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Posted: 9/12/2026 6:59:37 PM EDT
[Last Edit: PieterCoetzee][Edited]
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So are LWRC, LMT, Knights, Daniel Defence etc worth the xtra money? Today its not hard to find a $500 AR and better grade guns for $1000-1500. Im not sure I see the virtue or better parts for the $3000 guns. Im saying this as a pure gun snob and having owned a Knights and a LWRC. They were both good guns; but like a Rolex, they were hard to tell the difference from the Seiko guns (except for the crown on the dial). Clearly the big name guns command a higher resale value Just looking for your thoughts. Would you feel poorly armed, if in a crisis, you were handed a PSA AR instead of a LWRC to defend yourself? |
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Originally Posted By zoe17: Any gun is better than no gun. Take what you can afford and get good with it. MY thoughts exactly and again Im an admitted gun snob. I sometimes wonder how Knights and LMT and LWRC survive with the end of GWOT and the reduction in government contracts. |
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You can home build and achieve the same quality for much lower cost, but your budget-tier brands will never be physically equal to the expensive boutique brands. What’s worth what is up to the consumer. I like to build my own because I know exactly which parts go into it, and how well it was assembled. Barrel and BCG are your most important components. Choose wisely and ensure it’s all assembled correctly, or pay someone to have handled all that for you. |
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Originally Posted By Mike_Golf: I'm not sure why you're even asking this question if you owned an LWRC. Because I bought it like I bought my Rolex, which BTW doenst keep time as good as a Seiko; but its a Rolex and I keep telling myself that and anyone else that notices it. For GoToWar purposes Im not sure the LWRC is any better (for me) than a PSA, and I can buy a lot of ammo with the difference. If I have a Corvette, then I can be happy with a backup Mustang |
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I wouldn’t feel under armed with a PSA after I QC it and reliability tested it myself. Higher end guns usually have better longevity, retain accuracy for longer, better fit/finish and better QC. I have a bunch of PSAs. They have been good after I went through them. I still prefer my higher end guns. Can’t speak on PSA Sabre though but I have heard good things. |
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Originally Posted By moreammoplz: I just bought an LWRC and it is stupid accurate and smooth shooting. I picked mine up pre owned and got a good deal. I would pay new prices. Same. Love my ldubs, but I’m not sure I couldn’t generate the same reliability and accuracy from a PSA |
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For myself, I decided no. I was an LMT snob, but no more. I can build a better shooting gun without being locked into their proprietary barrel and upper parts for half (or less than half) the cost using a Centurion barrel, G rail. Plus, I was noticing LMT QC was starting to be all over the place. Back in 2020 I picked up two of those $79 Remington Defense M4A1 barrels CDNN was blowing out. Turned out they were CHF and very accurate. Built 2 M4A1's that shot lights out for probably a quarter of an LMT and finally ditched my last LMT upper. |
| The AR is a gun plumbers gun. I’m sure you noticed that no one needs a gunsmith to work on one. I have mostly Colt rifles and a couple of good parts guns. I do not see any benefit in buying the Gucci brands for the prices they sell for. |
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Talking to a buddy today and this topic came up. He made the point that many of the Gucci guns use proprietary parts, meaning that they may be good, even great until you need a replacement. Seems to me that even the best guns break down and when they do I want a quick fix not waiting for a Gucci part from a company that may go out of business. Im reminded of Rolex's first and only battery watch. By all accounts it was a great watch, except the the battery they chose went out of production soon after the watch was released for sale. Of all the Gucci guns that were made in large numbers for contracts during early GWOT, what kind of numbers are being made today since the government tit has dried up? |
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Originally Posted By PieterCoetzee: Of all the Gucci guns that were made in large numbers for contracts during early GWOT, what kind of numbers are being made today since the government tit has dried up? Mostly the government contracts some pretty mundane ARs, so if you're talking AR-family guns then the HK416 and just a limited amount of KAC guns (like for USSS and maybe a few JSOC operators) would be the most exotic/Gucci the federal government ever gets. HK still offers parts for the older 416 (if you can find/buy them) or there's compatible clone parts out there now, and I believe the KAC proprietary parts are likewise available, and certainly newer generations of both are still in production. Centurion offers some KAC-clone parts (E3 bolts) now that some of the KAC patents have expired. For "Gucci" parts used on standard ARs like DD rails (since we are in their subforum lol) they'll still support whatever random forend part(s) you might need for an older issued rail, and if for whatever unlikely reason they completely dried up, you could still replace the entire assembly with another compatibile product so the standardized AR stuff is extremely ubiquitous for both parts and accessories. Did that answer your question, or are you looking at other less common stuff such as lowers with fancy ambidextrous controls? Idk if any of those were actually bought by the U.S. government (with the exception of KAC's) but they certainly have been offered on the open market. Availability for those specific proprietary parts is going to be very manufacturer-dependant, but fortunately the well-designed stuff rarely fails. Sadly, what's become fairly difficult to find would be standard MILSPEC chrome lined barrels, which used to be commonly offered at very reasonable prices. Daniel Defense does still manufacture these, but many manufacturers don't even offer chrome lining anymore (in favor of nitride/Melonite/QPQ) which is a shame. |
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Originally Posted By KitBuilder: Did that answer your question My point is that I expect a AR based weapon to be able to be used in "combat" (whatever that means, riot to zombie apocalypse) however unlikely that may be BUT it also means I want to be able to fix/swop parts with any other AR that turns up in the fray. Yep I get that the better ARs are well, BETTER; but I question if they are that much better and worth giving up interchangeability of parts. That being said I do see the virtue of specialized guns for precision and maybe even for breaching that dont demand complete interchangeability. |
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Originally Posted By PieterCoetzee: My point is that I expect a AR based weapon to be able to be used in "combat" (whatever that means, riot to zombie apocalypse) however unlikely that may be BUT it also means I want to be able to fix/swop parts with any other AR that turns up in the fray. Originally Posted By PieterCoetzee: My point is that I expect a AR based weapon to be able to be used in "combat" (whatever that means, riot to zombie apocalypse) however unlikely that may be BUT it also means I want to be able to fix/swop parts with any other AR that turns up in the fray. *(This should not be confused with awesome MIM parts such as Geissele triggers.) Yep I get that the better ARs are well, BETTER; but I question if they are that much better and worth giving up interchangeability of parts. That said, it’s still pretty easy to “get both” so you could, for example, still use a KAC E3 carbine and even without any proprietary KAC spare parts, you can still swap a whole USGI BCG into your upper if you get a BCG part failure (but you’ll need to swap the entire BCG assembly due to proprietary parts inside the KAC BCG which includes the tapered bolt). Now regarding the gas system… It is also proprietary, but you could swap out the whole upper assembly if unable to repair anything forward of the upper receiver. Additionally it’s not recommended to run the standard bolt (BCG) with the E3 barrel assembly indefinitely. Right about now you may be thinking, “Hey KB, that’s nuts. I cannot deal with this level of parts incompatibility in my SHTF carbine! The gas system smoothness and a bolt that’s likely to never die just aren’t worth the trade-off into so many proprietary parts.” So here’s where Centurion’s products come into play. They offer their T3 bolt (which performs like a KAC E3 bolt) so you can use that with one of their chrome lined barrels with a T-marked barrel extension, assemble the barrel assembly with standard MILSPEC gas system parts (or Midlength, if you want to get crazy) and now your AR bolt is still fully compatible with all USGI parts. You don’t even have to swap the rest of the BCG out in order to run a standard USGI bolt. The benefit of their tapered T4 bolt assembly is the built-in longevity like Knight’s, but they designed it to use otherwise standard bolt parts. This is a less expensive build than buying a KAC carbine/upper as well. Do I have one? No. I’ve never even worn out a standard USGI style bolt, and in my 5-year gunsmithing career I’ve only replaced two. One was necessary because it really was worn out and starting to crack a lug. The other was probably fine, but the customer wanted it replaced. If you want a piston AR (which you don’t need) then I’d look at the Caracal 816 A2 because it was designed for high parts commonality with standard ARs, and almost everything on it that isn’t standard is compatible with the SIG 516 (which is fairly common, as far as piston ARs go). Obviously if you’re going to be somewhere you might encounter a bunch of HK416 carbines or parts, you could consider one of those (or their clones). But the 416 is heavier than the 816, and weight is one of the negatives of going with a piston AR. The 816 is not offered in the U.S. with a chrome lined barrel (which, again, is something I find disappointing about the current AR market). That being said I do see the virtue of specialized guns for precision and maybe even for breaching that dont demand complete interchangeability. The great thing about AR parts is that it’s easy to find good ones, and you can build or buy something completely interchangeable with MILSPEC parts while having an excellent weapon for all your zombie apocalypse and SHTF needs. |