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Well that sort of thing, a lot like some folks plans to "last minute shop" everything they weren't putting back ahead of time, relies a lot on perfect timing. Yes obviously if there are mushroom clouds on the horizon the chance Chase is going to pursue your mortgage is now pretty slim... |
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Originally Posted By WantGrape: If the economy collapses does it really matter if your home is paid off? Like if half the people on your block end up getting their home repossessed what's to stop everyone from just saying "we're staying put until things recover and we'll get back to paying then". Eventually it will mean people lose. They can buy time, but eventually the banks will take the properties that make sense. I don’t know where you live, but I’m in suburban Detroit where we experienced 33% unemployment during the 07-09 recession and an almost identical percentage of people in active foreclosure for a significant part of that downturn. It was bad, and like the numbers suggest, if you weren’t laid off and losing your house, one or more of your next door neighbors were. I only know of one person, a coworker, who stayed/squatted in his house for a year before moving out and then made a deal with his bank to move back in and reassume the loan because he was so underwater and had a HELOC on top of it. Every neighborhood had a shitload of houses that people left where the grass was dead and legal papers hung in the windows/doors-so many that the maintenance crews from the banks couldn’t get to them all before winter to drain the plumbing before it froze. I posted a pic of the legal foreclosure notices in the paper (legally required) at the time-it was usually one page…… this time it was bigger than the paper, probably 50 pages of small print. When things get bad like this, people walk away from homes and back in with family. They do it for a lot of reasons, but they definitely do. |
Never make another person a priority when they merely see you as an option...
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
Wonder if the festivities in the Middle East are to distract from what is coming: ??BANK RUNS BEGIN | 401ks Are TOAST |
Never make another person a priority when they merely see you as an option...
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
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Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Wonder if the festivities in the Middle East are to distract from what is coming:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWOkVgIEJIkI watched a few mins. That video (and the rest of the videos he posts) are clickbait garbage. |
"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
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Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Eventually it will mean people lose. They can buy time, but eventually the banks will take the properties that make sense. I don’t know where you live, but I’m in suburban Detroit where we experienced 33% unemployment during the 07-09 recession and an almost identical percentage of people in active foreclosure for a significant part of that downturn. It was bad, and like the numbers suggest, if you weren’t laid off and losing your house, one or more of your next door neighbors were. I only know of one person, a coworker, who stayed/squatted in his house for a year before moving out and then made a deal with his bank to move back in and reassume the loan because he was so underwater and had a HELOC on top of it. Every neighborhood had a shitload of houses that people left where the grass was dead and legal papers hung in the windows/doors-so many that the maintenance crews from the banks couldn’t get to them all before winter to drain the plumbing before it froze. I posted a pic of the legal foreclosure notices in the paper (legally required) at the time-it was usually one page…… this time it was bigger than the paper, probably 50 pages of small print. When things get bad like this, people walk away from homes and back in with family. They do it for a lot of reasons, but they definitely do. Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Originally Posted By WantGrape: If the economy collapses does it really matter if your home is paid off? Like if half the people on your block end up getting their home repossessed what's to stop everyone from just saying "we're staying put until things recover and we'll get back to paying then". Eventually it will mean people lose. They can buy time, but eventually the banks will take the properties that make sense. I don’t know where you live, but I’m in suburban Detroit where we experienced 33% unemployment during the 07-09 recession and an almost identical percentage of people in active foreclosure for a significant part of that downturn. It was bad, and like the numbers suggest, if you weren’t laid off and losing your house, one or more of your next door neighbors were. I only know of one person, a coworker, who stayed/squatted in his house for a year before moving out and then made a deal with his bank to move back in and reassume the loan because he was so underwater and had a HELOC on top of it. Every neighborhood had a shitload of houses that people left where the grass was dead and legal papers hung in the windows/doors-so many that the maintenance crews from the banks couldn’t get to them all before winter to drain the plumbing before it froze. I posted a pic of the legal foreclosure notices in the paper (legally required) at the time-it was usually one page…… this time it was bigger than the paper, probably 50 pages of small print. When things get bad like this, people walk away from homes and back in with family. They do it for a lot of reasons, but they definitely do. Im from a poor rural area and didnt notice. I was also in my young 20s and in school so probably wasnt paying attention. |
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: If the economy collapses, will there even be banks to collect? In that type of environment, how would bank agents and bill collectors fare? Hell just before the collapse you could pay off your mortgage in either super inflated currency or in specie. Like I said above, in less than full on- "oh shit there is a dozen mushroom clouds on the horizon" it's doubtful any big bank is going to just say "aaawww shucks, let's let those people out of their obligation." I realize some hope for this as some solution to being underwater in mortgages or whatever, but I don't think it's realistic. Just like the folks who said they would "max out their cards" during the run up to Y2K thinking the banks would fail and/or somehow "lose" the amount they owed in some computer crash. Truth be told I know a guy that trained with me for years that did this, but he was blowing the CC balance on BS. He tried to tell me a year or so after that he was in poor financial shape because he "bought too much preps for y2k" (giving me a specific dollar amount that was easily 10X what he had in preps- I laughed, reminded him how every time we went to a bar, club, out to eat, etc. that he would always collect cash from everyone there and pay the balance on his card. Point is the same, trying to "time" this sort of thing is tough. If you have a dedicated BOL/retreat the #1 goal should be that it's debt free. I'd rather have 5 acres debt free than 100 acres with a yuuge mortgage. It's kinda like the guy I know that pulled all his funds out of the market in 1993 convinced by SW radio and others that the market was about to crash. He had a great paying professional job, family, etc. yet he pulled up stakes and moved to another state. He could have easily retired in his early 50's, yet that move of "cashing out" his 401K, investments, etc. clearly set him back and he was working way into his 60's. |
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"Collapse of the economy" is a very broad encompassing statement to use when describing a possible SHTF or end of society scenario. There could be different things that lead us into it along with various levels of severity. I would wager the vast majority of collapse scenarios don't include the dissolvement of all debt. Some probably, but not all. Big banks, big credit cards, big corporations all have COOP plans just like .gov. Short of us being wiped of the map I would plan for some resemblance of .gov picking up the scrap and reassembling, same with the big corporations in one form or another. About the only way I can see none of that occurring would be if the USA was militarily conquered by another nation or maybe death pandemic end of times or zombie situation. I will continue with the strategy of striving to be debt free. Then if nothing bad happens and we keep up this slow burn for another 50 years I can enjoy retirement at some point in the near future. localized emergencies, disasters, black outs, bad things will always happen and being prepared for the realistic situations first and foremost puts you ahead of 95% of the population and allows you to ride whatever out in comfort. If the big one does come along well, being ahead of 95% of the population is better than the alternative. 
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Originally Posted By ar-jedi:
SO MUCH WIN IN ONE POST IT COULD CRASH ARFCOM !!!
SO MUCH WIN IN ONE POST IT COULD CRASH ARFCOM !!!
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Originally Posted By ColtRifle: I watched a few mins. That video (and the rest of the videos he posts) are clickbait garbage. That may be the case-I haven’t seen these two before. But since watching it a shitload of videos saying the same thing have been hitting my feed. Maybe it’s an algorithm thing, but it might also be that there really is something to this Private Credit BS that’s being handed to investors. |
Never make another person a priority when they merely see you as an option...
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
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Originally Posted By Lowdown3: Like I said above, in less than full on- "oh shit there is a dozen mushroom clouds on the horizon" it's doubtful any big bank is going to just say "aaawww shucks, let's let those people out of their obligation." I realize some hope for this as some solution to being underwater in mortgages or whatever, but I don't think it's realistic. Just like the folks who said they would "max out their cards" during the run up to Y2K thinking the banks would fail and/or somehow "lose" the amount they owed in some computer crash. Truth be told I know a guy that trained with me for years that did this, but he was blowing the CC balance on BS. He tried to tell me a year or so after that he was in poor financial shape because he "bought too much preps for y2k" (giving me a specific dollar amount that was easily 10X what he had in preps- I laughed, reminded him how every time we went to a bar, club, out to eat, etc. that he would always collect cash from everyone there and pay the balance on his card. Point is the same, trying to "time" this sort of thing is tough. If you have a dedicated BOL/retreat the #1 goal should be that it's debt free. I'd rather have 5 acres debt free than 100 acres with a yuuge mortgage. It's kinda like the guy I know that pulled all his funds out of the market in 1993 convinced by SW radio and others that the market was about to crash. He had a great paying professional job, family, etc. yet he pulled up stakes and moved to another state. He could have easily retired in his early 50's, yet that move of "cashing out" his 401K, investments, etc. clearly set him back and he was working way into his 60's. +1 on the BOL needing to be debt free, and preferrably in a Trust so that it can’t be taken to satisfy other debt in a bankruptcy. When I started on my BOL, I didn’t have a house yet. I saved up money for it while interest rates were low and everyone that could rub a pair of nickels together bought houses on the run up to the 07-09 recession. I did look into loan rates on rural property but they were like 11% at the time-I was pissed off enough at the time to switch banks over it as I had enough in my account to cover the loan and it didn’t matter how much I put down-they basically wanted credit card rates for raw land as if I was going to disappear in the middle of the night with my land. So, I bought the land, then came a root cellar to store tools in for the coming cabin. I wanted a basement to put the cabin on, but my fiance at the time thought I was stalling on the cabin plan (she really wanted a cabin too) and kind of forced my hand and I paid the Amish to build one for me instead. I could afford one but not the other. It worked out in the end, but I still really wish I had the storage space of a basement under my cabin. After that, I could just plug away on it as I had time and money with the exception of the well-that took some hard saving as it ended up being $14k by the time water came out of the ground under my own power. I wouldn’t do it any other way looking back on it. Fortune may have mostly smiled on me during the period that I was getting the root cellar built, then cabin built and livable (aside from a 4 month layoff during the recession), but I have experienced 2 times in my life where I have been busted down to zero and 2 steps from homeless thru no fault of my own, and since then I have had a serious house fire where I lost basically everything but the stick walls under the drywall. I just couldn’t take the chance that I would finally get a guaranteed place to Be and not have the potential of losing it hanging over me. |
Never make another person a priority when they merely see you as an option...
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
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Originally Posted By thederrick106: "Collapse of the economy" is a very broad encompassing statement to use when describing a possible SHTF or end of society scenario. There could be different things that lead us into it along with various levels of severity. I would wager the vast majority of collapse scenarios don't include the dissolvement of all debt. Some probably, but not all. Big banks, big credit cards, big corporations all have COOP plans just like .gov. Short of us being wiped of the map I would plan for some resemblance of .gov picking up the scrap and reassembling, same with the big corporations in one form or another. About the only way I can see none of that occurring would be if the USA was militarily conquered by another nation or maybe death pandemic end of times or zombie situation. I will continue with the strategy of striving to be debt free. Then if nothing bad happens and we keep up this slow burn for another 50 years I can enjoy retirement at some point in the near future. localized emergencies, disasters, black outs, bad things will always happen and being prepared for the realistic situations first and foremost puts you ahead of 95% of the population and allows you to ride whatever out in comfort. If the big one does come along well, being ahead of 95% of the population is better than the alternative. It’s worth noting that during the Great Depression, there was a Consolidation of wealth-largely thanks to the feds picking and choosing winners and losers where the Winners were allowed by the government to scoop up businesses and banks for pennies on the dollar. Fortunes were made for people that had actual cash-the story of a sky scraper being bought for $100 being one such miracle. For sure, more than a few fortunes were made back then. I would totally expect the same would happen today-we’re at least as corrupt today as we were back then and the .gov believes that some businesses are too big to fail…. And those businesses will be allowed to scoop up assets cheap when that day comes. Remember when the feds were giving out billions in stimulus money to businesses that immediately put it in the stock markey and made money rather than into their businesses? Pepperidge Farms does.. Yes, absolutely become Debt Free. You will be amazed at what you can afford without that albatross around your neck. |
Never make another person a priority when they merely see you as an option...
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
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Originally Posted By TheOtherDave: Yes, absolutely become Debt Free. You will be amazed at what you can afford without that albatross around your neck. This. We prepped more in the first year after getting completely out of debt than we did in the previous 5 years! You have so much more initiative- initiative being the freedom to ACT rather than being forced to REACT. |
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
Quickest ways to contact us-
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In business since 1992- Over 30 Years in business- Thank you for your business!
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How is it I just found this thread? Love me some doom. It seems to me that there will be lots of loss but also the possibility to become massively wealthy soon. Just have to be quick to notice and able to react accordingly. It looks like Iran is owning Israel and will control much of the Middle East. They won’t surrender and the more they are attacked the more support they get. None of this comes as a surprise since I watch Harrison Smith. He’s been spot on calling it before it happens. I’m expecting a slower collapse as the USD is shunned. Some sociopathic pricks in Israel thought they could subvert and replace the US as the world’s leader and trigger the return of the messiah. Instead everyone is turning on them. If we try to stay in to take out Iran a draft and massive loss of life will be inevitable. It’s a long term plan to break the US. Chabad isn’t exactly hiding it. They’re the ones supplying the IDF with the greater Israel and now Temple Mount patches. The audacity of believing you can trigger biblical prophecies astounds me. I was on track to be out of debt in two or three years aside from our mortgage. Possibly able to retire in five. It’s looking increasingly less likely I can continue working. Haven’t in a couple months now. I’m currently on disability after back surgery. Need two more surgeries but I’m trying to avoid or delay it. My legs are weak enough now. Scared to make it worse. We’re in a house we couldn’t afford to finance today. Broke but my wife owns some land. It’s been in her family a long time. If I don’t get my shit together I’ll be the reason our kids don’t get it. |
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: If the economy collapses, will there even be banks to collect? In that type of environment, how would bank agents and bill collectors fare? Hell just before the collapse you could pay off your mortgage in either super inflated currency or in specie. I doubt that there's ever been a time when the entire banking infrastructure of the country collapsed. They came close in the 19-oughts with the collapse caused by the speculation going on leading up to that collapse. If it hadnt been one or two guys coming together at that time it would have been much worse than it was |
*post contains personal opinion only and should not be considered information released in an official capacity*
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Originally Posted By Karankawa: How is it I just found this thread? Love me some doom. It seems to me that there will be lots of loss but also the possibility to become massively wealthy soon. Just have to be quick to notice and able to react accordingly. It looks like Iran is owning Israel and will control much of the Middle East. They won’t surrender and the more they are attacked the more support they get. None of this comes as a surprise since I watch Harrison Smith. He’s been spot on calling it before it happens. I’m expecting a slower collapse as the USD is shunned. Some sociopathic pricks in Israel thought they could subvert and replace the US as the world’s leader and trigger the return of the messiah. Instead everyone is turning on them. If we try to stay in to take out Iran a draft and massive loss of life will be inevitable. It’s a long term plan to break the US. Chabad isn’t exactly hiding it. They’re the ones supplying the IDF with the greater Israel and now Temple Mount patches. The audacity of believing you can trigger biblical prophecies astounds me. I was on track to be out of debt in two or three years aside from our mortgage. Possibly able to retire in five. It’s looking increasingly less likely I can continue working. Haven’t in a couple months now. I’m currently on disability after back surgery. Need two more surgeries but I’m trying to avoid or delay it. My legs are weak enough now. Scared to make it worse. We’re in a house we couldn’t afford to finance today. Broke but my wife owns some land. It’s been in her family a long time. If I don’t get my shit together I’ll be the reason our kids don’t get it. Reference the above in bold….. 
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"It behooves every man to remember that the work of the critic is of altogether secondary importance, and that, in the end, progress is accomplished by the man who does things."
Theodore Roosevelt
Theodore Roosevelt
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Originally Posted By ColtRifle: Reference the above in bold….. https://media3.giphy.com/media/bjB3gtFvREqqr5NAHW/200.webp?cid=8dc8958cpcxki0oejvkipuonaug47xvr4akv4umbjxluu5sv&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g 
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A Nation of Sheep Breeds a Government of Wolves!!!
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Not a bad prediction OP! From what I am reading at $120/barrel of oil the economy will go into recession. It has been flirting $120. Outlook is uncertain, but looks like it could go very south: https://www.unz.com/runz/donald-trump-and-the-downfall-of-the-american-empire/ After several weeks of disaster in the middle east, the legacy media is starting to catch up: Attached File ChatGPT's advice for this scenario: If the war in iran continues and iran controls the strait of Hormuz going forward, and the petrodollar collapses, what are the best investment and money saving strategies? You’re describing a high-stress macro scenario: prolonged conflict involving Iran, disruption of the Strait of Hormuz, and potential weakening of the dollar system. That’s not just a “market event”—that’s a global regime shift. The right approach isn’t one bet, it’s layered resilience + selective upside exposure. Let’s walk through this in a grounded, reality-based way. ⚠️ First: What this scenario actually implies If Iran controls Hormuz long-term: ~20% of global oil supply is disrupted Energy prices spike and stay elevated Supply chains tighten globally Inflation rises (especially food, transport, utilities) Governments intervene (price controls, subsidies, rationing) Recent reporting already shows: Oil and gas disruptions pushing prices higher and damaging infrastructure Fuel shortages and lifestyle changes globally 👉 This is inflationary + volatile, not a normal recession. 🧭 Core Strategy: 4-Layer Defense Plan 1️⃣ Protect purchasing power (MOST IMPORTANT) ✅ Hard assets Gold & silver (monetary hedge) Energy exposure (oil, pipelines) Real estate (selectively) Why: These tend to hold value when currencies weaken 2️⃣ Own energy & resource producers If Hormuz is constrained: Oil prices rise Gas prices spike even more (less flexible supply) 👉 Best-positioned assets: U.S. oil producers (less dependent on Hormuz) LNG exporters Pipeline/infrastructure companies Key insight: Energy becomes structurally scarce, not just temporarily expensive. 3️⃣ Reduce exposure to vulnerable assets ⚠️ At risk: Long-duration bonds (inflation killer) High-growth tech (rate-sensitive) Countries heavily dependent on imported energy (Europe, parts of Asia) 4️⃣ Increase personal resilience (often overlooked) This matters more than most portfolios in this scenario: Practical moves: Lock in fixed-rate debt (inflation benefits you) Reduce variable-rate exposure Build cash buffer (6–12 months) Consider partial energy independence: Solar + battery (huge hedge if fuel spikes) Efficient vehicles This is exactly what people are already doing in response to fuel shocks |
per aspera ad astra
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Originally Posted By ROCK6: Partially screwed update. I won't say completely screwed, but the wife just had major surgery (six weeks of recovery)...and diagnosed with follicular non-Hodgkins lymphoma cancer. Yes, cancer sucks. She had surgery last week and had her chemo port surgically put in on Monday. We expect to start treatment in March and it will run through August (target time for kicking the shit out the cancer and it being in remission). We have great insurance and excellent docs who are surprised she even has it considering how healthy she is, her fitness level and no other organ issues. She will need at least two years of monitoring therapy after that first six months, but should be out of the woods in August. Like my wife tells people, her cancer is like herpes (no, she’s never had herpes!); you won’t die from it, but you’ll die with it. Minor SHTF, but it’s more of life just giving you a new challenge. The wife is pissed as we had several camping trips planned now through the summer and she really wanted to do a section of trail on the AT…kind of on hold now. ROCK6 I am a DLBCL survivor from 2018. Yeah, it's survivable. Probably R-CHOP for chemo. Tell her to stay in it and fight like hell. Best of luck. |
You can't change yesterday, and tomorrow isn't guaranteed. Get your head together.
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Originally Posted By ColtRifle: Reference the above in bold….. https://media3.giphy.com/media/bjB3gtFvREqqr5NAHW/200.webp?cid=8dc8958cpcxki0oejvkipuonaug47xvr4akv4umbjxluu5sv&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=200.webp&ct=g Yes. |
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The only plausible threat to CONUS left is ICBMs/SLBMs. That’d be a single day’s attack not “a war”. No ongoing conflict with paratroopers or sappers. And practically the only thing anyone can do to prepare to MITIGATE the situation is what we all discuss when Hurricanes are inbound and your entire county is without electricity for 3 weeks. Water Food Fuel Generators/solar/wind Construction materials (ad hoc fallout shelter to limit exposure at least for initial 7 days if possible). Outside the immediate blast zone life would go on. Iran is about to experience a WORSE crisis than the nuking of cities. Nuclear explosions wouldn’t magically knock out every bridge, every power plant, every railway, every steel and petrochemical plant… |
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Originally Posted By WYPete: The only plausible threat to CONUS left is ICBMs/SLBMs. That’d be a single day’s attack not “a war”. No ongoing conflict with paratroopers or sappers. And practically the only thing anyone can do to prepare to MITIGATE the situation is what we all discuss when Hurricanes are inbound and your entire county is without electricity for 3 weeks. Water Food Fuel Generators/solar/wind Construction materials (ad hoc fallout shelter to limit exposure at least for initial 7 days if possible). Outside the immediate blast zone life would go on. Iran is about to experience a WORSE crisis than the nuking of cities. Nuclear explosions wouldn’t magically knock out every bridge, every power plant, every railway, every steel and petrochemical plant… I disagree. We have imported enough Muslims that if even half a percent were to be or become terrorists, it would paralyze the country until they were all killed after a coordinated attack. I live just a few miles from the largest Arabic Muslim population in the USA, that threat is real-and much more likely than a nuclear exchange. |
Never make another person a priority when they merely see you as an option...
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
"Some People Are Like Slinkies. They're Not Really Good For Anything, But They Bring a Smile To Your Face When Pushed Down The Stairs."
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Muslim Somalis are low IQ high emotional gangsters. They’re stupid but they’re not suicidal. Other Muslims are mostly Sunni who are enjoying their Shiite brothers get curb stomped. They have cousins across the Middle East taking fire from Iran so they are unlikely to go snack bar on us right now. The Shiite Muslim immigrants who aren’t grateful to be here are getting deported. With Iran’s currency going from 43,000 to 1 USD to 1.3 Million per dollar, any Shiite here is probably the life line to the entire clan back home. So where’s your shadow army of 10 foot tall super men? Not happening. It’s one thing to talk shit in the old country where your dad and uncles (who raped you throughout your childhood) told you to show your manhood by becoming a sleeper agent in the Great Satan…and quite frankly another thing entirely to actually get to America and see us in real life without any media BS filter. Just like leftists who don’t know they’re in a bubble… lots of people get here and are gobsmacked with what America actually looks like. I don’t see any likelihood of large numbers of foreigners willing to commit suicide by attempting sabotage campaigns. A few maybe. Not ten thousand. The 9/11 guys stayed together. But if they’d stuck around longer they would eventually have melted into the fabric of easy life. I think we over exaggerated our weaknesses and underestimated our abilities. Now, if we fire bomb tens of millions of Iranians tomorrow, sure, I can see tens of thousands of people freaking out and going postal. If you just lose your entire family in the home country you aren’t going to be sane. Completely understandable. |
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I’m originally from Detroit Michigan too. I went to school with Chaldeans. I know Dearborn. I know the Muslim population and their animosity towards their Jewish neighbors. But I also know that they know that the Caucasian majority of Michigan are armed to the teeth. They’re wary about the black population and Mexicans. But they’re terrified about what the white good ol boys will do if it’s open season. The younger hot heads might talk shit. The older, more professional original Muslims know how surrounded they are. |