |
“Every man has two deaths, when he is buried in the ground and the last time someone says his name. In some ways, men can be immortal. “ - Ernest Hemingway
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Originally Posted By tyrex13: I also got interested in amateur radio from an emcomm perspective. 5 solid years in the hobby, and I don't still don't know how useful it might be, but I've had a lot of fun learning. Since this is the right community for it, your question is akin to asking what is the one do it all firearm. You can live with 1 firearm, or no firearms, but multiple firearms of different types and some as backups is the best approach. I understand TTP's concept of no random contacts, but I've been watching his videos since the beginning and I'm pretty confident that I understand portable operations better than he does as far as what equipment works and what doesn't, what time of day typically works better to where and what to expect from the bands based on reported conditions with my 150+ POTA activations and multiple times a week check-ins on local VHF, 80m and 40m nets. His approach removes a lot of fun and learning experiences out of the hobby. My recommendation to you from someone who was in your shoes 6 years ago is the following: Choose a 100w HF transceiver from the big 3, I'd go with a FT-991A, FT-891, IC-7300 or FT-710 in that order. There are pro's and con's to all of them that can be found elsewhere, but the FT-991A has a built in tuner that is adequate for most COTS antenna systems, has 2m and 70cm (nobody uses 70cm) built in and is important enough to me that I have 3 of them. 1 in a POTA bag (Eberlestock FACTrack), 1 in my go box and 1 in the shack performing U/VHF duties. I just purchased an FTX-1 Optima and I think that will replace 1 of my 991A's. You can go that route if money isn't an issue. The FT-891 is the backpack POTA G.O.A.T. as far as myself and my other POTA brethren are concerned. I build my 891 kit's around resonant antenna systems and do not use a tuner. If tuner is needed, I use something else. IC-7300 is the digital king because of it's robust finals and ease of setup. FT-710 is just a nice little radio. That being said, what I've learned is that you need to learn how the radios and the ionosphere works. Not on paper, but by repeated attempts, successes and failures in the field. I am in Alaska which often has challenging propagation conditions, but I have over a 90% success rate with activations, which is 10 contacts or more. It's rare now that I can't go out and make contacts, the first few were a struggle. I did all the paper and online learning and then went out and failed to make a contact on my first activation attempt and then failed to complete an activation on the next couple. It's great that you're in the data and researching phase. BTDT. I encourage to get out and do radio, that's where the real learning is. If you're truly limiting yourself to 1 transceiver, for me, it has to be the FT-991A (rumored to be discontinued soon) or the FTX-1 Optima. Put it in a lightweight dry sack inside your backpack and carry a small tarp shelter to set up while operating in wet conditions. I'd carry with it a vertical antenna system, something like the Chameleon MPAS Lite, an 80m OCFD and a roll up J pole from N9TAX. That will let you do DX, NVIS, VHF, voice, digital, CW and probably 90% of the things that anybody does in the hobby. thanks yes, I really do want to keep my HF to 1 and done. I have the line of sight stuff covered already with UHF and to lesser extent VHF. |
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Originally Posted By K9-Bob:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv3Tt-AUZCYI am not sure the juice is worth the squeeze with the Lab599, but I think if you bought one the PA500 amp would be a must have. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/54857/DJI_0129-2-scaled_webp-3773838.JPG This is a hot mess of wires, but man the $3600 price tag is just too much.  https://theqrpstore.com/stations/ Yeah that's too much. Long ago I posited the idea that someone should make a ruggedized chassis for the Elecraft K2 just for this market. The K2 is gone now and it would have been quite an expensive proposition. |
This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
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Originally Posted By tyrex13: I also got interested in amateur radio from an emcomm perspective. 5 solid years in the hobby, and I don't still don't know how useful it might be, but I've had a lot of fun learning. Since this is the right community for it, your question is akin to asking what is the one do it all firearm. You can live with 1 firearm, or no firearms, but multiple firearms of different types and some as backups is the best approach. I understand TTP's concept of no random contacts, but I've been watching his videos since the beginning and I'm pretty confident that I understand portable operations better than he does as far as what equipment works and what doesn't, what time of day typically works better to where and what to expect from the bands based on reported conditions with my 150+ POTA activations and multiple times a week check-ins on local VHF, 80m and 40m nets. His approach removes a lot of fun and learning experiences out of the hobby. My recommendation to you from someone who was in your shoes 6 years ago is the following: Choose a 100w HF transceiver from the big 3, I'd go with a FT-991A, FT-891, IC-7300 or FT-710 in that order. There are pro's and con's to all of them that can be found elsewhere, but the FT-991A has a built in tuner that is adequate for most COTS antenna systems, has 2m and 70cm (nobody uses 70cm) built in and is important enough to me that I have 3 of them. 1 in a POTA bag (Eberlestock FACTrack), 1 in my go box and 1 in the shack performing U/VHF duties. I just purchased an FTX-1 Optima and I think that will replace 1 of my 991A's. You can go that route if money isn't an issue. The FT-891 is the backpack POTA G.O.A.T. as far as myself and my other POTA brethren are concerned. I build my 891 kit's around resonant antenna systems and do not use a tuner. If tuner is needed, I use something else. IC-7300 is the digital king because of it's robust finals and ease of setup. FT-710 is just a nice little radio. That being said, what I've learned is that you need to learn how the radios and the ionosphere works. Not on paper, but by repeated attempts, successes and failures in the field. I am in Alaska which often has challenging propagation conditions, but I have over a 90% success rate with activations, which is 10 contacts or more. It's rare now that I can't go out and make contacts, the first few were a struggle. I did all the paper and online learning and then went out and failed to make a contact on my first activation attempt and then failed to complete an activation on the next couple. It's great that you're in the data and researching phase. BTDT. I encourage to get out and do radio, that's where the real learning is. If you're truly limiting yourself to 1 transceiver, for me, it has to be the FT-991A (rumored to be discontinued soon) or the FTX-1 Optima. Put it in a lightweight dry sack inside your backpack and carry a small tarp shelter to set up while operating in wet conditions. I'd carry with it a vertical antenna system, something like the Chameleon MPAS Lite, an 80m OCFD and a roll up J pole from N9TAX. That will let you do DX, NVIS, VHF, voice, digital, CW and probably 90% of the things that anybody does in the hobby. There's a lot of good stuff in there. The 991 isn't really that big of a radio to put in a pack or a case, and it's a lot nicer user interface than the 891 IMO. You also get 2m/440 all mode which can be useful. I think about your Alaska situation from time to time and kick myself for not getting my experimental antenna built and working yet, as I'd kinda like you to try it out up there and see if it makes a difference. |
This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
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Originally Posted By tyrex13: Since you said you are digital first then I’d get a new IC-7300. They are an incredible bargain right now. No rig on this planet is easier to interface for digital than a 7300 NOR is there a rig that is as robust and able to work 100 watts digital all day every day without getting hot. The FT891 is about a 25 to 30 watt at BEST digital rig. You can cook breakfast with digital modes on the rig in just a few minutes. It is NOT a very good digital radio. I used mine in the shack on FT8 for a while, and was disappointed with its heat performance. If digital is your primary focus, then you don't want an FT891 unless you will be happy with 25 watt performance. Unlike the 7300 which will run the 100, all day, all week, all year. I still own both, and the 891 is a fine SSB and even a pretty good CW rig. I use it a lot while parked in my truck on CW, but it sucks as a digital rig. For one thing it does not have a digital modem built in, but $60 will fix that with an external digirig setup which I have in the truck, BUT it just won't stand up to the heat stress. The 7300 will. |
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Originally Posted By Colt653: Originally Posted By K0UA: ..... NOR is there a rig that is as robust and able to work 100 watts digital all day every day without getting hot. ..... you sure about that ?  https://i.imgur.com/xaLPUqQ.jpg Can you run FT8 on the Kenwood all day balls to the wall, working one station after another without getting hot? If so, I stand corrected. |
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Originally Posted By K0UA: No rig on this planet is easier to interface for digital than a 7300 NOR is there a rig that is as robust and able to work 100 watts digital all day every day without getting hot. The FT891 is about a 25 to 30 watt at BEST digital rig. You can cook breakfast with digital modes on the rig in just a few minutes. It is NOT a very good digital radio. I used mine in the shack on FT8 for a while, and was disappointed with its heat performance. If digital is your primary focus, then you don't want an FT891 unless you will be happy with 25 watt performance. Unlike the 7300 which will run the 100, all day, all week, all year. I still own both, and the 891 is a fine SSB and even a pretty good CW rig. I use it a lot while parked in my truck on CW, but it sucks as a digital rig. For one thing it does not have a digital modem built in, but $60 will fix that with an external digirig setup which I have in the truck, BUT it just won't stand up to the heat stress. The 7300 will. I very much appreciate your input re digital. I looked up the 7300 though and that appears to be really a base station not much less than that. Am I wrong? Why does digital cause so much heat? Portable is also a primary deciding factor, I don't want to be stuck in the shack. |
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Originally Posted By Greenspan: I very much appreciate your input re digital. I looked up the 7300 though and that appears to be really a base station not much less than that. Am I wrong? Why does digital cause so much heat? Portable is also a primary deciding factor, I don't want to be stuck in the shack. Originally Posted By Greenspan: I very much appreciate your input re digital. I looked up the 7300 though and that appears to be really a base station not much less than that. Am I wrong? Why does digital cause so much heat? Portable is also a primary deciding factor, I don't want to be stuck in the shack. Attached File AN/PRC-150 Type Manpack tactical radio Dimensions (with battery case): 10.5W × 3.5H × 13.2D inches (26.7W × 8.1H × 34.3D cm) Radio Weight: 10 lb (4.7 kg) without batteries. Attached File ICOM IC-7300 has dimensions of 240 mm (width) x 94 mm (height) x 238 mm (depth), which is approximately 9.45 inches x 3.7 inches x 9.37 inches. WeightApproximately 4.2 kg (9.26 lb) Attached File Yaesu FT-991A Dimensions 9.0"x3.2"x10.0" Weight 9.5lb "Desktop" amateur HF transceivers in the current era aren't that big really, at least for the lower range options. High end options like Icom 7610, Yaesu FTDX-101, etc are larger, as are many older radios. You said "manpack" earlier in the thread, so it could be worse... Attached File The AN/PRC-77 radio measures 273 x 273 x 100 mm (approximately 10.75 x 10.75 x 3.94 inches). It weighs about 6.2 kg (approximately 13.67 lbs) (and all that for a 4 watt radio...) Yes the 891 is smaller... The dimensions of the Yaesu FT-891 are 6.1 inches wide, 2.0 inches high, and 8.6 inches deep (155 x 52 x 218 mm) without knobs. It is designed to be compact and lightweight, weighing approximately 4.18 pounds (1.9 kg). Why does digital cause so much heat? Duty cycle and average power output. SSB voice in a 100 watt radio has a peak power of 100w, but those are instantaneous peaks, with the average power much less depending on the speakers voice. Average probably 10-20 watts during transmission. CW during transmission is only actually transmitting about half of the time, so about 50% power output. Digital modes during transmission are 100% power output. Digital modes also routinely have a duty cycle that approaches 50% transmission time. In combination with the 100% power output during transmission it's more heat than many amateur transceivers are capable of dealing with. Originally Posted By Colt653: another nice thing about the FT891 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2275/IMG_1014_jpeg-3773890.JPG Needs a more pleasing color 
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This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
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Harris Falcon III RF-7800H-MP001 Wideband HF/VHF Manpack Tactical Radio Buy this OP and tell us how wonderful it is.
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“Every man has two deaths, when he is buried in the ground and the last time someone says his name. In some ways, men can be immortal. “ - Ernest Hemingway
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Here's an idea. Buy a really cheap little QRP radio to use for portable digital stuff, see how it works out. A 100w radio (now or later) depending on how things go. Something like a QDX or QMX perhaps. You're not out much if a QDX doesn't work out. |
This is...a clue - Pat_Rogers
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
I'm not adequately aluminumized for this thread. - gonzo_beyondo
CO, MI, OR - Please lobby your legislators to end discrimination against non-resident CCW permit holders
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Originally Posted By Gamma762: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/AN_PRC-150_radio_set_jpg-3774791.JPG AN/PRC-150 Type Manpack tactical radio Dimensions (with battery case): 10.5W 3.5H 13.2D inches (26.7W 8.1H 34.3D cm) Radio Weight: 10 lb (4.7 kg) without batteries. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/OIP-543295239_jpg-3774792.JPG ICOM IC-7300 has dimensions of 240 mm (width) x 94 mm (height) x 238 mm (depth), which is approximately 9.45 inches x 3.7 inches x 9.37 inches. WeightApproximately 4.2 kg (9.26 lb) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/ft-991A_png-3774793.JPG Yaesu FT-991A Dimensions 9.0"x3.2"x10.0" Weight 9.5lb You said "manpack" earlier in the thread, so it could be worse... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/an-prc77-96595491_jpg-3774794.JPG The AN/PRC-77 radio measures 273 x 273 x 100 mm (approximately 10.75 x 10.75 x 3.94 inches). It weighs about 6.2 kg (approximately 13.67 lbs) (and all that for a 4 watt radio...) Yes the 891 is smaller... The dimensions of the Yaesu FT-891 are 6.1 inches wide, 2.0 inches high, and 8.6 inches deep (155 x 52 x 218 mm) without knobs. It is designed to be compact and lightweight, weighing approximately 4.18 pounds (1.9 kg). Duty cycle and average power output. SSB voice in a 100 watt radio has a peak power of 100w, but those are instantaneous peaks, with the average power much less depending on the speakers voice. Average probably 10-20 watts during transmission. CW during transmission is only actually transmitting about half of the time, so about 50% power output. Digital modes during transmission are 100% power output. Digital modes also routinely have a duty cycle that approaches 50% transmission time. In combination with the 100% power output during transmission it's more heat than many amateur transceivers are capable of dealing with. Needs a more pleasing color Originally Posted By Gamma762: Originally Posted By Greenspan: I very much appreciate your input re digital. I looked up the 7300 though and that appears to be really a base station not much less than that. Am I wrong? Why does digital cause so much heat? Portable is also a primary deciding factor, I don't want to be stuck in the shack. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/AN_PRC-150_radio_set_jpg-3774791.JPG AN/PRC-150 Type Manpack tactical radio Dimensions (with battery case): 10.5W 3.5H 13.2D inches (26.7W 8.1H 34.3D cm) Radio Weight: 10 lb (4.7 kg) without batteries. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/OIP-543295239_jpg-3774792.JPG ICOM IC-7300 has dimensions of 240 mm (width) x 94 mm (height) x 238 mm (depth), which is approximately 9.45 inches x 3.7 inches x 9.37 inches. WeightApproximately 4.2 kg (9.26 lb) https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/ft-991A_png-3774793.JPG Yaesu FT-991A Dimensions 9.0"x3.2"x10.0" Weight 9.5lb You said "manpack" earlier in the thread, so it could be worse... https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/58237/an-prc77-96595491_jpg-3774794.JPG The AN/PRC-77 radio measures 273 x 273 x 100 mm (approximately 10.75 x 10.75 x 3.94 inches). It weighs about 6.2 kg (approximately 13.67 lbs) (and all that for a 4 watt radio...) Yes the 891 is smaller... The dimensions of the Yaesu FT-891 are 6.1 inches wide, 2.0 inches high, and 8.6 inches deep (155 x 52 x 218 mm) without knobs. It is designed to be compact and lightweight, weighing approximately 4.18 pounds (1.9 kg). Why does digital cause so much heat? Duty cycle and average power output. SSB voice in a 100 watt radio has a peak power of 100w, but those are instantaneous peaks, with the average power much less depending on the speakers voice. Average probably 10-20 watts during transmission. CW during transmission is only actually transmitting about half of the time, so about 50% power output. Digital modes during transmission are 100% power output. Digital modes also routinely have a duty cycle that approaches 50% transmission time. In combination with the 100% power output during transmission it's more heat than many amateur transceivers are capable of dealing with. Originally Posted By Colt653: another nice thing about the FT891 https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/2275/IMG_1014_jpeg-3773890.JPG Needs a more pleasing color |
Mach
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I think the others have superbly answered the heat problem with digital vs SSB or even CW. MANY transceivers will not allow 100 watts output for an extended period of time on FT8 or JS8 or a number of digital modes. Even my old Icom 756 pro III which was a very premium and large table top radio would suffer after a few minutes of FT8. or meteor scatter MSK. Sure it would do it for a few minutes, but not for hours and certainly not days. It would be a puddle of aluminum and plastic on the desk. that's if you could stand the screaming of the fan on high speed for that long. The FT891 when run at 100 watts on FT8 or JS8 is good for about 1 QSO then you need to plan for a cool down period. The screaming of its tiny little fan/s is almost unbearable. Yet you will never hear them on SSB. Only come on at a very low level after you make a VERY long transmission on SSB. The best way to experience the differences in the way rigs handle digital modes is to buy a few and try them yourself. I have done exactly that, and I can tell you my FT891, while a great compact SSB and CW rig for a mobile, is a lousy digital rig at BEST. The Icom 7300 either Mark 1 or Mark 2 will literally run as cool as a cucumber on digital modes for as long as you want to operate it. Why do I still have an FT891 in my truck? Because it works very well. Is it easy to operate? Nope. Not compared to a Icom 7300... Not even close. But you can "get used to its" operating system after a while. Why do I keep it if it is such a pain to operate and is not good for digital? Because I don't operate digital from my truck. I operate CW and SSB.. And it does both very well and it is small and fits the vehicle very easily. And would fit much smaller vehicles easily too. |
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I started with a Icom 7300, then bought a Icom 705. Once you know how to run the 7300, the 705 is very similar, same layout, intuitive menu system. If there is a shack in a box, the 705 is it. After I bought the 705, the 7300 sat for 8 months unused. So I sold it. The IC-705 operates all the modes and bands. BUT, one downside, this radio has no tuner. You can use resonant antennas or use an external tuner. Electaft T1 is what I use with non resonant antennas and it gives me more flexibility. Don't shy away from QRP, it's the only way I operate now. But until you start, you don't know really what you will prefer and your radio choice will most likely change as your understanding evolves. If your primary need is voice (doesn't sound like it), stick with 100w, you can always turn it down after you understand things a bit better. There are some compromises when you do this, but you gain flexibility. If you primarily want to operate digital, CW, with voice when conditions are right, then QRP might be a good fit. I like the "challenge" of QRP. Using wire antennas, small battery, small radio and lots of fun. It allows you to get outside more, which is always a good thing. |
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A G106 with the digital interface is 230.00 with a warranty and a cute little display. The mystery boxes and dollar raffle are going on at Radioddity as we speak. I got my X6100 in the raffle, and still toss 5 bucks in when they have it. 
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World ain't what it seems, is it Gunny?