Mike's OFFICIAL H&R Retro thread (Page 156 of 158)
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We have run into some delays getting the 605 and 606 out. Mostly because we burned through a ton of gray charging handles and didn’t save enough for the new models. I will post updates as I have them |
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Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
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Our 5.56 bcg’s are mag phos with chrome bore. IDK when the next batch of 653’s will be available. Put in a notification email request, they are not a hot seller so I doubt you will miss out |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
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Originally Posted By mike_nds: IDK when the next batch of 653’s will be available. Put in a notification email request, they are not a hot seller so I doubt you will miss out I guess there is no accounting for taste, but IMO the 653 is the best of the H&R retro line. I am surprised they are not more popular. With just a .2 inch longer barrel than the Colt GI rifles, it really needs no SBR or other mods, it looks eyeball correct right out of the box. |
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Originally Posted By kozaki: Yes, it's super clean. Details? The furniture, duck bill flash hider and triangle charging handle came from brownells. The 601 lower parts kit came from ar15sport. The bcg is either H&R or brownells. The sling is from an SP1 |
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Originally Posted By fulautotank: The upper, lower receivers and barrel assembly are H&R. The furniture, duck bill flash hider and triangle charging handle came from brownells. The 601 lower parts kit came from ar15sport. The bcg is either H&R or brownells. The sling is from an SP1 It all certainly came together nicely. 
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Originally Posted By Slufstuff: I guess there is no accounting for taste, but IMO the 653 is the best of the H&R retro line. I am surprised they are not more popular. With just a .2 inch longer barrel than the Colt GI rifles, it really needs no SBR or other mods, it looks eyeball correct right out of the box. I agree. When I was growing up, the pencil barrel carbine was the iconic silhouette that held my fascination. IMHO the 653 and 652 are peak AR-15 |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
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If an LMG clone isn't going to happen, will THESE FOREARM GRIPS be okay? If so, what rifle, upper, and/or lower would be the closest to an LMG? |
miker84 on Border Patrol agent: "...In hindsight, I wish that I'd thanked him...he has to throw bean bags at rip crews that are shooting at him with weapons that DOJ let them have..."
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Originally Posted By itsayspull: Hey Mike, Will the Airforce 604's be back in stock soon? I was just about to pick one up Also fulautotank inspired me to post my 601 Clone, also using H&R receivers https://ibin.co/w800/9Ka0Gsm4epVP.png |
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Originally Posted By itsayspull: Hey Mike, Will the Airforce 604's be back in stock soon? I was just about to pick one up Also fulautotank inspired me to post my 601 Clone, also using H&R receivers https://ibin.co/w800/9Ka0Gsm4epVP.png 
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Originally Posted By Sierradyne: Calling this my Arsenal Rebuild 601 https://i.postimg.cc/XV2kbpYL/20260427-180008.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/38c1gdMR/PSX-20260427-180523.jpg |
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Originally Posted By Sierradyne: Calling this my Arsenal Rebuild 601 https://i.postimg.cc/XV2kbpYL/20260427-180008.jpg https://i.postimg.cc/38c1gdMR/PSX-20260427-180523.jpg Sexy beast.  |
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Technical question for Mike of H&R: Bought new H&R M16A2 20" rifle at PSA in Columbia. Been saving for one already have your M16 A1 and XM177. Both very accurate look great. Q: Can you or anyone tell me what the height of the Front sight post (FSP) on your H&R M16A2? Reason I'm asking the Front Sight Assembly (FSA) on my H&R A2 is "F" marked for flat top so it's actually 040" higher than a true M16A2 FSA. Did H&R make any corrections for this, because the 8/3 elevation knob calibrated for M855 with lower FSA. So that 8/3 elevation knob will be thrown off some albeit low at shorter, it increases at higher distances. Wondering if H&R might have used a shorter FSP (.270" - .040" = .230") or other approach to address the higher FSA? I took some calipers out and my rifle and FSP appears to be .230" from FSA base. Standard square post IIUC is .270 inches for A2. Maybe because it's cut shorter or cranked down. Your response appreciated. Advanced apologizes to group if this has been hashed out ad nauseam or answered somewhere. I don't follow these threads much. My link to my rifle: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/127qcWHu05Q |
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Understand that. But technically the FSP would have to be adjusted down lowered by .040" to first get you to the correct standard A2 overall height. So everything works together as originally designed on the 1980's era M16A2's. That standard A2 height used back in the day matches up correctly with the pre-set M855 ballistic calibrations (i.e., , 4, 5, 6, 7., 8 marks) on that rear 8/3 elevation wheel. A higher FSP throws it off. The point of impact (POI) will be lower than elevation wheel markings above 300 meter zero. Maybe cranking the FSP down few clicks hits the magic spot lowering it by .040" or close on the H&R retro version. And then you zero on 8/3 at 300 meters and the rest of the 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 marks are all dailed in right as designed. Or maybe you crank the FSP down all the way and it still doesn't get you there to .040" lower and the 8/3 rear elevation wheel is off. Mine from factory does look ~ .230" high (.040" inches lower than standard .270" high one) using my cheap calipers. I recognize most people don't have access to long ranges or even shoot at those distances using irons. And none of this may even matter to most. Just trying to get the story directly from H&R. If nothing was done, I guess after you zero at 300 meters, anybody can still make their own dope card with correct # of clicks for 400, 500, 600, 700. 800 meters... albeit off than the elevation wheel markings the further out you go. |
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The tip of the F-marked FSP is in the same position as the non F-marked FSP, the same height when sighted in. The shelf of the FSP is lower or higher in relation to the ledge on the FSB, depending on your setup. The purpose of the taller FSP is if you run out of threads on the mil-spec FSP. Most 20" barrels it's not a problem whether or not you have an F-marked FSB. You're able to sight in just fine. Sight radius is the determining factor. Shorter barrels, it can be a problem. The rear sight proper sight in technique does not change. The rear sight is not in the equation. |
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I guess you could wind up with the tip of the FSP at same height as one a non-marked shorter FSA, but you might not. These after all are gross 1.25 MOA clicks, not fine .25 MOA ones. Checking other websites, looks like this topic gets dredged up debated a lot. Not aware as I spend most my time offline in the real world. I do get this isn't precision bench rest shooting lol. A "F" 1.98" height being substituted for a non-F 1.94" FSB given the accuracy of a typical rack grade M16A2 being 3 MOA won't amount to much. It's hair splitting. Maybe a few clicks difference off the 8/3 hash marks. Would a standard A2 FSB been better? Arguably yes from buyers perspective. Historically correct and probably less corrections on the 8/3 elevation wheel. Not a deal breaker for me. I'll take it out stretch the legs. I'd made my own dope sheet with my own clicks any way. My H&R M16A2 rifle looks great and price was right. And if the sights are straight not canted, I don't run out of windage, it groups tight like the other two H&R retro AR's - I'll be very happy. Thanks for input Assh. |
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Originally Posted By MC6Jumper: I guess you could wind up with the tip of the FSP at same height as one a non-marked shorter FSA, but you might not. These after all are gross 1.25 MOA clicks, not fine .25 MOA ones. Checking other websites, looks like this topic gets dredged up debated a lot. Not aware as I spend most my time offline in the real world. I do get this isn't precision bench rest shooting lol. A "F" 1.98" height being substituted for a non-F 1.94" FSB given the accuracy of a typical rack grade M16A2 being 3 MOA won't amount to much. It's hair splitting. Maybe a few clicks difference off the 8/3 hash marks. Would a standard A2 FSB been better? Arguably yes from buyers perspective. Historically correct and probably less corrections on the 8/3 elevation wheel. Not a deal breaker for me. I'll take it out stretch the legs. I'd made my own dope sheet with my own clicks any way. My H&R M16A2 rifle looks great and price was right. And if the sights are straight not canted, I don't run out of windage, it groups tight like the other two H&R retro AR's - I'll be very happy. Thanks for input Assh. https://doublestarusa.com/front-sight-tower-undrilled-parkerized-750-standard.html |
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Originally Posted By grondike: One of these and a quick trip to John Thomas at Retro Arms Works would have it installed correctly and looking like it came that way from the factory. https://doublestarusa.com/front-sight-tower-undrilled-parkerized-750-standard.html I thought they didn't make B marked FSB these anymore. And that was why H&R used the taller F marked. I will give Retro Arms a call, thanks. |
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Originally Posted By MC6Jumper: I thought they didn't make B marked FSB these anymore. And that was why H&R used the taller F marked. I will give Retro Arms a call, thanks. Originally Posted By MC6Jumper: Originally Posted By grondike: One of these and a quick trip to John Thomas at Retro Arms Works would have it installed correctly and looking like it came that way from the factory. https://doublestarusa.com/front-sight-tower-undrilled-parkerized-750-standard.html I thought they didn't make B marked FSB these anymore. And that was why H&R used the taller F marked. I will give Retro Arms a call, thanks. https://doublestarusa.com/parts/sights.html I think H&R/PSA uses F-marked FSBs on the A2/A4 type barrels because it's easier to just stock one part. |
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Originally Posted By grondike: I think the B is just a forging code, but Doublestar makes standard and F-marked front sight bases for both .625" barrels and .750" barrels. https://doublestarusa.com/parts/sights.html I think H&R/PSA uses F-marked FSBs on the A2/A4 type barrels because it's easier to just stock one part. Maybe easier to stock. Or not understanding how pre-calibrated elevation sight systems work. They've been in use on small arms since the Civil War. Change anything like the FS height or ammunition - the entire elevation system is thrown off. The error created is amplified over distance. Some armorers building these retros or on H&R's production team weren't even born when fixed handles were in service. |
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Originally Posted By MC6Jumper: Maybe easier to stock. Or not understanding how pre-calibrated elevation sight systems work. They've been in use on small arms since the Civil War. Change anything like the FS height or ammunition - the entire elevation system is thrown off. The error created is amplified over distance. Some armorers building these retros or on H&R's production team weren't even born when fixed handles were in service. Originally Posted By MC6Jumper: Originally Posted By grondike: I think the B is just a forging code, but Doublestar makes standard and F-marked front sight bases for both .625" barrels and .750" barrels. https://doublestarusa.com/parts/sights.html I think H&R/PSA uses F-marked FSBs on the A2/A4 type barrels because it's easier to just stock one part. Maybe easier to stock. Or not understanding how pre-calibrated elevation sight systems work. They've been in use on small arms since the Civil War. Change anything like the FS height or ammunition - the entire elevation system is thrown off. The error created is amplified over distance. Some armorers building these retros or on H&R's production team weren't even born when fixed handles were in service. The last part of your post is just nonsense. No one who works at Pedersoli was alive when muskets were in service, same with the CMP and M1 Garands, so I guess they can't make them? |
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Originally Posted By MC6Jumper: Maybe easier to stock. Or not understanding how pre-calibrated elevation sight systems work. They've been in use on small arms since the Civil War. Change anything like the FS height or ammunition - the entire elevation system is thrown off. The error created is amplified over distance. Some armorers building these retros or on H&R's production team weren't even born when fixed handles were in service. There’s plenty of A2s out there still. |
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Originally Posted By SSeric02: Recently grabbed an H&R Government M16A2 Carbine upper to go on an old Lauer Custom Weaponry lower I had stashed away. Very nicely done upper and scratches my A2 itch. Although, I was a little disappointed to have to order a set of the H&R retro six hole handguards separately since the upper came with B5s. https://i.imgur.com/B2E2Tp2.jpg This is my favorite carbine. I will be picking one up soon. I may build an XM4 clone later. But as it is, it’s perfect. |
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Originally Posted By vellnueve: Any chance the new models make it out before 7/1? The 606 is dropping mid May 605 is un determined as of yet T48 is supposed to be the end of May |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
|
Originally Posted By M41A: How are the 607s selling? I still want one but wasn't sure if I need to hurry if production stops on them. They are selling well enough that we are going to do another production run. |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
|
Originally Posted By mike_nds: They are selling well enough that we are going to do another production run. How are the A2 Carbines selling? I got one of the last 601’s Brownells had just a few weeks before they were discontinued. Didn’t know I cut it that close with them, and not looking to miss out on these. |
Mike, I just showed my H&R XM16E1 to a disabled buddy of mine that served in Vietnam. He waxed nostalgic for a couple of minutes after I handed it to him. He was rubbing it like a long-lost woman. He is talking about buying one now. He liked the XM177E2 as well, but he said that the only one he ever saw was carried by a OH-6 pilot. Thanks!
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“America is a whorehouse where the revolutionary ideals of your forefathers are corrupted and sold in alleys by vendors of capitalism.”
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Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: How are the A2 Carbines selling? I got one of the last 601’s Brownells had just a few weeks before they were discontinued. Didn’t know I cut it that close with them, and not looking to miss out on these. The Govt carbines don’t sent the world on fire, but I have no plans to discontinue them |
We are living in a Tom Clancy novel
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
Over 50 and reputed to be a formidable brigand
https://hr1871.com/
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Originally Posted By NoDakWolfPack: Did the Marines push the M4 carbine? Or just the M16A2? |
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Originally Posted By mlin: Nope. Marines was one of the last adopted M4/M4A1. Colt was awarded a contract in 1985 to design new general-purpose carbine that was in the same role as M1 carbine mainly for those whose functions don't need to carry 20" M16 rifle. The contract also specific parts commonality with the newly adopted M16A2. XM4 and M4 was never intend to replace M16A2/A3/A4. But the usage of M4A1 by SOCOM proofed M4A1 was effective for service-wide general issuance. When Army first adopted M4/M4A1 fore general issuance, Marines was sticked with A4 for a long while. Thanks for the info! That makes sense. The Marines still issue the A4 to anyone E-5 and below in supporting units |