[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Pigs 2009 (Page 3 of 5)
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You rock....that was great... 
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Quoted: Feral. How bad is the smell. Do you use lime to kill the odor? If the wind's just right, they're rather smelly. Pig shit is pretty odiferous. We've never smelled them in the house though and for the most part I doon't smell them. I attribute that to giving them ample space. |
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Feral. How bad is the smell. Do you use lime to kill the odor? If the wind's just right, they're rather smelly. Pig shit is pretty odiferous. We've never smelled them in the house though and for the most part I doon't smell them. I attribute that to giving them ample space. I was talking to my uncle on sunday about rasing a few pigs. He was telling me you can get a truck load of lime for cheap and it does a good job of controling odar. |
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Quoted: I was talking to my uncle on sunday about rasing a few pigs. He was telling me you can get a truck load of lime for cheap and it does a good job of controling odar. The odor really isn't that much of an issue if you have the pigs in a decent amount of space. If you're jammed up against neighbors it might be a problem though. I can't cite a good reason not to spread lime......but I wouldn't do it. Pigs root around to much to make happy about liming their living quarters. |
| You mentioned (maybe in a different thread) that your last batch of hogs ended up being pretty lean and that you might need to ask for more fat from the butcher to make a decent sausage. Lard is still available in buckets at grocery stores around here and I think it can replace fresh fat successfully. Unless it is specifically needed in the recipe, say summer or smoked sausages for example, I think I'd leave the meat lean and add extra fat as needed when cooking it. I think you are going to need more fat, as those hogs don't seem to have an excess of it. |
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Quoted: You mentioned (maybe in a different thread) that your last batch of hogs ended up being pretty lean and that you might need to ask for more fat from the butcher to make a decent sausage. Lard is still available in buckets at grocery stores around here and I think it can replace fresh fat successfully. Unless it is specifically needed in the recipe, say summer or smoked sausages for example, I think I'd leave the meat lean and add extra fat as needed when cooking it. I think you are going to need more fat, as those hogs don't seem to have an excess of it. The issue is most pressing with respect to sausage stuffed in casings. Can't add extra fat once the sausage is cased. As long as we stick to bulk sausage, it's no big deal. I can get lard in the local supermarket too. But it kinda defeats the purpose of raising my own pigs (and knowing what's in them) to buy mass market additives. I think what I really need to do is look into heritage breeds of pigs that are more lardy than the super-lean feeder pigs that I've been dealing with. I'm leaning in that direction and am even tentatively willing to farrow my own. |
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Quoted: Awwww, they are so cute & innocent...no idea of the sledge hammer that's about to drop on em! All the best with that, I hope they taste most excellent! I am gonna try home curing bacon this week....wish me luck!  We're doing our own this year too. What recipe are you using? |
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Awwww, they are so cute & innocent...no idea of the sledge hammer that's about to drop on em! All the best with that, I hope they taste most excellent! I am gonna try home curing bacon this week....wish me luck!
We're doing our own this year too. What recipe are you using? Feral, Awesome info as usual. Do you have a smoker? Story books produces a small pamplet on constructing different ones. (I could send you a copy) Where you are at now is light years ahead of most of people for dealing with SHTF, but we all need to be at the level of reproducing stock and having the ability to havest what we raise to be at the ultimate level of self reliance. |
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You mentioned (maybe in a different thread) that your last batch of hogs ended up being pretty lean and that you might need to ask for more fat from the butcher to make a decent sausage. Lard is still available in buckets at grocery stores around here and I think it can replace fresh fat successfully. Unless it is specifically needed in the recipe, say summer or smoked sausages for example, I think I'd leave the meat lean and add extra fat as needed when cooking it. I think you are going to need more fat, as those hogs don't seem to have an excess of it. The issue is most pressing with respect to sausage stuffed in casings. Can't add extra fat once the sausage is cased. As long as we stick to bulk sausage, it's no big deal. I can get lard in the local supermarket too. But it kinda defeats the purpose of raising my own pigs (and knowing what's in them) to buy mass market additives. I think what I really need to do is look into heritage breeds of pigs that are more lardy than the super-lean feeder pigs that I've been dealing with. I'm leaning in that direction and am even tentatively willing to farrow my own. To be perfectly honest with you, I've not seen a pig with much fat on them at all. The only pigs I've seen with any appreciable lard on them are pot-belly pigs. All the other breeds have been bred to be leaner for the market for decades now. It'll be a chore to find some breed stock that are fat. |
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Quoted: Awesome info as usual. Do you have a smoker? Story books produces a small pamplet on constructing different ones. (I could send you a copy) Thank you for the kind offer.  I actually have that one as well as the Marianski's excellent book. It's on my list of long term projects to build a smokehouse. The plan, thus far, is to build a small house with an offset firepit built from fieldstones that I've accumulated. Just have to find the time to do it. At this point all I have is a Weber Smokey Mountain smoker and the small one at that. I don't think it's big enough to do hams in, but I'm gonna finish our bacons in it. I was going to buy a Bradley smoker as a kind of interim measure, but time and funds preclude that. So this year I'll let the butcher do the hams again. |
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Quoted: To be perfectly honest with you, I've not seen a pig with much fat on them at all. The only pigs I've seen with any appreciable lard on them are pot-belly pigs. All the other breeds have been bred to be leaner for the market for decades now. It'll be a chore to find some breed stock that are fat. I have an interest in large black hogs because they're reputed to not root very much which makes them attractive to turn out on a small parcel of land. I don't think they're especially lardy though. Gonna go see some in a few weeks. |
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I was fooling with going to a heritage breed.
Folks across the river from me had Ossabaws and were getting out, and offered me their breeding stock CHEAP, but I dawdled too long. Couldn't decide, as they are slow growing,and smaller, although I see good and bad in both traits. Did read some about the large blacks and they seem promising. I'm not sure WHAT is going on around here: last month I posted the local ad where the young kid couldn't sell his hogs via the 4H auction, so his dad listed them at $0.50/lb liveweight, DELIVERED to butcher! This week, someone had a few at $0.65, delivered! Wife was screaming, "BUY, BUY BUY" but the kids had too much fun raising our own. (And we're still eating on the 3 I kept this past spring  )
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Quoted: This week, someone had a few at $0.65, delivered! Wife was screaming, "BUY, BUY BUY" but the kids had too much fun raising our own. (And we're still eating on the 3 I kept this past spring )Saw some on Craig's list this week: 250 lb market hogs for $125. I can't even get close to that.....it costs me that in feed to go from 40 pounder to slaughter weight.  |
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To be perfectly honest with you, I've not seen a pig with much fat on them at all. The only pigs I've seen with any appreciable lard on them are pot-belly pigs. All the other breeds have been bred to be leaner for the market for decades now. It'll be a chore to find some breed stock that are fat. The last market hogs I remember seeing that were rolling in fat were raised many years ago by my grandfather. They were fed a ration consisting primarily of bread he acquired that had gone stale and was "returned" to the bakery. Like I already mentioned, those hogs were rolling in fat when they moved. The result from the butcher was not very satisfactory, as the fat was soft or "mushy" and it gave the sausage an objectionable texture. We ate it, though. |
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Saw some on Craig's list this week: 250 lb market hogs for $125. I can't even get close to that.....it costs me that in feed to go from 40 pounder to slaughter weight. Due to the vertical integration in modern commercial production of most farm products, you will probably NEVER be able to produce food items as cheaply as they can. True, you can volunteer your labor vs them having to pay for it but they have almost no labor per unit produced, whereas you are spending hours per unit produced. They are feeding commodity grains obtained at prices discounted for bulk deliveries while you are stuck with retail prices. Remember that at this point you are still learning and are still perfecting a system that works for you. And remember, too, that the $125 price is not really retail price in this case; retail prices are going to be more like $2-$3 per pound of wrapped meat. Sausage has been about $3 per pound in the stores here recently. |
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Saw some on Craig's list this week: 250 lb market hogs for $125. I can't even get close to that.....it costs me that in feed to go from 40 pounder to slaughter weight. Due to the vertical integration in modern commercial production of most farm products, you will probably NEVER be able to produce food items as cheaply as they can. True, you can volunteer your labor vs them having to pay for it but they have almost no labor per unit produced, whereas you are spending hours per unit produced. They are feeding commodity grains obtained at prices discounted for bulk deliveries while you are stuck with retail prices. Remember that at this point you are still learning and are still perfecting a system that works for you. And remember, too, that the $125 price is not really retail price in this case; retail prices are going to be more like $2-$3 per pound of wrapped meat. Sausage has been about $3 per pound in the stores here recently. True, and I fully understand that, but these, at least in my case, are not large producers,or even mid-sized ones. Folks with at most, 6 or 8 feeders they grew out and usually only 2 or 3. They are paying the same as me for feed, or most likely, considerably more, as I am a scrounger/cheapskate of considerable note.
These are folks who raised them on a whim, or whose kids had them for a project, then all of the sudden, their hogs are 240-300 lbs, eating a BUNCH of feed/money, and they just want them GONE! Also fully understand retail vs live costs, but all I said was I can't grow them out for $0.50/lb. |
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all of the sudden, their hogs are 240-300 lbs, eating a BUNCH of feed/money, and they just want them GONE! Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking as I posted earlier. Thanks. It reinforces that it is a good idea to have some ready cash available so you can take advantage of a good deal when one comes along. |
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Quoted: Quoted: all of the sudden, their hogs are 240-300 lbs, eating a BUNCH of feed/money, and they just want them GONE! Yes, this is exactly what I was thinking as I posted earlier. Thanks. It reinforces that it is a good idea to have some ready cash available so you can take advantage of a good deal when one comes along. I didn't think about those folks. A bunch of hogs with no clear cut destination would definitely wear out their welcome pretty quick. A half dozen market hogs would cost me ~$15 a day to feed which isn't trivial. I'd want them gone too if I had no plans to eat them. But I'd take them to auction before selling them at fire sale prices. As far as the economics of feeding hogs goes, I found it interesting that it would actually cost me $10 more a ton to have feed delivered and augured into a bin than it costs to buy it in 100 pound bags at the mill. At least withg this particular mill, you don't get a good bulk price until you buy 10 tons at a time. |
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As far as the economics of feeding hogs goes, I found it interesting that it would actually cost me $10 more a ton to have feed delivered and augured into a bin than it costs to buy it in 100 pound bags at the mill. At least withg this particular mill, you don't get a good bulk price until you buy 10 tons at a time What about if you do the hauling? The reason I ask is that I am seeing more and more farmers hauling very large white bags of feed. These bags are about 4 ft x 4 ft x4 ft and hold 1,000-1,500 pounds. They seem to be like a large canvas bucket. The mill augers bulk feed into the bag that is in the back of a truck on their scales. The ones I know lift the bags from their trucks using the front loader on their tractors. Something else you might look into again before your next batch of pigs is mixing your own feed. Buy a bulk load of ground corn and add the other ingredients free choice or by hand. |
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Quoted: What about if you do the hauling? The reason I ask is that I am seeing more and more farmers hauling very large white bags of feed. These bags are about 4 ft x 4 ft x4 ft and hold 1,000-1,500 pounds. They seem to be like a large canvas bucket. The mill augers bulk feed into the bag that is in the back of a truck on their scales. The ones I know lift the bags from their trucks using the front loader on their tractors. I don't know. Interesting though.....I'll look into it. Any idea where such bags can be found? |
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I think we posted about buying in bulk before and I mentioned some sample rations. Here is a summary of a ration:
16% Hog Grower Pellets: Corn, ground 63% Wheat middlings 17% Soybean Meal 16% Alfalfa Meal 1% Limestone, ground 1% Dicalcium Phosphate 1% Salt, trace minerals and pellet binding agent 1% A similar ration for 18% Pig Starter Pellets uses 60% corn, 10% wheat, and 23% soybean meal; the other ingredients are essentially the same. What I am trying to point out is that commercial rations for growing hogs consist primarily of ground corn. I think that you can get ground corn in bulk to feed free-choice in your feeder and hand feed some soyeban meal and alfalfa, maybe some wheat, and cut the per pound price of your feed considerably. Get a salt block and put out a trough for trace mineral mix. Of course, all of this depends upon what is locally available. If the price of bulk ground corn isn't any cheaper than the complete ration mix you are already buying then this isn't a good idea. |
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I don't know. Interesting though.....I'll look into it. Any idea where such bags can be found? I think they are getting the bags from the mill they get the feed from. I have a buddy that feeds this way. I'll try to catch up with him and find out more details. eta: Google Image search for "bulk bag container" to see the bags I'm talking about. It looks like they are called" Flexible Intermediate Bulk Container (FIBC) bags." ETA: eBay has them for $9 |
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It is my understanding that the bags are supported by their contents. As the feed is used, the tops would collapse down to the level of the feed. The ones I have seen have a top flap to fold over, much like an army duffle bag.
Some bags have a funnel-like appendage on the bottom to dispense its' product. It looks like those particular bags I linked to on eBay have that feature. In order to use that, you'd have to be able to suspend the bag. I'm not sure that would be a good idea with young kids around. I'd lug it in a couple of trips using five gallon buckets or scoop it into empty feed sacks and carry it to the feeder. You could set full buckets of feed into your front-end loader and use it to haul them to the feeder, or a wheelbarrow, etc. |
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I can shave $1.25 per hundredweight off feed costs using one of those bags. I'm definitely going to look further into that for next time around. The pigs will get hauled to the processor tomorrow evening. I'm thankful they're going up in the trailer as of this morning. Hopefully I'll get 'em loaded without issue tomorrow. No feed through the day tomorrow should make it straightforward. Our household is host to the bronchitis that's going around. Everyone feels pretty shitty right now. I won't be shedding any tears when these hogs leave.  |
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How much could you save if you changed to feeding plain ground corn? The approx. $30 you'd save at $1.25 per hundred might not be worth your trouble. Or it might be even MORE convenient, making only one trip to the feed store.
I figure you could feed them 50 or 75 pounds of pig starter each and then switch to bulk purchased ground corn for a while, especially if you are supplementing from the garden. You could add some soybean meal to the corn in their feeder if you feel the need to get the protein higher. I don't know how it happened but when you first posted pics of this batch as young pigs I saw good looking pigs. Now when I see their pic all I can see is bacon, hams, and sausage. |
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How much could you save if you changed to feeding plain ground corn? The approx. $30 you'd save at $1.25 per hundred might not be worth your trouble. Or it might be even MORE convenient, making only one trip to the feed store. I figure you could feed them 50 or 75 pounds of pig starter each and then switch to bulk purchased ground corn for a while, especially if you are supplementing from the garden. You could add some soybean meal to the corn in their feeder if you feel the need to get the protein higher. Ground corn here is $147 per 1000 pounds.......so I can't really save anything going that route. I don't know how it happened but when you first posted pics of this batch as young pigs I saw good looking pigs. Now when I see their pic all I can see is bacon, hams, and sausage. No kidding......they have some pretty nice hams now. 
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I can shave $1.25 per hundredweight off feed costs using one of those bags. I'm definitely going to look further into that for next time around. The pigs will get hauled to the processor tomorrow evening. I'm thankful they're going up in the trailer as of this morning. Hopefully I'll get 'em loaded without issue tomorrow. No feed through the day tomorrow should make it straightforward. Our household is host to the bronchitis that's going around. Everyone feels pretty shitty right now. I won't be shedding any tears when these hogs leave. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/FredFeral/IMG_2356.jpg Bye Bye piggies...I call the one up front, portrait of Bacon.... 
Mmmmmmmmmmm bacon........
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I STILL haven't got my feeders yet. Was hoping to pick them up a couple weeks ago.Either folks want to much $$$, or not ready yet.
And I keep running into $.50-0.65 live weight, finished hogs. Keep tempting me, but I LIKE having them around. Then I see this this morning: 
"We have a pig that has become a very big problem. She was brought to our home as she was rescued from people who didn't take care of her. We took care of her and she is in much better shape now. However, she is terribly unhappy and has destroyed several pig fences trying to escape. I am forced with the very unhappy decision to get rid of her. Although many may disagree, I believe that finding her another home may be more traumatic for her, and I woudn't want a pig that bites and breaks fences going to people that aren't prepared for the trouble she would cause. I am looking for someone to come out to my place and dispatch her quickly and painlessly. They are welcome to take the meat. She isn't a large pig and is still a little underweight. This would have to be done this week (November 1st). I love pigs and have had many as pets and rescues, however, I know when it is time for a pig to go, no matter how sad it is. Thanks. " Man, if I was REALLY looking to get cheap meat....
They look good feral, thanks for taking us along for the ride. |
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Feral,
Thanks for another great thread. I've enjoyed every bit of it and am looking forward to the inevitable smoking and further processing threads to come. Sensing the end of this saga, I have been re-reading the entire post. I hereby nominate Feral's "Pig Escape" as ARFCOM MS Paint-of-the-year! |
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Feral, Thanks for another great thread. I've enjoyed every bit of it and am looking forward to the inevitable smoking and further processing threads to come. Sensing the end of this saga, I have been re-reading the entire post. I hereby nominate Feral's "Pig Escape" as ARFCOM MS Paint-of-the-year! Thanks, man. My one and only MS Paint. 
Hell, might not even have to post any processing pics after that nice bacon thread that was just posted. And yes, I have plenty of Foodsaver material.
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Guys,
WE'RE NOT SELLING WHOLESALE HERE. I get top dollar because I feed top dollar (mostly) and spoil the shit ouf of them and feed them all kinds of interesting stuff. They taste awesome because they east awesome, (not the cheapest shit around) and they grow up lean. marketing baby, it's all about marketing. There is no real difference between Kraft Mac & cheese and regular generic Mac and cheese. Except about $1/box. I'm selling retail, farm fresh, the best damn pork you've ever eaten pigs here. Factory farms get shit for pigs because they are selling wholesale and raising wholesale. My model isnt' scalable, but it makes money. See all those people who overpaid for their Prius's with the smug coming out the tailpipe and the obama stickers on the back. They pay top freaking dollar for farm fresh food. (and I"m happy to take it from them) |
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I home butcher 2 or more hogs a year. I get them from 2 friends. They are downers(bad leg, back, bellie rupture what ever) so they are free for the taking.
Farmer 1 all confinment very lean pigs Farmer 2 old school raised out side and get garden leftovers. Care to guess what pig cuts and taste the best? Farmer 1's son is a very good friend when he was over for pork chops that came from farmer 2 he couldnt belive how much better they were than what he was used to. |
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WE'RE NOT SELLING WHOLESALE HERE. I get top dollar because I feed top dollar (mostly) and spoil the shit ouf of them and feed them all kinds of interesting stuff. They taste awesome because they east awesome, (not the cheapest shit around) and they grow up lean. marketing baby, it's all about marketing. I agree.....gotta find folks willing to pay top dollar for top quality product. I'm making a little money at $2.25 per pound hanging weight. Nothing stellar but enough to defray costs a bit which is acceptable to me. |
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Care to guess what pig cuts and taste the best? Farmer 1's son is a very good friend when he was over for pork chops that came from farmer 2 he couldnt belive how much better they were than what he was used to. I'm gonna restrict activity a little more in the last month than I have been, but I'll never do a confinement model. It just wouldn't be worth it to me for what I'm doing here. |