Looks like I’m never buying from BCM again (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 7/13/2024 11:24:33 PM EDT
[Last Edit: bullet-cooker][Edited]
I guess BCM is giving into lawyers if you try and check out, you have to agree to a ton of different legal waivers before you can proceed to checkout grow some balls. I know the left is coming after us with lawsuits, but you will continue to lose business this way.
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We live in a sue happy society. You should be upset at the judges that allow those suits to hit trial, not the gun companies that are forced to take action to protect themselves. As someone who had been involved in frivolous lawsuits, I understand why they're doing it. Even if they win, the process is the punishment, look at ADCO and the recent case he won, but still had to pay out the ass in legal fees. The 18 checkbox is a requirement now that you'll see on all firearm sites. Generally companies will have the same small print rolled into one checkbox instead of six. But is clicking 6 boxes really that large of an inconvenience? That's what, 2 seconds of your time? I have too many real problems in my life to get worked up over something like that. |
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Originally Posted By rob78: Much do about nothing OP. I don't see the issue here. I don’t see the issue , that’s exactly the same as saying “I don’t break any laws, so why do I care if people are listening to my phone calls” It’s a matter of principle, I understand we live in a Sue happy society, but we have a lot of power and we need to stand up to these people. We should never capitulate to the mob. |
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Originally Posted By Msokol13: Don’t… I’m sure they don’t want your business if you’re going to complain about something that is designed to protect their business. Yeah I spent my money elsewhere they’re the only ones pulling this crap.. I’m surprised of the level of sheep in this community.. |
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Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: Yeah I spent my money elsewhere they’re the only ones pulling this crap.. I’m surprised of the level of sheep in this community.. Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: Originally Posted By Msokol13: Don’t… I’m sure they don’t want your business if you’re going to complain about something that is designed to protect their business. Yeah I spent my money elsewhere they’re the only ones pulling this crap.. I’m surprised of the level of sheep in this community.. The federal government is itching to sue firearms manufacturers. They have done so and will do so again. I'd have a problem if they were sharing my purchase information with the .gov. I'd have a problem if they were self-reporting firearms sales beyond what is required by law. The checklist you provided appears to me to be just a company trying to protect itself from a business-ending lawsuit. |
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Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: Yeah I spent my money elsewhere they’re the only ones pulling this crap.. I’m surprised of the level of sheep in this community.. Soon it will be every firearms seller. Lawfare is being waged and OP is clueless about it apparently. Soon the only place OP will be able to buy guns is out of the trunk of some fudds car. At least he'll still have his principles though, I guess. 
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Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: “First they came for the Socialists, then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me” Surely you’re referring to all the sheep that just said “move to a free state you idiot - it’s NY!” Now that it’s reached you, you’re a patriot for refusing to check BCM’s boxes? Eta: just saw that this isn’t in GD. I’m pretty sure this is not the place to debate this one. |
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y’all are all missing the point . As a community we need to get our shit together and start fighting back against these who keep infringing our rights and systematically inch by inch restrict our ability to exercise a constitutional right. It’s less egregious than Liberty Safes putting in a back door to all their safes for the feds, and handing over customer information willfully for any request, but it’s essentially the same thing, just an up front approval by the customer vs behind the customers backs only for them to find out later in the most publicly damning way possible… BCM is preemptively trying to avoid the negative exposure that legacy media pins on admittedly innocent gun manufacturers (ahem Daniel Defense) when one of their CIA/MK Ultra mind slaves decides to do a false flag and everyone but the perpetrators are scapegoated.. This is the last I’m gonna say on the subject, if you don’t like it so be it ,I’m not going to support companies that give the mob . |
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I find it odd that folks are buying kit from retail outlets anyway. There’s a sea of AR stuff that can be bought from your fellow arfbros. No wavers, no taxes, no record. I honestly don’t think I’ve bought anything outside of ammo and glass from a retail joint in years. |
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Originally Posted By Msokol13: Don't I'm sure they don't want your business if you're going to complain about something that is designed to protect their business. |
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Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: I guess BCM is giving into lawyers if you try and check out, you have to agree to a ton of different legal waivers before you can proceed to checkout grow some balls. I know the left is coming after us with lawsuits, but you will continue to lose business this way. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53855529425_9f474ba4e1_k.jpg  So, what's the issue?You're a big boy, don't buy their products if you're upset by this. |
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Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: I guess BCM is giving into lawyers if you try and check out, you have to agree to a ton of different legal waivers before you can proceed to checkout grow some balls. I know the left is coming after us with lawsuits, but you will continue to lose business this way. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/53855529425_9f474ba4e1_k.jpg Serious? Give BCM a break. None of those questions should apply to us anyway. It’s like having to say yes to Apple’s terms and conditions when you download iTunes or update iOS. No one is sewing your lips to a human centipede. |
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Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: I don’t see the issue , that’s exactly the same as saying “I don’t break any laws, so why do I care if people are listening to my phone calls” It’s a matter of principle, I understand we live in a Sue happy society, but we have a lot of power and we need to stand up to these people. We should never capitulate to the mob. Agree, so how do we go about doing this? Will 10-20 million Americans march on Capitol Hill and demand Congress change federal and state laws to prevent this? I don’t see that happening. Until then, you have to pay the NRA and GOA for damage control and a few legislative victories here and there. |
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Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: Yeah I spent my money elsewhere they’re the only ones pulling this crap.. I’m surprised of the level of sheep in this community.. Originally Posted By bullet-cooker: Originally Posted By Msokol13: Don’t… I’m sure they don’t want your business if you’re going to complain about something that is designed to protect their business. Yeah I spent my money elsewhere they’re the only ones pulling this crap.. I’m surprised of the level of sheep in this community.. Its getting pretty bad here. Its quite sad. |
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Customer interactions are ~80/20 20% give you 80% of issues. What a clown, spends more time bitching into the www vacuum than getting on with getting on. A petty lawsuit from some random municipality, state, regulator, ngo, etc. can ruin a small biz and drives prices up for all. IMO be a man, check the boxes, and don't give the parasitic lawyers a vector to attack. As a biz I'd be happy to not have him |
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Originally Posted By Uberwaffen: Customer interactions are ~80/20 20% give you 80% of issues. What a clown, spends more time bitching into the www vacuum than getting on with getting on. A petty lawsuit from some random municipality, state, regulator, ngo, etc. can ruin a small biz and drives prices up for all. IMO be a man, check the boxes, and don't give the parasitic lawyers a vector to attack. As a biz I'd be happy to not have him IMO you missed the entire point. “No man escapes When freedom fails, The best men rot in filthy jails; And they who cried: “Appease, Appease!” Are hanged by men they tried to please.” ~ Hiram Mann |
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Would you please be good enough to explain it in your own words? On face value, it looks like a company is protecting itself from lawsuits (similar to what Rainier Arms, ADCO and others) have faced. Your response from what I can tell, seems to be that of claiming tyranny and persecution. I am not putting words in the mouth of anyone here, just looking for a honest discussion. I don't see how any company would willingly cut off a large volumes worth of sales unless there was good reason, and that reason is what I noted above. These bogus lawsuits cost MILLIONS for company owners, and since the courts are allowing persons to sue firearm manufacturers for the actions of criminals, I would like to know your answer as to how you think a company should carry on. Thanks, Stick |
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Originally Posted By RodMI: Buy from a retailer they don't require it. I really think that is the easiest answer. I hate to steer anyone away from buying direct from BCM, but the path of least resistance is sometimes the easiest route. Local suppliers also have different guidelines. |
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yeah.... I don't see your point. You want to buy quality goods from a reputable vendor, but don't want to help immunize them from the current vein of nonsense lawfare multi-faceted attack vectors? If a couple extra clicks is too painful, the forms at an FFL must really get your panties twisted. meh |
I stopped buying them after shit accuracy in their SS410 match barrel that they refused to acknowledge. Oh, and their pot metal charging handle…  BCM is nothing more than a middle man company rebranding and reselling stuff someone else manufactured. Back in the day, they were one of a handful of options…nowadays? Far too many companies actually manufacture their own better components for same price. |
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Originally Posted By Lancelot: Did you contact them and express your concerns? If so, what was their response? He did with this thread. It looks like BCM has not responded yet. For the record, I like BCM more than any other AR brand. I don't think I will end a ~20-year rapport with BCM just yet, but I do not blame OP for being put off by the additional requirements BCM has put into place that are not required by law. I will avoid buying directly from BCM. To those saying that it only takes a couple of seconds, you're missing OP's point. It's not a matter of time and effort, but of principle. To those comparing it to the 4473, you fail to see the difference being legal/regulatory requirements and hoops that are not required. The 4473 is a federal requirement, whereas the BCM hoops are self-imposed (i.e.: BCM is not required to do that). As stickman explained, I understand why BCM does it (although I don't think it will do much for them in court). However, I also see why OP is annoyed by it. If more people took a stand, many businesses would change their stance on self-imposed enforcements be it this, ID scans at liquor stores, fingerprints for gym memberships, or whatever silly stuff. |
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Originally Posted By abnk: He did with this thread. It looks like BCM has not responded yet. For the record, I like BCM more than any other AR brand. I don't think I will end a ~20-year rapport with BCM just yet, but I do not blame OP for being put off by the additional requirements BCM has put into place that are not required by law. I will avoid buying directly from BCM. To those saying that it only takes a couple of seconds, you're missing OP's point. It's not a matter of time and effort, but of principle. To those comparing it to the 4473, you fail to see the difference being legal/regulatory requirements and hoops that are not required. The 4473 is a federal requirement, whereas the BCM hoops are self-imposed (i.e.: BCM is not required to do that). As stickman explained, I understand why BCM does it (although I don't think it will do much for them in court). However, I also see why OP is annoyed by it. If more people took a stand, many businesses would change their stance on self-imposed enforcements be it this, ID scans at liquor stores, fingerprints for gym memberships, or whatever silly stuff. I value your opinion, though I am swayed by your avatar pic! From the sound of things, you haven't been to court much, which is a good thing. However, there is a reason why every major MFG and dealer has something similar in place in varying degrees. Regarding BCM coming here to respond, it would be like asking if you stopped beating your wife. No matter what answer you gave it wouldn't be something that would make people happy. I try to step in an answer what I can, and where I can. My opinions are my own, supplied from being part of the industry. People might not like what I have to say, but they can be assured I am giving them the truth as it is known to me. Regarding the warnings amd questions, are they stupid? Yes, they certainly are. Maybe if this country regains some level of sanity we can return to a better time. |
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Originally Posted By thedownzero: I stopped buying them after shit accuracy in their SS410 match barrel that they refused to acknowledge. Oh, and their pot metal charging handle… https://i.imgur.com/fwP4fze.jpeg https://i.imgur.com/jkv9HEW.jpeg BCM is nothing more than a middle man company rebranding and reselling stuff someone else manufactured. Back in the day, they were one of a handful of options…nowadays? Far too many companies actually manufacture their own better components for same price. That’s clearly bent to the point of breaking. How does that happen in any kind of normal operation? |
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Originally Posted By -OdieGreen-: That’s clearly bent to the point of breaking. How does that happen in any kind of normal operation? Yeah, it doesn’t. I’ve been using those charging handles since they first came out, and I’ve never seen or heard of one braking that way. Something stinks, and while anything is possible, that just doesn’t seem right. Regarding the barrels not shooting…. It’s funny that Molon found them to shoot fine, and I have as well. I did testing with Rainer Arms returned barrels which had been returned by people as being not accurate. Each of the barrels shot under one MOA with off the shelf black hills ammo. |