Any Interest in an “Ask an RV Salesman” Thread? (Page 1 of 9)
Posted: 8/10/2021 9:50:42 AM EDT
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Since I’m a glutton for punishment (hence, salesman), I figured I would start this thread I’ve been in the industry six years now, five in sales. I work for a large family owner dealership that carries dozens of product lines. Ask away! |
Picked up a new 2020 Coachmen Apex Nano 187RB with the Outfitter and Off-Grid packages in Jan 2020. Paid $15,900 for it. Does it cost them much more than a few grand to put that thing together?  Yea, I get it, they're mostly sticks and staples. But you'd think that paying attention to the assembly would help them out on the back end when the dealer has to bill back a ton of labor for fixing all thew shotty work done at the factory. And, that doesn't include all the work I had to do to make sure water, gas, and electric wasn't gonna wear thru laying on rough cut panels. |
Award: 24/365 Most likely to be an appendix.
"Arfcom makes me happy. Arfcom is like a giant, heavily armed, dysfunctional family that smells like cheetos and gun oil." - Undefined
"Arfcom makes me happy. Arfcom is like a giant, heavily armed, dysfunctional family that smells like cheetos and gun oil." - Undefined
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Originally Posted By Doppleganger871: Picked up a new 2020 Coachmen Apex Nano 187RB with the Outfitter and Off-Grid packages in Jan 2020. Paid $15,900 for it. Does it cost them much more than a few grand to put that thing together? Yea, I get it, they're mostly sticks and staples. But you'd think that paying attention to the assembly would help them out on the back end when the dealer has to bill back a ton of labor for fixing all thew shotty work done at the factory. And, that doesn't include all the work I had to do to make sure water, gas, and electric wasn't gonna wear thru laying on rough cut panels.Sounds like a pretty good deal to me, you’d probably be able to sell it for that right now (maybe more). As for what it actually costs the manufacturer, I have no idea. But what I do know is that when purchasing materials and planning production the manufacturers are planning to the tenth of a cent. The biggest issue is that in order to turn profit, they have to make volume, and quality control will almost always take a hit when that’s the case. Campers are an extremely price sensitive product, and even raising the price by $1000 to take a little more care can have a huge effect on buyers’ decisions. |
It's probably more important to hear from the service department with regards to which one you should buy. 
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Award: 24/365 Most likely to be an appendix.
"Arfcom makes me happy. Arfcom is like a giant, heavily armed, dysfunctional family that smells like cheetos and gun oil." - Undefined
"Arfcom makes me happy. Arfcom is like a giant, heavily armed, dysfunctional family that smells like cheetos and gun oil." - Undefined
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We are RV'ers... We'll be heading down to Tampa in a few months for the big show. Is it just me, or is quality industry wide suffering horribly? We've seen several lines/manufacturers who used to build quality units shipping some real turds and hoping dealers will fix on their end. Lance comes to mind.. we toured some units in the last few months that were "WTF" levels of buggered construction. Another one.. what is the liability of a dealer who sells a unit to an uneducated couple.. and sells/installs a hitch into their truck knowing it cannot possibly handle it? The reason I ask.. I lost count of how many couples we ran into on our last trip a few months ago to Utah with dangerously overloaded rigs. Case in point.. F150 in the picture below. In talking to the couple, the payload of this truck was around #1700 pounds. 
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What is you best advice for a guy who has never owned an rv/travel trailer before but wants to buy one for: -used, new, whatever -deer lease -2-5 ppl sleep on rare occasion but mostly 1-2 -no towing limitations -maybe would take it on a trip (couple hours) 1-2 a year I have been looking at used models, but the market is crazy right now (of course). I have seen several absolute garage dumps with a list of issues still going for $6-8k. I really didnt want to spend $10-15k, but I am not sure if there is an alternative. I am on no timeline, so I might just wait it out for a year or two. |
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Originally Posted By The_Whale: If you were to buy one today knowing what you know, what brand / model would you buy? That’s a tough one, I have ones I like in just about all weight and price points for different reasons. If I had my pick it’ll be a diesel pusher of some sort |
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Originally Posted By Doppleganger871: It's probably more important to hear from the service department with regards to which one you should buy. Their opinions will be based upon what companies are the easiest to deal with in regards to warranty approval (been there, done that) |
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Originally Posted By BDA: We are RV'ers... We'll be heading down to Tampa in a few months for the big show. Is it just me, or is quality industry wide suffering horribly? We've seen several lines/manufacturers who used to build quality units shipping some real turds and hoping dealers will fix on their end. Lance comes to mind.. we toured some units in the last few months that were "WTF" levels of buggered construction. Another one.. what is the liability of a dealer who sells a unit to an uneducated couple.. and sells/installs a hitch into their truck knowing it cannot possibly handle it? The reason I ask.. I lost count of how many couples we ran into on our last trip a few months ago to Utah with dangerously overloaded rigs. Case in point.. F150 in the picture below. In talking to the couple, the payload of this truck was around #1700 pounds. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69140/overloaded-2047270.jpg WOW! Dont 5th wheel RVs push 2000 lbs of "tongue" weight? |
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Originally Posted By BDA: We are RV'ers... We'll be heading down to Tampa in a few months for the big show. Is it just me, or is quality industry wide suffering horribly? We've seen several lines/manufacturers who used to build quality units shipping some real turds and hoping dealers will fix on their end. Lance comes to mind.. we toured some units in the last few months that were "WTF" levels of buggered construction. Another one.. what is the liability of a dealer who sells a unit to an uneducated couple.. and sells/installs a hitch into their truck knowing it cannot possibly handle it? The reason I ask.. I lost count of how many couples we ran into on our last trip a few months ago to Utah with dangerously overloaded rigs. Case in point.. F150 in the picture below. In talking to the couple, the payload of this truck was around #1700 pounds. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69140/overloaded-2047270.jpg There have been some quality slides, but not as much as most people think (at least from what I’ve seen). Some manufacturers are having to use suppliers that they don’t normally purchase from, so we are seeing some of those products that aren’t quite up to quality we’re used to. As for the hitch: the salesperson and whoever installed the hitch should have known better. If they get into an accident the burden falls back on the dealer is my understanding. I’ve had to tell quite a few guys over the years that no, they cannot tow whatever they want |
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We picked the rig based on our tow rigs. I have a 2016 Jeep WK2 with the 5.7 hemi, 7200/720lb rated, Wodstock's is a 2014 WK2 with the 3.6 V6, 6200/620lb rated. Gross on this trailer is 3800, but I know we're over it, just haven't scaled it yet. Only about 450lb of cargo capacity, and a good portion of that is eaten up with two batteries, 40lb of propane, bedlift struts and reinforcement, kitchen shelf brackets and reinforcement, dinette bed reinforcements, power tongue jack, and the usual hoses/cords/leveling stuff you need to carry. Add 6 gallons of water in the water heater, some stuff in the fridge, towels, clothing, TV/mount, DVD player, some board games, dishes (plastic)/silverware/plasticware/paper stuff, towels, clothing, tools, "camping" stuff. Yea, way too easy to overload it. Hopefully the 3500lb dexter axle is under-rated. Attached File |
Award: 24/365 Most likely to be an appendix.
"Arfcom makes me happy. Arfcom is like a giant, heavily armed, dysfunctional family that smells like cheetos and gun oil." - Undefined
"Arfcom makes me happy. Arfcom is like a giant, heavily armed, dysfunctional family that smells like cheetos and gun oil." - Undefined
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Originally Posted By Doppleganger871: Picked up a new 2020 Coachmen Apex Nano 187RB with the Outfitter and Off-Grid packages in Jan 2020. Paid $15,900 for it. Does it cost them much more than a few grand to put that thing together? Yea, I get it, they're mostly sticks and staples. But you'd think that paying attention to the assembly would help them out on the back end when the dealer has to bill back a ton of labor for fixing all thew shotty work done at the factory. And, that doesn't include all the work I had to do to make sure water, gas, and electric wasn't gonna wear thru laying on rough cut panels.shoddy [ shod-ee ] adjective, shod·di·er, shod·di·est. of poor quality or inferior workmanship: a shoddy bookcase. intentionally rude or inconsiderate; shabby: shoddy behavior. noun, plural shod·dies. anything inferior, especially a handmade item or manufactured product. |
"A man can never have too much red wine, too many books, or too much ammunition" - Rudyard Kipling
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Originally Posted By sandblaster: Renegade Super C coaches any good? ETA: you are gonna jump your own post count considerably. I’ve only heard good things about them, I don’t have enough first hand experience to get a good read. You can also take a look at the Entegra Accolades or Nexus Ghost models depending on your budget and criteria |
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Originally Posted By JohnSmith6073: What brands were NOT designed by some methbilly with a laptop? Grand Design? Northwoods Desert/Arctic line? Designed or built? The guys who design them are usually pretty sharp. Those are both good lines though. Coachmen Freedom Express is a solid line too, as is their spirit line. |
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Originally Posted By ag04blast: WOW! Dont 5th wheel RVs push 2000 lbs of "tongue" weight? Originally Posted By ag04blast: Originally Posted By BDA: We are RV'ers... We'll be heading down to Tampa in a few months for the big show. Is it just me, or is quality industry wide suffering horribly? We've seen several lines/manufacturers who used to build quality units shipping some real turds and hoping dealers will fix on their end. Lance comes to mind.. we toured some units in the last few months that were "WTF" levels of buggered construction. Another one.. what is the liability of a dealer who sells a unit to an uneducated couple.. and sells/installs a hitch into their truck knowing it cannot possibly handle it? The reason I ask.. I lost count of how many couples we ran into on our last trip a few months ago to Utah with dangerously overloaded rigs. Case in point.. F150 in the picture below. In talking to the couple, the payload of this truck was around #1700 pounds. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/69140/overloaded-2047270.jpg WOW! Dont 5th wheel RVs push 2000 lbs of "tongue" weight? Yes.. exactly... that Trucks rear axle, the tires, the brakes, the frame and suspension are all way over loaded. Dangerously so for the Utah mountains. |
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Originally Posted By ag04blast: What is you best advice for a guy who has never owned an rv/travel trailer before but wants to buy one for: -used, new, whatever -deer lease -2-5 ppl sleep on rare occasion but mostly 1-2 -no towing limitations -maybe would take it on a trip (couple hours) 1-2 a year I have been looking at used models, but the market is crazy right now (of course). I have seen several absolute garage dumps with a list of issues still going for $6-8k. I really didnt want to spend $10-15k, but I am not sure if there is an alternative. I am on no timeline, so I might just wait it out for a year or two. The fact that you aren’t in a hurry is a good thing. For what you’re planning to use it for, make sure it had an enclosed underbelly with heating ducted into it so your pipes don’t freeze in the winter. You may find yourself looking into the higher range of your budget to get one that isn’t junk. Five years ago a $10k camper that was decent could be had with relative ease, not so much anymore. |
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Originally Posted By Doppleganger871: We picked the rig based on our tow rigs. I have a 2016 Jeep WK2 with the 5.7 hemi, 7200/720lb rated, Wodstock's is a 2014 WK2 with the 3.6 V6, 6200/620lb rated. Gross on this trailer is 3800, but I know we're over it, just haven't scaled it yet. Only about 450lb of cargo capacity, and a good portion of that is eaten up with two batteries, 40lb of propane, bedlift struts and reinforcement, kitchen shelf brackets and reinforcement, dinette bed reinforcements, power tongue jack, and the usual hoses/cords/leveling stuff you need to carry. Add 6 gallons of water in the water heater, some stuff in the fridge, towels, clothing, TV/mount, DVD player, some board games, dishes (plastic)/silverware/plasticware/paper stuff, towels, clothing, tools, "camping" stuff. Yea, way too easy to overload it. Hopefully the 3500lb dexter axle is under-rated. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/334993/IMG_2352_JPEG-2047287.JPG You’re probably right about being over gross. If you’re routinely traveling like that I’d look into swapping axle and springs. The potential issue that will still be there is that in the event of an accident, it’s very possible your insurance company will tell you you aren’t covered because you’re over the rated gross. I don’t want that happen to anyone |
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Our family has been talking about getting a travel trailer for a while and will more than likely bite the bullet on one towards the end of this season.... I really like the look and features of the Forest River Grey Wolf series- the 26DBH specifically. Thoughts/ opinions for a first timer? Also, I've heard in the past of all sorts of surprise fees, etc. being tacked on during the purchase process, greatly increasing the "advertised" price. What should we look out for, expect? How firm are these "advertised" prices when it comes to negotiations? Thanks! |
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Originally Posted By Calabus: Our family has been talking about getting a travel trailer for a while and will more than likely bite the bullet on one towards the end of this season.... I really like the look and features of the Forest River Grey Wolf series- the 26DBH specifically. Thoughts/ opinions for a first timer? Also, I've heard in the past of all sorts of surprise fees, etc. being tacked on during the purchase process, greatly increasing the "advertised" price. What should we look out for, expect? How firm are these "advertised" prices when it comes to negotiations? Thanks! Forest River makes some great RV's. We looked at the Grey Wolf, very nice, but very heavy. Too much for us to tow, even the 26'. We went with the Forest River Flagstaff Super Lite FKBS. All the features, much lighter and a better price point. Super happy with it.      
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"A Californian telling me about freedom.... It's like a Muslim telling me about Jesus." ~ZW17
Psalm 144: 1-2
$20 is $20
Psalm 144: 1-2
$20 is $20
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Originally Posted By DV8: Forest River makes some great RV's. We looked at the Grey Wolf, very nice, but very heavy. Too much for us to tow, even the 26'. We went with the Forest River Flagstaff Super Lite FKBS. All the features, much lighter and a better price point. Super happy with it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/CF54D80D-E1E3-4C3B-AF7F-E02AC5AC4E95-1772961.jpghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/816C9846-F39C-48DD-99B1-0287F8162DDD-1772968.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/935BE048-6A70-4DEC-8D59-BABDA5A5E122-1772965.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/0CBAA15F-FF88-4DED-9030-677AF8A92FCD-1772964.jpghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/DE1C8DF0-ECA5-4A5A-8240-DB27BC866B3F-1772969.jpghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/7C518F49-1E99-48E4-880E-7C842300440B-1772966.jpg That looks super nice. Thanks for the recommendation! We'll be sure to check it out! |
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Originally Posted By Calabus: Our family has been talking about getting a travel trailer for a while and will more than likely bite the bullet on one towards the end of this season.... I really like the look and features of the Forest River Grey Wolf series- the 26DBH specifically. Thoughts/ opinions for a first timer? Also, I've heard in the past of all sorts of surprise fees, etc. being tacked on during the purchase process, greatly increasing the "advertised" price. What should we look out for, expect? How firm are these "advertised" prices when it comes to negotiations? Thanks! If you like that layout (in person, not just online pics), then the Salem or Wildwood is an awesome floorplan that similar with a little different seating area. Everyone makes models that are similar to that with their own take on it. If concerned about fees, ask upfront. If they aren’t honest about them from the get go then I’d be a little leery. If we’re talking about MSRP vs sales price, there is almost always room to move off MSRP |
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Originally Posted By GTOMike87: I should have been more specific: year, make, model, powertrain, and payload capacity on truck as well as how many people are traveling with you and how much stuff you carry. 2020 chevy 2500 duramax/Ford 2500 7.3l 4 people. This is possible a temp home while we sell our house and move into our new one. |
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Originally Posted By Calabus: That looks super nice. Thanks for the recommendation! We'll be sure to check it out! Originally Posted By Calabus: Originally Posted By DV8: Forest River makes some great RV's. We looked at the Grey Wolf, very nice, but very heavy. Too much for us to tow, even the 26'. We went with the Forest River Flagstaff Super Lite FKBS. All the features, much lighter and a better price point. Super happy with it. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/CF54D80D-E1E3-4C3B-AF7F-E02AC5AC4E95-1772961.jpghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/816C9846-F39C-48DD-99B1-0287F8162DDD-1772968.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/935BE048-6A70-4DEC-8D59-BABDA5A5E122-1772965.jpg https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/0CBAA15F-FF88-4DED-9030-677AF8A92FCD-1772964.jpghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/DE1C8DF0-ECA5-4A5A-8240-DB27BC866B3F-1772969.jpghttps://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/63863/7C518F49-1E99-48E4-880E-7C842300440B-1772966.jpg That looks super nice. Thanks for the recommendation! We'll be sure to check it out! Flagstaff has another line, identical but with a different manufacturer name. Can't recall now. Made in same factory, same everything save exterior color. Flagstaff models are tan/brown, others are white and brown IIRC. |
"A Californian telling me about freedom.... It's like a Muslim telling me about Jesus." ~ZW17
Psalm 144: 1-2
$20 is $20
Psalm 144: 1-2
$20 is $20
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OK, here are my criteria and would very much appreciate your opinion. First time buyer (have had pop ups before) Towable trailer. Price 30K to 40K GVWR: <8,000 Tow Vehicle F150 with 11,700 towing capacity. Sleep minimum 4. Bathroom shower range fridge inside. Cross country trips. Prefer the smallest size that gives all the options. New or Used. Quality is top priority. Will exceed top end of price if there is a big quality trade off. Love to IM. |
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Originally Posted By pumbaajk: 2020 chevy 2500 duramax/Ford 2500 7.3l 4 people. This is possible a temp home while we sell our house and move into our new one. You’ll most likely be looking at something along the lines of a Grand Design Reflection, Keystone Arcadia, maybe a Solitude S Class. There are likely dozens of options out there depending on what layout you settle on. Look at the 367BHS (I believe that’s the model) Reflection and let me know what you think. |
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Originally Posted By DetroitSounds: Why do 90% of RV's have stupid swoosh designs on em? I wouldn't buy one just for that reason. Haha My best guess is that it breaks up the monotony of a big white sidewall. Also, if you have a 40’ piece of fiberglass with no designs on it any flaw or imperfection will stand out like a sore thumb. |
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Originally Posted By GTOMike87: My best guess is that it breaks up the monotony of a big white sidewall. Also, if you have a 40’ piece of fiberglass with no designs on it any flaw or imperfection will stand out like a sore thumb. Haha. THat's what I always figured but damn, they can't come up with a better design in the last 50 years?! Swooshes look horrible and cheap. Thanks for the reply! |
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Originally Posted By Arndog86: OK, here are my criteria and would very much appreciate your opinion. First time buyer (have had pop ups before) Towable trailer. Price 30K to 40K GVWR: <8,000 Tow Vehicle F150 with 11,700 towing capacity. Sleep minimum 4. Bathroom shower range fridge inside. Cross country trips. Prefer the smallest size that gives all the options. New or Used. Quality is top priority. Will exceed top end of price if there is a big quality trade off. Love to IM. You can message me if you’d like, but some things to consider: payload of truck, who will be sleeping in it all the time vs some of the time, four seasons capability needed, outside kitchen a priority or not at all? Beyond that, is there a target size you’d like to be at? I know you said smallest, but didn’t know what that meant to you. |
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Originally Posted By DV8: Flagstaff has another line, identical but with a different manufacturer name. Can't recall now. Made in same factory, same everything save exterior color. Flagstaff models are tan/brown, others are white and brown IIRC. Rockwood. Which is the path we took. Rockwood and Flagstaff seem to be very similar but they are always at different dealers, never at the same dealer. As such we have loved our Rockwood, build quality has been way better than average. |
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Originally Posted By FreeAmerican: Rockwood. Which is the path we took. Rockwood and Flagstaff seem to be very similar but they are always at different dealers, never at the same dealer. As such we have loved our Rockwood, build quality has been way better than average. Originally Posted By FreeAmerican: Originally Posted By DV8: Flagstaff has another line, identical but with a different manufacturer name. Can't recall now. Made in same factory, same everything save exterior color. Flagstaff models are tan/brown, others are white and brown IIRC. Rockwood. Which is the path we took. Rockwood and Flagstaff seem to be very similar but they are always at different dealers, never at the same dealer. As such we have loved our Rockwood, build quality has been way better than average. YES!! That is it. The dealer I purchased from has two locations, one in Longs SC (North Myrtle Beach) and another in Virginia. The Virginia location has a Flagstaff dealer within a certain geographic area so they can't offer Flagstaff, so they sell Rockwood. I have several clients who are RV dealers and they all praise Flagstaff and Rockwood for some of the best QC in the business. Never as good as the customer RV makers, but very good. We bought a 21' Flagstaff Forest River Micro Lite first. Our best friends loved it so much, the bought it from us and we bought the 26'. We only had the 21' for six months. He is a cabinet maker and remarked how well it is made. |
"A Californian telling me about freedom.... It's like a Muslim telling me about Jesus." ~ZW17
Psalm 144: 1-2
$20 is $20
Psalm 144: 1-2
$20 is $20
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Originally Posted By GTOMike87: We do not. The closest things we carry are the Winnebago Revel and the Thor Sanctuary. Originally Posted By GTOMike87: Originally Posted By RumbleTruck: Does your dealership carry Storyteller Overland? We do not. The closest things we carry are the Winnebago Revel and the Thor Sanctuary. Thanks |
Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
1 Corinthians 16:13
1 Corinthians 16:13
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I don't know if you also deal in motor homes, but I have been thinking about buying another in the next year or so. I bought new in 2005, but only kept that unit for 3 years or so. (Newmar, Dutch Star, 40ft., quad slide) Prices have really gotten outrageous for new units. I am lookin at Class A units around 40', 3-4 slides, from mid range name brands. I do see some pretty nice rigs for $85-$100K and wonder how much I might need to spend on repairs and replacements in the first year? Tiffin, Monaco, etc. from 2004-2008 seem well built and I am assuming most with less that 100K miles to still have some life left in them due to being diesel and solid construction. I will put 10K miles or less on per year, and also wonder if there are any extended warranties worth a damn for a new owner? |
You can lead a liberal to knowledge, but you can't make him think.
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Originally Posted By GTOMike87: You're probably right about being over gross. If you're routinely traveling like that I'd look into swapping axle and springs. The potential issue that will still be there is that in the event of an accident, it's very possible your insurance company will tell you you aren't covered because you're over the rated gross. I don't want that happen to anyone Yea, that's my worry. But, the new 2021's have the 4400# axle under them, same chassis and body. So, I wonder if Coachmen would be OK to reclassify the gross weight if the axle upgrade was done. |
Award: 24/365 Most likely to be an appendix.
"Arfcom makes me happy. Arfcom is like a giant, heavily armed, dysfunctional family that smells like cheetos and gun oil." - Undefined
"Arfcom makes me happy. Arfcom is like a giant, heavily armed, dysfunctional family that smells like cheetos and gun oil." - Undefined