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Originally Posted By towerofpower94: I wouldn't put this on them. I don't think they can be expected to try every RDS combo on the market to see if their internal design works with the hardware supplied with the exemplar they have at the time. What if they did discover this? Should they have redesigned the slide to be Xmm taller so the screws didn't bottom out? What does that do to the interoperability between it and accessories like holsters and the like. The onus is on us, the end user, to figure out if the stuff we bolt onto our guns helps or hurts. Not trying to cover for PSA, but I think it's a bit of a stretch to put the blame for long Holosun screws on them. The picture of it on their website and in their advertisement shows the RDS already mounted. It was sold as a unit, not two purchases. I think PSA is responsible for at least not trying it out before selling it but other than mentioning it in this thread I am not going to say anything more. Not that big of deal. I took it out to the range and fired it for the first time this morning. I put 200 rds though it. Great shooting pistol. Hardly any recoil and everything fed properly. Just like I hoped it to be. After 200 rds my 5 mm screws held the RDS tight and that was without any Locktite. I'm not going to worry about it. |
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Originally Posted By PalmettoStateArmory: If you do need to send it back once you test again, just PM me. Thank you, Josiah Originally Posted By PalmettoStateArmory: Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Got the Rock back out today to see if the handloads would cycle. I did another 23+1 setup and the first round failed to eject with the slide barely moving. The next 2-3rds barely cycled with me having to eject the fired cases. I then had a few that ejected the case 10-15ft to the 4oclock, but apparently failed to reset the striker. Pulling the slide to the rear while keeping the loaded round in the chamber and then tapping the rear to ensure it was fully in battery took care of the dead striker. The last 12-15rd a fired, extracted, and fed without issue to slide lock. Ran out of time to put another 50 AE FMJ through it, but I’m starting to think mine is acting like another guys who posted in the Reloading sub forum. It fails to eject until a few rounds warm it up and then it’s good to go. I’ll do another 50rds each of AE FMJ and handloads and if it’s still giving me fits I’ll plan to send it back to get checked out. If you do need to send it back once you test again, just PM me. Thank you, Josiah Josiah I sent a PM last night. Got the Rock out again yesterday. Still failing to eject and/or reset the striker on the first round in a cold gun when loaded 23+1. This was with handloads and AE FMJ. Once 2-4rds have been fired it chugs along just fine with handloads and the AE, ejecting ~15ft to the 4oclock, but it just doesn't want to run when it's stone cold. I'm sure you guys will sort it out. |
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Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Josiah I sent a PM last night. Got the Rock out again yesterday. Still failing to eject and/or reset the striker on the first round in a cold gun when loaded 23+1. This was with handloads and AE FMJ. Once 2-4rds have been fired it chugs along just fine with handloads and the AE, ejecting ~15ft to the 4oclock, but it just doesn't want to run when it's stone cold. I'm sure you guys will sort it out. |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: What about with SS195/198? How fast are your handloads going? I was testing the 62 subs from Fiocchi the other day and noted the Rock liked to choke on the first 1 round then once it got some heat, fine and dandy.. Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: Originally Posted By towerofpower94: Josiah I sent a PM last night. Got the Rock out again yesterday. Still failing to eject and/or reset the striker on the first round in a cold gun when loaded 23+1. This was with handloads and AE FMJ. Once 2-4rds have been fired it chugs along just fine with handloads and the AE, ejecting ~15ft to the 4oclock, but it just doesn't want to run when it's stone cold. I'm sure you guys will sort it out. I have no factory ammo except the AE 40gr FMJ. Here's my load, as chrono'd by a LabRadar. Velocity data is from a 10rd group. I'd say it's moving pretty quick, at least compared to SS197SR I used before getting into handloading 5.7, per the two additional data points below comparing my loads and SS197SR in my SBR'd PS90. Rock unsuppressed and suppressed are within the same ES: Win Auto Comp 5.4gr Hornady 40gr VMAX Rem 7.5 SRP OAL: 1.585" Avg: 1915 ES: 122 SD: 36.5 SBR'd PS90 suppressed with recored SFN-57, also 10rd groups: Win Auto Comp 5.4gr Hornady 40gr VMAX Rem 7.5 SRP OAL: 1.585" Avg: 2171 ES: 82 SD: 28.8 And SS197SR from the same SBR'd PS90 suppressed with a record SFN-57. 10rd group: Avg: 1960 ES: 61 SD: 17.1 |
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Originally Posted By towerofpower94: I have no factory ammo except the AE 40gr FMJ. Here's my load, as chrono'd by a LabRadar. Velocity data is from a 10rd group. I'd say it's moving pretty quick, at least compared to SS197SR I used before getting into handloading 5.7, per the two additional data points below comparing my loads and SS197SR in my SBR'd PS90. Rock unsuppressed and suppressed are within the same ES: Win Auto Comp 5.4gr Hornady 40gr VMAX Rem 7.5 SRP OAL: 1.585" Avg: 1915 ES: 122 SD: 36.5 SBR'd PS90 suppressed with recored SFN-57, also 10rd groups: Win Auto Comp 5.4gr Hornady 40gr VMAX Rem 7.5 SRP OAL: 1.585" Avg: 2171 ES: 82 SD: 28.8 And SS197SR from the same SBR'd PS90 suppressed with a record SFN-57. 10rd group: Avg: 1960 ES: 61 SD: 17.1 |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: I'd say that should be more than plenty of extra oomph for reliable cold cycle. Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: Originally Posted By towerofpower94: I have no factory ammo except the AE 40gr FMJ. Here's my load, as chrono'd by a LabRadar. Velocity data is from a 10rd group. I'd say it's moving pretty quick, at least compared to SS197SR I used before getting into handloading 5.7, per the two additional data points below comparing my loads and SS197SR in my SBR'd PS90. Rock unsuppressed and suppressed are within the same ES: Win Auto Comp 5.4gr Hornady 40gr VMAX Rem 7.5 SRP OAL: 1.585" Avg: 1915 ES: 122 SD: 36.5 SBR'd PS90 suppressed with recored SFN-57, also 10rd groups: Win Auto Comp 5.4gr Hornady 40gr VMAX Rem 7.5 SRP OAL: 1.585" Avg: 2171 ES: 82 SD: 28.8 And SS197SR from the same SBR'd PS90 suppressed with a record SFN-57. 10rd group: Avg: 1960 ES: 61 SD: 17.1 Agreed. AutoComp is a gassy powder (since it’s designed to work pistol comps) and once the gun is running the cases end up 15’ or more to the 4oclock. The last outing I put a 2rd mag in to ensure it wasn’t just a fully loaded mag putting too much pressure on the slide, but I still had weak or no ejection on a cold gun. |
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So I just shot mine for the first time today. I’m selling my ruger. I like the rock better! So ruger just came out with a 5.7 carbine. Will psa follow suit? If they do, I’ll buy one. |
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Originally Posted By mjohn3006: So I just shot mine for the first time today. I’m selling my ruger. I like the rock better! So ruger just came out with a 5.7 carbine. Will psa follow suit? If they do, I’ll buy one. FN P90 magazine parents recently expired... Wink wink... |
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Originally Posted By RDTCU: FN P90 magazine parents recently expired... Wink wink... Originally Posted By RDTCU: Originally Posted By mjohn3006: So I just shot mine for the first time today. I’m selling my ruger. I like the rock better! So ruger just came out with a 5.7 carbine. Will psa follow suit? If they do, I’ll buy one. FN P90 magazine parents recently expired... Wink wink... You killed their parents!!!!!  I want an in grip mag though like the ruger carbine. I have an sbr p90. |
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Originally Posted By lazyr2u: When is the 22lr conversion kits coming out ? Or are there any other caliber options in the near future. This exact long slide gun in 10mm……… I’d buy it. But that would be quite a change. Would be easier to offer a 6” 10mm dagger |
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| So, question on the screw length thing. Are you just measuring the length of the threads or the entire screw? I ask because I recently got my 5.7 Rock and the 407k that came as part of the combo. There are only two sets of screws with the 407k. One is a smaller thread than the M4 but both are 12mm end to end. |
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Suppressor compatibility question: Is this a fixed barrel gun or a browning tilt barrel? @ me please and thank you |
I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
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Originally Posted By bradpierson26: Suppressor compatibility question: Is this a fixed barrel gun or a browning tilt barrel? @ me please and thank you sub 6oz can with subs 8oz can with subs no bueno |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: @bradpierson26 the barrel is neither fixed or tilting. It moves back and forth ever so slightly. It's always recommended NOT to use Nielson device/boosted cans. You want sub 10oz cans and sub 6oz cans for subsonics sub 6oz can with subs 8oz can with subs no bueno Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: Originally Posted By bradpierson26: Suppressor compatibility question: Is this a fixed barrel gun or a browning tilt barrel? @ me please and thank you sub 6oz can with subs 8oz can with subs no bueno Thanks for the feedback You’re confident I can go all the way to 10oz on supers? No desire for subs |
I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
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Originally Posted By bradpierson26: neat Thanks for the feedback You're confident I can go all the way to 10oz on supers? No desire for subs  Yankee Hill Machine (YHM) R9 Suppressor |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: It would be pretty darn close. I ran the 11oz R9 on a Ruger 57 @ 6:48 in this video.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iL1m3RMg8IThat was a 1/2x28 fixed mount, not a Nielsen, right? |
I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
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Originally Posted By colonel00: So, question on the screw length thing. Are you just measuring the length of the threads or the entire screw? I ask because I recently got my 5.7 Rock and the 407k that came as part of the combo. There are only two sets of screws with the 407k. One is a smaller thread than the M4 but both are 12mm end to end. The lengths that are mentioned in the later posts are the overall length of the screws.The smaller thread screws are 6-32. I have an RK1 Slide on the way and will use a digital tire depth gauge to measure the exact depth of the slide’s MRD mounting holes. Add that to the thickness of the 407K base ( the 507K base is 7.1mm thick ) and you’ll have the maximum overall length of the screws that won’t press on each half of the striker housing. |
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Originally Posted By County804: The lengths that are mentioned in the later posts are the overall length of the screws.The smaller thread screws are 6-32. I have an RK1 Slide on the way and will use a digital tire depth gauge to measure the exact depth of the slide’s MRD mounting holes. Add that to the thickness of the 407K base ( the 507K base is 7.1mm thick ) and you’ll have the maximum overall length of the screws that won’t press on each half of the striker housing. Thanks. i was just confused because I thought I saw where someone said that the new ones were coming with 8mm screws which was odd compared to the 12mm I got. Anyway, I had some 6mm that don't have quite as much thread as I'd like but do have enough to get a good bite until I get around to shortening the longer ones. |
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Since the 407K has exactly the same dimensions as the 507k which has a base thickness of 7.1mm, a 6mm screw ( overall length ) seems to be way too short. ( Also, the Holosun mounting screws have a much smaller diameter head and thinner than a standard metric Torx screw. If you use a standard size metric Torx screw it will protrude above the Holosun mounting hole and will therefore not be as long in use as its actual overall length ). See this posting and photo from the PSA Discussion Board, Rock 5.7 Pistol, Rock Optics Topic: The thickness of my Holosun mounting base is 7.1 mm ( a 507K X2 ) So in my case trimming the screws to 7.1 mm would have resulted in them sticking through my Holosuns base roughly .2 mm Not nearly long enough to attach the optic properly. The mounting screws sit slightly recessed in the mounting base. Here is the findings of the same poster as to what worked for him, “ Anyway here are the measurements that I finally arrived at that worked for me. My mounting screws ended up being just over 9.5 mm long. Any longer than 9.5 mm and they will just protrude through the threaded hole in the slide and possibly contact your striker shells.” Here’s a link to a photo of his screw showing the measurement. If you don’t have an accurate way to measure the depth of slide mounting holes, take a toothpick and put it into the hole. Mark it at the top of the slide and measure the length of that portion that was inside the hole. Add that dimension to the thickness of your 407k sight base ( which should be 7.1mm ) and subtract .1mm to account for any measuring errors. That should give you the screw dimension ( total overall length ) that will engage all of the threads but not be long enough to protrude through the bottom of the mounting holes in the slide and contact the two halves of the striker housing assembly. |
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Originally Posted By County804: Since the 407K has exactly the same dimensions as the 507k which has a base thickness of 7.1mm, a 6mm screw ( overall length ) seems to be way too short. ( Also, the Holosun mounting screws have a much smaller diameter head and thinner than a standard metric Torx screw. If you use a standard size metric Torx screw it will protrude above the Holosun mounting hole and will therefore not be as long in use as its actual overall length ). See this posting and photo from the PSA Discussion Board, Rock 5.7 Pistol, Rock Optics Topic: The thickness of my Holosun mounting base is 7.1 mm ( a 507K X2 ) So in my case trimming the screws to 7.1 mm would have resulted in them sticking through my Holosuns base roughly .2 mm Not nearly long enough to attach the optic properly. The mounting screws sit slightly recessed in the mounting base. https://postimg.cc/qNW2kJ4T Here is the findings of the same poster as to what worked for him, “ Anyway here are the measurements that I finally arrived at that worked for me. My mounting screws ended up being just over 9.5 mm long. Any longer than 9.5 mm and they will just protrude through the threaded hole in the slide and possibly contact your striker shells.” Here’s a link to a photo of his screw showing the measurement. https://postimg.cc/K1j4CPyp If you don’t have an accurate way to measure the depth of slide mounting holes, take a toothpick and put it into the hole. Mark it at the top of the slide and measure the length of that portion that was inside the hole. Add that dimension to the thickness of your 407k sight base ( which should be 7.1mm ) and subtract .1mm to account for any measuring errors. That should give you the screw dimension ( total overall length ) that will engage all of the threads but not be long enough to protrude through the bottom of the mounting holes in the slide and contact the two halves of the striker housing assembly. The screws I used were from a Swampfox screw kit. Very handy kit to have for $20. I thought I measured them at 6mm but the website says they are 8.1. They are also countersunk heads (or whatever you call them) and smaller than the Holosun screws so they sit down in the sight a bit. Not ideal but should hold for a range session or two. https://www.swampfoxoptics.com/ultimate-red-dot-screw-pack |
| Shot mine yesterday with SS195. Accuracy was mediocre, but shootability was insane. The dot never left the window. This is now my favorite gun, and will be a carry gun once I get a holster. The Excess Arms +7 worked flawlessly as well, although it is a little difficult getting the 29th and 30th rounds in. |
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I think my measurements are incorrect. I may have not measured from the top of the screw to the tip. I just measured the screws and they are just under 12mm in length from the top of the screw to the tip. I had a new RK1 optics ready slide delivered today and have measured the exact depth of the hole from the top of the RDS slide cutout to the top of the striker housing using a digital tire tread depth gauge to get the exact distance so as to get the exact length of the screw. The depth of the RDS mounting holes from the top of the slide cutout to the top of the Striker housing is 3.4mm. With the base of the Holosun being just a bit over 7mm thick, it would make the maximum length of the mounting screws so as not to contact the striker housing half’s as 10.4mm. I cut and filed mine to 10.3mm to take into account any inaccuracies in my measurements and they fit fine. |
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| In measuring the actual correct screw length, it’s much easier to measure from the top of the head to the tip using digital calipers as well as the thickness of the RDS sight base to calculate the correct length as well as measuring my progress as I slowly filed down the screw. That way you don’t need to consider the chamfer of the head, or the length of the threaded portion of the screw, only the depth of the hole and the thickness of the RDS base to calculate the correct maximum length and shorten it to size. |
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Originally Posted By County804: In measuring the actual correct screw length, it's much easier to measure from the top of the head to the tip using digital calipers as well as the thickness of the RDS sight base to calculate the correct length as well as measuring my progress as I slowly filed down the screw. That way you don't need to consider the chamfer of the head, or the length of the threaded portion of the screw, only the depth of the hole and the thickness of the RDS base to calculate the correct maximum length and shorten it to size. |
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Originally Posted By November5: While it is easier, it explains the discrepancy between your 10.3mm length and other posters 7.1mm length. And varying head sizes make it impractical when trying to measure across a variety of different screws. Long story short, PSA should send the correct length screws on the adapter kit, IMO. |
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| While they should include the correct size screws in a combo kit, they are like a big box store of firearms, parts and accessories so I think it unlikely they will. However, the least they could do is supply the hole depth of the RDS mounting holes so a purchaser could determine how long the mounting screws should be. Especially since each different RDS has different base thicknesses, different chamfer diameters and depths and may use either metric or standard threads. |
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Screw length measurement depends on the type of head the screw has. From the web “ Length is measured from the point at which the head sits flat with the surface, to the tip of the threads. Hex, pan, truss, button, socket cap, and round head screws are measured from right under the head to the end of the threads. Flat head screws are measured from the top of the head to the tip of the threads. “ So, in the case of the screws included with the Holosuns, which are flat head Torx screws, they are actually measured from the top of the head to the tip “. I was the original poster of the 7.1mm length and must admit I really screwed up that dimension. I quadruple checked the 10.3mm overall screw length for the factory supplied metric m4 Torx screws that come with the Holosun 507K ( and apparently the 407 K as well ). Obviously, other RDS sights will have different base dimensions so the only constant is the depth of the mounting holes in the Rock Slide so that the mounting screws don’t extend past the bottom of your RDS more than 3.3mm whatever type of head they have. Of course, if your RDS requires it be mounted using one of the adapter plates the included mounting screws are hopefully correct for mounting the adapter plate. You’ll have to measure the hole depth of the adapter plate to determine if the RDS mounting screws need to be shortened. |
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Originally Posted By November5: Holster from we_are_nerd showed up today. Very well made, will likely order more holsters from them. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/173129/A43732ED-0E5C-45F4-A2A0-3882B5AD94A7-2668741.jpg He’s a member here or is there a website? |
I wouldn't stand in front of a piss-filled supersoaker. Does that make it a good pistol? - Caboose314
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
I thought I was covered for 22 cans, but the NFAids is a bitch when it mutates - themagikbullet
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Originally Posted By bradpierson26: He's a member here or is there a website? Originally Posted By bradpierson26: Originally Posted By November5: Holster from we_are_nerd showed up today. Very well made, will likely order more holsters from them. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/173129/A43732ED-0E5C-45F4-A2A0-3882B5AD94A7-2668741.jpg He's a member here or is there a website? |
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PSA has a stupid good price on a Rock/AR combo right now, though 50 bucks more for a threaded/optics combo would be more better. PSA combo ETA: just noticed the URL has the word Blem in it, but not mentioned on the page anywhere. |
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Originally Posted By RDTCU: 5.7 needs barrel length for velocity. Originally Posted By RDTCU: Originally Posted By SoVa: The more I think about it the more the thought of a mid size rock grows on me, the current model is about the size of a glock 17, I would really like to see one about the size of a glock 19 now. 5.7 needs barrel length for velocity. Oh look.... 😆 Attached File Attached File |
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Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: That's a tad large for a pistol can :D Originally Posted By Buffman_LT1: Originally Posted By sagillman: Well shit, I should've read this thread before I bought one. Wanted to use my turbo to suppress. Guess I'll return it, maybe the s&w 5.7 will be the ticket. It suppresses well, it just won't cycle.
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