[ARCHIVED THREAD] - A few things i have learned so far from the tornado disaster in Alabama (Page 2 of 5)
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Civillian help for searching is extreamly welcome as is delivering supplies to search teams. Someone else asked but I did not see an answer. Have you seen any CERT members, or do you know if there are any CERT programs in the area? Had another question about communication. What roll do cell phones play? Great alternative to dedicated agency radio, or last choice after smoke signals? we have several cert groups that show up at the ham fests and such. i have seen non of them on scene nor in uniform. i also suspect they would be kept out of the search areas along with everyone else right now. cell phones are just now begining to become useable again. for 48 hours they were effectiviely useless here. text messageing was also dead but oddly data was up. i could send emails and access the net on ym phone but voice and text were jammed. |
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Interesting comment on the commo.
Many National and Local agencies in my area staged a mock disaster/terrorist attack 6-7 years ago, and that was their number one finding was they needed to improve inter-agency communication equipment between Federal and Local responders. Hopefully they have it sorted out if anything bad does happen in my area. |
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Thank you for the detailed report TBS, it is valuable to many of us.
Re: FRS radio range, we have run tests [at night] and have found with the Motorola FRS, don't have model handy, mid-priced one, we can communicate 15 miles from high terrain to low. The Midlands are our preference and I think they would do better. At that kind of distance antenna alignment becomes an issue. Having a reflector at abt 1/4 wavelength behind the radio cleans things up. [Also keep that trick in mind for cellphones if you are ever in a weak sig area, 1/4 mesh screen wire works well and you can talk thru it. Use a screen a couple wavelengths square.] The TriSquares we've tested [at 900 mhz] don't have as much range as FRS. They can be used with one of the devices I linked to above but the arrangement can be a little more complicated. The advantage is a higher level of security and less interference than NFM radios. At VHF and UHF [FRS] frequencies, IIRC, [haven't experimented over water], over water there is more propagation atten/loss close to the water and although line of sight, range may be considerably less. The optimum use for the device I linked to above is when you have a high elevation [or a tall structure] to place it on... 5 miles is a practical goal with a good location and low interference. The potential for malicious interference is high, there might be workarounds, especially the TriSquare -with lesser range [in countries where regulations permit. And yes they exist  ]
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Thank you for the detailed report TBS, it is valuable to many of us. Re: FRS radio range, we have run tests [at night] and have found with the Motorola FRS, don't have model handy, mid-priced one, we can communicate 15 miles from high terrain to low. The Midlands are our preference and I think they would do better. At that kind of distance antenna alignment becomes an issue. Having a reflector at abt 1/4 wavelength behind the radio cleans things up. [Also keep that trick in mind for cellphones if you are ever in a weak sig area, 1/4 mesh screen wire works well and you can talk thru it. Use a screen a couple wavelengths square.] The TriSquares we've tested [at 900 mhz] don't have as much range as FRS. They can be used with one of the devices I linked to above but the arrangement can be a little more complicated. The advantage is a higher level of security and less interference than NFM radios. At VHF and UHF [FRS] frequencies, IIRC, [haven't experimented over water], over water there is more propagation atten/loss close to the water and although line of sight, range may be considerably less. The optimum use for the device I linked to above is when you have a high elevation [or a tall structure] to place it on... 5 miles is a practical goal with a good location and low interference. The potential for malicious interference is high, there might be workarounds, especially the TriSquare -with lesser range [in countries where regulations permit. And yes they exist ]
your statement above shows your not JUST using a blister pack radio to achieve that and your also not doing something the average joe is capable of. |
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.................. the fed was taking over security and their rules of engagement on looters is more or less shoot on sight. Fuck the fed. Every property owner should be authorized to do this. The goddamn fed will shoot you in your own front yard before they will shoot a looter. |
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Thank you for the detailed report TBS, it is valuable to many of us. Re: FRS radio range, we have run tests [at night] and have found with the Motorola FRS, don't have model handy, mid-priced one, we can communicate 15 miles from high terrain to low. The Midlands are our preference and I think they would do better. At that kind of distance antenna alignment becomes an issue. Having a reflector at abt 1/4 wavelength behind the radio cleans things up. [Also keep that trick in mind for cellphones if you are ever in a weak sig area, 1/4 mesh screen wire works well and you can talk thru it. Use a screen a couple wavelengths square.] The TriSquares we've tested [at 900 mhz] don't have as much range as FRS. They can be used with one of the devices I linked to above but the arrangement can be a little more complicated. The advantage is a higher level of security and less interference than NFM radios. At VHF and UHF [FRS] frequencies, IIRC, [haven't experimented over water], over water there is more propagation atten/loss close to the water and although line of sight, range may be considerably less. The optimum use for the device I linked to above is when you have a high elevation [or a tall structure] to place it on... 5 miles is a practical goal with a good location and low interference. The potential for malicious interference is high, there might be workarounds, especially the TriSquare -with lesser range [in countries where regulations permit. And yes they exist ]
your statement above shows your not JUST using a blister pack radio to achieve that and your also not doing something the average joe is capable of. Correct, you need to read the ENTIRE content of your TOPIC.
Except any average Joe is able to do what I linked to Rusty -in this topic. It's VERY easy. Check the legality before you do it as I've said with each mention. Oh, just reread your post, the Motorola's ARE blister pack radios from W-M. |
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make that work consistently in terrain that looks like WWII berlin on the move and i will be impressed.
in a disater i don't have the time nor desire to monkey with jury rigged gear "hoping" it works consistantly. the majority of people here with radios are Hams or emerency responders. if legality goes out the window i can easily covert my vx7 for use on frs/gmrs/ham and most PS bands here in the area. i also have the abilty to listen to pretty much all PS except for trunck systems to include aircraft. if i need better signal i can easily sling an antenna 50ft of the ground and use the radio directly with it. even better for under 500.00 i have 2 ht's and a 50wt mobile in the car that will xband giving me an on the fly repeater system if needed. i could use a tin can 9volt battery and coat hanger to transmit morse code too, it doesn't make it a workable or reliable system in a disaster. if you want to talk to bubba in the tree stand on the next hill that fine. if your standing in a downpour pulling bodies out of a collapsed building your quickly going to be shit out of luck with gmrs/frs radios. your not going to hear or talk to anyone usefull. that is my point. the lesson i got from this event is that money spent in the right place ahead of time makes life easier. it's not having radio gear, it's having the right gear. for the record cb is completely dead here. the radio in my truck has been mostly silent since thursday morning. that has been a bit surprising as most of the garbage and construction crews around here use them. |
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I was really wishing I had a radio a few nights ago when it looked like we were going to get some 'naders here. I guess it's time to go ahead and order some. I haven't been able to get to a test yet, hopefully that will change..I need to see when the next one is that I could make it to. |
| We are closer to the alabama line and even 2 hours away from the worst of it there are runs on things around here. My wife and one of her friends are taking a loaded trailer of supplies and some of my tools to help some close friends and family out. Our home depot wasn't empty quite few pwople were packing up loads to head that way to help others out. Stock up now while this is still fresh in your mind. |
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My place on lake Erie got hit by a tornado last June. While our neighborhood looked just as devastated as many I've seen on the news down south, the path of the tornado was much smaller, but it still made a direct hit on the nuke plant across the inlet from us, and damaged it enough to shut it down. The neighborhood had been filled with these huge , towering old poplar trees, and they were the biggest cause of the damage-huge branches, and entire trees came down, and smashed everything below-they took out all the power lines and poles,too. The houses with no trees around had relatively minor damage. Ours caught a glancing blow from a big branch, which messed up the roof and side of the house. Everywhere you looked was filled with heaps of branches,and crap was blown all over the place-boats,decks,you name it. Fortunately, no one was injured or killed by this storm.
The morning after the tornado (It hit at 2am), I was down there, and the street was already jammed with carloads of gawkers from outside-homeowners were busy trying to secure their places, and these people were seriously getting in the way. The local police finally set up a roadblock at the entrance to chase these thrillseekers away. The Red Cross was there quickly, passing out water and packets of cookies, and asking if anyone needed assistance or shelter. The 'disaster recovery' contractors sure materialized fast,too-there were guys driving up and down the street trying to get you to sign a contract with them, and there were crews of guys nailing tarps over damaged roofs, and boarding up windows by noon. I looked at the shattered poles and downed wires, and figured we would be without power for a couple of weeks-the power company contractors had the poles either patched up or replaced,and all the wires strung up and connected in a little less than two days  Our neighborhood is full of good people, and we all pitched in and helped each other the best we could.
Almost a year later, you would never know anything had ever happened out here-some of us say that it was the best thing that ever happened to our neighborhood  -all those huge old trees are gone, and it seems like everyone who had a damaged home used that occasion to have it fixed up better than before-where there were old, run-down looking cottages before,there are big new houses now. The fences around our place,that were looking pretty junky, got smashed, and now they are nice and new. Without the worry of that big tree leaning over my house and yard, I finally had the deck I'd always wanted built.
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oddly enough i have not hear much from ares or races. most of the aid has been coming from individual hams and local radio clubs assisting with shelter coms. The traffic on 146.880 IS Jefferson County ARES, in coordination with the Jeffco EOC, and NGO agencies. N4HUB is Jefferson County ARES director and is stationed at the EMA downtown. Ham Radio operators are currently manning various shelters, and facilitating meal delivery to first responders Operation Centers. They are delivering meals to Fultondale, Pratt City, Forestdale, Pleasant Grove, and the Concrod community. The food is prepared by the southern baptist feeding unit, under the direction of the red cross. I visited the Pratt City Relief Center yesterday. It was neighbors helping neighbors. You could see everyone pulling together to get through this, and it was quite moving. Relief efforts should increase substantially in the next few days once search and recovery is over. |
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oddly enough i have not hear much from ares or races. most of the aid has been coming from individual hams and local radio clubs assisting with shelter coms. The traffic on 146.880 IS Jefferson County ARES, in coordination with the Jeffco EOC, and NGO agencies. N4HUB is Jefferson County ARES director and is stationed at the EMA downtown. Ham Radio operators are currently manning various shelters, and facilitating meal delivery to first responders Operation Centers. They are delivering meals to Fultondale, Pratt City, Forestdale, Pleasant Grove, and the Concrod community. The food is prepared by the southern baptist feeding unit, under the direction of the red cross. I visited the Pratt City Relief Center yesterday. It was neighbors helping neighbors. You could see everyone pulling together to get through this, and it was quite moving. Relief efforts should increase substantially in the next few days once search and recovery is over. thanks for the info. i thought that was the case but wasn't sure. i knew they were coordinating the civi side but i am unaware of them currently serving any rescue agencies. frankly it's something sorely needed right now. i was using my ham wednesday afternoon to keep in touch between our local fire and pd since their radios couldn't talk in the field and waiting on the dispatcher to relay traffic was painful. Not really legal but screw it we needed it and it got people where we needed them faster. i am ok to use both department radios just not really ok to use ham gear on those freqs. i figure in a disaster that rule is out the window. |
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I will also concur that gasoline is a precious commodity. My sister was two blocks from the tornado. Their house is intact, but by "modern definitions" uninhabitable. No electricity, no water, no natural gas. Sis and kids are staying with me. BIL is behind the lines. I loaned him my EU2000 and a hotplate, which is allowing him to run his refrigerator, make coffe in the morning, and charge his cell phone. He can't get in or out to procure fuel without a huge wait and would also have to leave his house unoccupied. Most of the neighbors have bugged out. There is some looting going on, but we're hearing it is people actually residing WITHIN the checkpoint area. I brought him the generator and six gallons of gas on Wednesday. Nearly 72 hours later and he has only burned through three gallons. Those people with the big generators are having to turn them off A LOT, or devote a lot of time and energy to fuel procurement.
ETA: Oh, yes, cell service SUCKS right now, even miles from directly affected area. Text messaging is getting through, but it's taking an hour or more sometimes for them. My 3G phone ain't so fast. The ham radio appears to be the most reliable way to communicate in affected areas quickly. |
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i have a 6500/8500 generac.
currently using it to run the fridge and freezer and charge my battery box when the generator is going. i am running it about 6 hours a day and so far have only gone through about 5 gallons of gas. i use the battery box with an 800wt inverter to run lights and the TV day and night and my cpap machine while i sleep. based on the power draw i am seeing today <first chance to really monitor it> this 125ah deep cycle battery should run my 51 plasma tv, dish network internet, 2 laptops and cell chargers for around 12-15 hours ideally. i figure with it getting recharged twice a day with the genset i should be fine until the battery just croaks. since i have been able to sit down and calulate the draw i can drastically reduce the genset run time now. 2-3 hours a day for the fridge and freezer should be more than good. this battery/inverter box so far has been my #1 source of "snivel grear". keeping the lights on and tv running with no noise at night has kept the wife happy and me sane. i am really thinking hard about building a second one of these when this is all over. MAJOR fuel saving on the generator as i only need to run it for the fridge and freezer at that point. |
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oddly enough i have not hear much from ares or races. most of the aid has been coming from individual hams and local radio clubs assisting with shelter coms. The traffic on 146.880 IS Jefferson County ARES, in coordination with the Jeffco EOC, and NGO agencies. N4HUB is Jefferson County ARES director and is stationed at the EMA downtown. Ham Radio operators are currently manning various shelters, and facilitating meal delivery to first responders Operation Centers. They are delivering meals to Fultondale, Pratt City, Forestdale, Pleasant Grove, and the Concrod community. The food is prepared by the southern baptist feeding unit, under the direction of the red cross. I visited the Pratt City Relief Center yesterday. It was neighbors helping neighbors. You could see everyone pulling together to get through this, and it was quite moving. Relief efforts should increase substantially in the next few days once search and recovery is over. thanks for the info. i thought that was the case but wasn't sure. i knew they were coordinating the civi side but i am unaware of them currently serving any rescue agencies. frankly it's something sorely needed right now. i was using my ham wednesday afternoon to keep in touch between our local fire and pd since their radios couldn't talk in the field and waiting on the dispatcher to relay traffic was painful. Not really legal but screw it we needed it and it got people where we needed them faster. i am ok to use both department radios just not really ok to use ham gear on those freqs. i figure in a disaster that rule is out the window. Sorry for a total novice question, but how do you keep communication between pd and fd? Does this mean you sit with your radio in pd headquarters and someone else sits in fd hq receiving what you're transmitting? But then how do you relay information to the units in the fieldif their radios don't work? I'm very confused about this ham stuff. Please elaborate for an gnoramus like myself. |
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BeerSlayer, this has been a great thread, very informative.
Supports some of the theories discussed over the years, and dispells some others. Sorry about your sunburned head! Adding noxema to the SHTF list.
Fuel [/]check Generator [/]check Water [/]check Cash [/]check I have 4 of the motorola radios, but only imagine them being good for our local area, amongst neighbors, beats walking down the street. I would hand them out to trustworthy neighbors if the need ever arose. Security in tiers should be encouraged, Self, then street, then neighborhood, then community, then town, etc. etc. Your battery box sounds like it's working out great! You can only play Monopoly and Gin rummy for so long 
Prayers to everyone down there, keep up the good work. |
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Beer Slayer glad you making the best of bad situation ! Just want to let you know that this thread has officially made me start thinking about thinking more seriously about prep Bad thing is I am a young college student that doesn't make that much and I live in an apartment  So I would appreciate any tips concerning food storage, comms, small generators, just anything in general THANK YOU Now its time to waist some time at work and look through some prep threads |
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DannyGlover, where you are at makes some difference.
College station ~ hurricane Austin ~ hurricane Lubbock ~ sand storm, tornado Alpine ~ wait wut The good news is that you do not need much to make it for 3 days to a week. The bad news is that if your school work is destroyed you could be set back a semester. Backing up your data might be the most valuable Just so you know that you are not alone: Protus, die-trying, and I live in apartments. I also personally know some survivalists that live in dorms
Welcome to the SF 
Do you have a plan for; fire? severe weather? pregnancy? job loss? vehicle loss? Making a plan will only cost the time and paper to write it on. A plan will enable you to organize your actions and purchases in the future Quoted:
Prepare for the most likely first and the least likely last. So you ask; what is the most likely event? Quoted:
Start by thinking back over the last 20 years of your life and what emergencies you faced. Things like: flood loss of employment fire tornado blizzard loss of electricity car died out on the road (happened to me tonight 15 miles out of town - 15 degrees and very windy out) etc. these are things that will probably happen again. take steps to deal with those problems first. SF History—has been posted in SF since I joined the SF: 3 SF members that are recovering from job loss homes lost to fire posted here in SF 5 or more BOVs totaled by accident 5 now 7 now probably more new little SFers born 1 SF family has suffered the loss of a child to illness. Visits to the ER due to infection, injury, and insect sting allergy 5 or more hurricanes 1 SFer had to stay a week in the hospital How should you live your life now that you are a survivalist? Quoted:
Live like "it" will never happen, prep like "it" will. Who’s who of the SF (please forgive me if I don’t spell all the names perfectly) Frank Squid—posts occasionally one of the founders or the founder of SF TomJefferson(TJ)—top moderator of SF and poster SF family. TJ is a great source of wisdom and stories. Paul—suburban SFing and expedition offroading. Protus—apartment survivalism and outdoor skills die-tryin(dt or DT)—poster BOV of SF biere—general knowledge There are others, but I have not caught the above posters posting trash or foolishness. Acronym translator; SF—this survival forum BOB—Bug Out Bag; also BHB—Bug Home Bag BOV—Bug Out vehicle IMHO—In My Humble Opinion YMMV—Your Mileage May Vary WttSFp—this post |
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Thanks PA22-400 I currently live in Austin. Currently I just want to become more prepared for severe weather, hurricanes, power loss, and complete SHTF I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps Infantry so I tend to know more than the average college student  Just want to know what some good ideas for prep in an apartment such as food storage (preferably 30 days worth) Should I even consider a small Generator (maybe I should just keep to a battery system) A good radio thats good for when cell towers go down A good fm/am/weather alert radio because the ones at walmart suck Thankfully, my main bug out plan is head south to a 16,000 ranch I have access to Again Thanks PA22-400 and I guess I should check out some threads by Protus |
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spent most of the day today at home. got the wife happy with things life is much better.
went to walmart today hoping to find another deep cycle battery. i wasn't expecting there to be any but surprisingly they told me they had plenty and hadn't sold the first one. i picked up 2 more 125ah deep cycles that gives me a total of 3 now. should be able to run things at night without much problem. only issue is going to be charge time. not completly sure how long it's going to take right now between the normal ac charger on the generator and the solar. too tired to figure it all out. VERY important lesson learded today. As i was wiring these new batteries in i crossed the cable and damn near welded the cable to my hand. Completely stupid move and i know better. Lack of sleep i guess is catching up with me. luckily i didn't blow the batteries or the inverter. i easily could have. changed my shorts and finished the wiring job. said to hell with it all and just popped a beer. Day 3 seems to be my mental point. been kinda in a daze all day today. I can only imagine how the guys still searching houses must feel right now. most of them still have not been home or gotten more than an hour or 2 rest here and there. |
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Thanks PA22-400 I currently live in Austin. Currently I just want to become more prepared for severe weather, hurricanes, power loss, and complete SHTF I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps Infantry so I tend to know more than the average college student
Just want to know what some good ideas for prep in an apartment such as food storage (preferably 30 days worth) Should I even consider a small Generator (maybe I should just keep to a battery system) A good radio thats good for when cell towers go down A good fm/am/weather alert radio because the ones at walmart suck Thankfully, my main bug out plan is head south to a 16,000 ranch I have access to Again Thanks PA22-400 and I guess I should check out some threads by Protus i have a 6500/8500 for the house. it's worked well using it about 4-5 hours a day to run the fridge and freezer. i also use it to charge my batts and phones while it's on. i have been using a 125ah deep cycle batt with an 800wt inverter to run the tv's and such at night. i am now considering one of the small gas generators to use just for battery charging and such. less fuel burned and not as noisy for just running small things like the tv and batt chargers. i never really considered that useful until now. i got caught short this time on gasoline. i usually have at least 20 gallons on hand but got lazy and used it to feed the lawn more as i didn't want to spend the money at 3-4.00 a gallon to replace it. i have 8 gerry cans right now. they will ALL be stored full when this is over. one other small thing i have begun to hear from people around the area. most are running their generators 24x7 with no break. these light engines aren't designed for that and most people don't maintain them. i have seen more than a few folks running around looking for parts right now. i replace oil and plugs in mine every year no matter what. i figure it's cheap insureance. will be doing it again as soon as this is over. oil and plugs are cheap compared to not having it when i need it. |
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one of our home town guys is a photographer embeded with search and rescue. his pics here are amazing...
http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=8&f=31&t=450475 |
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Thank you for your assessment of the situation down there. I have one question though. You said civilian help is being discouraged, is it because you guys are having a hard time finding help with morals, honor and integrity or is it just them having a lack of training and doing things that are unsafe? I bet it has more to do with the police and firefighters unions not wanting any competition. |
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Thanks PA22-400 I currently live in Austin. Currently I just want to become more prepared for severe weather, hurricanes, power loss, and complete SHTF I spent 4 years in the Marine Corps Infantry so I tend to know more than the average college student
Just want to know what some good ideas for prep in an apartment such as food storage (preferably 30 days worth) Should I even consider a small Generator (maybe I should just keep to a battery system) A good radio thats good for when cell towers go down A good fm/am/weather alert radio because the ones at walmart suck Thankfully, my main bug out plan is head south to a 16,000 ranch I have access to Again Thanks PA22-400 and I guess I should check out some threads by Protus Plan: You need to plan to continue your education. You need to secure your school work. My son lost 2 weeks of work just one hour before it was to be turned in. I've had more than one hard drive crash. You may be able to find the emergency plan that your school has. Consider how your school will act when you make your plans. Food does not need to be too complex. Water...a filter or purifier tablets might be more compact than a14 cases of bottled water. A way to cook....when I single I had a single flame sterno stove that I got from Kmart, my wife still has her esbit stove from those days. I moved up to to a 2 burner coleman after we got married. Rice stores easily, cooks easily, and is inexpensive. Canned food is easy to procure and store. Don't forget an opener. MREs are handy but cost more. Protus is married and has a kid. I am married to MA, and we have 4 kids. I would not intentionally bs you, but I might look at things a bit differently than a single guy. |
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I was at Sam's Club (on Lakeshore for you locals) on Friday afternoon, and it looked like they had just put out about 100+ of the 7000 kw Honda generators at $999 each. They had 6 of them on the flat carts already, so someone could just wheel the cart on up to the checkout. An hour later, all 6 carts were gone and I'd say at least 7 or 8 more were gone out of the big stack. They had also just put out a huge pallet of charcoal, which was getting gone pretty fast too. People were buying entire flat carts full of bottled water, as fast as they could.
The Wal-Mart next door was even more packed. I've never seen it so busy, even during Christmas. There was not a single flashlight in the entire store. If it said Coleman on it, it was gone too - no lanterns, stoves, fuel, even accesories for lanterns, etc. It looked like all the grills were gone too. Batteries were getting low, mostly AAA's and odd sizes left. I don't recall seeing any D's left. They had strategically staged displays of stuff and endcaps at the front - coolers, charcoal, bottled water, etc. They were all in the process of getting wiped out. I have no doubt that if those places were not being resupplied (there were lots of trucks pulling into the back and parked out in the parking lot at both stores), they would have been all but emptied out. Gas stations were pretty packed Thursday and Friday and just about everyone was filling up multiple gas cans as fast as they could. I heard one report of a station raising their price 14 cents on Friday morning. Don't know if that is true or not. I also went into the Lowe's and saw several people buying chainsaws. Hopefully they know how to use them safely. I noticed they weren't buying any eye or ear protection to go with them. The area where we live was spared any damage, thankfully. I was just in the stores doing my normal shopping, but it was really interesting to see what was going on. I have a couple coworkers that are stuck in their neighborhoods still. And a few others still without power. Their reactions have been interesting too. One guy didn't have any damage at his house, but he took his family to a hotel right away because they "couldn't live without power". He had to drive an hour to find a room. There are obviously other people who need a place to stay more than him. Another guy took a flashlight home from our office, because "the battery in his had gone bad". He had one flashlight and one electric lantern, and no spare batteries. Good examples of the unprepared. |
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walmart in gardendale was pretty much bursiness as usual. like your ALL camping supplies and water and batteries gone but otherwise it looked normal. no wait in line for gas today. paid 3.64gal which is only up .02 from wed when i filled the car.
it alwyas interesting to me how quickly things begin to appear normal if you not in the kill zone. |
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walmart in gardendale was pretty much bursiness as usual. like your ALL camping supplies and water and batteries gone but otherwise it looked normal. no wait in line for gas today. paid 3.64gal which is only up .02 from wed when i filled the car. it alwyas interesting to me how quickly things begin to appear normal if you not in the kill zone. Yeah, I kind of felt like what I saw on Friday was people from affected areas gravitating towards stores that still had power and basically buying whatever they could get their hands on. I wondered if that had slowed down already. I think at least some of the folks buying tons of water were getting them for relief groups, shelters, etc. I'm just thankful I made it through ok. You guys that are out there in the middle of it helping are doing God's work for sure. Stay safe! |
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too tired to figure it all out. VERY important lesson learded today. As i was wiring these new batteries in i crossed the cable and damn near welded the cable to my hand. Completely stupid move and i know better. Lack of sleep i guess is catching up with me. luckily i didn't blow the batteries or the inverter. i easily could have. changed my shorts and finished the wiring job. said to hell with it all and just popped a beer. Day 3 seems to be my mental point. been kinda in a daze all day today. I can only imagine how the guys still searching houses must feel right now. most of them still have not been home or gotten more than an hour or 2 rest here and there. Important lesson to all. Day 3 is when the sleep deprivation starts kicking in and affecting tasks that require a bit of mental processing. Being fit vs unfit can push this line one direction or the other Even 20 minute cat naps every once in a while can help a bit. There are reasons why Infantry guys catch ZZz's whenever they can. They don't know when their next chance will be. B_S, thanks for the updates and take care of yourself. |
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i have been sleeing at night but every noise wakes me up. not really sure why as we have no issues in our area. i guess i am just in that mode right now. 2-3 hours hard sleep is about all i have gotten since wed night and honestly wed was the only "bad" day i had. thur and fri were pretty much aiding the local pd as our guys were out of town, and helping the folks in my neighbor hood. pretty light based on what the guys on the front have had to deal with.
took today off and plan to hit it again tomorrow. |
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i have a 6500/8500 for the house. it's worked well using it about 4-5 hours a day to run the fridge and freezer. i also use it to charge my batts and phones while it's on. i have been using a 125ah deep cycle batt with an 800wt inverter to run the tv's and such at night. i am now considering one of the small gas generators to use just for battery charging and such. less fuel burned and not as noisy for just running small things like the tv and batt chargers. i never really considered that useful until now. i got caught short this time on gasoline. i usually have at least 20 gallons on hand but got lazy and used it to feed the lawn more as i didn't want to spend the money at 3-4.00 a gallon to replace it. i have 8 gerry cans right now. they will ALL be stored full when this is over. one other small thing i have begun to hear from people around the area. most are running their generators 24x7 with no break. these light engines aren't designed for that and most people don't maintain them. i have seen more than a few folks running around looking for parts right now. i replace oil and plugs in mine every year no matter what. i figure it's cheap insureance. will be doing it again as soon as this is over. oil and plugs are cheap compared to not having it when i need it. +1 Don't neglect preventative maintenance. |
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Yes, preventative maintenance and knowing how to use your gear are essential. During our last big weather event several neighbors had generators, but they had never assembled them, didn't have oil, didn't have the right cords, etc. It was pretty surprising to me that someone would drop a grand on a gen and have no idea how to use or maintain it. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Thank you for your assessment of the situation down there. I have one question though. You said civilian help is being discouraged, is it because you guys are having a hard time finding help with morals, honor and integrity or is it just them having a lack of training and doing things that are unsafe? I bet it has more to do with the police and firefighters unions not wanting any competition. Really ?  It shouldn't suprise me by now, but it still does. Get away from the pc, take your grandmother's dog for a walk, stop and eat a sandwich somewhere, get some fresh air and do this about 4 days in a row, that might help.
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thanks for the write-up, TBS. While we weren't in the thick of it immediately after the hit, what I experienced here where it was quiet but still very, very dark nights - the 'everyone for themselves' attitude began to set in very quick, it felt like just from my surrounding neighborhood. Alarm system, which I rely on at night for valuable slumber, was no longer available once the battery ran out after the first night of no power. When you have no power within 20 miles or so of you in any direction, the dark is so dark, especially when overcast, that you cannot see the hand in front of your face. Candles and flashlights become a lot less effective than in theory when used prior in an atmosphere that still has city lights, street lights, etc. Gas stations can no longer pump gas. No groceries from powerless stores. You have to drive, and have enough gas and potentially spare gas, to make it. No generator = frige full of stuff ruined. We ended up having to cook everything on the second day. Made me wish we had a dog. I was thankful that water was still on tap, but we definitely need to stock some spares. ETA: also, apparently every other house in the neighborhood had generators. In the still of the night, it sounded like a hundred lawn mowers mowing out there. Irritated me for opsec purposes, you couldn't hear anyone/anything sneaking around. |
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I will also concur that gasoline is a precious commodity. My sister was two blocks from the tornado. Their house is intact, but by "modern definitions" uninhabitable. No electricity, no water, no natural gas. Sis and kids are staying with me. BIL is behind the lines. I loaned him my EU2000 and a hotplate, which is allowing him to run his refrigerator, make coffe in the morning, and charge his cell phone. He can't get in or out to procure fuel without a huge wait and would also have to leave his house unoccupied. Does he know how to siphon fuel out of a vehicle gas tank? One car with a 1/4 tank of gas would run that EU2000 for several days non-stop. |
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OP, thanks for this thread and the updates.
Since we live in tornado alley, my wife and I take preps into serious consideration. This thread helps to reinforce what we do and learn some new things. It makes it easier for me to justify some things on the "to do list", such as shortwave radios. Sometimes we need a reminder to do what we already know we should. |
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i have a 6500/8500 for the house. it's worked well using it about 4-5 hours a day to run the fridge and freezer. i also use it to charge my batts and phones while it's on. i have been using a 125ah deep cycle batt with an 800wt inverter to run the tv's and such at night. i am now considering one of the small gas generators to use just for battery charging and such. less fuel burned and not as noisy for just running small things like the tv and batt chargers. i never really considered that useful until now. i got caught short this time on gasoline. i usually have at least 20 gallons on hand but got lazy and used it to feed the lawn more as i didn't want to spend the money at 3-4.00 a gallon to replace it. i have 8 gerry cans right now. they will ALL be stored full when this is over. one other small thing i have begun to hear from people around the area. most are running their generators 24x7 with no break. these light engines aren't designed for that and most people don't maintain them. i have seen more than a few folks running around looking for parts right now. i replace oil and plugs in mine every year no matter what. i figure it's cheap insureance. will be doing it again as soon as this is over. oil and plugs are cheap compared to not having it when i need it. +1 Don't neglect preventative maintenance. As an aside, after Ike I knew a bunch of folks in Houston that ran off their generators for three weeks. Most did not understand that a)you need to check the oil at least once a day and top off for loss/use and b)you need to have oil to top off with! I wound up donating my stash of Red Line 15W-50 to a bunch of friends who didn't have any oil for topping off their $15,000 natural gas 20kW Generac. Always have extra oil around, and if possible it should be a heavier weight for lower losses during long run times. Wal-Mart 15W-40 oil (Shell Rotella, Wal-Mart brand, Motorcraft –– whatever) is just fine for air-cooled engines in hot weather. You can use the same oil in your lawn mower and older cars, too, to make it easy to keep a couple of gallon jugs around. And this is also probably a good time to dust off my Ike story about Chinese generators, too. When Ike came through, I was working for a small oil company and the CEO wanted to give generators to the employees without power (loan, not keep) and bizarrely charged the CIO with the task of making that happen. CIO was a fool, to be kind, and demanded that I buy the cheapest generators that I could. I disagreed, in writing and in person, and was told to get it done, and the CIO himself found a bunch of Coleman-branded Chinese generators at Northern Tool up IH-45. So I bought them, I brought them down, and mostly, they didn't work. Because I was not watching them every second (the top floor was trashed, I was doing remote work, and so on), a bunch of folks just took them home. They did sign for them, but that wasn't the issue –– they never tested them in the garage. Most of them needed to have the carb pulled apart and cleaned before they would run –– all but a few came out of the box with the carbs completely clogged with nice, bright red Chinese varnish in the bowl and all over the carb. What happened with the folks who took them home without testing them was that they would fill them to the brim with gasoline (the units had a top-mounted fuel tank), open the fuel valve, and try to make it run. It wouldn't, and so they would give up and head inside, leaving the generator outside –– VALVE TO THE FUEL TANK LEFT OPEN! Overnight, the fresh gas would dissolve enough varnish in the carb to partially open the carb and would drain five gallons of gasoline onto the garage floors, right next to water heaters in most cases. We were lucky that no one burned their house down. You should avoid doing this. So, if you get a new generator, it may not run if it has been sitting/is Chinese/both before the carb gets thoroughly cleaned out, so make sure that you can do that on the spot. Ideally, do that ahead of time. And close the valve to top-mounted gas tanks, just in case, when you aren't using them. |
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it will interesting to see how the looter situation plays out. i was told today the fed was taking over security and their rules of engagement on looters is more or less shoot on sight. i know that was put into effect on the gulf coast during ivan and MANY arrests were made but i know of non actually killed.
Thanks for you postings, they have been real eye openers! I would like to know more about the mention you made as to the "Fed taking over security." My question is what Fed agency has the jurisdiction to do so? Is it FEMA and by that does it mean that FEMA keeps enough gun toters on hand to adequately provide security for such a large area? They must be a lot of them! National Guard, I understand, since they would be mobilized by the respective state governors and acting under his direction but they would not be Fed unless the President mobilized them. Am I right in my thinking or am I wrong? Not trying to stir anything up, just wanting to get a clear pictue of how things work in the real world when th SHTF! |
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it will interesting to see how the looter situation plays out. i was told today the fed was taking over security and their rules of engagement on looters is more or less shoot on sight. i know that was put into effect on the gulf coast during ivan and MANY arrests were made but i know of non actually killed. Nothing will undermine your faith in human nature faster than watching what some people will do to take advantage after a disaster. Some people pull together as a neighborhood/community... while others take the opportunity to "get theirs," as it were. After Katrina, a number of groups in my area took in a significant number of Katrina refugees (as did many communities in the southeastern and south-central US). Some of these people were unbelievable... they immediately began scamming as many of the local ERs for drugs and narcotics as they could. They'd pull the "I'm a Katrina refugee" card, and of course all of their records from their "pain doctor" in New Orleans had been destroyed, and they hadn't found a local doctor to care for them yet, and they were in withdrawal, and they needed a refill of their Methadone/Oxycontin/Fentanyl-patches, etc, etc, etc. A lot of us felt sorry for them, and based on the unprecedented nature of the incident, we'd help them out... only to get a call from the local pharmacy about an hour later, informing us that the patient had filled a similar prescription for the same medicine the day before. We had people elope from the ER almost immediately after getting their requested dose of their pain medicine... we'd go back to check on them, and find the room empty, the gown on the floor, and the patient long gone. People were also pulling the "Katrina refugee" card 18 months later... still hadn't gotten a job... still hadn't found a regular doctor... still hadn't gotten back on their blood-pressure meds... still hadn't seen anyone for the chronic back pain, and the expected us to refill their Lortabs. The saddest part of it all was that there were Katrina refugees who had real problems, needed real help, and the grifters and drug-seekers made it that much more difficult for the legit folks to get anybody to listen to them. Some of my colleagues who went down there to care for people in the immediate wake of the disaster had some pretty harrowing tales... and these were hard-bitten, veteran ER docs. Never underestimate the depth of social pathology... or the degree to which some people will go to take advantage of other people in a disaster situation... whether it's as banal as picking up a few extra boxes of MREs for themselves (when they don't need them), taking advantage of the chaos to get high, or straight-up looting what's left of your earthly possessions. The kind of people who would take advantage of a disaster like that really light both ends of my fuse... for real. 
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Just got back today from volunteering with a NGO. Red Cross vehicles are beginning to distribute large amounts of food in heavily affected areas. On the first day it was just provided to the emergency responders. There are certain high profile areas where substantial damage occurred have resources absolutely pouring in- more than they can utilize. Search and Recovery is winding up, and cleanup should begin soon. National Guard is on the scene in some places and they are locking the communities down at night. Other areas that have a need were receiving very little outside aid and were essentially on their own. I visited a community today in unincorporated area just a stone's throw from Birmingham. The "operations center" consisted of the neighborhood association president working out of a half demolished fire station. Neighbors were banning together to help but the were lower income and the need there for help was substantial. They were doing an impressive job of taking care of their own. We're trying to get them some help from an NGO up there by Monday.
More SF oriented- My BIL is still on his first five gallons of gas in 48 hours with my EU2000. He's powering down at night and using the LED lights I gave him. They are low output, low draw that will last for days on a set of AAs. A buddy of mine has a Honda EM3500 at his house. He's essentially running the same thing as my BIL is running :refrigerator, lights, TV, etc. He went through 27 gallons of gas in about 80 hours of non-stop running. My suggestion is everyone think about your fuel and your true load needs for your generator, and get the most fuel efficient. Bigger may not be better, and may actually be worse. If all you're doing is running a refrigerator and a couple of lights off a 7 KW generator you're gonna burn a heck of a lot of fuel to do it. They still have a boil water note in some communities. There's nothing quite like a nice glass of recently boiled lukewarm water when it's 85 degrees outside. Yes, technically you can survive, but it sucks not to have the creature comforts we have grown accustomed to. |
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Just got back today from volunteering with a NGO. Red Cross vehicles are beginning to distribute large amounts of food in heavily affected areas. On the first day it was just provided to the emergency responders. There are certain high profile areas where substantial damage occurred have resources absolutely pouring in- more than they can utilize. Search and Recovery is winding up, and cleanup should begin soon. National Guard is on the scene in some places and they are locking the communities down at night. Other areas that have a need were receiving very little outside aid and were essentially on their own. I visited a community today in unincorporated area just a stone's throw from Birmingham. The "operations center" consisted of the neighborhood association president working out of a half demolished fire station. Neighbors were banning together to help but the were lower income and the need there for help was substantial. They were doing an impressive job of taking care of their own. We're trying to get them some help from an NGO up there by Monday. More SF oriented- My BIL is still on his first five gallons of gas in 48 hours with my EU2000. He's powering down at night and using the LED lights I gave him. They are low output, low draw that will last for days on a set of AAs. A buddy of mine has a Honda EM3500 at his house. He's essentially running the same thing as my BIL is running :refrigerator, lights, TV, etc. He went through 27 gallons of gas in about 80 hours of non-stop running. My suggestion is everyone think about your fuel and your true load needs for your generator, and get the most fuel efficient. Bigger may not be better, and may actually be worse. If all you're doing is running a refrigerator and a couple of lights off a 7 KW generator you're gonna burn a heck of a lot of fuel to do it. They still have a boil water note in some communities. There's nothing quite like a nice glass of recently boiled lukewarm water when it's 85 degrees outside. Yes, technically you can survive, but it sucks not to have the creature comforts we have grown accustomed to. "Bigger may not be better, and may actually be worse." Absolutely, getting the Sheeple who often ask abt gennys to understand that is sometimes difficult. |
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thanks for the write-up, TBS. While we weren't in the thick of it immediately after the hit, what I experienced here where it was quiet but still very, very dark nights - the 'everyone for themselves' attitude began to set in very quick, it felt like just from my surrounding neighborhood. Alarm system, which I rely on at night for valuable slumber, was no longer available once the battery ran out after the first night of no power. When you have no power within 20 miles or so of you in any direction, the dark is so dark, especially when overcast, that you cannot see the hand in front of your face. Candles and flashlights become a lot less effective than in theory when used prior in an atmosphere that still has city lights, street lights, etc. Gas stations can no longer pump gas. No groceries from powerless stores. You have to drive, and have enough gas and potentially spare gas, to make it. No generator = frige full of stuff ruined. We ended up having to cook everything on the second day. Made me wish we had a dog. I was thankful that water was still on tap, but we definitely need to stock some spares. ETA: also, apparently every other house in the neighborhood had generators. In the still of the night, it sounded like a hundred lawn mowers mowing out there. Irritated me for opsec purposes, you couldn't hear anyone/anything sneaking around. Here's what you need from H-F... Abt $15 on sale. 
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too tired to figure it all out. VERY important lesson learded today. As i was wiring these new batteries in i crossed the cable and damn near welded the cable to my hand. Completely stupid move and i know better. Lack of sleep i guess is catching up with me. luckily i didn't blow the batteries or the inverter. i easily could have. changed my shorts and finished the wiring job. said to hell with it all and just popped a beer. Day 3 seems to be my mental point. been kinda in a daze all day today. I can only imagine how the guys still searching houses must feel right now. most of them still have not been home or gotten more than an hour or 2 rest here and there. Important lesson to all. Day 3 is when the sleep deprivation starts kicking in and affecting tasks that require a bit of mental processing. Being fit vs unfit can push this line one direction or the other Even 20 minute cat naps every once in a while can help a bit. There are reasons why Infantry guys catch ZZz's whenever they can. They don't know when their next chance will be. B_S, thanks for the updates and take care of yourself. One of the qualities of a good warrior is being able to catch sleep quickly when the opportunity presents itself. |
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Quoted: Thank you for your assessment of the situation down there. I have one question though. You said civilian help is being discouraged, is it because you guys are having a hard time finding help with morals, honor and integrity or is it just them having a lack of training and doing things that are unsafe? 1. Can't tell the good guys from the bad ones. 2. Many of them are more harm than good. When they cut a tree down and it breaks their leg, they take more resources off the table than harm would have caused by leaving the tree. We arrested 2 scammers, and 3 looters TODAY alone. |
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Great thread, OP!
There is a ton of info for people to digest here. Interagency comms in a local area are almost ALWAYS a mess when the SHTF in the natural disaster mode. The best way to go is to take the entire incident and move it to another set of freqs, but smaller agencies rarely have that ability, and you are right about the feds really being weenies about frequency use and cross-talking. That started about 10 years ago when they began kickng emergency services off of the low-band freqs that work best in mountainous regions using fairly simple repeater systems. Now, you need 3 times as many repeaters for coverage that is weak at best. |