Daniel Defense 9mm PCC (Page 1 of 2)
Posted: 1/23/2024 4:59:03 PM EDT
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Now this was unexpected: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FBnhQH3jG4s&ab_channel=TFBTVShowTime |
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I think it's interesting how they're getting flak for having it be direct blowback, but the new Taran Tactical PCC and a lot of PCC shooters use direct blowback. My understanding is that direct blowback may have more total recoil but it's direction or something is better than delayed blowback. Can anybody comment or elaborate on that? I have an MPX and love it but kinda want to get a direct blowback for comparison. I like how the DD PCC seems slimmer than the MPX. The MPX does seem bulkier than it needs to be. |
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Originally Posted By Switchback_Arms: I think it's interesting how they're getting flak for having it be direct blowback, but the new Taran Tactical PCC and a lot of PCC shooters use direct blowback. My understanding is that direct blowback may have more total recoil but it's direction or something is better than delayed blowback. Can anybody comment or elaborate on that? I have an MPX and love it but kinda want to get a direct blowback for comparison. I like how the DD PCC seems slimmer than the MPX. The MPX does seem bulkier than it needs to be. It’s 9 mm. Is a MP5 smoother? Yes, but a B&T APC 9 is hard to beat IMHO. Let’s pass judgment on how Daniel Defense set theirs up once we get trigger time and try it suppressed. Today’s blow backs are not Colt 9 mm ARs. CZ scorpion, B&T APC, are much better firearms. |
| It will be interesting to see what the actual street price on these settles out at. I recently purchased a Warscorp9 SBR and was pleasantly surprised at the fit and finished. The ergonomics are great, and the reliability has been 100%. It also uses the Scorpion magazines. DD is really going to have to bring it because they have a severe amount of competition in this market. |
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Originally Posted By skullzer02: 1/5/2025 and still no inventory on these dd pcc and website looks like it was a passing thought! PCCs are definitely shipping to wholesalers and dealers. The website will be updated once we have fulfilled our commitment to our dealers who've had them on order since this time last year. |
Joe Marler
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Joined:
Jun 2022
Posts:
59
EE: 100% (30)
NV, USA
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Originally Posted By skullzer02: so site says scorpion mags , can it use the new ones or just the old ones from magpul? also can it use the original mags from cz as well? All of our PCCs will come with the current gen Magpul Scorpion Mag but they are fully compatible and reliable with CZ mags as well. |
Joe Marler
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
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Originally Posted By skullzer02: seems Gun broker is only one, who has only 2 ever made. Originally Posted By skullzer02: seems Gun broker is only one, who has only 2 ever made. I literally have no idea what you were trying to say here. wonder what are the issues with this gun? bad ejectors? bolt issues? upper and lower fitting issues? Feeding issues? Have you heard about any issues or is this just complete speculation? |
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Originally Posted By skullzer02: seems Gun broker is only one, who has only 2 ever made. wonder what are the issues with this gun? bad ejectors? bolt issues? upper and lower fitting issues? Feeding issues? Quite a few dealers have them available on GB as of this morning. Both 16" and Pistol variants. No issues to speak of. |
Joe Marler
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
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Originally Posted By Bret: I literally have no idea what you were trying to say here.---I saw no inventory at dealers websites so I thought they only made a few of them-sacrcasim Have you heard about any issues or is this just complete speculation?--- I asked these questions cause its been over a year on this gun and was wondering if they brought it out and then pulled the inventory from dealers because of issues? |
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Originally Posted By skullzer02: just looking at some of the dealers who have no inventory, and the price is up there almost 2k and same with gun rip off broker Our introduction of the PCC was a soft launch. They are in full production and we've been shipping since last month. They will be available at more and more dealers in the coming weeks. MSRP is 1949 for all SKUs. |
Joe Marler
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
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Our website has been updated with more info. DD PCCs |
Joe Marler
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
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Originally Posted By Marler5811: SBR - 6.1 lbs RIFLE - 7.05 lbs PISTOL - 5.9 lbs Originally Posted By Marler5811: Originally Posted By RandomFellow: I can't seem to find the weights listed for the rifle or pistol. Anybody have any info? SBR - 6.1 lbs RIFLE - 7.05 lbs PISTOL - 5.9 lbs Wow. A 9mm PCC that’s a half pound more than the DDM4V7p in 5.56 and 300 BLK?!? |
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Originally Posted By SnidelyWhiplash: Wow. A 9mm PCC that’s a half pound more than the DDM4V7p in 5.56 and 300 BLK?!? 9 mm > 5.56 and .300 black out in terms of bore diameter. The PCC has a hydraulic buffer and is a blowback design. The bolt and bolt carrier will have greater mass than a 5.56/300 blackout bolt and bolt carrier. Hence, the 1/2 lb difference between 16” variants. To the DD rep: could you clarify something for us? Is the barrel the normal 4150 chrome lined CHF material or are you using stainless steel? See the pic from the website: Attached File If it is a stainless barrel, why? |
Elite Soviet Democrat
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Cold Hammer Forged Barrels Stainless Steel Why not chrome lined 4150 like your AR15 barrels? |
For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood from His workmanship, so that men are without excuse.
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Originally Posted By themao: 9 mm > 5.56 and .300 black out in terms of bore diameter. The PCC has a hydraulic buffer and is a blowback design. The bolt and bolt carrier will have greater mass than a 5.56/300 blackout bolt and bolt carrier. Hence, the 1/2 lb difference between 16” variants. To the DD rep: could you clarify something for us? Is the barrel the normal 4150 chrome lined CHF material or are you using stainless steel? See the pic from the website: https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/10504/IMG_1056_jpeg-3434629.JPG If it is a stainless barrel, why? It is stainless. We chose to use stainless steel for all pistol caliber firearms. Both H9 and PCC. Same material is being used for both platforms. |
Joe Marler
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
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Originally Posted By themao: Also, is the charging handle proprietary or is it a standard AR charging handle? Can we use Geissele or Radian Raptor charging handles? It is a proprietary design and will not accept standard AR15 charging handles. I'm not sure if there are aftermarket options that are compatible but I'll find out. |
Joe Marler
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
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Thanks for the reply Joe. We appreciate it. What is the expected barrel life with the stainless steel CHF barrels? Obviously, that is a much different animal than nitrided CHF barrels B&T sells or the CHF barrels used on the HK SP5/MP5 being sold here stateside. I think a lot of us would have preferred chrome lined CHF barrels, because 9 mm gets quite dirty when shot in high volume or suppressed. I assumed we would clean these barrels with copper solvents (I use Slip 2000's copper solvent or KG products on my stainless steel barrels) over just CLP. For CLP, I use SLIP 2000 EWL on almost all of my guns since it eats through carbon like no other. I am interested in a 16" model for PCC matches, steel matches, etc. You guys picked a good magazine to use (CZ Scorpion PMAGs, 35 rounds), hence my interest. The other rifle that attracts my attention are the B&T SPC 9 16" and just a plain jane HK SP5L model. I have a SP5 SBR, APC 9 SBR, but crossing state lines for matches with a SBR can be a pain due to 5320.20 forms, etc. Thanks |
Elite Soviet Democrat
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Originally Posted By themao: 9 mm > 5.56 and .300 black out in terms of bore diameter. The PCC has a hydraulic buffer and is a blowback design. The bolt and bolt carrier will have greater mass than a 5.56/300 blackout bolt and bolt carrier. Hence, the 1/2 lb difference between 16” variants. This is interesting, and I appreciate your posting this. TheHumbleMarksman just posted a review on YouTube where he explains it similarly. My post was perhaps a touch too snarky towards DD and the weight, but I’m surprised that CMMG can produce a similar PCC (Banshee) weighing markedly less (5.9 lbs DD PCC vs CMMG Banshee at 4.7 lbs). |
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Originally Posted By SnidelyWhiplash: This is interesting, and I appreciate your posting this. TheHumbleMarksman just posted a review on YouTube where he explains it similarly. My post was perhaps a touch too snarky towards DD and the weight, but I’m surprised that CMMG can produce a similar PCC (Banshee) weighing markedly less (5.9 lbs DD PCC vs CMMG Banshee at 4.7 lbs). The Banshee is a cool little gun for sure. Their 8" PCC Pistol is marketed at 5.2 lbs but there are some notable differences in our platform vs theirs. From what I can find, the Banshee uses a Carbine buffer. CMMGs website doesn't specify the weight, but assuming it's an H1, it should be about 3.8 ounces. The DD PCC uses a hydraulic buffer with a weight of 6 ounces. Our carrier also features a carrier buffer similar to that found in our DD5 platforms. This certainly adds a tad bit of weight, but it is mechanical mass that is beneficial for reliable operation. S/F Joe |
Joe Marler
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
Daniel Defense
Law Enforcement Sales Manager
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Originally Posted By SnidelyWhiplash: This is interesting, and I appreciate your posting this. TheHumbleMarksman just posted a review on YouTube where he explains it similarly. My post was perhaps a touch too snarky towards DD and the weight, but I’m surprised that CMMG can produce a similar PCC (Banshee) weighing markedly less (5.9 lbs DD PCC vs CMMG Banshee at 4.7 lbs). Originally Posted By SnidelyWhiplash: This is interesting, and I appreciate your posting this. TheHumbleMarksman just posted a review on YouTube where he explains it similarly. My post was perhaps a touch too snarky towards DD and the weight, but I’m surprised that CMMG can produce a similar PCC (Banshee) weighing markedly less (5.9 lbs DD PCC vs CMMG Banshee at 4.7 lbs). All CMMG did was take an AR-15's bolt, make it rotate a little more and call it "radial delayed". It's really just a rotating bolt acting as the delay. If you dig into their website, you will find this: However, if you decide to run the Radial Delayed Blowback system suppressed, or want to use hotter than average loads, we also offer our Action Tuning Kit which is a series of weights that you can add to the carrier to tune your system to run optimally for your specific setup. If you watch their video, they are using the rotation of the bolt as the "delay" mechanism. Of course, it is not a normal AR-15 bolt, but by no means is it anything close to that of a HK MP5 or HK G3 world famous roller-delayed blowback operating system. Same goes for the Stribog. It is not the same as HK's roller delayed system. If your suppressor is a traditional baffled can with higher back pressure, you will have to play with buffer weights on the CMMG Banshee just like on a Colt 9 mm SMG pattern gun. I have a 2017 model CMMG Mk9T (which is their clone of the Colt 9 mm SMG). It spits gas in your face like no tomorrow without a heavier buffer (I tuned mine and it works great now). However, the new B&T APC 9 with a hydraulic buffer, along with their own bolt design, does not have those issues. A traditional blow back design in the guise of the IMI Uzi, HK UMP 9/45 or the newer B&T APC 9 series will always be more durable and require less maintenance than any roller-delayed system. The bolt carriers on the Uzi and UMP are designed to run tens of thousands of rounds. Maybe only small parts might need replacement over time (extractor springs etc). On the MP5, expect to change the old style extractor springs every 5000-10,000 rounds depending upon if you run suppressed or full auto. Bolt gap after a period of time can be an issue, as the rollers can wear. That is an issue for large agencies and militaries over time. The less maintenance for those organizations, the better for them. Hence, that's another reason why HK introduced the UMP 9 (less maintenance, potentially lower cost). Never replaced the MP5 though. Having said, the MP5 is still the gold standard. I love my SP5 (HK civilian MP5), B&T APC 9 and UMP 45 (HK USC conversion). They are all great guns to shoot. A pure blow back system like the APC 9 with a hydraulic buffer is a hell of a gun, and it runs great suppressed. Very reliable. I honestly can't tell much of a performance difference if I take one platform or the other and shoot steel matches or USPSA PCC stuff. It comes down to the idiot behind the gun  Let's see how the Daniel Defense performs. They are trying to give us a traditional blow back operating system with a Scorpion magazine (mind you, the CZ Scorpion is also a traditional blow back design), along with the benefits of an AR buffer tube style hydraulic buffer, AR pattern controls and an AR trigger group. I'm sure I'll get my hands on one to try in the next 6 months to see what it is like. I really wish they would have come with a CHF CL barrel though, which is really the selling point of any DD rifle minus their Mk12 SPR rifles. To the DD rep: I would like to know if I can install a Geissele SSA trigger in your PCC 9 mm carbine. Thanks |
Elite Soviet Democrat
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Just picked up the pistol, going to the range soon to shoot. Currently I plan to just run it unsuppressed, while I have an Obsidian and could three lug it, I want to look into a short, fat and light QD can I can use for 9mm and .300 SUPERS with a QD feature and flash hider, no brake. Only have Speer Lawman which is fairly warm, will try others soon. I had a PA 1x prism loose, so that's on it. Two things-someone at DD forgot to tighten the FH, I took care of that and has SB changed to mold? the brace has a ton of wobble and the body appears really thin. One question for JM--I see the extractor has a coil pin, no mention of removal for cleaning, any procedure reference that? Regards Mark |
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Originally Posted By mark5pt56: Just picked up the pistol, going to the range soon to shoot. Currently I plan to just run it unsuppressed, while I have an Obsidian and could three lug it, I want to look into a short, fat and light QD can I can use for 9mm and .300 SUPERS with a QD feature and flash hider, no brake. Only have Speer Lawman which is fairly warm, will try others soon. I had a PA 1x prism loose, so that's on it. Two things-someone at DD forgot to tighten the FH, I took care of that and has SB changed to mold? the brace has a ton of wobble and the body appears really thin. One question for JM--I see the extractor has a coil pin, no mention of removal for cleaning, any procedure reference that? Regards Mark Mark, mind posting pics of your bolt and bolt carrier disassembled? If you need help, IM me. Thanks |
Elite Soviet Democrat
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Indoors, 100 rounds, zero malfunctions, Speer Lawmen 115. Nice strong ejection, 45 degree angle up and 2:30-3:00. Zero at 25 yards, 3 five round groups to tweak, top left is 2, saw it was high, went down. Very happy with it, accurate! Oh-1x PA prism. Pics of the firing pin, firing pin spring and retainer. Fixed ejector, coil pin retention. Charge Handle has pin inserted. Not many moving parts and I'm certain spares will be made available. I wonder if DD has data in regards to round count on parts to failure and/or recommended change intervals.    
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Thanks for the pics Mark. Definitely some differences from a Colt pattern 9 mm SMG but not a lot. I don’t understand why they didn’t design the bolt carrier to work with a standard AR charging handle. That pin can come loose with use for sure (thousands of rounds though I’d imagine). Let us know when you suppress it |
Elite Soviet Democrat