Posted: 8/8/2025 11:20:20 AM EDT
[Last Edit: sendit14][Edited]
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ETA: Based on initial replies, I modified my OP ... I've heard that a hiker needs X for mountain lions but Y for bears and Z for something else ... What if a guy built an AR Pistol, piston, chambered in .300 blk? Compact. Capable. Cool :D My hierarchy is keeping my family safe from animals then avoiding prison. Honestly, if a pocket-low-yield nuke or laser blaster existed, I would consider those. That said, this thread might be the perfect example of broken gun laws. My thought on subsonic ammo is only to avoid game enforcement when I simply need to dispatch an animal. I figure a can with supersonic ammo still provides enuf noise that someone can 'triangulate' my location? I'm not trying to plan illegal stuff (poaching, drugs) - I just want the means to protect my party and avoid bored LE. Would supersonic ammo from an unsuppressed piston AR pistol in .300 blk with a BRD protect against all threats? ORIGINAL POST: I've heard that a hiker needs X for mountain lions but Y for bears and Z for something else ... What if a guy built an AR Pistol, piston, chambered in .300 blk? Compact. Capable. Cool :D Would subs from a non-can pistol in .300 blk protect against all threats? |
| 300 blackout subs are equivalent to about .45 Super or 10mm in terms of energy. So for most things you might encounter hiking in the US it's probably adequate, if less than ideal. If you're already carrying essentially a small rifle why not just carry supers though? |
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Originally Posted By sendit14: I've heard that a hiker needs X for mountain lions but Y for bears and Z for something else ... What if a guy built an AR Pistol, piston, chambered in .300 blk? Compact. Capable. Cool ?? Would subs from a non-can pistol in .300 blk protect against all threats? Sounds bulky/heavy to me. I'd be more inclined to run a Glock 20 or 40 w/ an optic on it. Or something like my 329PD. Or just carry my 19C and deal w/ 9mm. All of those are going to be easier IMO to carry while hiking and more likely than a large pistol SBR type thing you're tempted to set down someplace or have strapped to something when you need it. Or there's the old standby. A 12 gauge w/ slugs and maybe buckshot. |
You must play the game. You can't win. You can't break even. You can't quit the game.
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Originally Posted By ScoutH57: Your idea is perfectly fine until you say subs with no can. No fucking point and they won't usually work in unsuppressed semiautos Good feedback. My hierarchy is keeping my family safe from animals then avoiding prison. That said, this thread might be the perfect example of broken gun laws. My thought on subsonic ammo is only to avoid game enforcement when I simply need to dispatch an animal. I figure a can with supersonic ammo still provides enuf noise that someone can 'triangulate' my location? I'm not trying to plan illegal stuff (poaching, drugs) - I just want the means to protect my party and avoid bored LE. Would supersonic ammo from an unsuppressed piston AR pistol in .300 blk with a BRD protect against all threats? |
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Originally Posted By mak0: 300 blackout subs are equivalent to about .45 Super or 10mm in terms of energy. So for most things you might encounter hiking in the US it's probably adequate, if less than ideal. If you're already carrying essentially a small rifle why not just carry supers though? Good feedback, thanks. I updated my OP. My hierarchy is keeping my family safe from animals then avoiding prison. Honestly, if a pocket-low-yield nuke or laser blaster existed, I would consider those. That said, this thread might be the perfect example of broken gun laws. My thought on subsonic ammo is only to avoid game enforcement when I simply need to dispatch an animal. I figure a can with supersonic ammo still provides enuf noise that someone can 'triangulate' my location? I'm not trying to plan illegal stuff (poaching, drugs) - I just want the means to protect my party and avoid bored LE. Would supersonic ammo from an unsuppressed piston AR pistol in .300 blk with a BRD protect against all threats? |
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Originally Posted By jhereg: Sounds bulky/heavy to me. I'd be more inclined to run a Glock 20 or 40 w/ an optic on it. Or something like my 329PD. Or just carry my 19C and deal w/ 9mm. All of those are going to be easier IMO to carry while hiking and more likely than a large pistol SBR type thing you're tempted to set down someplace or have strapped to something when you need it. Or there's the old standby. A 12 gauge w/ slugs and maybe buckshot. Originally Posted By jhereg: Originally Posted By sendit14: I've heard that a hiker needs X for mountain lions but Y for bears and Z for something else ... What if a guy built an AR Pistol, piston, chambered in .300 blk? Compact. Capable. Cool ?? Would subs from a non-can pistol in .300 blk protect against all threats? Sounds bulky/heavy to me. I'd be more inclined to run a Glock 20 or 40 w/ an optic on it. Or something like my 329PD. Or just carry my 19C and deal w/ 9mm. All of those are going to be easier IMO to carry while hiking and more likely than a large pistol SBR type thing you're tempted to set down someplace or have strapped to something when you need it. Or there's the old standby. A 12 gauge w/ slugs and maybe buckshot. The bulky thing is a good callout. It's one reason I looked at the HPG chest setup for a pistol. My hierarchy is keeping my family safe from animals then avoiding prison. That said, this thread might be the perfect example of broken gun laws. My thought on subsonic ammo is only to avoid game enforcement when I simply need to dispatch an animal. I figure a can with supersonic ammo still provides enuf noise that someone can 'triangulate' my location? I'm not trying to plan illegal stuff (poaching, drugs) - I just want the means to protect my party and avoid bored LE. Would supersonic ammo from an unsuppressed piston AR pistol in .300 blk with a BRD protect against all threats? Also the "... set down someplace or have strapped to something ..." thing is a concern because I can't sling it in the open. Assuming that I am situationally aware, how much time will I have for 'ambush predators' (e.g. mountain lion)? |
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Originally Posted By Rubicon777: Just to be sure, test your gun with the desired combination of ammo to ensure functionality. And run some Barns LE-X 110s at the bottom of the mag! Good tip ref testing. I would likely fill multiple mags with the LE-X 110s ;) I will never understand carrying a weapon for protection and selecting cheap/bad ammo. |
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An AR pistol and multiple mags is a hell of a weight penalty with a lot of bulk. In addition it would have to be carried in the hands to be readily available. This in turn is likely to generate calls to LE. The chances of you having to dispatch a rouge mtn lion or even a bear a re almost zero. A far more likely scenario is humans. A HPG chest rig and a good sheep gun on 41,44 or 45 Colt with good ammo is a far better solution. I use a no longer made Go Away Bear chest rig (it predates the HPG bag) from EGL labs with a 329PD and am very happy. If recoil bothers you a S&W Mountain Gun or a Ruger will do fine. Just had more weight penalty. I have even carried my RMR’ed G19 this way. I do have a trigger guard cover attached from Dale Fricke Holsters and it is attached to a small loop inside the bag so that it pulls away on the draw. On another note you are probably not going to e prison for dispatching and animal. Big fine. Probably. Losing the firearm. Likely yes. Prison? Very low probability. Triangulation? No. Go out during hunting season and listen for shots in the distance. If you are really lucky you might get within 30 degrees of bearing. Distance down your bearing? Best of luck unless it’s in close. |
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Originally Posted By sendit14: Also the "... set down someplace or have strapped to something ..." thing is a concern because I can't sling it in the open. Assuming that I am situationally aware, how much time will I have for 'ambush predators' (e.g. mountain lion)? If this the potential threats are cats, black bears and humans then I'm comfortable with hardcast bullets in a .40. If in grizzly or moose areas then ill add bear spray. Cats have killed a couple mountain bikers over the last couple years here. |
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: An AR pistol and multiple mags is a hell of a weight penalty with a lot of bulk. In addition it would have to be carried in the hands to be readily available. This in turn is likely to generate calls to LE. The chances of you having to dispatch a rouge mtn lion or even a bear a re almost zero. A far more likely scenario is humans. A HPG chest rig and a good sheep gun on 41,44 or 45 Colt with good ammo is a far better solution. I use a no longer made Go Away Bear chest rig (it predates the HPG bag) from EGL labs with a 329PD and am very happy. If recoil bothers you a S&W Mountain Gun or a Ruger will do fine. Just had more weight penalty. I have even carried my RMR’ed G19 this way. I do have a trigger guard cover attached from Dale Fricke Holsters and it is attached to a small loop inside the bag so that it pulls away on the draw. On another note you are probably not going to e prison for dispatching and animal. Big fine. Probably. Losing the firearm. Likely yes. Prison? Very low probability. Triangulation? No. Go out during hunting season and listen for shots in the distance. If you are really lucky you might get within 30 degrees of bearing. Distance down your bearing? Best of luck unless it’s in close. Thx for the input ref weight. Now I'm wondering what kind of humans need dispatching? I mean, I've seen Deliverance but I always assumed that to be theater ... Thx for the guidance ref triangulation. I prefer the manual of arms for a Browning style pistol. Would a 10mm do the job? |
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Originally Posted By Combat_Leader: A mountain lion is predominantly an ambush hunter. You may have half a second to a second to respond while its trying to bite your neck and crush the vertebrae. You certainly won't be accessing a pack. Bears will likely have some warning. Still not enough to rely on accessing a pack. Bearspray gets mounted to a pack strap 1st and belt holster 2nd. A chest mounted pistol in either a hill people gear kit bag or gunfighters inc Kenai chest holster are the most convenient ways to carry. If this the potential threats are cats, black bears and humans then I'm comfortable with hardcast bullets in a .40. If in grizzly or moose areas then ill add bear spray. Cats have killed a couple mountain bikers over the last couple years here. Originally Posted By Combat_Leader: Originally Posted By sendit14: Also the "... set down someplace or have strapped to something ..." thing is a concern because I can't sling it in the open. Assuming that I am situationally aware, how much time will I have for 'ambush predators' (e.g. mountain lion)? If this the potential threats are cats, black bears and humans then I'm comfortable with hardcast bullets in a .40. If in grizzly or moose areas then ill add bear spray. Cats have killed a couple mountain bikers over the last couple years here. WOW! A half a second!?!? Yeah, it needs to be CCW- ready. What are your thoughts ref .40 vs 10mm? |
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It seems like you are trying to select the gear before deciding what the task really is. That's an expensive way to get semi-useful things. What are your most likely/most dangerous threats? How can you reasonably carry your defensive load out? Are you proficient with one already? What ate the legal restrictions? |
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Originally Posted By sendit14: Thx for the input ref weight. Now I'm wondering what kind of humans need dispatching? I mean, I've seen Deliverance but I always assumed that to be theater ... Thx for the guidance ref triangulation. I prefer the manual of arms for a Browning style pistol. Would a 10mm do the job? Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By Hasher1: An AR pistol and multiple mags is a hell of a weight penalty with a lot of bulk. In addition it would have to be carried in the hands to be readily available. This in turn is likely to generate calls to LE. The chances of you having to dispatch a rouge mtn lion or even a bear a re almost zero. A far more likely scenario is humans. A HPG chest rig and a good sheep gun on 41,44 or 45 Colt with good ammo is a far better solution. I use a no longer made Go Away Bear chest rig (it predates the HPG bag) from EGL labs with a 329PD and am very happy. If recoil bothers you a S&W Mountain Gun or a Ruger will do fine. Just had more weight penalty. I have even carried my RMR’ed G19 this way. I do have a trigger guard cover attached from Dale Fricke Holsters and it is attached to a small loop inside the bag so that it pulls away on the draw. On another note you are probably not going to e prison for dispatching and animal. Big fine. Probably. Losing the firearm. Likely yes. Prison? Very low probability. Triangulation? No. Go out during hunting season and listen for shots in the distance. If you are really lucky you might get within 30 degrees of bearing. Distance down your bearing? Best of luck unless it’s in close. Thx for the input ref weight. Now I'm wondering what kind of humans need dispatching? I mean, I've seen Deliverance but I always assumed that to be theater ... Thx for the guidance ref triangulation. I prefer the manual of arms for a Browning style pistol. Would a 10mm do the job? Deliverance is just thy a movie. How about weed growers? Others in the drug culture? General shit humans? Even the Appalachian Trail has had 10 murders in its history. Nothing wrong with a 10mm. My choice would be a Glock for Tue 13 rounds on board vs 7 in a Colt Delta Elite. But if a 1919 is your thing roxk on. I would seriously consider either Buffalo Bore’s or some other boutique company’s HOT loadings with a hard cast 200 gr lead bullet. |
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Originally Posted By raimius: It seems like you are trying to select the gear before deciding what the task really is. That's an expensive way to get semi-useful things. What are your most likely/most dangerous threats? How can you reasonably carry your defensive load out? Are you proficient with one already? What ate the legal restrictions? "... expensive way to get semi-useful things." is both funny and true. The task is be armed with a non-single-use weapon to sufficiently defend against plausible threats while hiking. A wheel gun would be single use and reduce proficiency. A semiautomatic in a chest rig is an easy adaptation of ccw proficiency. It will also ameliorate the soccer moms in our group until I don’t have to care. |
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: . Deliverance is just thy a movie. How about weed growers? Others in the drug culture? General shit humans? Even the Appalachian Trail has had 10 murders in its history. Nothing wrong with a 10mm. My choice would be a Glock for Tue 13 rounds on board vs 7 in a Colt Delta Elite. But if a 1919 is your thing roxk on. I would seriously consider either Buffalo Bore’s or some other boutique company’s HOT loadings with a hard cast 200 gr lead bullet. Originally Posted By Hasher1: Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By Hasher1: An AR pistol and multiple mags is a hell of a weight penalty with a lot of bulk. In addition it would have to be carried in the hands to be readily available. This in turn is likely to generate calls to LE. The chances of you having to dispatch a rouge mtn lion or even a bear a re almost zero. A far more likely scenario is humans. A HPG chest rig and a good sheep gun on 41,44 or 45 Colt with good ammo is a far better solution. I use a no longer made Go Away Bear chest rig (it predates the HPG bag) from EGL labs with a 329PD and am very happy. If recoil bothers you a S&W Mountain Gun or a Ruger will do fine. Just had more weight penalty. I have even carried my RMR’ed G19 this way. I do have a trigger guard cover attached from Dale Fricke Holsters and it is attached to a small loop inside the bag so that it pulls away on the draw. On another note you are probably not going to e prison for dispatching and animal. Big fine. Probably. Losing the firearm. Likely yes. Prison? Very low probability. Triangulation? No. Go out during hunting season and listen for shots in the distance. If you are really lucky you might get within 30 degrees of bearing. Distance down your bearing? Best of luck unless it’s in close. Thx for the input ref weight. Now I'm wondering what kind of humans need dispatching? I mean, I've seen Deliverance but I always assumed that to be theater ... Thx for the guidance ref triangulation. I prefer the manual of arms for a Browning style pistol. Would a 10mm do the job? Deliverance is just thy a movie. How about weed growers? Others in the drug culture? General shit humans? Even the Appalachian Trail has had 10 murders in its history. Nothing wrong with a 10mm. My choice would be a Glock for Tue 13 rounds on board vs 7 in a Colt Delta Elite. But if a 1919 is your thing roxk on. I would seriously consider either Buffalo Bore’s or some other boutique company’s HOT loadings with a hard cast 200 gr lead bullet. Thx for the reminder about druggies. I always figured they would avoid people on a path. Thx for the info about Buffalo Bore |
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Originally Posted By sendit14: "... expensive way to get semi-useful things." is both funny and true. The task is be armed with a non-single-use weapon to sufficiently defend against plausible threats while hiking. A wheel gun would be single use and reduce proficiency. A semiautomatic in a chest rig is an easy adaptation of ccw proficiency. It will also ameliorate the soccer moms in our group until I don’t have to care. Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By raimius: It seems like you are trying to select the gear before deciding what the task really is. That's an expensive way to get semi-useful things. What are your most likely/most dangerous threats? How can you reasonably carry your defensive load out? Are you proficient with one already? What ate the legal restrictions? "... expensive way to get semi-useful things." is both funny and true. The task is be armed with a non-single-use weapon to sufficiently defend against plausible threats while hiking. A wheel gun would be single use and reduce proficiency. A semiautomatic in a chest rig is an easy adaptation of ccw proficiency. It will also ameliorate the soccer moms in our group until I don’t have to care. I am curious as to how a revolver is a “single use weapon”? Last I checked all mine except the J Frames hold 6 rounds. They fit nicely in a chest rig Ali g with a couple of speed loader or speed strips if you are running a single action. If you are away from any area what might have and animal threat then just stepping g away to take a leak and swap the ammo. |
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Originally Posted By sendit14: Thx for the reminder about druggies. I always figured they would avoid people on a path. Thx for the info about Buffalo Bore Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By Hasher1: Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By Hasher1: An AR pistol and multiple mags is a hell of a weight penalty with a lot of bulk. In addition it would have to be carried in the hands to be readily available. This in turn is likely to generate calls to LE. The chances of you having to dispatch a rouge mtn lion or even a bear a re almost zero. A far more likely scenario is humans. A HPG chest rig and a good sheep gun on 41,44 or 45 Colt with good ammo is a far better solution. I use a no longer made Go Away Bear chest rig (it predates the HPG bag) from EGL labs with a 329PD and am very happy. If recoil bothers you a S&W Mountain Gun or a Ruger will do fine. Just had more weight penalty. I have even carried my RMR’ed G19 this way. I do have a trigger guard cover attached from Dale Fricke Holsters and it is attached to a small loop inside the bag so that it pulls away on the draw. On another note you are probably not going to e prison for dispatching and animal. Big fine. Probably. Losing the firearm. Likely yes. Prison? Very low probability. Triangulation? No. Go out during hunting season and listen for shots in the distance. If you are really lucky you might get within 30 degrees of bearing. Distance down your bearing? Best of luck unless it’s in close. Thx for the input ref weight. Now I'm wondering what kind of humans need dispatching? I mean, I've seen Deliverance but I always assumed that to be theater ... Thx for the guidance ref triangulation. I prefer the manual of arms for a Browning style pistol. Would a 10mm do the job? Deliverance is just thy a movie. How about weed growers? Others in the drug culture? General shit humans? Even the Appalachian Trail has had 10 murders in its history. Nothing wrong with a 10mm. My choice would be a Glock for Tue 13 rounds on board vs 7 in a Colt Delta Elite. But if a 1919 is your thing roxk on. I would seriously consider either Buffalo Bore’s or some other boutique company’s HOT loadings with a hard cast 200 gr lead bullet. Thx for the reminder about druggies. I always figured they would avoid people on a path. Thx for the info about Buffalo Bore Druggies come in multiple forms. Users and dealers/growers. Users are mostly not a problem but a lot of them will steal to get more stuff. Dealers/growers are more of a problem IMHO. They may be there to defend a load or a grow. In tuw Southwest it may be a mule or a cartel member as well. In CO where I am I don’t bother with heavy 45 Colt loads like I would in big bear country. I usually carry a 329 PD or a Mountain Gun both in 43 Mag. When I believe people are the larger threat I switch to the Federal 44B loading. It’s a 190 gr JHP at some ridiculous velocity. 1549 fps comes to mind but I don’t recall for sure. If you are carrying some kind of autoloader it’s just a simple mag swap. |
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Originally Posted By sendit14: "... expensive way to get semi-useful things." is both funny and true. The task is be armed with a non-single-use weapon to sufficiently defend against plausible threats while hiking. A wheel gun would be single use and reduce proficiency. A semiautomatic in a chest rig is an easy adaptation of ccw proficiency. It will also ameliorate the soccer moms in our group until I don't have to care. Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By raimius: It seems like you are trying to select the gear before deciding what the task really is. That's an expensive way to get semi-useful things. What are your most likely/most dangerous threats? How can you reasonably carry your defensive load out? Are you proficient with one already? What ate the legal restrictions? "... expensive way to get semi-useful things." is both funny and true. The task is be armed with a non-single-use weapon to sufficiently defend against plausible threats while hiking. A wheel gun would be single use and reduce proficiency. A semiautomatic in a chest rig is an easy adaptation of ccw proficiency. It will also ameliorate the soccer moms in our group until I don't have to care. |
You must play the game. You can't win. You can't break even. You can't quit the game.
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: I am curious as to how a revolver is a “single use weapon”? Last I checked all mine except the J Frames hold 6 rounds. They fit nicely in a chest rig Ali g with a couple of speed loader or speed strips if you are running a single action. If you are away from any area what might have and animal threat then just stepping g away to take a leak and swap the ammo. Originally Posted By Hasher1: Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By raimius: It seems like you are trying to select the gear before deciding what the task really is. That's an expensive way to get semi-useful things. What are your most likely/most dangerous threats? How can you reasonably carry your defensive load out? Are you proficient with one already? What ate the legal restrictions? "... expensive way to get semi-useful things." is both funny and true. The task is be armed with a non-single-use weapon to sufficiently defend against plausible threats while hiking. A wheel gun would be single use and reduce proficiency. A semiautomatic in a chest rig is an easy adaptation of ccw proficiency. It will also ameliorate the soccer moms in our group until I don’t have to care. I am curious as to how a revolver is a “single use weapon”? Last I checked all mine except the J Frames hold 6 rounds. They fit nicely in a chest rig Ali g with a couple of speed loader or speed strips if you are running a single action. If you are away from any area what might have and animal threat then just stepping g away to take a leak and swap the ammo. I should have clarified single use 'for me' - I would only carry this revolver while hiking and, honestly, would likely not be as proficient. |
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: Druggies come in multiple forms. Users and dealers/growers. Users are mostly not a problem but a lot of them will steal to get more stuff. Dealers/growers are more of a problem IMHO. They may be there to defend a load or a grow. In tuw Southwest it may be a mule or a cartel member as well. In CO where I am I don’t bother with heavy 45 Colt loads like I would in big bear country. I usually carry a 329 PD or a Mountain Gun both in 43 Mag. When I believe people are the larger threat I switch to the Federal 44B loading. It’s a 190 gr JHP at some ridiculous velocity. 1549 fps comes to mind but I don’t recall for sure. If you are carrying some kind of autoloader it’s just a simple mag swap. Originally Posted By Hasher1: Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By Hasher1: Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By Hasher1: An AR pistol and multiple mags is a hell of a weight penalty with a lot of bulk. In addition it would have to be carried in the hands to be readily available. This in turn is likely to generate calls to LE. The chances of you having to dispatch a rouge mtn lion or even a bear a re almost zero. A far more likely scenario is humans. A HPG chest rig and a good sheep gun on 41,44 or 45 Colt with good ammo is a far better solution. I use a no longer made Go Away Bear chest rig (it predates the HPG bag) from EGL labs with a 329PD and am very happy. If recoil bothers you a S&W Mountain Gun or a Ruger will do fine. Just had more weight penalty. I have even carried my RMR’ed G19 this way. I do have a trigger guard cover attached from Dale Fricke Holsters and it is attached to a small loop inside the bag so that it pulls away on the draw. On another note you are probably not going to e prison for dispatching and animal. Big fine. Probably. Losing the firearm. Likely yes. Prison? Very low probability. Triangulation? No. Go out during hunting season and listen for shots in the distance. If you are really lucky you might get within 30 degrees of bearing. Distance down your bearing? Best of luck unless it’s in close. Thx for the input ref weight. Now I'm wondering what kind of humans need dispatching? I mean, I've seen Deliverance but I always assumed that to be theater ... Thx for the guidance ref triangulation. I prefer the manual of arms for a Browning style pistol. Would a 10mm do the job? Deliverance is just thy a movie. How about weed growers? Others in the drug culture? General shit humans? Even the Appalachian Trail has had 10 murders in its history. Nothing wrong with a 10mm. My choice would be a Glock for Tue 13 rounds on board vs 7 in a Colt Delta Elite. But if a 1919 is your thing roxk on. I would seriously consider either Buffalo Bore’s or some other boutique company’s HOT loadings with a hard cast 200 gr lead bullet. Thx for the reminder about druggies. I always figured they would avoid people on a path. Thx for the info about Buffalo Bore Druggies come in multiple forms. Users and dealers/growers. Users are mostly not a problem but a lot of them will steal to get more stuff. Dealers/growers are more of a problem IMHO. They may be there to defend a load or a grow. In tuw Southwest it may be a mule or a cartel member as well. In CO where I am I don’t bother with heavy 45 Colt loads like I would in big bear country. I usually carry a 329 PD or a Mountain Gun both in 43 Mag. When I believe people are the larger threat I switch to the Federal 44B loading. It’s a 190 gr JHP at some ridiculous velocity. 1549 fps comes to mind but I don’t recall for sure. If you are carrying some kind of autoloader it’s just a simple mag swap. 👍 |
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Originally Posted By jhereg: Don't completely disregard the wheel guns. I find I get better accuracy at range w/ a 44 Mag than I do one of my semi auto pistols and it's delivering more energy when it hits. I'd probably go w/ a Glock 40 w/ an optic on it for what you're discussing but a 329PD, Glock 19, or Glock 20 would all work. Relatively light weight and reliable. Originally Posted By jhereg: Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By raimius: It seems like you are trying to select the gear before deciding what the task really is. That's an expensive way to get semi-useful things. What are your most likely/most dangerous threats? How can you reasonably carry your defensive load out? Are you proficient with one already? What ate the legal restrictions? "... expensive way to get semi-useful things." is both funny and true. The task is be armed with a non-single-use weapon to sufficiently defend against plausible threats while hiking. A wheel gun would be single use and reduce proficiency. A semiautomatic in a chest rig is an easy adaptation of ccw proficiency. It will also ameliorate the soccer moms in our group until I don't have to care. I was unclear about revolvers; the first pistol I ever shot was a snubby .357 magnum Due to an injury, I limit myself to 1911 style triggers. A revolver would be limited in use - for me - to hiking. |
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: Sounds like a 1911 in 10mm and the hottest loads you can handle are in order along with a backup mag plus a mag of regular carry amp to switch out to even if it’s just back at the car for the drive home. Agreed. I appreciate all comments in this thread, especially about the extra hot loads |
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Need to check state CCW laws before venturing out with overly large pistols. Here in SC, an AR pistol would be okay during big game season. Outside of October 11 to January 1, we have to observe a 12 inch OA limit on centerfire CCW pistols. After March 1, even my Super Single Six 22 cal with 6.5 inch barrel is not a legal CCW. A 4 inch 44 mag is legal. There are people around here who would carry Josh Randall's Mares Leg lever gun if not for the rule. LOL. A good thing is that here the LEO DNR guys are usually checking fishing licenses outside of hunting season and once you are away from trail heads you don't encounter them. |
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I'm picking up a CMMG Dissent .300BO pistol, 6.5" but also planning to add the 10.5" barrel upper as it would be much better suited to supers. That's not a "backpacking" defensive tool, simply too big and bulky and you're not going to have it as quickly accessible as a handgun. I've got close to 2000 collective miles hiking and backpacking some variations of the HPG Kit Bag; by far, my preferred method of carrying concealed when doing outdoors activities. A larger, brazed pistol format is really for camp defense (when sleeping) or if some form of SHTF elevated my defensive posture. It would be a situational defensive tool choice. The short 300BO pistol barrel is for maximum concealability and for suppressor use; very close range. Having the option to pop on a 10.5" barreled upper would open up more effectiveness with supers and where concealability is less of a concern. What's my handgun? For backpacking and hiking, it's a very basic Glock 43 (with upgraded iron sights), and loaded with 147 grain hard cast. Our biggest four legged threat in some areas are black bears. Is it enough? Debatable, but I have enough trail time from the PNW, Southwest, Midwest, and Southeast moving up to the Northeast to understand the risks and how to mitigate them. Some locations may have me decide to upgrade to .357 or .40S&W hard cast, but I'm more than comfortable with 9mm. Your activity should drive your gear and choices. Have I day hiked with a braced rifle caliber pistol? Yep, but it was more for proof of concept for SHTF than trail security; and they were never something that was quickly accessible. A good handgun will always be your best tool for concealed defensive use. As mentioned, know the hunting and off season rules regarding firearms. If you're legally carrying, killing a wild animal threat isn't a big deal, it happens all the time. The paranoid thing to do would be to dispatch and hide; the responsible thing to do is take pictures, record the location, and report it to the game management authorities. The north Georgia Cohutta National Forest is one of the largest black bear populated areas in the southeast, and there a bunch of hiking trails all over. I haven't been there over the past few years, but when we did a bunch of backpacking, just about everyone I ran into was packing (open carry) a handgun and I saw a couple of SBRs (could have been AR pistol), and even one shotgun. During hunting season, you'll need a license. ROCK6 |
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
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I want to build a compact gun that resembles what you describe. This, with a folding brace or on an SBR lower is my leading candidate https://store.fm-products.com/catalog/mike-15/300blk |
I know I'll never go home.
So set fire to your ships, and past regrets, and be free.
So set fire to your ships, and past regrets, and be free.
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Originally Posted By Hasher1: . Deliverance is just thy a movie. How about weed growers? Others in the drug culture? General shit humans? Even the Appalachian Trail has had 10 murders in its history. Nothing wrong with a 10mm. My choice would be a Glock for Tue 13 rounds on board vs 7 in a Colt Delta Elite. But if a 1919 is your thing roxk on. I would seriously consider either Buffalo Bore’s or some other boutique company’s HOT loadings with a hard cast 200 gr lead bullet. Originally Posted By Hasher1: Originally Posted By sendit14: Originally Posted By Hasher1: An AR pistol and multiple mags is a hell of a weight penalty with a lot of bulk. In addition it would have to be carried in the hands to be readily available. This in turn is likely to generate calls to LE. The chances of you having to dispatch a rouge mtn lion or even a bear a re almost zero. A far more likely scenario is humans. A HPG chest rig and a good sheep gun on 41,44 or 45 Colt with good ammo is a far better solution. I use a no longer made Go Away Bear chest rig (it predates the HPG bag) from EGL labs with a 329PD and am very happy. If recoil bothers you a S&W Mountain Gun or a Ruger will do fine. Just had more weight penalty. I have even carried my RMR’ed G19 this way. I do have a trigger guard cover attached from Dale Fricke Holsters and it is attached to a small loop inside the bag so that it pulls away on the draw. On another note you are probably not going to e prison for dispatching and animal. Big fine. Probably. Losing the firearm. Likely yes. Prison? Very low probability. Triangulation? No. Go out during hunting season and listen for shots in the distance. If you are really lucky you might get within 30 degrees of bearing. Distance down your bearing? Best of luck unless it’s in close. Thx for the input ref weight. Now I'm wondering what kind of humans need dispatching? I mean, I've seen Deliverance but I always assumed that to be theater ... Thx for the guidance ref triangulation. I prefer the manual of arms for a Browning style pistol. Would a 10mm do the job? Deliverance is just thy a movie. How about weed growers? Others in the drug culture? General shit humans? Even the Appalachian Trail has had 10 murders in its history. Nothing wrong with a 10mm. My choice would be a Glock for Tue 13 rounds on board vs 7 in a Colt Delta Elite. But if a 1919 is your thing roxk on. I would seriously consider either Buffalo Bore’s or some other boutique company’s HOT loadings with a hard cast 200 gr lead bullet. Until 2 years ago I hunted the Cascades near Snoqualmie Pass. The forest service roads there are good enough that tweakers can make their way into the backcountry. I was finding abandoned meth cook sites, occupied squatter camps, and car chop operations on almost every hunt. I encountered sketchy people who were clearly urban folk looking for a private place to do their business on numerous occasions. I never went out without my sidearm. Originally I carried it because I recognized the possibility of calling up a big cat while coyote hunting, but I came to value it for its deterrent value when I'd interact with sketchy people. |
I know I'll never go home.
So set fire to your ships, and past regrets, and be free.
So set fire to your ships, and past regrets, and be free.
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There are very few places in the CONUS where any or all of these things can/will come true. Dogs are probably a greater threat to you and your family doing “outdoor” things. A full size handgun, perhaps weapon light, perhaps optic and hardcast ammo would protect you and your family very well. Perhaps you should get out of the house a little more as the “outdoors” are not that frightening. |
| What's your normal CCW? I'd start there. I don't know many hikers that carry rifles or rifle sized pistols unless they are actively hunting or in legit brown bear country. |
BikerNut:
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
Normal people like motorcycles. Real people like motorcycles.
People who don't like motorcycles are just... weird.
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way over thinking this......I have land in black bear and mountain lion country that is surrounded by ATV trails and a million public land deer hunters. The decision tree should be simple: 1. 300blk pistol suppressed is heavy, cumbersome and not really concealable. If avoiding uncomfortable encounters is a priority, a slung and suppressed "rifle" is a hard conversation topic to ignore should you pass a ranger on the trail--which is a much more likely encounter than having Leo track you down after a weapon discharge 2. Are grizzlies a threat? If so--you need a big bore pistol and ideally a slung and ready for action 12 gauge....and lots of bear mace.....and bells on your shoes.... 300blk has no place here really let alone suppressed shooting subs-- 3, If no grizzles, don't over think it. 10mm pistol or even a 9mm with good penetrating ammo will handle 99.9% of your problems and be concealable and actually carried at all times. Lots of guys like the hard cast stuff from places like buffalo bore. I like the handgun hunter stuff from hornady cause it's easier for me to get and practice with. With predators you want penetration since shot placement will likely be poor under the stress of an animal attack. I carry a S&W 10mm when the bears are moving heavy and when it's deer season cause it's legal where I am to take deer with it. All other times, it's a simple Glock 19 loaded with good ammo. No one is going to "triangulate" your position from a single or even a few gun shots. Hell, where I am at no one will even notice. |
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants" - Thomas Jefferson
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With the Recover Tactical chassis that holster clip thing to the left in the picture also serves to cover the trigger. Yeah, not a huge fan of that part of teh design either but I see why they did it that way since it's about the only way possible, especially if you have the magazine holder on the front. If I were to carry mine in a bag and I wanted one in the chamber, I figured I could connect the holster things (with the paddle piece off) using a piece of 550 cord and it would snap off like using a trigger guard holster in a chest or waist pack. That said, while I have previously carried a variety of handguns while hiking and backpacking in most of the southern half of the lower 48 states, my main gun for the last twenty or so years has been a lowly S&W 642 and a Safariland speedloader. I prioritize small, light and the ability to put a shot shell in it when I'm kayaking or fishing. Back when I bought it I picked up a small camera pouch that it would fit in that would fit on my backpack's hip belt. I'm not saying I've walked into ranger stations and such with it on, but I've never had anyone ever mention the old SunDog camera pouch either. I sometimes carry it in a small waistpack on the front and when I'm not wearing it, it's in the top pouch of my pack since it doesn't weight hardly anything and I just put the gun in it and wear it around camp when I'm stopped. Depending on where I am, if there are more people I've started carrying my old Shield 9mm and a spare mag more often than I used to. I've been around black bears, had them in camp sniffing around while I was in a hammock and outside of my tent, and never worried about them. Practice good campsite management, including bear bags or containers, cooking and washing away from camp, etc. I'm not carrying a long gun unless I'm hunting, LARPing, or closer to the border (and I try to do my homework before I go camping). Chest packs work for some folks, I sweat too much and don't care for them except when it's cooler out; personal preference. |